[Deck] Dredge

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Originally Posted by SHABOOGS

Congrats on another win, Que! Can you share your sideboard plan against Lands? Is it just Ashen Rider? Sad to say that I haven't won an official match against it.

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Thanks brotha.

And against Lands I'm trying to straight up combo them and land an Iona on Green to cut them off of Loam. Its not game over necessarily, but its very strong and you're usually putting a bunch of zombies into play alongside a 7/7 so they shouldn't have any time to actually answer that. Other times you're dread returning Ashen Rider to ensure your zombies are able to come across stopping dumb lands like Tabernacle, Maze of ith, and Glacial Chasm. Side note even stops Bojuka bog if they were foolish enough to drop it early to eat your graveyard while you were sandbagging additional gas. Its important that you can exile it because once they start recurring Bog its clearly over. The plan:

+ 2 Lotus Petal
+ 1 Dread Return
+ 1 Iona,
+ 1 Ashen Rider
+ 1 Breakthrough

- 1 City of Brass
- 2 Amalgam
- 1 Street Wraith
- 1 Careful Study
- 1 Cabal Therapy (you're only going to be naming 1 card primarily with it and your opponent will use it the first chance they get anyway so this is fine, all others will be used to generate zombies to ensure you're still able to apply pressure if you don't happen to land a Dread Return)

In Game:
If you happen to be fortunate enough to have a Narco and a Cabal Therapy early against them then Cabal Therapy would name in this order Crop Rotation, Exploration, Gamble. You can't play around Crop Rotation and it almost always grabs Bog which can be a huge blowout if they time it right. Exploration allows them to pull to fair ahead with the loam engine. Gamble can find them Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle, Bog, and loam obviously. Remember also you can stack the Tabernacle trigger so that you can have Ichorid enter the battlefield without paying the 1. This will allow you to push through damage and even close out games if you have multiple unanswered Ichorids. You're just trying to overwhelm them ultimately.

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Originally Posted by Que

Remember also you can stack the Tabernacle trigger so that you can have Ichorid enter the battlefield without paying the 1. This will allow you to push through damage and even close out games if you have multiple unanswered Ichorids. You're just trying to overwhelm them ultimately.

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Just now realizing how good Flame-Kin Zealot is against Tabernac.

I'm an amateur.

Thanks, Que. I'll keep that in mind the next time I play against Lands.

@Ronald. Be mindful they can still have Glacial Chasm which this deck can only beat via Ashen Rider. And Also if they can't keep recurring it/pay for the cumulative upkeep which is rare xD

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Originally Posted by SHABOOGS

Thanks, Que. I'll keep that in mind the next time I play against Lands.

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No worries. I still consider this a bad matchup, but I have found windows to beat that deck if they don't assemble the right pieces in time. Which is why to me its important that you try to combo them out as soon as you can while being cognizant of the fact that you can't really play around Crop Rotation.

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Originally Posted by Que

@Ronald. Be mindful they can still have Glacial Chasm which this deck can only beat via Ashen Rider. And Also if they can't keep recurring it/pay for the cumulative upkeep which is rare xD

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Oh, definitely. I've learned the hard way to watch out for the Chasm.

Funny story I told in the Storm thread a while back: was playing against 12-Post and knew the opponent didn't have a Tabernacle. He played a Tropical Island and passed. I played rituals (incl. Rain of Filth) and Empty the Warrens for 16–18. He Rotated into Chasm, so I was thinking that would be game. He proceeded to bleed out without finding a follow-up while I was sitting there with a barrel of Goblins and no other permanents and couldn't attack.

That whole tournament was a carnival of bad plays and worse luck for everybody.

Played a GPT yesterday and went 3-2 finishing 12th out of 32 players. Both my losses were due to misplays involving Cabal Therapy. Probably rusty? Still wanted to share my match ups:

Rd1 1-2 loss vs BUG Leovold/TNN
Rd2 1-0 win vs Infect
Rd3 2-0 win vs Burn w/ DRS
Rd4 0-2 loss vs Mentor Miracles
Rd5 2-0 win vs Legend Miracles

Rd1 Game 3 opponent had a TNN, DRS, and EE while I had Narcomoebas and Zombies. I top decked LED and wanted him to pop his EE by attacking for lethal (which happened and made him tap out), then I flashbacked Faithless Looting to look for Therapy (which I found), then flashback Therapy to get more zombies and win the race against TNN (which I for the life of me forgot to do even though I was digging for it with Looting!). When I passed the turn my opponent immediately exiled Therapy with DRS and lost the race soon after.

Rd4 Game 1 against Mentor Miracles I got to go off and look at his hand which had no countermagic. I had the Flayer kill in my GY and I thought I had another Therapy to generate enough zombies for the second DR (Troll). I went for it and had Flayer in play but didn't have enough dudes for Troll because I didn't have another Therapy to trigger Undying and Bridge from Below. Got it StPed at EoT and lost the game against Monk tokens. Game 2 I had a turn 1 Therapy and I always named RIP but for some strange reason I named SDT and saw RIP in his hand. Got to draw and cast Serenity a few turns later but it got FoWed and died to Monk tokens again.

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Originally Posted by SHABOOGS

Played a GPT yesterday and went 3-2 finishing 12th out of 32 players. Both my losses were due to misplays involving Cabal Therapy. Probably rusty? Still wanted to share my match ups:

Rd1 1-2 loss vs BUG Leovold/TNN
Rd2 1-0 win vs Infect
Rd3 2-0 win vs Burn w/ DRS
Rd4 0-2 loss vs Mentor Miracles
Rd5 2-0 win vs Legend Miracles

Rd1 Game 3 opponent had a TNN, DRS, and EE while I had Narcomoebas and Zombies. I top decked LED and wanted him to pop his EE by attacking for lethal (which happened and made him tap out), then I flashbacked Faithless Looting to look for Therapy (which I found), then flashback Therapy to get more zombies and win the race against TNN (which I for the life of me forgot to do even though I was digging for it with Looting!). When I passed the turn my opponent immediately exiled Therapy with DRS and lost the race soon after.

Rd4 Game 1 against Mentor Miracles I got to go off and look at his hand which had no countermagic. I had the Flayer kill in my GY and I thought I had another Therapy to generate enough zombies for the second DR (Troll). I went for it and had Flayer in play but didn't have enough dudes for Troll because I didn't have another Therapy to trigger Undying and Bridge from Below. Got it StPed at EoT and lost the game against Monk tokens. Game 2 I had a turn 1 Therapy and I always named RIP but for some strange reason I named SDT and saw RIP in his hand. Got to draw and cast Serenity a few turns later but it got FoWed and died to Monk tokens again.

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Hey dude not a bad outing at all and it sounds like you knew how to approach the games you were in/knew what you needed to hit to take the game. If its just simply miscounting or forgetting stuff then at least you know its something within your own power to control. With tighter plays and some good flips its difficult for any deck to stop you on a given day. I've been having an ok time against BUG unless they have a couple of DRS backed up with disruption. otherwise its really easy to get far ahead against the deck. They potentially have a lot of dead cards like Abrupt Decay, Hymn, Liliana, to weaker cards like TNN (cause its slow), Leovold, Strix. etc. so they rely heavily on disruption and deathrite to steal games.

Thanks, Que. In hindsight, I also laid out my GY in front of my opponent (probably to show off? lol) during that tournament instead of usually having it in one stacked pile and grabbing it everytime I plan my next move. That might be why I missed those Therapies that day. Just another lesson learned haha.

Hey everyone! So this Saturday myself and my other legacy cohorts will be doing a Legacy gauntlet stream. We will have quite a few decks to work with so hopefully will get to bring you some exciting matches. Of course I will be running Dredge for the most part, but we will have some rotations throughout the day. There is no official start time, however, most likely around 3 PM PST (6 EST). I will probably post once more before the event to provide a clearer time in the chance that we start to deviate too much from our original start time. We will be BBQing before hand and while not certain I believe my buddy whose hosting wanted to incorporate that into the stream somehow (including the audience). Will see. :)

I hope you see you all there and please share with anyone else that may be remotely interested in Legacy. Here is the link to his channel:

https://www.twitch.tv/railbirdgaming

You can also hit that follow button to get notified whenever we go live.

Thanks guys,

I took the Dredge to the local, went 4-1. My side had a total of 4 Serenity and I killed it, otherwise the normal suspects like Iona.
I beat Elves, U-Merfolk, UWb-Stoneblade & Miracles, got beaten by Eldrazi c/o Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog. I just had no answers to them.

I've dropped FoW and Prized Amalgam for now, I'm finding DRS and Sc-Ooze aren't as omnipresent anymore, so despite running the blue side for freakin ages I think I'll give it a rest.

RE: Eldrazi. I feel I'm still learning how to play against them, but I'm often getting smashed 0-2.
They have ways to tax us, kill our bridges, exile our biz and exile our yard. I've tried going fearless with petals for speed, but it's not worked well so far.
So how do you guys beat them? Anyone beat them consistently?

I'm gonna be streaming Dredge in today's Legacy Challenge.

Come say hello!

twitch.tv/OriginalOestrus

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Originally Posted by Que

Hey everyone! So this Saturday myself and my other legacy cohorts will be doing a Legacy gauntlet stream. We will have quite a few decks to work with so hopefully will get to bring you some exciting matches. Of course I will be running Dredge for the most part, but we will have some rotations throughout the day. There is no official start time, however, most likely around 3 PM PST (6 EST). I will probably post once more before the event to provide a clearer time in the chance that we start to deviate too much from our original start time. We will be BBQing before hand and while not certain I believe my buddy whose hosting wanted to incorporate that into the stream somehow (including the audience). Will see. :)

I hope you see you all there and please share with anyone else that may be remotely interested in Legacy. Here is the link to his channel:

https://www.twitch.tv/railbirdgaming

You can also hit that follow button to get notified whenever we go live.

Thanks guys,

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We're live now! :)

Dropped by the stream earlier and was able to catch Que against Shardless but I fell asleep after the match (woke up early and it was around 7am here when I watched). Will watch the recording and look for your other match ups.

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Originally Posted by SHABOOGS

Dropped by the stream earlier and was able to catch Que against Shardless but I fell asleep after the match (woke up early and it was around 7am here when I watched). Will watch the recording and look for your other match ups.

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Hey thanks for stopping by. Not sure what it is about streams, but the deck tends to have a mind of its own. In the matches where I didn't lose to a combination of hate and disruption I lost to my own variance mulling down to 3-4 on several occasions. Which is unfortunate when I'm trying to showcase the strengths of the deck. We all know having to mulligan quite a few times is one of the drawbacks of this deck as you really do need to see specific cards that start and facilitate your engine. But I'm hoping some glimmer of what the deck is capable of was shown.

In any case we streamed several games of Legacy with different archtypes represented throughout the day. It became more of a Legacy shindig rather than a turn style of decks Vs. Dredge. Going forward were probably hoping to be more structured and not have everyone talk over one another, but we were also less formal about it this time around as it was more laid back with drinks and food etc.

Again thanks for anyone that stopped by and hopefully I can join twitch.tv/railbirdgaming once again at some point to do it again. If you haven't given them a follow I would recommend it as they're now usually trying to stream at least a couple times a week. Get notified when they go live!

Peace,

Is it just me or is everyone and their mother playing Surgical Extraction?
I know that BR Reanimator was a major factor in causing this increase in Surgical Extraction, but even now I feel like people just smash it into every sideboard.

What are your opinions on Ground Seal? It could enable a much slower but safer route to dredging.
Pros and Cons of Ground Seal:

+ Stops Surgical Extraction
+ Stops Deathrite Shaman
+ Stops Scavenging Ooze
+ Stops Faerie Macabre
+ Stops Snapcaster Mage
+ Stops Life from the Loam
+ Stops Reanimate
+ Stops Animate Dead
+ Draws a card for dredging (or replaces itself)

- Doesn't stop Leyline of the Void
- Doesn't stop Rest in Piece
- Doesn't stop Tormods Crypt
- Doesn't stop Nihil Spellbomb
- (kinda) expensive to cast
- Can be destroyed by Abrupt Decay

So what's obvious is that Ground Seal stops basically any creature based hate, while also stopping two popular hate cards (Surgical and Faerie Macabre).
Interesting to note is that it also stops Life from the Loam and Reanimation Spells, such as Reanimate and Animate dead, but I wouldn't really consider these advantages, as I feel that Ground Seal is way too slow for the Reanimator match-up.

In my sideboard Ground Seal would replace Fire Storm and would come in in match-ups where Leyline and RiP is absent. For match-ups with Leyline and RiP I would board in additional Wear // Tear. Going this route would probably require playing additional Lotus Petals, so that the deck does not loose its speed.
But is it really better than Fire Storm though?
And does Pithing Needle not cover a lot of its advantages already?

What are you opinions on this? Do you think it is worth trying or should I scrap this idea for things I hadn't thought about yet. I'm interested in your insight on this.

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Originally Posted by HansoRaptor

Is it just me or is everyone and their mother playing Surgical Extraction?
I know that BR Reanimator was a major factor in causing this increase in Surgical Extraction, but even now I feel like people just smash it into every sideboard.

What are your opinions on Ground Seal? It could enable a much slower but safer route to dredging.
Pros and Cons of Ground Seal:

+ Stops Surgical Extraction
+ Stops Deathrite Shaman
+ Stops Scavenging Ooze
+ Stops Faerie Macabre
+ Stops Snapcaster Mage
+ Stops Life from the Loam
+ Stops Reanimate
+ Stops Animate Dead
+ Draws a card for dredging (or replaces itself)

- Doesn't stop Leyline of the Void
- Doesn't stop Rest in Piece
- Doesn't stop Tormods Crypt
- Doesn't stop Nihil Spellbomb
- (kinda) expensive to cast
- Can be destroyed by Abrupt Decay

So what's obvious is that Ground Seal stops basically any creature based hate, while also stopping two popular hate cards (Surgical and Faerie Macabre).
Interesting to note is that it also stops Life from the Loam and Reanimation Spells, such as Reanimate and Animate dead, but I wouldn't really consider these advantages, as I feel that Ground Seal is way too slow for the Reanimator match-up.

In my sideboard Ground Seal would replace Fire Storm and would come in in match-ups where Leyline and RiP is absent. For match-ups with Leyline and RiP I would board in additional Wear // Tear. Going this route would probably require playing additional Lotus Petals, so that the deck does not loose its speed.
But is it really better than Fire Storm though?
And does Pithing Needle not cover a lot of its advantages already?

What are you opinions on this? Do you think it is worth trying or should I scrap this idea for things I hadn't thought about yet. I'm interested in your insight on this.

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Everything you wrote seems accurate. The reason I wouldn't run Seal is that the main deck it seems to target is BUG. Of whatever version. Since they all run Deathrite and Surgical. The problems are twofold. One, you would need to run Petal in conjunction to reliably resolve Seal. This means you would need to cut any other slots you might need for those matchups. With a typical deck running some permanent remove for Leylines and Cages, and some form of Dread package in the side, you wont have any other slots. Which mean you are all-in on Seal vs those decks. Two, Delver will never let Seal resolve. And even if they do, they will have Decays still, since they don't have enough cards to SB in against us. Same goes for Shardless. Only they are less likely to be able to counter it, and more likely to discard it, or have some other hate that Seal does nothing against. You don't feel its fast enough vs Reanimator. Loam is not how Lands beats us. You cant board it in vs MUD or Eldrazi. Since while they do sometimes run Macabre, they are at least as likely to run Crypt or Leyline respectively. Not sure where the benefits lay.

It shuts off your own Dread Returns as well. I wouldn't run it over Firestorm.

So I have been testing 3 Ground Seal right now by removing 2 Dread Return and 1 Ashen Rider and I had some mediocre success with it.

What I'm wondering though is how you guys manage to win against Surgical Extraction? Everyone I'm playing online against has them in their sideboard. I even moved from Putrid Imp to Street Wraith just to fight these Surgicals, but even then my opponent responses to my Cycling with a second Surgical :rolleyes: Perhaps I'm just having some bad luck and my opponents just happen to draw the right cards :frown:

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Originally Posted by HansoRaptor

So I have been testing 3 Ground Seal right now by removing 2 Dread Return and 1 Ashen Rider and I had some mediocre success with it.

What I'm wondering though is how you guys manage to win against Surgical Extraction? Everyone I'm playing online against has them in their sideboard. I even moved from Putrid Imp to Street Wraith just to fight these Surgicals, but even then my opponent responses to my Cycling with a second Surgical :rolleyes: Perhaps I'm just having some bad luck and my opponents just happen to draw the right cards :frown:

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To start, how are you having issues with Surgical if you're successful with Seal?

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Originally Posted by Parcher

To start, how are you having issues with Surgical if you're successful with Seal?

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Mediocre success. Just because I have it in the sideboard does not mean that I get to draw it and it does also not mean that I get to win while having it out. Sometimes dredging just does not work out.
What I would like to know is if there are other angles you try to attack when you know the opponent has boarded in some number of surgicals. Do you just go for it as soon as possible or do you try to play the slow game with unmask and the likes?