[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

One Island is enough for the opponent to get back into the game. After lili ulti he has six turns to draw a land or two, which is very likely to happen since a typical miracle deck runs Brainstorm, Ponder, Portent and predict. It would have taken time to find the actual answer to lili but with no threats on the table there was enough time to dig through the deck. Once Lili is gone he could play the usual miracle robo game for the win.

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If your opponent has only 1 Island then the only spell they can cast is a cantrip
All their threats get discarded
All their counterspells get discarded
In those 6 turns every time your opponent draws something they can't use, Liliana is providing you advantage and giving you a pool of loyalty to deal with any future threats they happen to play (or half their manabase), in the meantime hopefully you draw a threat you can cast (or a Mishra's Factory).

In the game 2 that was recorded the Pox player doesn't draw any castable threat behind their Liliana for like 4-5 turns but the opponent concedes to SPAWNING POOL

If you don't have Liliana in your deck vs Miracles you don't have any consistent way to deplete the opponent's resources, so when they draw Mentor it's much easier for them to cast it with mana and a spell up, and when this happens you just lose the game instantly

If you have an actual suggested sideboard configuration with his decklist vs miracles that includes cutting Liliana of the Veil I'd be glad to hear it

Could someone post a decent list with cards like the abyss, nether void and chains of M.?

Thank you

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

If your opponent has only 1 Island then the only spell they can cast is a cantrip Which is the only thing he want to draw because he is digging for land
All their threats get discarded Like it matters, see above
All their counterspells get discarded Like it matters, see above
In those 6 turns every time your opponent draws something they can't use, Liliana is providing you advantage Forcing someone to discard what they cannot use is in no way an action that give you an advantage
and giving you a pool of loyalty to deal with any future threats they happen to play That is good to have (or a Third of their manabase Don't expect the best outcome is a good rule), in the meantime hopefully you draw a threat you can cast (or a Mishra's Factory). Low threat count is a problem with pox decks

In the game 2 that was recorded the Pox player doesn't draw any castable threat behind their Liliana for like 4-5 turns but the opponent concedes to SPAWNING POOLYou don't concede to a 20 turn clock. As I wrote he had other reasons for sure.

If you don't have Liliana in your deck vs Miracles you don't have any consistent way to deplete the opponent's resources, so when they draw Mentor it's much easier for them to cast it with mana and a spell up, and when this happens you just lose the game instantly Mentor is a valid concern, but that consistent depleting of resources OTOH is likely to hurt you more than him.

If you have an actual suggested sideboard configuration with his decklist vs miracles that includes cutting Liliana of the Veil I'd be glad to hear it Adachi had plenty of cards in the SB.
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Bitterblossom
2 Lost Legacy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Phyrexian Obliterator

Bitterblossom is popular in this matchup have i heard. And Needles and chains and etc. I guess the cards that would be next to useless would have been the Innocent Blood, Lilianas and the Bridge. That is nine cards. There are 14 playables in the SB so no problem. I would probably board in
3 Bitterblossom
2 Lost Legacy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Phyrexian Obliterator

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Been looking through this thread for a while and starting to put a decklist together. Has anyone tried Asylum Visitor? I’m thinking of trying 1-2 copies. Seems like it might fit given you can cast when discarding via Lili’s +1 and both you and your opponent are lokely to be hellbent at some point.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by MammalsOfTheWorld

Been looking through this thread for a while and starting to put a decklist together. Has anyone tried Asylum Visitor? I’m thinking of trying 1-2 copies. Seems like it might fit given you can cast when discarding via Lili’s +1 and both you and your opponent are lokely to be hellbent at some point.

Thanks!

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It's a type of card that rely on conditions outside your control. In Legacy that is a big weakness since it is such a competitive format.
If you want cards advantage look elsewhere. Phyrexian Arena is solid. Underworld Connections is an alternative if you worry dying to your own enchantment.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

It's a type of card that rely on conditions outside your control. In Legacy that is a big weakness since it is such a competitive format.
If you want cards advantage look elsewhere. Phyrexian Arena is solid. Underworld Connections is an alternative if you worry dying to your own enchantment.

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Thanks for the response. I may give Arena a shot.

If you run 4 Rituals and 25+ lands, you may also consider Ob Nixilis.
More expensive than Arena, but same CA, and additional creature removal and a non creature-based win con (great if you run Ensnaring Bridge / Night of soul betrayal / Abyss etc).

Definitely looking to run 4 Rituals, as I’m planning to run some number of Trinisphere and a Beseech. Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll do some playtesting with Ob Nixilis.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

It's a type of card that rely on conditions outside your control. In Legacy that is a big weakness since it is such a competitive format.
If you want cards advantage look elsewhere. Phyrexian Arena is solid. Underworld Connections is an alternative if you worry dying to your own enchantment.

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I agree that Asylum Visitor is not the most reliable card advantage engine out there, but if you look at him as a beater he's not so bad. He has a good cost, relevant clock and provides nice synergy if you manage to cast him off Liliana +1 or a Smallpox.

I'm not saying I would run 4 copies maindeck, but under the right conditions, I could see myself running a few in the sideboard in the Dark Confidant slots.

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Originally Posted by itsvan

I agree that Asylum Visitor is not the most reliable card advantage engine out there, but if you look at him as a beater he's not so bad. He has a good cost, relevant clock and provides nice synergy if you manage to cast him off Liliana +1 or a Smallpox.

I'm not saying I would run 4 copies maindeck, but under the right conditions, I could see myself running a few in the sideboard in the Dark Confidant slots.

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It's worth a try.

I played Ob Nixilis for a bit, found him slow but maybe you'll like him.

Asylum Visitor is interesting, if you test her out please report back, would be interested to here how it goes.

Check the timing rules on madness and asylum visitor since you may have to sacrifice it during the resolution of a smallpox like obstinate baloth.
If it only gets value on a lili +1, then prolly not worth it.

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Originally Posted by non-inflammable

Check the timing rules on madness and asylum visitor since you may have to sacrifice it during the resolution of a smallpox like obstinate baloth.
If it only gets value on a lili +1, then prolly not worth it.

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Good thought, that hadn’t occurred to me. I checked around, and per the below the madness trigger resolves after the smallpox finishes resolving, so it should work:



https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...hem-2000-01-01

Only replacement effects happen during resolution of any pox effects. Like discard of Wilt-Leaf Liege for example.

People suggesting to play a bad, unreliable and highly fragile 3/1 creature in a deck with 8+ symmetric sacrifice effects. Classic.

Protip: You want to be able to cast smallpox in a smallpox deck. So you play cards that break the symmetry with smallpox. Nether Spirit, Bloodghast, etc. If you are playing cards in a smallpox deck that forces you to not be able to play the smallpox in your hand, thereby allowing your opponant to rebuild his board state, that means you are playing cards that do not belong in a smallpox deck. Tl;Dr: The deck is focued on SMALLPOX. Play cards that benefit from you casting smallpox, not cards that force you to not play smallpox.

Brotip: you never want to cast neither Innocent Blood, Smallpox nor (most of the times) any sweeper if one of those visitors is already in play and, trust me, these situations will occur. While discarding it to smallpox may be nice, every additional Smallpox you draw afterwards becomes significantly worse. In Legacy you also do not want highly conditional synergies or such but cards that are powerful on their own at any time. Visitor doesn't make that cut. Besides, there are so many cards for pox that are better at abusing symmetrical effects so it's pretty obvious that this is not what the deck needs to improve.

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Originally Posted by fluuu

Could someone post a decent list with cards like the abyss, nether void and chains of M.?

Thank you

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nobody?

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Originally Posted by fluuu

nobody?

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i mean i can give you a list, but very few decks run those cards as more than 1-2x

Here are two lists: one two



played Pox tonight, with a 7 walker list. went 1-3. beat Aggro loam of all things, which was nice. but lost to Burn, Dragon Stompy, and Deadguy Ale. That last one is an interesting matchup. Feels pretty even but it can be hard to shut down SoFI, and once it connects it's brutal. Burn and Dragons are obviously bad matchups, managed to get a game off each of them, but other than that got steamrolled.

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Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi

i mean i can give you a list, but very few decks run those cards as more than 1-2x

Here are two lists: one two



played Pox tonight, with a 7 walker list. went 1-3. beat Aggro loam of all things, which was nice. but lost to Burn, Dragon Stompy, and Deadguy Ale. That last one is an interesting matchup. Feels pretty even but it can be hard to shut down SoFI, and once it connects it's brutal. Burn and Dragons are obviously bad matchups, managed to get a game off each of them, but other than that got steamrolled.

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OK, Burn is not a fantastic MU, but honestly Dragon Stompy (I prefer to call it MonoRed Prison) is not that bad.
We play a lot of basics, and we have great tools to fight their creatures (Night of soul betrayal, Bridge and even Abyss). And personnally, I tuned my Pox to suit a Chalice heavy meta, using as few 1 drops as possible (2 TS, no Innocent blood, etc)

The Walkers version of Mono Red Prison is probably more difficult to fight. Pithing needle / Spyglass are our friends, but they have easy access to artifact removal (Abrade / Fiery confluence...). But this version is less played for now.