Smaller sample sizes on both of those. Variance. It could be a number of things, but they're both fine match-ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
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Smaller sample sizes on both of those. Variance. It could be a number of things, but they're both fine match-ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
Bryant,
Thanks for all the work you've put into writing your reports and articles, and taking the time to explain your reasoning behind your choices in addition to the documentation of the staggering amounts of data you've collected to compile them all. I really like the defense grid tech- I've made multiple sideboard adjustments now in addition to the maindecked island and am so far liking how the deck handles much better, and especially like the Defense Grid tech- to those who are unsure about it, I can only suggest you try it out at least. Flusterstorm and FoW are much worse when they cost 4 and 3 mana to cast.
When Abrade becomes legal, do you find yourself wanting to test it? I appreciate the versatility of the card, but since it's not wishable, this means it's got to go into the MD as a 2 or 3 of, and that means it's fighting against Rending Volley and Echoing Truth for SB slots. As you expressed in your previous posts, leyline is a problem we're unlikely to face- possible, but unlikely. Do you think there's more to be gained by playing Abrade over Echoing Truth? Lem has made the case for more artifact destruction being brought into the MB, and Abrade does so with the added bonus of being able to fry critters if nothing else, capable of taking on targets Rending Volley cannot. Rending Volley does the job of removing Thalia and Leo in the most cost effective way possible though, there's no doubt it's the best at what it does.
Thanks, I'm glad the information is getting some use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw
What you just described is why I decided not to make a comment on the card. It's certainly playable, but may not have a place in the sideboard.
Another episode of the series TheEpicStorm.com: TES MATCHUP BATTLES! is up and this time we face UR Delver! Giving a breakdown of the matchup that we are likely to face in a tournament after its 2nd place at GP Vegas.
http://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-matc...les-ur-delver/
Let me know your thoughts and opinions. Thank you.
- Alex Poling
AJ Kerrigan's latest: http://www.theepicstorm.com/fighting...-post-top-era/
TES mailbox is back:
http://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-mailbox-10/
Combo turn includes the turns that you generate goblins through empty right? This doesn't mean the turn you win?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Correct, as explained in the spreadsheet "Key", the same could be applied for the ANT deck as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
My friend Vincent Cheung recently Top 8'd with TES.
Here's the report:
http://www.theepicstorm.com/riders-s...ment-07012017/
(I helped Vincent write it and can help answer questions. He's mostly a lurker here.)
We have some amazing big tournaments in Beijing and Guangzhou each year. Message me if you're interested!
Any thoughts on a drop-in replacement for Telemin Performance in a local metagame where it isn't appropriate? Likely opponents are Elves, Death & Taxes, Mono-Blue Omniscience, Grixis Delver, MUD, a couple of flavours of BUG (Goyf, Nic Fit, Aluren), and some kind of Eldrazi or Colourless 12-Post.
Bribery? Void Snare?Quote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
Temporal FissureQuote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
Hi. I just wanted to share my last experience in a local t.
I changed 5 cards in my 75 trying to do something different on an approach to a fetch manabase. I looked at TES lists in tc decks and found somthin i could try. It was 12 lands 3 scalding 4 poll 2 v.i. 2 u.s. 1 badlands. At first i was skeptical as 1 badlands is always bad. And fetching with 1 scalding will leave with 1 less land to find. Also as a derivderivatclusion i changed my baoyu in side for a tropical.
After 4 rounds in the local i just confirmed what i thought. It was absolutly wrong that manabase. Badlands was bad and tropical costed me the game. Also i was susceptible to stifle more often than not. As it seems that Grixis plays c.t in side and stifle in base or backwards.
I want to expose a reflexion and is the followin:
What we all TES players want is to have 7 disruption effects, 3 c.m. and 4 b.w. because these are the slots which can vary the most. And among these numbers the variation in directly related to the manabase numbers also - i mean - i would be extremely happy to play a feych manabase with 13 lands. BUT by doing this i will need to:
1. Take out 1 discard - c.t. - i cannot do this. Likely therapy is the card i want to see more vs fow decks
2. Take out 3rd c.m. - wrong
3. Take out b.w. well this maybe the card ill be taking out if i wanted to play fetch manabase. But i ve used lately b.w. for bribery g.s. etc. So many times thay i cannot coceive to take the 4th copy.
Whati want to put emphasis on is that im not playin gemstobes manabase because i just like it. The reason is thar that manabase is the correct manabase if i want to run tbe numbers of the cards above mentioned. As exmple and looking at the latest TES builds - ok. They have 13 fetch manabase HOWEVER they play only 3 c.t. - a number of a card i cannot conceive as of now to run less than 4. ANT runs 6. But the have pif. We cannot do such a thing vs a so fow meta infested. I personally for sure run 4th Duress in side for the same reason.
In my slow evolution to a better TES manabase ill likely try +3rd u.sea in the plave of 4th gemstone next time as the uniq scenario i really want to avoid is having 2 gemstones in my initial hand. Also i don want to be stifled and neither decremnt the odds of drawinh a land if previously i fetched with a LandThatShouldNotBeFetch.
I hope this thoutgh is shared by some.
Please letme know your thoughts.
EDIT: long time has elapsed since we included Dark Petition in our Sides, however I found that I really dont play the card much... scenarios are:
1) to find ETW to generate +1 Storm
2) to find a Sided in Tendrils
3) to find A.N. for the tough of 9 mana.
The question is: is really worth maintain D.P. in our Side now we even play cards like T.P. or Bribery? which are your reasoning?
I've put in some time with Bryant's list and have a couple of thoughts,
Defense Grid: I think this card is ok if it resolves but bad when it doesn't resolve, the problem is 2cc disruption in a 13 land deck gets Dazed where 1cc disruption doesn't. Even when it did resolve, it wasn't difficult for Deathrite Shaman to give the opponent 3 mana for Force of Will and all of the Deathrite Shaman decks had discard either MD or SB that Duress would've dealt with. It feels even more linear now than Silence did then, and if it were a good card I think more people in the ANT thread would've already been playing it with 15 lands.
Island and Badlands: I don't like lands that don't produce combo colors or blue in theory, but Island and Badlands were interesting to play with in practice. The deck has a more stable manabase with Island in testing, but also had a slower fundamental turn in gold fishing. I think Island is a move further away from TES and towards ANT, in the sense that we have to decide how much explosiveness we want to sacrifice for stability, and consider what answers we want to play post-board and how those answers align with our first fetch target. I appreciated Island in the Wasteland/Stifle match ups and just accepted Badlands as a concession to 2 basics. It's awesone to have so many targets for your fetchlands, but awful to draw any land individually so it's interesting to note all of the corner cases.
Meltdown: It's worse than By Force because you'll see Chalice of the Void on 1 regardless and it's not cost efficient enough to deal with a Thorn of Amethyst or a Phyrexian Revoker.
Rending Volley: The card is REALLY good and the uncounterability more than makes up for it not killing Phyrexian Revoker or Eidilon. I was playing with 2 Rending Volley and a Deathmark and just ripped thru' D&T with no problems.
Grape Shot: I switched between Grape Shot and Death Mark in testing and the only thing I regretted was Death Mark couldn't kill Eidilon and wasn't as useful for killing that stupid Elf as I thought compared to reaching for Empty the Warrens. I'm actually looking at Chain Lightning right now, but needing RR is so much slower than having RB.
Void Snare: It does nothing well except answer Leyline of Sanctity, I had plenty of other removal to SB vs every match so the card is SUPER linear for just a SB silver bullet in a deck that is a terrible match up already.
Telemin vs Bribery: Totally comes down to how much Reanimator you see as the Show&Tell match still sucks with Telemin and the Lands and Storm match are still winnable without it.
MD Empty the Warrens: I am thinking about cutting it, Miracles is still a thing, SBs are prepared for it and MD Stifle is every where. It frees up a SB slot if you go back to the 3 Duress, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1 Thoughtseize configuration and the SB Grape Shot makes more sense as a Meddling Mage hedge. The card just seemed like a really meh draw by itself when Grixis has Stifle and having to wait a turn for the 5th mana a lot of the times just meant I could cast another discard or cantrip in between.
Echoing Truth: With the exception of Eidolon I got more value out of Hurkyls, do other people see enough U/r Delver to bother?
[QUOTE=Final Fortune;1017282]I've put in some time with Bryant's list and have a couple of thoughts,
Defense Grid:
Same thoutgh, althought i even ddnt tested it...
Island and Badlands:
Well, you play 13 lands me 12, just 1 differences land, I have likley the same perception as you, even i didn't tested at all this setting. but the real concern is the different approach you and me will take in order to confront mana denial decks:
1) I will do more like ponder or duress then wastelanded always trying to remain at least 1 land which produces the most versatile possible colors (i even dont play lands if i am gonna do nothing with them if i suspect wasteland!), then duress again or B.S. into win
2) you fetch for basic, stabilize and win, if you fetch with scalidng the we'll both have the same odds of finding another land (sad but true!), you are more susceptible even to stifle and with Island and Swamp landed (supposed to be your ideal scenario vs denial) you need C.M. on red or petal or 3rd fetch or volcanic for the B.W. win. are 13 lands enough for this? i dont think so.
I done 2) aproach with TNT long time ago and worked! but that was a shell with 15 lands, what intrigues me is that you sometimes will need to fetch for U.S. as this is the unique fetch you have and fetch for island will just cost you the game, moreless the same can be applicable for Swamp, althiugh this produces Combo mana. Then that scenario Plus the fact that you play among 13 lands 2 non blue producers is what preserves me from even try this... as for me 1) approach has been fine.
Meltdown:
dont agree meltodown kills mltiple chalice for 2 mana, and how many times have you faced thorn and won after that no matter the Side hater you have in side? for me 0 times. NOTE: I play SS
Rending Volley:
agree with that perception although i didnt test it but for sure i'll do at some point in TNT... I stick on Decays by the moment in TES...
Grape Shot:
that is such a good card... have in mind also that it can be casted by R, the other day i won a scenario with 2 chalice 1 Gaddock 1 Leyline becuase of Super G.S. AND absolyty needed it to be casted off R
Void Snare:
Agree took out and still dont regret it. BUT i wont take it out withouth leaving in side at least 1) an artifact hater 2) E.T.
Telemin vs Bribery:
Brubery for me all das of the week. i just hate that random factor and dont mind lands or mirrors.
MD Empty the Warrens:
MD all days f the weeks, speed up the deck a good percentage... take it out if you want for 2nd and 3rd game, but this card steal 1st games as no other...
Echoing Truth:
2 in my side by the moment and been great, if i had to evaluate scenarios where hurkils would have been better are 0.
The problem with Chrome Mox not impriting for R mana consistently is why I'm not playing Island personally, I think Island and Badlands is the line between ANT's turn 3 and TES' turn 2 approach in terms of the fundamental turn in theory but in practice you rarely win on turn 2 vs control regardless. I don't find Gemstone Mine necessary at all in TES, when you fetch for Swamp you usually have either R mana in your hand or you don't need it.
The difference between Meltdown killing two Chalice of the Void and By Force killing them is 1 mana, which is doable, but Meltdown is worthless vs Thorn of Amethyst at 4 mana compared to By Force and it is a strictly worse SB card to bring into the MD. One of the reasons I like By Force and Death Mark is that they're good in either the SB or the MD where Meltdown and Grape Shot are only good in the SB. I find Hurkyl's Recall whiping Thorn of Amethyst and Chalice of the Void off the field at the same time to be pretty relevant, where Echoing Truth is only good vs 2xChalice of the Void and Eidilon.
The problem with the 7th discard, which I would like to have in the MD in order to make SB space, is that something in the MD has to give and Empty the Warrens is the one card that I SB out more than any other vs Island.dec There were a lot of 6 mana Empty the Warrens hands that had to become 7 mana Ad Nauseam hands because I Gitaxian Probed into a Stifle. I'll probably end up putting it back in at some point, as I tend to cut either the Empty the Warrens, the 3rd Chrome Mox or the 7th discard for one or the other - but I've gotten too used to 13, if not 14, lands to go back to only 12. If some of the T1 and T2 Goblins, go hands become T2 and T3 Ad Nauseam hands I'm ok with that as it's still a turn faster than ANT.
The problem with TNT is always going to be the conflict between Burning Wish and Cabal Ritual, running less than 4 Buning Wish and Cabal Rituals just feels so bad when you can't go off turn 2 and Burning Wish becomes an expensive Past in Flames because you missed your window for Goblins. TES is pretty much always going to be the Rite of Flame and Burning Wish deck for that reason, regardless of any other structural changes we may tinker with.
Some circling topic in this thread over the years have become cringeworthy to read over and over again. Having issues with 12 lands vs Stifle/Wasteland/Daze deck is a 2012 problem, which was solved by basic land(s) and/or 14 lands in the 75. There is no new ground to explore in that regards.
Removing the 3rd Mox and the EtW for the 7th Discard plus an additional land is a viable and balanced approach to tackle a tempo heavy meta
Hey all!
I just published my first article up on the epicstorm.com on how to bait counterspells. Enjoy!
I'd lvoe any feedback you have! and let me know if there are any articles you'd like to see written!
http://theepicstorm.com/baiting-that-counterspell/
Great Lemnear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I believe the next step is to try Lake of the dead after the inclusion of 1 more Swamps.
I've had 0 problems with that since 2010. Instead of just answering like this, you could answer the other question referring to the evaluation of DP in side, but whatever who matters, I just already knew your response. You know... I still feel love for you Lem.
EDIT:
@MAgoPunch: really didnt read more than 2 lines of that article... i really dont like feel I could write the soo big trees and subtrees scenarios in given context can occur. which is something it seems to be demonstrated in your article...It is all about Statistics and Context. I just love so much this deck...
@F.F. : Thats ok.
The point is that paying 3 mana under thorn for ByForce is not a scenario as said i will contemplate I mean I just ignore it - and of course neither 4 under meltdown.
On the other scenario with revoker you mention - well i have G.S. for him.
Well all things seem stated regarding TNT archetype, however when I played it I just felt like it was the best storm deck existing... note I've only played ANT in the era of M.Tutors AND with DD... maybe i just like B.W... BUT have in mind that that deck won a GP.
If you have no problems with 12 lands, then why are you crying about Stifle and land density?
No one ever suggested to run 12 lands including badlands in a metagame with resurging numbers of tempo decks, so why try to take various 14-land concepts totally out of context in terms of lands total and metagame? What's next in line? Running 10 fetches + 2 duals and then bitching about fetchlands being bad because you run out of targets?
You know Peter, I've been thinking. With all of these Stifles and Wastelands, it might be correct to go back to 12 gold lands and Silences. Maybe an Autumn's Veil or two? I can't remember who suggested it, but it seemed like a great idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Only if we run a 3/3/3 split of Silence/Chant/VeilQuote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Well, we only play six discard spells at the moment. If we do that, it cuts into our Gitaxian Probes - which are less useful without Cabal Therapy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Given the scenario for example of Mr. B. latest build he plays total 13 lands among them 8 fetches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I currently play 12 lands plus 1 in side among them only 4 fetchlands - exactly half. the land in side is bayou which of course i side in vs agrodecks- this setting hasnt changed for soo long for me...
I was regretting playing 12 lands and among them 8 fetches , 1 badlands and tropical in side in the last torunament, I really dont know why i even tryed this and was wrong...
i also remember playing the typical 8fetches 2sea2volanic 1 swamp with 61 cards in deck - was wrong also.
What i mean is that the setting i am currently playing is the one i've been the most confortable with for soooo long - you know 3c.m. 7 discards, etc... and 12 lands.
i just cannot conceive in TES just fetchjing for an island with 13 lands 8fetches... maybe a swamp - but of course not an island - i believe it is the worst card you can play in TES, i believe i have a different manner to confront Stifle_wasteland decks i just prefer to have just the lands whch produce the most polivalent mana I mean lto be able to play a ponder thereapy or uress and win with 1 land and a petal or even with no lands... i dont lie - i won matchsup like this - but fething island just do nothing just to play shitty ponder AND avoid paying mana from 1 daze? and youll need B/R apart of island in order to win... other story is ANT with 15 lands where in here you really DO expect to land 2-3 lands - 2 lands difference is a matter.
my next try wuld be-4th gemstone +3rd u.sea and evaluate... given that i dont want to:
a) play more than 4 fetches
b) AND not less than 8 total green producers
c) AND no more than 7discard/3c.m./1EtW/4B.W.
d) avoid the sceneario Of: have in hand uniquely 1 gemstone as land, then ponder for a need of a 2nd land and find another gemstone. Exactly and uniquely this one. the rest do not mind like 2 gemstone in hand or sea for ponder and find gemstonet, etc, etc etc.
EDIT: @Mr. B and Lem. and related to what those funny messages: Please could you review my footer: Yes, I am advanced and you know it... 10 more pages and just shut up...
Had a spot tonight with a Mother of Runes protecting a Phyrexian Revoker where Meltdown would have gotten the job done but By Force couldn't. I was pretty firmly in the By Force camp, but since Death & Taxes is my most common matchup, I think I'll switch over to Meltdown for now. At a GP I think I would probably still play By Force.
Tried out Condemn//Oblivion also. Seemed fine, probably good if you want to have a way to get rid of Leyline of Sanctity. I probably won't stick with it just because no one has put a Leyline of Sanctity on the battlefield against me in years.
I'm not trying to be a butt-ass, but I genuinely don't understand about half of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Why would you only play four fetches if you're running (presumably) quad-Brainstorm? Forgive me if I'm newbing hard, but I don't get it.
Isn't that what Massacre is for, or did he not have a Plains on the board?Quote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
Consign/Oblivion is a better card to SB in than Void Snare and Imprints for two colors ... I'm definitely going to try those out over Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall and Abrase this weekend but at least one seems like a SB staple to me. Nice find.
It's from one of Bryant's most recent MTGO lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Cool story, bro. I think, over the years pretty much every variation and merges between ANT and TES popped up here and there, like Wish+CR in either deck, white-splash in ANT, MB PIF+RoF, every combo of duress/thoughtseize/IoK/Therapy/etc and much more. We all are throwing lists and ideas (like Mox Diamonds, SolLands, etc) around and test here and there, but the important aspects are reasoning & metagame context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
That's exactly the point where any discussion crosses a red line. Randomly set parameters like "i dont eant to run more than 4 fetches" without any reasoning behind. We do this for freaking YEARS now. I could host a 3h twitch show solely talking about relations/goals of several fetch/dual/basic configs in TES based on various metagame structures. We could stretch it further by expanding the topic to Shuffle-effects required for Ponder/Brainstorm. I could outline to which great effect you can manipulate the manaflow with Fetchlands, cantrips and both thinning out the deck ON DEMAND or just use them to build your manabase while being safe from Wastelands. All of this is apparently irrelevant, if you randomly set 4 fetches as the to-goQuote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
I played one in a Sunday Legacy Challenge on mtgo, the problem is you can't side it in to deal with Chalices as you'll take 7dmg off of Ad Nauseam...Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
He had a Flagstones and a Karakas and was sandbagging a Plains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Yeah, I should note that Consign//Oblivion is not my tech. I saw Bryant try it and so I tried it too.
I would watch that. Please be mean on stream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I wasn't aware Ad Nauseam counts the combined manacost, but even if that prevents us from SBing it in it still seems like a SB card we should be running in the Meltdown slot(?) since it deals with Leyline of Sanctity, Chalice of the Void, Gaddok Teeg and Leovold, Emissary of Trest - that should free up a SB, I would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I found wishing for Consign and then being able to cast it without red mana compared to By Force significant vs Eldrazi.
I am not mean, i merely hate simplistic answers to complex problemsQuote:
Originally Posted by LDX
Hey guys! My first article for theepicstorm.com just went live. I'm taking over The Infernal Tutoring Series and in this installment we go over different situations, or when to "jam" or not. Let me know what you think!
http://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-9-2/
@Pelikanudo
Thanks for taking a look at the article even if you only got two lines in. I am still finding my voice as a magic writer, and hope to keep improving the content and quality of writing. It seems you guys do a lot of good theory crafting here, what types of articles would you be interested in reading?
If you want to write a more effective article then you shouldn't tell the reader what the outcome of your decision was. The reader will already presume the outcome of your decision resulted in a loss by presenting the question to begin with, but confirming that by showing them the outcome only biases the reader into believing your decision was wrong (which isn't always necessarily the case) and discourages them from actually thinking about the question because the answer is already "apparent."Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrusCG
So in short, I think you should reconsider how you present information by only offering a scenario, asking the reader what he would do in that scenario, ask them why they would do that, tell them what you did, explain your reasoning for having done it and let them argue with you about whether or not that decision was the right choice and why/why not. Afterwards you can follow up on the last article with the actual outcome in your next article so people can see what happeneded after the issue was discussed as much as possible.
Great input. Haven't thought about thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
You can choose not to believe me, but I told him this a few days ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I asked him not to do it in the future.
It's general knowledge from poker forums, as long as the point is made it should lead to better writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook