[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

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Originally Posted by kubalonek

So what is your main / sideboard for now? How are the revokers. From what I've read they are nuts.

greetings
kubalonek

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4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Restoration Angel

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Vindicate


4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Cave of Koilos
1 Karakas

SB
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Engineered Plague
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
1 Perish
2 Disenchant

My friend says I should cut a lingering souls for the fourth liliana. Not sure. I still am not certain I want 4 souls, just not sure what to add in. My random ideas are: Top, Liliana, the 3/3 black flyer with bestow from born of the gods, and maybe elspeth/sorin.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Restoration Angel

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Vindicate


4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Cave of Koilos
1 Karakas

SB
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Engineered Plague
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
1 Perish
2 Disenchant

My friend says I should cut a lingering souls for the fourth liliana. Not sure. I still am not certain I want 4 souls, just not sure what to add in. My random ideas are: Top, Liliana, the 3/3 black flyer with bestow from born of the gods, and maybe elspeth/sorin.

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I´d go for Liliana. A single top seems kinda random and I don´t find the flyer so breath taking. If I would want to run a 3 mana creature with avoidance I would probably pick Vampire Nighthawk. I just can´t see myself playing the bestow costs very often...

To be honest, I just really don't any to buy another liliana even though it might be right. I forgot about night hawk. That seems strong. Only issue I see is that if I add in a flyer like that in the slot, why not just keep souls? Top just seems too durdley for me. I like being more proactive. Liliana may be the right call. What about adding a main board zealous persecution? Too narrow?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

To be honest, I just really don't any to buy another liliana even though it might be right. I forgot about night hawk. That seems strong. Only issue I see is that if I add in a flyer like that in the slot, why not just keep souls? Top just seems too durdley for me. I like being more proactive. Liliana may be the right call. What about adding a main board zealous persecution? Too narrow?

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In these colors, I wouldn't bother with adding another 1-of. I don't think cutting a souls is wrong just because your curve looks pretty high, but you might look at also dropping the Angel and Vindicate for a 3-of something. Not really sure what in this list though. Bitterblossom is good if you can sustain more life loss, Spirit of the Labrynth is good, Flickerwisp (double W and more cmc3 though). You could also cut something else (maybe IoK/Thoughtseize) and run 4 Moms.

Also not huge on the 4th Lili, even when playing 3 I seem to always draw multiples, and there's no way to get them out of hand here.

I'd play Stillmoon Cavalier over Nighthawk. He Moat's Griselbee's / Marit Lage, Germ and can usually get through on a swing back ... he has one ass but so does every other man in your pile in many cases. He's an Oreo colored True Name, can't Swords him, can't Decay him. Death and Taxes just like burn their library at the sight of him.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I'd play Stillmoon Cavalier over Nighthawk. He Moat's Griselbee's / Marit Lage, Germ and can usually get through on a swing back ... he has one ass but so does every other man in your pile in many cases. He's an Oreo colored True Name, can't Swords him, can't Decay him. Death and Taxes just like burn their library at the sight of him.

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+1. back in the 90s, before i chose talking to girls over buying a set of power in order to compete, i used to play Dega board control (ironically enough). You know, when Balance, DT, Vamp, and Wheel were all restricted, and non-blue decks played Jayemdae Tome.

The best 2 creatures? Order of the Ebon Hand and Wildfire Emissary. The former only died to bolt, the latter only to Terror. Pro White and Black locks up a lot of stuff…

I played Deadguy when I came back to the game in 2011, and included some funny choices like Abyssal Persecutor and Nighthawk, and maindeck diabolic edict (which is now just better as a couple of copies of Liliana). You can really catch your opponents off guard with unconventional choices…look at the new Edric Bant deck! fucking Looter il-Kor.

That bestow creature is kinda meh. For 3 mana I'd rather try Brimaz. Or even Vampire Nighthawk. Stillmoon is interesting but to me that's a meta call and it dies to a lot of the TNN hate, we've already got Soul tokens and Bob that die to those shenanigans.

And Megadeus, how do you find your mana situation? Last time I was on 20 lands was when I tried Aether Vial and sometimes even then I wish I had more mana sources. IMO, I probably wouldn't go 4 Liliana. If anything, I'd probably replace it with a 2 mana card, since I think your curve should be a bit lower. So I guess either another Revoker or Sculler.

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Originally Posted by Wilkin

That bestow creature is kinda meh. For 3 mana I'd rather try Brimaz. Or even Vampire Nighthawk. Stillmoon is interesting but to me that's a meta call and it dies to a lot of the TNN hate, we've already got Soul tokens and Bob that die to those shenanigans.

And Megadeus, how do you find your mana situation? Last time I was on 20 lands was when I tried Aether Vial and sometimes even then I wish I had more mana sources. IMO, I probably wouldn't go 4 Liliana. If anything, I'd probably replace it with a 2 mana card, since I think your curve should be a bit lower. So I guess either another Revoker or Sculler.

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I apologize. I derped. I play 2 Windswept that I accidentally omitted from that post. Edited now. I'm on 22 Lands.

And I have toyed with the idea of lowing the curve. It doesnt seems bad. As for other suggestions:

Mom: I just feel that with the discard and such to proactively take answers, I don't need Moms protection too much. The only man that is really worth protecting is Bob (and I guess Sculler sometimes). Just seems redundant.

Stillmoon: He actually sounds pretty bad ass. When you bring up cases like that, that makes me want to try him. As for catching people off guard with unconventional choices, the angel already kind of does that. If I played him, I think the angel would go by the wayside probably.

Brimaz: I like him, but am somewhat hesitant towards adding a double white spell. It probably would be fine, but with 4 wasteland, 2 basic swamp, and a bayou, thats a decent amount of non white sources to potentially get screwed by.

Bitterblossom: not a fan of the card. I can see its merits in like the Miracles MU, however I do lose a lot of life already. I can't see this being that much better than Souls though.

Liliana #4: we can discard extra Lilianas to Liliana +1. Or chain them or whatever. Meh. I agree that 3 feels like a good number.

And yes, I have a lot of one ofs, but I think so far for the most part they have pulled their weight, since they generally aren't overly narrow cards. My 1 ofs (other than equipment) being a catch all removal in Vindicate (which has really overperformed), a solid beater that actually is protected from a lot of removal in Angel, and essentially a 5th thoughtseize in Inquisition, are pretty flexible and not really dead in many MUs. The only one really being Angel is somewhat slow in combo MUs. These of course compared to my theoretical 1 of Zealous Persecution which would only really be relevant in creature MUs.

I really just want to tune this to take down SCG Knox (and possibly the IQ next weekend). And right now the whole deck feels great outside of the possible cutting of a single souls. I'm hesitant to change what has been working well for me.

Why give them something to Karakas with Brimaz ... Stillmoon also first strikes, I've had people fuck that up on me. Granted mine are russian. I played 2 in a GPT for Atlanta that I scooped Greg into the finals of a couple years back. They were always fantastic against blade decks which were all the rage then, also really good vs. Maverick which was also a big deck then. They don't pair great with mom because you can't target them, but you aren't playing mom. I may even have a couple extra soulless ones you can borrow for a couple weeks if Wu doesn't have foil ones. #tuskup

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I apologize. I derped. I play 2 Windswept that I accidentally omitted from that post. Edited now. I'm on 22 Lands.

And I have toyed with the idea of lowing the curve. It doesnt seems bad. As for other suggestions:

Mom: I just feel that with the discard and such to proactively take answers, I don't need Moms protection too much. The only man that is really worth protecting is Bob (and I guess Sculler sometimes). Just seems redundant.

Stillmoon: He actually sounds pretty bad ass. When you bring up cases like that, that makes me want to try him. As for catching people off guard with unconventional choices, the angel already kind of does that. If I played him, I think the angel would go by the wayside probably.

Brimaz: I like him, but am somewhat hesitant towards adding a double white spell. It probably would be fine, but with 4 wasteland, 2 basic swamp, and a bayou, thats a decent amount of non white sources to potentially get screwed by.

Bitterblossom: not a fan of the card. I can see its merits in like the Miracles MU, however I do lose a lot of life already. I can't see this being that much better than Souls though.

Liliana #4: we can discard extra Lilianas to Liliana +1. Or chain them or whatever. Meh. I agree that 3 feels like a good number.

And yes, I have a lot of one ofs, but I think so far for the most part they have pulled their weight, since they generally aren't overly narrow cards. My 1 ofs (other than equipment) being a catch all removal in Vindicate (which has really overperformed), a solid beater that actually is protected from a lot of removal in Angel, and essentially a 5th thoughtseize in Inquisition, are pretty flexible and not really dead in many MUs. The only one really being Angel is somewhat slow in combo MUs. These of course compared to my theoretical 1 of Zealous Persecution which would only really be relevant in creature MUs.

I really just want to tune this to take down SCG Knox (and possibly the IQ next weekend). And right now the whole deck feels great outside of the possible cutting of a single souls. I'm hesitant to change what has been working well for me.

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I always say if you're winning, don't mess with it. I don't think cutting the 4th souls is a bad idea, if you really want to, maybe add the 2nd Vindicate if it's been really good?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Restoration Angel

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Vindicate


4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Cave of Koilos
1 Karakas

SB
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Engineered Plague
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
1 Perish
2 Disenchant

My friend says I should cut a lingering souls for the fourth liliana. Not sure. I still am not certain I want 4 souls, just not sure what to add in. My random ideas are: Top, Liliana, the 3/3 black flyer with bestow from born of the gods, and maybe elspeth/sorin.

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What about cutting Abrupt Decays? They were not enough good or mana does not allow to use them effectively?

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Originally Posted by kubalonek

What about cutting Abrupt Decays? They were not enough good or mana does not allow to use them effectively?

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Mana just isn't really good enough. I could possibly cut the cave of Koilos for another Bayou and maybe fit 2x Decays. Just don't really see the need for it. I like having the 2 color consistency.

A couple people have messaged me asking for my updated list that I used at the Invitational to much success.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezewa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Scrubland
2 Isolated Chapel
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Humility
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Disfigure
1 Disenchant
1 Duress

Here are things I think are bad that people have asked me about: Enlightened Tutor sideboard plans, Savannah, Sensei's Divining Top, Abrupt Decay and Tidehollow Sculler.
Here are things I think are very good: 1 Plains, 3 Wasteland, Lifebane Zombie, Disfigure, Maindeck Zealous Persecution
Here are things I am considering: More Duress, More Zealous Persecution, More Humility, Less Dark Confidant

I like your list. It's more tuned to a fair meta than mine, but it wrecks the fair decks, while still having an alright MU vs combo. I agree on top and decay. I disagree on sculler. I like lifebane and humility, however I like my show and tell hate to be a bit more proactive. As for etutor, I'm not a huge fan of it, hence why I have cut down to one. The one of has been solid though. Also despite it being slightly greedy, double wasteland wins too many games for me to cut down to three.

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Originally Posted by MBSegal

Here are things I think are bad that people have asked me about: Enlightened Tutor sideboard plans, Savannah, Sensei's Divining Top, Abrupt Decay and Tidehollow Sculler.
Here are things I think are very good: 1 Plains, 3 Wasteland, Lifebane Zombie, Disfigure, Maindeck Zealous Persecution
Here are things I am considering: More Duress, More Zealous Persecution, More Humility, Less Dark Confidant

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Agree on the things that are "bad" mostly. I am still planning to test E-tutor but they haven't come in the mail yet. I gave up on Abrupt Decay — I used to think it was too important to beat tempo, but so far the smoothing effect on my mana has outweighed having to play around counterspells (though I've only done informal testing and haven't gone to my LGS yet).

I also put THS in, but then took it out because it was almost always awkward unless I was already ahead. Dies to too much.

I also think our best path to success is to try to be the best Zealous Persecution deck in the format. It's a really good midrange card — part removal, part finisher.

I don't know if I could pull the trigger on taking out a Bob though, drawing cards off of him is so good.

Congrats on the good invi run though!

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Death and Taxes just like burn their library at the sight of him.

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'Mirin Crusadah!

Stillmoon Rides by ... spinning rims and all. The backswing is painful I guess. I haven't seen a ton of Mirran Crusader in the placing SCG DnT lists. M0@r Cat King.

I just don't want to add a double white spell here

All I wanted was the BW god to be 3 mana and maybe playable, and my prayers were answered. I'm gonna try it because whatever, maybe just 1 or 2. Definitely gonna max out on Tidehollows for him, maybe a 2nd Gatekeeper. Should be fun, ability isn't completely worthless either.

Yeah, Atheros is probably the most powerful of all the gods on Theros block and it only costs 3 mana. I think a BW D&T is possible with this be coz the Gods are synergistic with Thalia (not costing an extra 1 mana since they are creatures) and being 5/4 and can easily be turned to a creature. This is also good with LotV, in a way, well discarding creatures you dont need which were returned via Atheros is also value.

I'll probably go for 2-3 in the deck, combined with 3-4 Thalia's, 4 DRS, 3-4 tidehollow, maybe a Brimaz or 2. And if you want something for fun, put in a sac engine into the deck to abuse Atheros.