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[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Because a change in the deck makes sense only if it helps against the problematic match ups, so miracles and combo. Against combo a 4 mana sorcery is not the solution.
Against anything else 8rhinos are enough. So this is why miracles came up.
In my first post I said "in this meta", and this meta is full of counters. Lots of delvers, even show and derp decks and, surprise surprise, miracles.
NO may be good vs eldrazi and maybe (but I don't know) Shardless, I give you that.
Now, what about miracles? NO is the worst card ever in the match up. That's no secret to the entire Source. Everybody tried to explain this to you in the other thread, if I'm not mistaken.
On top of that you said that you don't mind sacrificing VE, so I assume that's what you want to do. Otherwise are you really sacrificing a rhino or atraxa (singletons on top of that) against a miracle player?? And if you don't play NO vs miracles (which is what you are supposed to do, so NOT playing NO) why are you even playing NO instead of 8rhinos or sneak fit? What are you actually improving in doing so?
Echelon mode: OFF
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
If SR was enough against everything else, then why does Nic Fit not have a huge advantage over the rest of the field?
Tell me how this build is not better than standard Nic Fit preboard against Miracles and Combo and most of the rest of the field as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Hammer
We have already established that preboard, NO is a great answer to Terminus because you don't need to play any other threats and can just wait for them to either lose in 1- 2 turns or use up their Terminus now while allowing you to retain all your remaining threats in your hand. It forces your opponents to use Terminus asap rather wait and hit multiple threats to blow you out of the game. If you already have board advantage, you should hold the NO and cast it after they blow up the board (all you need is a fetch land and 4 mana). NO allows for a quick recovery post Terminus giving the deck a fighting chance in situations where you otherwise would have gotten blown out.
Post board vs Miracles this deck looks very similar to the very best NO decks post board. How is that an argument against playing this list? Preboard matches matter too and that's where it outperforms others against Miracles. And it outperforms traditional lists both pre and postboard against most everything else.
A 4 mana sorcery by itself is not a solution to combo. But a 4 mana sorcery that speeds up your clock by a full two turns both pre and postboard and is only taking slots that used to belong to significantly slower threats absolutely assists the various anticombo cards in the deck both pre and post board.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Hammer
If SR was enough against everything else, then why does Nic Fit not have a huge advantage over the rest of the field?
You are not going to have a "huge advantage vs the field" unless you play the only tier 0 deck in the format.
I don't think anyone here has problems in beating non combo non miracles decks, beside lands.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Early NO into Ruric Thar is a very tempting idea to combat storm. Eldescale Wurm laughs at a few decks as well, that happen to be problematic. I've always wondered why NO hasn't been explored much. It gets around the ramp problem in similar way to 4cmc Sneak Attack. Except that sneak can hard-cast all fatties except emrakul.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
Early NO into Ruric Thar is a very tempting idea to combat storm. Eldescale Wurm laughs at a few decks as well, that happen to be problematic. I've always wondered why NO hasn't been explored much. It gets around the ramp problem in similar way to 4cmc Sneak Attack. Except that sneak can hard-cast all fatties except emrakul.
With 1 mana less you can extract tendrils for the insta concede
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
Early NO into Ruric Thar is a very tempting idea to combat storm. Eldescale Wurm laughs at a few decks as well, that happen to be problematic. I've always wondered why NO hasn't been explored much. It gets around the ramp problem in similar way to 4cmc Sneak Attack. Except that sneak can hard-cast all fatties except emrakul.
Ruric Thar is an awesome idea vs combo. To accommodate it, we may need to reconsider the white splash though and explore splashing red in the slots dedicated to white cards. The white splash is very light and isn't integral to the decks function but what else does red bring to the table to justify making this change. Huntmaster warrants a slot and possibly Chandra, Flamecaller but I'm not sold on punishing fire. 2 card combo for 3 mana for 2 damage recurring each turn seems slow relative to how it weakens the manabase, what matchups does it strengthen, just delver decks or does it help vs Miracles as well?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
We've done some testing of Natural Order before. This is what I can remember from the last time it came up.
- Against Storm, Reanimator and other fast combo, we can't really rely on it as a primary gameplan since we often won't live long enough to resolve our 4 mana sorceries. It's a fine secondary plan however, and probably better than slamming Rhinos and hoping we get there fast enough. Against combo decks with counterspells (UB Reanimator, Amalgam Dredge) it's just awful.
- Against Miracles it's nowhere near as good as it looks. We don't often get to a position where we can NO before turn three or four, which means they have time to get some of their defenses online, and if NO gets counterspelled we're in a really bad position. There's a reason Elves often goes for the grinding plan against Miracles rather than NO. In addition we have another problem here, which is that there isn't much in the way of NO targets that pressures them hard enough. None of our options really do much into Terminus (which is still a 2-for-1 since you sacrificed a creature for your fatty) and only Progenitus is good into Swords but he's completely uncastable which is a problem.
- Against D&T, Eldrazi and other denial strategies we have a reasonable amount of trouble resolving a NO (especially now that Warping Wail is around) and we don't have any targets that do what we want really. Progenitus is probably the closest again.
- Against midrange decks it's definitely at its best, since a lot of these don't have answers to a fatty and also don't have a fast enough clock to race. Lilianas from Jund can be a problem, same with Shardless's counterspells.
Basically, comparing to Sneak Attack, you gain:
- Easier secondary combo pieces (need Zenith or any creature, rather than Zenith or Empath or Bellower or Emrakul)
- Better against Revoker and Pithing Needle
- Lock out some decks with Elderscale or Ruric Thar
- Can play nonred if you want (but then you lose to combo decks)
Sneak attack gains:
- Better against sorcery speed removal (Liliana, often Terminus, Deluge)
- Don't get 2-for-1ed by countermagic including Warping Wail
- Faster clock once you've gone off - oneshot potential with Bellower and Emrakul
- Fewer dead cards in deck, since Emrakul + Inferno Titan covers almost all matchups
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobmans
Great job!
The PFire list remains to be my favorite deck and i bring it into competitive environments from time to time. Most of the matchup's are grindy and go into extra time. It always surprises me that the deck can manoeuvre thru many difficult situations and can get back from very negative board states. Also, this would be one of the decks that has a positive match-up against miracles.
If it weren't for the little time i have to actually play these days, i'd probably push this deck for more results.
I do, however, keep track of an updated list that is parked in my signature. The specific list is a red heavy list supporting
Stormbreath Dragon and
Chandra, Flamecaller.
There is argument to play a less red heavy list and drop the dragons/chandra for more consistency. One could also argue to run
Thrun, the Last Troll in combination with
Kessig Wolf Run. Which might also trigger the use of
The Gitrog Monster, not that i would, but it is nice that there is room for tweaking and tooling.
But, in it's core i would probably settle for something like:
4x
Grove of the Burnwillows1x
Phyrexian Tower1x
Volrath's Stronghold3x
Forest2x
Swamp1x
Mountain1x
Taiga1x
Badlands2x
Bayou4x
Verdant Catacombs2x
Wooded Foothills4x
Veteran Explorer1x
Scavenging Ooze1x
Deathrite Shaman1x
Eternal Witness1x
Courser of Kruphix1x
Tireless Tracker1x
Huntmaster of the Fells1x
Thragtusk1x
Primeval Titan3x
Liliana of the Veil2x
Nissa, Vital Force3x
Sensei's Divining Top4x
Green Sun's Zenith4x
Cabal Therapy3x
Abrupt Decay3x
Punishing Fire3x
Pernicious Deed
Do you have a sideboard to recommend for this?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
Do you have a sideboard to recommend for this?
//fixed
2x Slaughter Games
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
1x Pithing Needle
1x Golgari Charm
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Reclamation Sage
//flex
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
2x Blood Moon
1x Extirpate
Chandra > Miracles
BMoon > Lands, Eldrazi
Extirpate > Lands, Br Reanimator
Never change something in the fixed category, depending on the meta we change the flex slots to what is needed most.
I swapped Garruk Relentless in this case since maindeck Nissa is already doing what he did and Chandra has a more impact.
Red offers some additional cards to choose from like: pyroblast/reb, Ruination/From the Ashes, etc.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
On NO... It's a horrible plan. Nic Fit is a far worse NO deck than Elves!. And even w/ Elves!, T2 Ruric Thar is not realistic. So how do you figure it'll work in Nic Fit..? Planning to drop it around T4 isn't going to cut it vs. Storm. On CT vs. Miracles - yeah, Counterbalance isn't a card. On NO solving problems Nic Fit has - no, it doesn't. Progenitus falls to Terminus all the same.
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[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
On NO... It's a horrible plan. Nic Fit is a far worse NO deck than Elves!. And even w/ Elves!, T2 Ruric Thar is not realistic. So how do you figure it'll work in Nic Fit..? Planning to drop it around T4 isn't going to cut it vs. Storm. On CT vs. Miracles - yeah, Counterbalance isn't a card. On NO solving problems Nic Fit has - no, it doesn't. Progenitus falls to Terminus all the same.
So...have I done a good enough job in impersonating you today? Have I shattered his opinions hard enough? [emoji12]
I also have been thinking about cutting Garruk. He is good but not as good as Nissa. Maybe I'll replace him with prime time, which counts as a threat vs Miracles (2T).
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Hammer
I don't understand the logic in playing Pod over NO. Both need you to sink 4 mana and sac a creature but one gets you a relatively minor threat that you can gradually upgrade over several turns by sinking more mana into, and the other gets you an unblockable unkillable 10/10 on turn 3 that will win you the game turn 4/5.
As for the Atraxa lists, rather then stretching the mana base to support 4 colors just to play a threat that is easy to kill and that you can't cheat into play, wouldn't it be better to just play NO to consistently cheat a Progenitus into play on turn 3? I would be open to playing both cards together though.
Also wondering about PtE vs. StP. Is there a compelling argument that one is superior in most cases? Am I correct to think PtE is better here as a 4 of and StP is better when playing less than 4?
You're not out anything if Pod gets countered, and Stifle is a lot less common. Furthermore, any good Pod list gives multiple bodies/creature so even Stifle doesn't trade for a card. NO on the other hand is very risky.
You invest 2 cards in it up front, and then if they have a way to deal with whatever you tutor up, you're down 3 cards. In a grindy matchup you just wind up hemmoraging value, and cause yourself to lose through card disadvantage. It's not like Progenitus is difficult to deal with. Liliana does it for 3 mana, Edict does it for 2.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Brael Have you developed a Crop Rotation package that you've found to be of your liking? I recently tried a Crop Rotation package consisting of Crop Rotation x2, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, Karakas, Maze of Ith and a Bojuka Bog in the SB.
I've been on the fence with Maze, also have you tried Treetop Village?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fonzdizon
@Brael Have you developed a Crop Rotation package that you've found to be of your liking? I recently tried a Crop Rotation package consisting of Crop Rotation x2, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, Karakas, Maze of Ith and a Bojuka Bog in the SB.
I've been on the fence with Maze, also have you tried Treetop Village?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rock-fit-2/
That's the current list, if you go back a couple pages I listed some SB strategies which include how you shift the land toolbox around for various matchups. To answer your question without clicking the link though I'm currently using
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Ash Barrens
3 Bayou
5 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
As my MB with 2 Crop Rotation. Really, I think I need 1 more land because Maze is more a spell slot than a land slot.
In the SB there's
3 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
1 Crop Rotation
I've been happy enough with this configuration so far. The Maze feels to me like a necessary evil, I don't particularly like it but when it's good it's great. So basically, the same as you except I don't have room for the Bojuka Bog.
I've tried Treetop Village, it was too slow. I've been finding that Crop Rotation is a high enough risk play that you need a payoff right away which is something most creature lands don't offer.
In game 1's, Crop Rotation into Tower has been my strongest play by far. In SB games, it's been somewhat easy to assemble Marit Lage.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
They don't have too many wincons. I preferably name Jace as my first target for Lost Legacy since that's the threat we have the hardest time answering.
On a sidenote - Lost Legacy is pretty funny vs. a lot of decks. Yesterday I tested it vs. D&T. Target #1: Batterskull, target #2: Swords to Plowshares. Threat neutralized!
Lost Legacy says nonartifact. You can't get Batterskull with it, unfortunately.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
So...have I done a good enough job in impersonating you today? Have I shattered his opinions hard enough? [emoji12]
I also have been thinking about cutting Garruk. He is good but not as good as Nissa. Maybe I'll replace him with prime time, which counts as a threat vs Miracles (2T).
You've made me proud! :laugh:
Edit (a day later): I just saw the Echelon mode: off-bit. You cracked me up!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtomicTacos
Lost Legacy says nonartifact. You can't get Batterskull with it, unfortunately.
Missed that. Guess that means I owe a buddy of mine an apology, lol.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Did anyone go to GP Louisville?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
So...have I done a good enough job in impersonating you today? Have I shattered his opinions hard enough? [emoji12]
I also have been thinking about cutting Garruk. He is good but not as good as Nissa. Maybe I'll replace him with prime time, which counts as a threat vs Miracles (2T).
I have a Garruk Relentless in the Sideborad now for Miracles and I have a Nissa in main.
Should I add another Nissa in sideborad instead?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganfar
I have a Garruk Relentless in the Sideborad now for Miracles and I have a Nissa in main.
Should I add another Nissa in sideborad instead?
What colours are you playing?
In white I'd rather have a sideboard Sorin, LOI or a Kaya. In red I'd go with Chandra, Flamecaller. Blue probably gets Garruk, although you could give Ashiok a shot.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
What colours are you playing?
In white I'd rather have a sideboard Sorin, LOI or a Kaya. In red I'd go with Chandra, Flamecaller. Blue probably gets Garruk, although you could give Ashiok a shot.
Junk build.
Why do you think Sorin, LOI is better then Garruk Relentless?
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[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Sorin LOI is better than garruk imo, because he can kill jace through his ultimate. I don't play LOI because I play 2 Grim Nemesis in the side already. GN can also vindicate JTMS and is overall stronger.
I think that, to be playable against miracles (and let's face it, we want to leverage advantage through planeswalkers pretty much only against miracles, other than vs fringe decks) a PW has to deal with JTMS.
Nissa and both sorins do that already very well and fast. Garruk and elspeth sort of do that, but only after many turns in which we only hope that they can't reset a board full of tokens with terminus.
Garruk/elspeth are good also in midrange matchup as well, but against those decks rhino/Sigarda win already.
At the moment, having miracles in mind, I play 2 nissa and 2 Sorin GN in my 75. I think they are the best in junk colors in that matchup.
I haven't liked kaya at all. She can't deal with Jace, and that is the thing that make me not want to play her. In the midrange match up garruk and elspeth are better imo because they help to stabilise the board in a more powerful way through a lot of tokens.
I have been questioning the need of garruk lately: he is good but I don't know if he's good enough against miracles because he is kinda slow. Someone has opinions on the matter or can make some suggestions?
I'd like to try in junk prime time as a late game 2T combo enabler. He is good in jund already so why not.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
Sorin LOI is better than garruk imo, because he can kill jace through his ultimate. I don't play LOI because I play 2 Grim Nemesis in the side already. GN can also vindicate JTMS and is overall stronger.
I think that, to be playable against miracles (and let's face it, we want to leverage advantage through planeswalkers pretty much only against miracles, other than vs fringe decks) a PW has to deal with JTMS.
Nissa and both sorins do that already very well and fast. Garruk and elspeth sort of do that, but only after many turns in which we only hope that they can't reset a board full of tokens with terminus.
Garruk/elspeth are good also in midrange matchup as well, but against those decks rhino/Sigarda win already.
At the moment, having miracles in mind, I play 2 nissa and 2 Sorin GN in my 75. I think they are the best in junk colors in that matchup.
I haven't liked kaya at all. She can't deal with Jace, and that is the thing that make me not want to play her. In the midrange match up garruk and elspeth are better imo because they help to stabilise the board in a more powerful way through a lot of tokens.
I had a discussion on the deadguy thred with tescrin. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...idant)/page269
I think Kaya is better to grind miracels but can't deal with Jace. I feel the same.
Sorin GN seems awesome but I would rather to have a 4 mana planeswalker then 6 mana.
One thing Garruk can do that Sorin SOI can't, kill a Mentor outside ulti.
I like Sorin LOI so I can put him in the sideboard.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gth842s
Did anyone go to GP Louisville?
I went with Sneak Fit.
In the main I had a bye and also a no-show in the last round, but actual wins against BUG Delver, Maverick, and Junk Fit. Losses due to Elves, Grixis Delver, and 2 Sneak n Show.
Against Elves I won game 1 (which seems very unlikely), then punted game 2 - he had only lands in play, including Dryad Arbor and Pendelhaven. I cast Inferno Titan and only assigned one damage to the Arbor, and he responded by pumping it. He went on to have a game-winning glimpse chain on his next turn and the Dryad was essential.
One Sneak/Show opponent, I was able to put in Sneak while he put in Grisel, and then double bolt him for the win after he decided to draw 7. Matchup seems very tough and there was a LOT of it in the GP I believe - I'm surprised that the amount of DnT didn't seem to hate it out. Grixis I got Delver'ed out game 1 and then had some very poor hands game 2.
I changed my main -1 Primeval Titan, +1 Nissa VF for a challenge event Sunday (PrimeTime to side replacing a Blood Moon that I let a friend borrow). I was able to go 3-1, beating Miracles, Shardless, and DnT, losing to Eldrazi (Thorn of Amethyst on turn 1 game 2 just recked my Therapy-GSZ for Vet-Therapy line of play). Deck felt great against all those. The Eldrazi opponent was actually the same no-show player from round 9 in Day 1, so it was nice to actually get to play her.
Had a sick game 3 against Miracles. My turn 1 I cast 2 Carpet of Flowers since he led with an Island, Top. My turn 2 I cast Sneak Attack. My turn 3 I sneak in Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan, and Emrakul :laugh:
I did not miss the Punishing Fire package at all, really enjoyed having Bolts against pretty much all matchups. My next deck change will probably be -1 Meren +1 Tracker, going to 2 Tracker in the main. Tracker overperformed. If Sneak/Show continues to have a strong showing, then I might add another To the Slaughter or a 3rd Thoughtseize. Sad that my 2 Surgical 1 Faerie in the sideboard never got used since I never faced Reanimator.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hi,
I'm playing the 4C Atraxa Fit (Junk with splash U for Atraxa and Leovold), and the D&T MU is real hard for me, mainly because they play Prelate @3 blocking :
- my Pernicious deed MD
- my Maelstrom pulse MD
- my Toxic deluge post SB
- my Engineered plague post SB
So i searched for a solution, which mana cost isn't 3, and i saw Yahenni's expertise but i think it's not good enough in the Eldrazi MU (only -3/-3).
So i'll give a try to Languish !
Here's my updated list for discussion :
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=493486
Let's discuss !
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Played a set against D&T using my GB build. It's a bad deck to try out the Dark Depths combo against, but even without that it did really well. Even better, they were on a build with Mirran Crusaders and I didn't really have trouble with them. Nissa is pretty amazing against D&T.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grokh
Try gaze of granite
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grokh
Massacre is a great SB card for DnT.
If you want something for the maindeck, I'd say you might want to just cut down on the sweepers and run other options. Jitte is really great against DnT and IMO it's worth it in Atraxa even if you aren't running Stoneforge, although I personally run SFM also.
My preference for the Eldrazi matchup is extra Thragtusks (also good against Burn and Miracles) or Glissa if they're super popular.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
Massacre is a great SB card for DnT.
If you want something for the maindeck, I'd say you might want to just cut down on the sweepers and run other options. Jitte is really great against DnT and IMO it's worth it in Atraxa even if you aren't running Stoneforge, although I personally run SFM also.
My preference for the Eldrazi matchup is extra Thragtusks (also good against Burn and Miracles) or Glissa if they're super popular.
I know Massacre is a great card against D&T, but i really wanted to find a card which is not good ONLY vs D&T, but good vs Eldrazi too.
Massacre seemed too much D&T-oriented for me as Glissa, the traitor seemed too much Eldrazi-centered
That's why I spoke about Languish which seems good in the both MUs IMO
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grokh
I know
Massacre is a great card against D&T, but i really wanted to find a card which is not good ONLY vs D&T, but good vs Eldrazi too.
Massacre seemed too much D&T-oriented for me as
Glissa, the traitor seemed too much Eldrazi-centered
That's why I spoke about
Languish which seems good in the both MUs IMO
I'd rather just play Damnation. Kills Reality Smasher too.
Seriously though, Jitte is a house.
I can also see both decks having serious trouble with Peacekeeper although he does cost 3 again.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
I'd rather just play Damnation. Kills Reality Smasher too.
Seriously though, Jitte is a house.
I can also see both decks having serious trouble with
Peacekeeper although he does cost 3 again.
Yep Damnation kills Reality smasher too, but i like Languish cos we can keep some of our creatures alive like a Rhino, Sigarda or Primeval Titan in my case
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
I went with Sneak Fit.
In the main I had a bye and also a no-show in the last round, but actual wins against BUG Delver, Maverick, and Junk Fit. Losses due to Elves, Grixis Delver, and 2 Sneak n Show.
Against Elves I won game 1 (which seems very unlikely), then punted game 2 - he had only lands in play, including Dryad Arbor and Pendelhaven. I cast Inferno Titan and only assigned one damage to the Arbor, and he responded by pumping it. He went on to have a game-winning glimpse chain on his next turn and the Dryad was essential.
One Sneak/Show opponent, I was able to put in Sneak while he put in Grisel, and then double bolt him for the win after he decided to draw 7. Matchup seems very tough and there was a LOT of it in the GP I believe - I'm surprised that the amount of DnT didn't seem to hate it out. Grixis I got Delver'ed out game 1 and then had some very poor hands game 2.
I changed my main -1 Primeval Titan, +1 Nissa VF for a challenge event Sunday (PrimeTime to side replacing a Blood Moon that I let a friend borrow). I was able to go 3-1, beating Miracles, Shardless, and DnT, losing to Eldrazi (Thorn of Amethyst on turn 1 game 2 just recked my Therapy-GSZ for Vet-Therapy line of play). Deck felt great against all those. The Eldrazi opponent was actually the same no-show player from round 9 in Day 1, so it was nice to actually get to play her.
Had a sick game 3 against Miracles. My turn 1 I cast 2 Carpet of Flowers since he led with an Island, Top. My turn 2 I cast Sneak Attack. My turn 3 I sneak in Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan, and Emrakul :laugh:
I did not miss the Punishing Fire package at all, really enjoyed having Bolts against pretty much all matchups. My next deck change will probably be -1 Meren +1 Tracker, going to 2 Tracker in the main. Tracker overperformed. If Sneak/Show continues to have a strong showing, then I might add another To the Slaughter or a 3rd Thoughtseize. Sad that my 2 Surgical 1 Faerie in the sideboard never got used since I never faced Reanimator.
Couldn't P-Fire have helped against Elves? They can definitely draw better than P-Fire but it's been important in the games where I've beaten elves with Sneak.
Also, and you probably knew this and just had some bad draws, but if I know I'm playing against Show and Tell, I'll mulligan a little more aggressively looking for empath / Emrakul so mine gets to attack first.
Can you describe situation(s) where Tracker overperformed and how? It's a great card, just curious which matchups and situations it really shined for you.
Lastly, how was Blood Moon?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gth842s
Couldn't P-Fire have helped against Elves? They can definitely draw better than P-Fire but it's been important in the games where I've beaten elves with Sneak.
Also, and you probably knew this and just had some bad draws, but if I know I'm playing against Show and Tell, I'll mulligan a little more aggressively looking for empath / Emrakul so mine gets to attack first.
Can you describe situation(s) where Tracker overperformed and how? It's a great card, just curious which matchups and situations it really shined for you.
Lastly, how was Blood Moon?
P Fire is only better if you happen to also draw a Grove. Against Elves you really want a mix of sweeper + cheap single target removal. Removing an initial 2-3 elves and then stalling for a couple of turns without continuous interaction will kill you. I also have had good success with PFire against them, but I'm thinking that Bolts do -almost- as well. Typically removing their first guy will give you time to get to enough mana for Deed, and the 2 Pyroclasms should do the same. Then you just have to continue to control the board. I need more testing against the deck for sure.
I definitely don't mulligan as aggressively as I should. Agree there. It would help my combo matchups. They go to a Through the Breach/Sneak Attack plan games 2 and 3 if they see any of our spice in game 1.
Tracker was great against junk fit, shardless, dnt from what I remember. Couple of times I decided to get him into play instead of Empath, and was not let down. One game I drew 10 cards from him. Great for any grindy game and doesn't rely on the graveyard, can also come down early. Quickly grows to block goyf or angler from what I've seen. He's also a decent clock against combo if you have them slowed down enough, and helps draw into more disruption. At least that's my idea.
Blood Moon I boarded in only a couple of times, and the one time I had in hand, it won me the game against BUG delver, locking them out of the game and saving me from a very bad board position. Unsure if I want to keep it in.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@grokh: PtE..? Combine it w/ Golgari Charm to sweep their x/1's (Mother of Runes, obviously, etc.). Works quite well.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gth842s
Did anyone go to GP Louisville?
I went and day 2'd with 4c rhinos. Ill give a quick report and a more detailed one later but I ended up going 8-7 kinda disappointingly but still happy for my first gp performance!
Matchups:
RG Lands Win
Enchantress Win
Jund depths pox thing Win
Grixis Delver Win
Mono R painter Loss
Miracles Loss
Food Chain Loss
Dnt Win
Infect Win
Miracles Loss
Burn Win
Dredge Win
Caleb scherer on Storm quickest loss of my life
Miracles Loss
Storm Loss I was soooo close to winning this one it hurt
So the only deck I played multiples of was miracles and storm which was pretty frustrating seeing how the top 100 meta was SnS and delver/leovold decks which I think we would roll the leovold decks and I personally had hella cards for SnS decks more than any other combo deck. On top of playing a lot of different decks I had never before played painter or food chian which hurt.
Other thoughts
2 Nissa was the best thing ever. Card is literally amazing in most matchups and multiples of her arent dead.
2 kaya was pretty sweet and she won me the game vs infect and was in general always good as she is just so versatile there is always a use for her in every matchups, although when you start having to kill with her it gets a little weird.
I need to test more against mentor miracles(my friend that plays it hates it so not much experience) as I won every 2/3 pre board games against them and then lost every post board game due to turn 3 clique followed by mentor(seriously every game and I think only 1 of them the player made any game actions that werent land drops before casting the clique. Was super frustrating).
Was a blast to play and day 2. Moving forward im unsure of what I would really do differently with the deck as I really liked the configuration of removal/threats/walkers and playing the 4c for leovold was so worth it as he was amazing against storm and enchantress and some of the miracles matches.
List for reference
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Siege Rhino
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Vindicate
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grokh
The match up in my experience comes down more to keeping their mothers and their equipment off of the table because if neither of those are on the table you can path/decay/pulse/deed at your own pace and they will eventually die. Cards like golari charm are really good against them but prelate on 3 will always be a bitch. If i was looking for a card I would look for more playable -1/-1 effects rather than wrath effect as well already play the best possible ones.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
7 4-drops, 3 5-drops. That list is so top heavy. And no DRS (whilst needing 4 colours) to boot.
Out of curiosity (and please be honest): Did the manabase ever crap out on you?
And on D&T - you want your effects to be as cheap as possible, not to be more expensive. We're still playing Legacy after all. And D&T still does a good deal of mana denial. W/ Thalia, you need 5 mana for a Wrath. Add in a Rishadan Port and you're up to 6. 3 or 4 for a Golgari Charm and 2 (since you can cast it at instant speed, so screw Port) for a PtE is a lot easier to do.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I basically play the same 4c list except -2 kaya - 1 ooze + 1 drs + 1 Steve (I like him to fetch island) + tracker
I like thy list a lot, even the 3ts 3 ll in the side which help a lot against combo, but I disagree about kaya: she is the most cuttable 4 drop, and as echelon said with no further acceleration the list seems top heavy. But hey, I wasn't the one to day 2 a GP
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mstephenson
2 kaya was pretty sweet and she won me the game vs infect and was in general always good as she is just so versatile there is always a use for her in every matchups, although when you start having to kill with her it gets a little weird.
Do you won with just Kaya aganist infect or was she only a wincon after you stop the infect player?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
So, i finally found a card to test which seems good vs D&T and Eldrazi too :
Tsabo's decree
It's instant, and i often have 6 manas against D&T when the game is long. The fact it's instant allows me to cast it in response to multiple Rishadan port activations and the card empty their board and hand, by naming Human !
Gonna test this on my next tournaments !
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
If their mana denial is successful you'll never get to 6.
