My site's been around for a year now. Here's an article reflecting on the past year and looking forward to the next.
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My site's been around for a year now. Here's an article reflecting on the past year and looking forward to the next.
Stoneblade is a tricky matchup I believe. That is also one of the reasons why I was hesitant to play Death and Taxes right after the ban. I played against Esper Stoneblade before the ban and got beaten pretty bad, they have a lot of cards to 2-for-1 you all the time (Engineered Explosives, Lingering Souls, Jitte and postboard Zealous Persecution). Especially with Swords and Fatal Push and Snapcaster it really is capable of grinding you out. They also have a catch all answer in Council's Judgment, the extremely annoying True Name Nemesis and the Stoneforge package as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by azeotropes
I did sideboard incorrectly back then, but the key plan is obviously to lock them down as good as possible, cards like Thalia (which I boarded out because I thought I want to resolve Council's Judgment and Gideons) are actually super important to make Snapcaster more inefficient.
Sword of Light and Shadow can help to plow through SFM and Spirit tokens and you can also consider dedicating a slot in your board for Manriki Gusari. I have only played Stoneblade once so far and f'ed that one up, so I don't have a real sample size so far, but the matchup does feel bad.
@Phil: you deserve a lot of praise for your site. I actually read someone recommend it on another site when D+T came up.
@Adan: I don't think I ever once beat Esper Blade, or maybe just once. But I feel the same as you. It is the worst of the blue-centric matchups. I recall thinking that my opponent seemed to strangely have such good tools to handle me - every time. And I never really got around to solving the deck because it is not quite mainstream. But graveyard hate seems well placed here.
I fully agree with it being one of the worst blue-centric matchups, my thoughts on it is that having access to BS, Ponder to find SFM is really strong in the matchup. I tend to describe a lot like a 1 sided DnT mirror matchup where they find SFM more consistently and have more removal to prevent our own equipment from getting the job done. However, I personally have never been a fan of bringing in graveyard hate against snapcaster based decks. Rest in peace and surgical, both seem like card disadvantage to me in the matchup where we are on the beatdown plan (at least that is how I try to play it). I would rather have my creatures and or removal (sadly CJ cause you know TNN will come ruin your day if you don't).Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
I would love to here you reasoning for graveyard hate and others' feelings on the matchup and boarding plans.
I'm not sure if he means Esper Blade or Deathblade; but if you see Deathrite's, obviously RiP becomes much better. The main second thing it hits are Lingering Souls, which IME are pretty good against D&T if Thalia isn't killing your mana.
Yea I was working off the Esper Blade matchup, I actually think the Esper Deathblade matchup is easier than straight Esper. Yea you are right with RiP being better if Mr. 1 mana planeswalker is involved. Souls is pretty good against us, we can't even use flickerwisp to fly over them :(Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
I don't think I've ever lost a match to Esper (with or without drs) in a tournament. It's a very tricky match-up, but not as bad as UWR blade or Bant deathblade. Esper is a very mana hungry deck, which is often the best angle of tackling it. It has better cards and removal than D&T (as a virtue of playing 3-4 colors), but it has no vial and lower threat and answer density than us. They do have the cantrips to sculpt their hands with the right threats and answers, but that costs mana and time, both of which D&T is very good at denying. You can also beat them in the longer game post side by boarding in devastating hate such as manriki-gusari, gideon or cataclysm/armageddon.
I wouldn't board in Rest in Peace, as it only marginally affects their cards and does little to address the most serious dangers the deck poses (i.e. equipment in combination with true-name and/or lingering souls, planeswalkers and devastating sweepers such as zealous persecution and engineered explosives). I would board out plows in exchange for more flexible removal that can hit true-names and a few moms to compensate for their sweepers coming in.
Well, the matchup against different Stoneblade variants is quite hard IMO. I still loose a lot against them but luckily for me that day was great in all aspects. Sometimes I just won trough the bomb-after-bomb plan going deep in the card advantage mode, others I managed to keep my opponent off his Jitte counters with some kind of creature lock, others they had a hard time with our mana denial plan... and for sure I faced no more than once or twice an early TNN wich is great for you to set up a clear gameplan without an early constant clock... and when these aspects are joined could be a pleasure to play against Stonebade decks for sure! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by azeotropes
Referring to my sideboard choices I really wanted the 2nd Prelate in my 75 because I expected a lot of Grixis Delver and Storm basically, and followed near by Sneak & Show/OmniShow decks and RG Lands, that I think is really popular there. I brought the 2nd vs UB Death's Shadow, Kevin King's 4C Control, 4C Loam, RG Lands and both UW and UWR Stoneblade decks. I changed a bit my sideboard plan against the 2nd 4C Control I believe.
I opted to go back to a couple of SB Palace Jailers looking the raise of Miracles on MTGO and thinking that old-Miracles experts were going to run the deck they're most comfortable with again seeing that it's quite good and solid. In addition, I really like Palace Jailer over another Gideon, Ally of Zendikar because you can drop him through Vial or Cavern and gives you some kind of versatility against decks not reached by the walker like BG Turbo Depths, Lands, Sneak & Show or even Reanimator, what is really thankful in such a large event. As with Prelate, I value a lot those kind of cards that are OK/great vs different strategies and in different game types for large events... That's what I try with every card in my sideboard.
I believe I boarded them in vs both Depths.deck, 4C Loam, RG Lands, both UW and UWR Stoneblade, D&T mirror (just 1) and BUG Delver "Malimujo version" (just 1 as well).
As a player of both the new Miracles and Death & Taxes, I will say that the best card vs the Miracles deck is a modest Sanctum Prelate for 1. Palace Jailer is fine, but swingy. The new Miracles is on 3x Mentors on average right now and that is the scariest card to play against when you have a monarch emblem in play. If the average number of Mentors goes down to two, I will jump at the chance to play Jailer.
Also, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben + Karakas is far more annoying to play against compared to Miracles of the old.
43 player tournamet today, went 4-2 playing almost the same list as my last tournament, only with palace jailer instead of gideon in the side (can be found some pages back).
R1: Burn 2-0.
New player, made some mistakes and then this is an easy match-up.
R2: White Eldrazi 1-2.
This would have been winable, but I had to mull to 5 game 1 into a land with two vials and he had chalice on the play. Game 2, he lands Eldrazi Displacer + Containment Priest, but I have two Flickerwisp to abuse his priest and win with equipment. Game 3 goes the same way when he shuts off vial with priest and I use flickerwisp to deal with Reality Smasher, but then I topdeck 5 land and a vial in a row, while he has smuggler's copter which helps him find reality smasher and thought-knot seer for the win.
R3: Budget Infect 2-0.
Game 1 he missplays allowing me to stabilize with Recruiter for Pontiff, followed by jitte at 9 poison. Game 2 Judge's Familiar can come in with jitte and counters a critical berserk.
R4: Burn 2-1.
Very tight games. Game 1 I punt and lose, not attacking with jitte on mother and not blocking his biggest swiftspear. Game 2 I steal by playing conservatively with batterskull, blanking his smash to smithereens. Game 3 I can race him with flyers despite flooding out because I can surprise block a swiftspear with avenger, plow a harsh mentor and port him as much as possible while still playing around price of progress.
R5: Grixis control 0-2.
Didn't stand anything ressembling a chance. I probably misboarded by not putting rest in peace in, but even then it still seems like an absolutely horrible match-up. Game 1 he plays probe with 2 therapy and 2 kolaghan's command, leaving me with nothing. Game 2 he goes probe into therapy again, then I die to kolaghan's command, snap kolaghan's command, toxic deluge, sudden demise and fatal push (not in that order, but still).
R6: TES 2-0.
We both mull and keep apparently bad hands (me no hate, he only hate), but I manage to beat him to death with wisps before he can go off and after he therapy's my stoneforges away. Game 2 he therapy's both thalia and canonist away as I'm stuck on 1 mana. I do land stoneforge for batterskull, coming in for two hits. He can't manage to combo off properly for 14 storm and dies to his own ad nauseam.
White eldrazi match-up was just bad luck, this would be quite do-able normally. But Grixis control seemed quite problematic. Might be better when boarding in rest in peace, as they do rely a lot on snapcaster and therapy and it hurts angler. Might also be worth it to consider playing Gideon again or something with both pro black and pro red, but not sure if the deck will be common enough to warrant this. Mirran Crusader is quite the problem for them, as a lot of their removal is black-based.
Don't say I didn't tell you guys that Light and Shadow is legit :rolleyes: [just little sidenote, keep in mind your MOM cant target your creature holding the sword, might be relevant]Quote:
Originally Posted by Emurian
Regarding stoneblade decks, the way I always approached them is: They might have better card selection, and a more consistent hand, but we have more creatures, and maindeck answers to negate their first SFM drop [Revoker]
Most of the fair blue decks share the same ''problem'' they have a creature count of 15 orso on average versus the 26 of us due to the card selection that they added with blue
Its more a battle of endurance, because they need to dig for their threaths they focus more on removing stuff on the board early. Thus it means that you should just keep dumping creatures on the board untill they are out of removal. Likewise, if they land a creature, and you happen being able to remove it early [STP or Path] then it tends to buy you a turn as they need to dig again for another threat.
They don't like our flyers, so if they leave a flyer of yours alive its a good indication that they have 0 removal on hand at that point.
There was a period at my shop where I saw an uptick in decks wielding equipment, if you can make a somewhat educated guess that 20% of the field is using equipment please do yourself a favor and slot Manriki in your sideboard.
The only shitty part is if they get an active jitte online before we do, the only decent way out of that g1 is either vialing in revoker, or going vial > wisp > jitte and then A: Connect with yours if its on the field, B: Hardcast revoker.
Just don't expand the board beyond 3 creatures unless you feel urged to close the gap fast. [Miracle style tactic sort to say]
I will say you weren't the first. We played SoFI+SoLS+Jitte before Batterskull was printed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emurian
Same here, Replaced the SoLaS with Batterskull shortly after it came out, undid the switch close to a year ago, got tired of Batterskull stuck in my hand and SoLaS can give pretty crazy CA with the critter recursion.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
I still think SoLaS isn't particularly good and to play it over batterskull is just bad. Late game it turns a 1/2 into a 4/4 lifelink vigilance and can also be equipped to any other creature to make them bigger than anything else. Batterskull should always be in the maindeck I feel and being frustrated that's it's stranded in hand sometimes is not a good enough reason to cut it. Trust me, I've been there
I was curious what people thought about having a DnT specific Discord or something. I know some other archtypes (eg Miracles) have them and I wondered if there would be enough interest in one that we could start one up. Lemme know what people think, or if there is already one that exists I will accept that I'm oblivious and ask for a link :rolleyes:
Someone emailed me about this awhile back and I never got around to a real reply. There's definitely a market for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by staticgripped
I am obviously late posting this, but I went to Cleveland and played in the Legacy Champs trial and finished 4-1. Figure it's worth reporting my results. Here was my list.
Creatures: (27)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Serra Avenger
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Spells: (11)
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands: (22)
9 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Flagstones of Trokair
Sideboard:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Council's Judgment
2 Containment Priest
1 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sanctum Prelate
As you can see I played something very similar to Calderon's GP winning list. I hadn't played Legacy in a while, really had only done commentary at a local Quest for Power in the past few months, and felt his list was really solid. I also wanted to try 22 lands since I was a firm believer of 23 and wanted to see if there was a noticeable difference. In the end I cut a Cavern for a Plains to increase white sources, Cut a Canopy for a Flagstones to still have non-basics to fight Massacre but not take damage or have them wastable, and changed the sideboard based on expectations and because I just disagreed with some of his choices. Tournament was 5 rounds roughly 50 people.
R1: vs. Lands W (2-0)
I've played lands dozens of times now and I know the matchup like the back of my hand. 2 Vials overpowered his loam hand, and a tiny misstep let me land Prelate on 2. Flickerwisp killed Marit Leige and the game was over.
SB:
In- 1 Sanctum Prelate, 2 RIP, 2 Surgical, 1 Needle, 1 Path
Out- 2 Mirran Crusader, 3 Plow, 1 Revoker, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Game two was standard fair. Turn 2 rest in peace, I have my needle for his maze of ith, I have wasteland to hold off his combo, I exile his Tabernacle and flood to board and he is just overwhelmed.
(1-0)
R2: vs. "Miracles" L (0-2)
I have been jamming games vs this deck non-stop lately. We aren't favored here. The addition of unexpectedly absent and the rise in predict to an auto 4-of makes this rough. Game one goes as planned for him. He kills my offense, lands a Jace on an empty board, rides it on home. Not close.
SB:
In- 1 Sanctum Prelate, 2 Council's Judgment, 1 Gideon, 1 Needle, 1 Sword of War and Peace
Out- 1 Mother of Runes, 4 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Umezawa's Jitte
I knew from last round overhearing him he wasn't on mentor so I didn't think any plows were necessary. He gets me though with containment priest, into force my council's judgment, into entreat for 3 back-to-back-to-back. Ended up sort of close, but not really.
(1-1)
R3: vs. 4C Waterfalls W (2-1)
This was my buddy who drove to the event in our 9 person caravan. My brother, him, and I all came for Legacy. Shame to play him at 1-1, but that's how it goes. Game one is brutal for him. I thrash him with 2 vials and a ton of threats. Stoneforge helps make everything a threat and another grabs batterkull. He has 2 Ancestrals on suspend at 2 when I recruiter for spirit and he packs it in.
SB:
In- 1 Path to Exile, 1 Gideon, 2 Council's Judgment
Out- 2 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Thalia, 1 Sanctum Prelate
My goal is to play defensively game two. Canonist isn't worth it since it only shuts off his 2 Bloodbraid Elves. Also Path is good since he has no basics. Game two I mull to six and keep a clunky hand that gets thoughtseize and hymn'd. 2 moms is a good defense, but not much of an offense. I also was stuck on port, wasteland, karakas so I couldn't cast all the sweet WW cards I was drawing. Anthony meanwhile had a ton of gas and eventually just overwhelmed me.
SB:
In- 1 Thalia
Out- 1 Mom
I was gonna do this regardless of how game two played out. I wanted to switch to more aggression on the play. All in all though I got a nut draw. Vial into stoneforge, put in mom, judgment your Leovold, Batterskull and Avenger arrive, next turn here's crusader, etc. Game ends with him having no creatures, 1 life, 3 lands, and me having a full board.
(2-1)
R4: vs. Esper Deathblade W (2-0)
I don't really even wanna talk about this match as much as I wanna talk about something I feel regarding Legacy and Magic in general. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I am about to say. Magic should be fun first and foremost, and people need to stop taking the game so seriously. Guy tried to rules shoot me all match and got me once in game 2 with Clique, targeting me and taking my 1 card when I had Spirit out. I forgot and said, "Draw?" and he didn't respond then smugly called judge when I did draw. I comprehend it's competitive REL, I comprehend that we all wanna win. I just feel, myself, that this game should be played with more integrity and with the main goal of having fun and playing an honest game of Magic. Just my 2 cents. I stomped him game one with SoFaI and squeaked out G2 with a timely Avenger to block Clique. Here's my sideboarding.
In- 2 Council's Judgment, 1 Sword of War and Peace, 1 Gideon, 1 Pithing Needle
Out- 1 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Mother of Runes, 1 Flickerwisp, 2 Mirran Crusader (I clearly am not 100% on boarding out here)
R5: vs. Burn ID (but still won 2-0)
We agreed to draw to split the tickets but we played anyway. Game one I stabilize at 10 life and stoneforge, Jitte, mom, thalia, really the whole crew dominate. I got a great draw here.
In- 1 Sanctum Prelate, 1 Sword of War and Peace, 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 2 Council's Judgment, 1 Path to Exile
Out- 2 Mirran Crusader, 1 Serra Avenger, 2 Phyrexian Revoker, 1 Sword of Fire and Ice, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Game two I get down Prelate with him stuck on one land and yet fall to 6 off of response bolt and searing blaze when he drew land (though I protected it with Flickerwisp). But I draw Jitte and run away with the game and end the weekend an unofficial 4-1
Final Record: (3-1-1)(officially) (4-1)
Had an absolute blast, was super pumped to play legacy again also. List felt awesome, need to test it more to know for sure some things. I don't like Sword but thought it was a good choice when looking around before the event. Would probably play either a second Gideon or maybe a Palace Jailer in the future. Spirit was actually solid and I never wished it was a Plains, because that would have been land 23 if I had had to make the choice. I would recommend my list to any DNT pilot and will say that I will probably be running 22 lands from here on out.
Final Thoughts:
-Legacy is great
-Community is great
-DNT community is great
-I still think SoLaS is mediocre at best
-Consistency of mono-white is great
staticgripped and I mentioned this last page, but it didn't get much attention. It's pretty clear that UW(r) control isn't going anywhere. What's the key here? Canonists and Spirits main would help control their 30 or so cantrips, but they're awfully squishy with multiple card types and low toughness. Do we go Gideon, and get blown out by the white Boomerang?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marungo
If we really wanna dedicate cards for this matchup then Armageddon is better now than it was against old miracles. And I guess cataclysm too though I've made clear my dislike for that card in the past. It just depends on how serious we wanna dedicate cards for this matchup. Cause cards like geddon are good in very very limited matchups other than MiraclesQuote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
I have gotten a couple PM's suggesting that having a Discord server would be a good idea, so I made one.
https://discord.gg/EqTF7y5
Currently I installed Scryfall bot, and have rooms for general, decklists, tournament_reports, pimp, and off_topic. If people want anything else be it integrating things or other rooms let me know. Invite any DnT players you know.
Marungo, I was your death blade opponent. How else did I "rules shoot" that match? As for the incident with Clique and SoL, I suggest you watch PVDDR's video about calling a judge. I usually call a judge on my opponents and will always call one on myself or my opponent when some sort of fix is necessary. This is a competitive REL event and every result greatly changes the amount of prize. While I believe you made an honest mistake, I have no way of actually knowing if you were cheating or not. Calling a judge so you get a warning tracked by the DCI is how we eventually find the actual cheaters, while honest players like us take our warnings when we mess up, but don't accumulate them. If you said "Draw?" I either missed it or you did so as you drew. Certainly, if it happened as you said, you should have said so to the judge; you did not. Also, this incident required a fix of shuffling the card into your deck, which should not be done without the judge's intervention. I hope you don't find this antagonistic, but I felt the need to defend myself and the practice of calling a judge.
As for your sideboarding decisions, every card you brought in is good, but so are the cards you removed. Mom is one of the scariest cards for me as an active Mother shuts down most means of interaction outside of sweepers (all I had was one Zealous) and TNN + equipment; I had to Force her game one as I didn't have removal. Crusader can be very good against Batterskull and Strix, but I did take out skull so maybe its just not cost efficient. Fliers are likely more important postboard because I'll have answers to SoFI so you need fliers or Mom to beat TNN in most cases.
I want to apologize. I have had very poor experiences in the past with opponents doing exactly as I mentioned and assumed that you were doing the same thing. I let my preconceived notions and my past experiences influence how I viewed the situation. Like I said, I have strong opinions regarding how magi should be played. Opinions I know aren't always 100% agreed upon. So I was under the false impression you called the judge when you did to get me a warning and tried to get me DQ'd. I've had it happen before that an opponent attempted this and told me as much after the fact. As such, I offer my sincerest apologies. I misread your intentions sir. And for that and more I am very sorry. It was my mistake and I own up to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by phg22
As for the boarding I agree that it's very tough. Mom is really great but if you have verdict or stuff like zealous persecution post-board I want to be threat dense. So many tough choices.
Always great to see more evidence that not all Legacy threads/communities/players are toxic.
It is usually common practice to board down to 2x Moms vs fair decks that use Black mana, only to avoid getting yourself 2-for-1ed too often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marungo
i have 3 trophies in legacy right now and they are all with this deck:
https://i.imgur.com/rb2beZ5.png
I've tried more normal versions, and while I'll admit that there's a lot of variance out there as far as how I perform in any one league with any one list, I keep coming back to this and it keeps doing well for me.
I think I'll be moving one palace jailer main over one mangara, not sure what I'll throw in the board in its place. The deck still feels like a very rough draft, but with how many tix its won me in the last couple weeks I'll be continuing to work on it.
Very cool; I like Eldrazi Displacer (fell in love with it during UW Eldrazi winter in modern) and it's always cool to see people putting up good results with it.
I agree that I'd prefer a palace jailer over mangara (who continues to always feel too slow for my liking)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smutko
Have you ever actually cast Devout Lightcaster? I feel like the card wouldn't even see play if it were 1WW, simply because there aren't enough relevant black permanents in the format.
Nope, I'll probably take it back out. Put it in for this league and never used it. I was thinking I'd like it against all the flavors of grixis that are running around at the moment, but the casting cost is a bit prohibitive. I wonder if this guy could be decent. I didn't know that card existed until I started scouring gatherer just now. Having a way to answer toxic deluge seems pretty sweet to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Most relevant black spells are cast before turn 4, which would be the first time that guy even comes online. The bigger issue with utility creatures like that guy is that if they have to tap to use their ability, then you don't get to attack with them / you get no guaranteed value off them if they're killed on the spot.
DnT's best creatures have tended to be ones with static abilities or ETB effects, Mom being the obvious exception. Even Mangara (who I think is a more generically powerful card than that dude) doesn't see much play anymore.
Has anybody been playing Enevoldesen's Ancient Tomb list lately? I just want to know what common problems people have been dealing with. Also, stuff like whether Containment Priest and/or Eldrazi Displacer have felt subpar/win-more.
I admit, I saw the list and now I really wanna go out and buy a playset of Chalices to implement into my RW Taxes.
Played Wb last night in a simple 4 round 20ish player tournament.
I have been playing it for the last few weeks. I am down to 22 lands 3 fetches 1 scrubland and Two Serra Avenger and an Orzhov Pontiff main and one in side with a Kambal in the side.
On a whim I brought Kambal in against Czetch Pile. It was surprising. With Karakas, and a Mom they have no real way to remove it and when they try it is a 12 point life swing. The match was slow enough that the life gain and loss are real. He ended up doing about 14 points of damage or so. The pressure it generated allowed me to live through a land flood (draw about 5-6 in a row).
Tiny sample mind you, but I am much liking the 22 lands. Even with it I still flooded 4 games.
Below is the full list:
Lands 22
5 Plains
3 Flooded Strand
1 Scrubland
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karaks
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
Creatures 27
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Flickerwisp
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Serra Avenger
2 Mirrian Crusader
Artifacts 7
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Jitte
Spells 4
4 Swords to Plowshares
Side 15
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Gideon, Ally of Zenikar
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Council Judgement
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Pithing Needle
Played Wb
Kambal is a very good card and should come in vs basically all Brainstorm decks.
'The guy who won the GP ran 22 lands - maybe we should all experiment with 22 lands' is something I expected to happen but it's not good logic. It's already been tried. 22 lands isn't enough for this deck. We've all lost games to flooding, we've just lost more games to mana screw. If you're playing a splash and a ton of 3 drops you have even more reason to want 24 lands, not just 23.
Im not a great number cruncher, but is it not possible that some builds would run just fine with 22 lands, such as a build that focuses on keeping a lower curve by running more Spirits and Revokers and cutting the Recruiters. Does anyone know how many lands you would want to hit 2 by turn two and not necessarily hit 3 until turn 4-5?
The problem with that kind of math is that:
a. Wasteland exists, people play it.
b. Also...we play it, which usually means we're playing fewer than 23 'real lands', even though we use Wasteland for mana far more than a Delver deck does.
c. Also we play Aether Vial, which totally messes up manabase math.
In legacy, there's a huge difference between having 2 lands in play and having 2 basic lands in play. If your two opening lands are a Karakas and a Rishadan Port, you're actually in a super vulnerable spot, you might get Wastelanded and never cast another spell. If your two lands are 2 Plains, you're probably fine.
Not to mention snap keeping the Karakas + Port hands anyway, get Wastelanded and pray that your next topdeck will be another white source.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
i agree 100%.
one of the most overlooked factors regarding the number of lands in this deck, is the fact that we also play 4 wasteland. keep that in mind,guys. and you wont always have aether vial. imo, 23 lands is mandatory and 24 lands is also very playable. 22 lands is only an option if your curve is somehow very lean. like with six 3 drops max.
yea, the winner of the GP played 22 lands with a 'normal' curve, but lets be real, he also had a lot of bracket luck (not taking away anything from him though).
just dont overreact and start playing 22 lands on a regular basis.
I actually did a bunch of monte carlo simulations once and found that you actually want MORE than 23 lands actually; especially with the common density of 8+ 3-drops in the deck these days.
As I recall you didn't quite want 24 in 60 (that was too much); but something close to 24 lands in a 61 card deck actually produced the ideal balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
I return from the land of salt and losing to Miracles 3 rounds in a row and deciding to take a break as a result. 6 round tournament at Poromagia in Helsinki. I actually took some notes, but have the memory of a goldfish so my descriptions of the rounds will be short. At least I remember what I played against this time around.
My Raven was equipped with the following:
Lands: (No cavern because I couldnt' be assed to pay that much for them.)
7x Plains
4x Wasteland
4x Karkas
3x Rishadan Port
3x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Eiganjo Castle
Spells:
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
Creatures: (No Sanctum Prelate since I forgot to get one.)
4x Mother of Runes
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Serra Avenger
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Flickerwisp
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Mangara of Corondor
1x Palace Jailer
1x Vryn Wingmare
Sideboard:
3x Faerie Macabre
3x Rest in Peace
2x Mirran Crusader
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Council's Judgement
1x Mangara of Corondor
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Leonin Relic-warder
I went 4-2 and was overall happy with how things went. Here's a quick rundown of how I vaguely remember my rounds and what notes I have in my life-sheet.
Round 1: Storm (PiF or somesuch who knows?) In my notes I have written "Fist, grind -> fist". I got pretty much dunked. Sided in grave and combo hate but it wasn't enough. Game 2 I had hate on board but my opponent chain of vapored before comboing because my clock wasn't fast enough.
Round 2: BW thingy. In my notes I've just written the word "Grind" 10 or so times. It was a very slow game but I eventually closed out both matches because my opponent ran out of gas. I can't even remember what I sideboarded. Probably revoker in and something out.
Game 3: Dredge. I got turbodunked. I didn't draw enough hate to stop him from just going off or getting enough zombies.
Game 4: Manaless dredge. This time I draw roughly all the hate. Games 2 and 3 I fclear his chancellor of the annex with a vial or mom and turn 2 RiP into scoop. Bring in canonists and grave hate and such ya ya usuals.
Game 5: UWR Delver I think? I forgot to write it down. But it was a kind of grindy game, but my opponent either didn't have enough lands or too many so I pulled out ahead both games. My notes read "Topdeck game too stronk."
Game 6: BUG Delver. My notes read "Double ??? game 1 into grind. Don't sideboard Sword of Fire and Ice out against TNN you dickbutt." Game 1 I recall my opponent having poor draws and game 2 I resolved double mom so I could race his TNN with a Flickerwisp and Thalia, Heretic Cathar.
Overall, should've mulliganed more aggressively against storm and dredge, but things were pretty ok overall.
Along these lines, any further thoughts about mono-white versus splashes in a post-Vegas paper meta? Or to be blunt, a skilled mono-white pilot can do very well when over 50% of matches are Show and Tell or Delver, but what about the other popular matchups? A GP win is an amazing and well-earned achievement regardless of the opposing decks found on the way there, but that's still an "n of 1" data set. It's important to not let that skew our perspective too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by FeX
If we look more broadly, how does the top64 of that event influence the relative merits of mono-white vs splashes? As examples, there were as many Elves as there were S&T decks, and there were more non-D&T Stoneblade decks than either of those. You could easily imagine facing a greater number of even or unfavorable matchups that could benefit from off-white cards.
Hmm I thought I heard that suggested once in an article on Thraben University. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by AsmodeusDM
Five rounds of Legacy in Vienna, Austria yesterday, where I piloted the following list to 4-1 in matches:
8 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Flickerwisp
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Stonecloaker
1 Palace Jailer
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Holy Light
1 Epochrasite
1 Containment Priest
Apart from the sideboard (I got funky and decided to try Leylines to shut out graveyard strategies without any kind of "discussion" about the matter), it is my usual, greedy configuration that has served me well for several months now. Expexting a lot of BUG, I tried to incorporate elements that would be able to deal with TNN. Since I ultimately did not face anything that _really_ cares about its graveyard (my plan was to board in Leylines versus Lands, Reanimator and Dredge only), I wasn't able to test my hyopthesis.
I played Red Stompy (2-0), BUG Delver (2-0), Elves (0-2, losing both times to a very early Natural Order->Craterhoof), White Eldrazi (2-0) and Grixis Delver (2-1).
Magus of the Moon from Vial is boss. :cool: