[Deck] Zoo

Yeah that is the list.
I think it looks really fun and the use of rancor speaks to me.
Using RIP in the SB is nice but still hurts your lavaman which can be a problem, but i think i would just board them out then the RIPs go in.

Using Nobles would help, but you dont really want to use first turns mana on them instead of throwing out Nacatls or Guides. I am testing the ranger devil "combo" out, but the ranger could be diffiult to field without ramping (However exalted could be nice (if you dont wonna attack full throttle later on though). I used him before however which was nice, but it lacked power, since getting a lavaman or two or 2x guides at turn 5 most likely will be too late as bigger creatures are out to block by then. Fetching two vexing devils and either forcing the opponent to counter the them the next turn or take 8 damage would be brutal. Plus the 3+ power of attacking creatures you have at that time. So to me it looks a really strong late game tactic for the deck where it lacks some (if you are unlucky to get to a late game that is...)

About the Thunderous Wraths I am really torn as it is almost a completely dead card the entire game if you start draw it and you have no Brainstorm effects to help you with that later.. On the other hand 5 damage is really nice no matter what turn you play it on and can deal with Tombstalkers, most goyfs and knights.
The mana base on the deck is also annoying me a bit as could be difficult to cast white/green coloured spells after SBing if the opponent wastes you or you Fireblast your lands away.

Yeah, I only mentioned the Nobles because I've seen both them and Ranger in some "Big Zoo" lists.
Thunderous Wrath could work well on the Blue Zoo approach. There's a nice list on TCDecks, with Delver of Secrets and Vendillion Clique added to the fray, plus the cantrips - And Thunderous could fit here (no idea why it isn't present on the list): http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...4&iddeck=67763

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

Yeah, I only mentioned the Nobles because I've seen both them and Ranger in some "Big Zoo" lists.
Thunderous Wrath could work well on the Blue Zoo approach. There's a nice list on TCDecks, with Delver of Secrets and Vendillion Clique added to the fray, plus the cantrips - And Thunderous could fit here (no idea why it isn't present on the list): http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...4&iddeck=67763

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True. The idea of using Th. Wraths could maybe be a nice take on the burning package. Clique is nice, but is it "too blue"? Might be difficult to get it out if you play 4 color blue zoo?
I am thinking something of something like:

Thunderous Zoo
4x Thunderous Wrath R
4x Lightning Bolt R
4x Brainstorm U
4x Swords to Plowshares (if going big zoo style) /Path to Exile (aggressive zoo style) W

4x Delver of Secrets U
4x Noble Hierarch G
2-3x Grim Lavamancer R
1-2x Vendilion Clique U
4x Wild Nacatl G
4x Vexing Devil R
1x Ranger of Eos W
2x rancor / 2x sylvan library G
Mana symbols (10G, 5W, 15R, 10U)

19 lands?

The very few white mana sources could maybe help the mana base, and the white from Nobles should help also. The Plains required for Nacatl is an issue, but if you run various duals you should manage I guess? Which basics would be possible to run do you think?

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Originally Posted by Neffy

Thunderous Zoo
4x Thunderous Wrath R
4x Lightning Bolt R
4x Brainstorm U
4x Swords to Plowshares (if going big zoo style) /Path to Exile (aggressive zoo style) W

4x Delver of Secrets U
4x Noble Hierarch G
2-3x Grim Lavamancer R
1-2x Vendilion Clique U
4x Wild Nacatl G
4x Vexing Devil R
1x Ranger of Eos W
2x rancor / 2x sylvan library G
Mana symbols (10G, 5W, 15R, 10U)

19 lands?

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His list runs both a basic Plains and a Karakas - no Islands. In other hands his list has more blue cards than white, so that was a bit weird. I like that using Ranger of Eos have a more effective use than a GSZ, because it goes as a 3-for-1 - Everything is a one drop here, which is nice. In other hand I don't see any Qasalis in your list so maybe you'll have to make up to it with art/enchant hate on the sideboard (since we have more mana options I'd say Krosan Grip).

Since your deck doesnt depend on an island, but does for a plains (protecting Nacatl) maybe it's worth considering trading a Karakas for either an Island or a Volcanic Island. OH and I'd say Sylvan Library over Rancor since the idea here is to be able to effectively play Thunderous Wrath.

As for Clique, I dunno, some lists have been using Reliquary, which is also a 3 mana, 2 colors card. May btry out running just one or two and see what gives. I like that it can also protect you from combos though, by removing cards from a players hand. In the 93 players tourney I went a couple weeks back ShowandTell decks was the second most played deck (15-20 people, first one was RUG Delver), so you gotta be somewhat prepared for that.

Can we play something like this?

22 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept heath
3 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Horizon Canopy

24 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Stoneforge Mystic

14 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

Can we play something like this?

22 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept heath
3 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Horizon Canopy

24 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Stoneforge Mystic

14 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace

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I think the list looks fun, but its not much a zoo deck is it? WIth deathrites its pretty slow and he and grim lavamancer maybe have some dissynergy? And makes the goyf smaller.
I do like the use of SoWaP as it can be a pain in the ass for more controllish decks or slow-goers. I am also looking at a WUB Zoo and maybe here it could shine. I will post a list at some point.

The sound of a WUB zoo is really cute, hehe.

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

The sound of a WUB zoo is really cute, hehe.

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Turns out I cant spell. WUR is what i meant ;)
Stay tuned.

A

Quote:

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Turns out I cant spell. WUR is what i meant ;)

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Kinda like Blue Sligh?

Hey guys,

With the recent rise of team america style decks into the forefront of the legacy metagame, does anyone else feel like zoo and other fast aggro decks might be able to make a comeback? Less people are playing show and tell lately, and I feel as though zoo may have a chance to come back out of the woodwork.

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

Hey guys,

With the recent rise of team america style decks into the forefront of the legacy metagame, does anyone else feel like zoo and other fast aggro decks might be able to make a comeback? Less people are playing show and tell lately, and I feel as though zoo may have a chance to come back out of the woodwork.

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If I were on Zoo, I'd want to play against RUG all day. The fact that Zoo wasn't competitive when RUG was top dog doesn't bode well for its prospects going forward.

The problem with Zoo is not one deck, but many. As mentioned Show and Tell is good against Zoo, but so is Terminus based decks and Maverick can also be quite hard between mom, swords to plowshares and bigger creatures.

Hello!
I am currently testing my deck list in a local store. This is what it looks like:

Zoo
Creatures:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Steppe Lynx
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
1 Gaddock Teeg

Burn & Removal

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Helix
2 Path To Exile
2 Dismember
2 Swords To Plowshares

Utility:

1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Rancor
1 Sylvan Library

Lands:

3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry


So, this is my list. I tried to build a list that was similar to the RG-Beatz decks from 2009. As you see, it has some unusual cards in there. It became a really efficient and fast deck.

Why I play certain cards:
Dismember: I use it a lot against GW Maverick and Junk. It easily kills a Knight or a Goyf for any kind of Mana and for 4 life. I think I can handle the life with...
Lightning Helix: It sees less and less play. I actually like it pretty much because a) It is a 3-Damage Burn spell for 2 Mana with a little advantage and b) It can make the deciding 6 difference of your and your opponents life.
Swords: Not really usual for a Small Zoo list. I play them because i had 2 at home and didn't want to waste money on 4 Path To Exiles.
Ajani Vengeant: He is a pretty good Planeswalker against GW Maverick. For example: tapping a Mother of Runes or a Hierarch
Sylvan: Gives you fuel in the lategame. I really like how it works.
Rancor: I like those pesky combat tricks such as T2 5/3 Nacatl and Stuff like winning Goyf wars.
Magma Jet: As a Control player I like to see what I draw. And the 2 damage are pretty awesome sometimes since Dark Confidants, SFM etc. die to them.
Single Gaddock: Betters the Combo Matchup a little bit. Stops Force, Batterskull and Scapegoat into Valakut.
Shock Land: In the beginning i only had 7 Fetches and 2 Duals. Some time later i boight 3 Fetchlands and a Dual. But i was still too unsure with mana. So I took the Shockland I had at Home and play it ever since.

I guess the other cards are clear.

Any suggestions? I am currently trying to get my hands on 2 GSZ to get some MD Graveyardhate in form of the ooze, Combohate(Gaddock), a KOTR Package by replacing some of the basic lands with utility ones, Artifact Hate(Pridemage) and some Recurring in form of Eternal Witness.

The use of Dismember is not bad at all! I actually should do some roadtesting myself, even without the Lightning helixes. Besides if it's a burn deck you're againt you'll likely side it out, or versus Canadian, you are at least guaranteed to get rid of a Tarmo. Not bad!

On the Path/StPlowshares discussion, I can see your point! Zoo is an expensive deck for using so many fetchlands, goyfs and duals, however I think Path to Exiles aren't as expensive as those card and since you aren't using neither Thalia nor Wasteland, you should definately consider running 4 of them, specially when you're talking about life advantage towards your opponent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin

Hello!
I am currently testing my deck list in a local store. This is what it looks like:

Zoo
Creatures:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Steppe Lynx
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
1 Gaddock Teeg

Burn & Removal

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Helix
2 Path To Exile
2 Dismember
2 Swords To Plowshares

Utility:

1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Rancor
1 Sylvan Library

Lands:

3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry


So, this is my list. I tried to build a list that was similar to the RG-Beatz decks from 2009. As you see, it has some unusual cards in there. It became a really efficient and fast deck.

Why I play certain cards:
Dismember: I use it a lot against GW Maverick and Junk. It easily kills a Knight or a Goyf for any kind of Mana and for 4 life. I think I can handle the life with...
Lightning Helix: It sees less and less play. I actually like it pretty much because a) It is a 3-Damage Burn spell for 2 Mana with a little advantage and b) It can make the deciding 6 difference of your and your opponents life.
Swords: Not really usual for a Small Zoo list. I play them because i had 2 at home and didn't want to waste money on 4 Path To Exiles.
Ajani Vengeant: He is a pretty good Planeswalker against GW Maverick. For example: tapping a Mother of Runes or a Hierarch
Sylvan: Gives you fuel in the lategame. I really like how it works.
Rancor: I like those pesky combat tricks such as T2 5/3 Nacatl and Stuff like winning Goyf wars.
Magma Jet: As a Control player I like to see what I draw. And the 2 damage are pretty awesome sometimes since Dark Confidants, SFM etc. die to them.
Single Gaddock: Betters the Combo Matchup a little bit. Stops Force, Batterskull and Scapegoat into Valakut.
Shock Land: In the beginning i only had 7 Fetches and 2 Duals. Some time later i boight 3 Fetchlands and a Dual. But i was still too unsure with mana. So I took the Shockland I had at Home and play it ever since.

I guess the other cards are clear.

Any suggestions? I am currently trying to get my hands on 2 GSZ to get some MD Graveyardhate in form of the ooze, Combohate(Gaddock), a KOTR Package by replacing some of the basic lands with utility ones, Artifact Hate(Pridemage) and some Recurring in form of Eternal Witness.

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The first thing I'd do with that list is get 2 more Sylvan Library in there. It's the stone-cold nuts, seriously. It will get that singelton Teeg more often, and just fuel you to finish fast when you need to. It's probably the best card in Zoo, and definately gets my vote for best card in the deck.

Steppe Lynx isn't worth playing 3 of...play the set, or none. I actually favor it over Loam Lion/Kird Ape because it can turn late game fetchlands (found with Sylvan Library) into 4/5 attacker enablers.

I think you'd actually be better trimming some of your hard removal out for Chain Lightning. Six spot removals (Path, Dismember, Swords) that DOESN'T double as burn seems bad. I've always stuck to the 4 Path's maindeck, play 1-2 Swords in the sideboard. If you want to split the Swords/Paths maindeck, that's fine...but put the 2x Dismember into your sideboard.

Your shockland could be Treetop Village...which is good against Terminus.

Magma Jet is horrible...Sylvan Library is so much better at feeding you card quality (especially with the 10 fetches.) That should be Chain Lightning/additional copies of Helx/additional copies of Rancor.

I also advocate Vexing Devil in zoo. It lets you play a sligh approach more effectively and doesn't suck in the late game. Early game it isn't ideal, but truthfully, getting 4 damage for :r: is good efficiency.

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

The use of Dismember is not bad at all! I actually should do some roadtesting myself, even without the Lightning helixes. Besides if it's a burn deck you're againt you'll likely side it out, or versus Canadian, you are at least guaranteed to get rid of a Tarmo. Not bad!

On the Path/StPlowshares discussion, I can see your point! Zoo is an expensive deck for using so many fetchlands, goyfs and duals, however I think Path to Exiles aren't as expensive as those card and since you aren't using neither Thalia nor Wasteland, you should definately consider running 4 of them, specially when you're talking about life advantage towards your opponent.

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First of all: thanks for the advise!
You're probably right about the Path/Swords discussion but I am going to keep the Sword until I can trade for Paths or something.
Considering Dismember: What I like best about it is that noone awaits to see it in a Zoo deck. It hits RUGs Tarmos and you can easily play around Daze with it.

Sincerely, Martin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

The first thing I'd do with that list is get 2 more Sylvan Library in there. It's the stone-cold nuts, seriously. It will get that singelton Teeg more often, and just fuel you to finish fast when you need to. It's probably the best card in Zoo, and definately gets my vote for best card in the deck.

Steppe Lynx isn't worth playing 3 of...play the set, or none. I actually favor it over Loam Lion/Kird Ape because it can turn late game fetchlands (found with Sylvan Library) into 4/5 attacker enablers.

I think you'd actually be better trimming some of your hard removal out for Chain Lightning. Six spot removals (Path, Dismember, Swords) that DOESN'T double as burn seems bad. I've always stuck to the 4 Path's maindeck, play 1-2 Swords in the sideboard. If you want to split the Swords/Paths maindeck, that's fine...but put the 2x Dismember into your sideboard.

Your shockland could be Treetop Village...which is good against Terminus.

Magma Jet is horrible...Sylvan Library is so much better at feeding you card quality (especially with the 10 fetches.) That should be Chain Lightning/additional copies of Helx/additional copies of Rancor.

I also advocate Vexing Devil in zoo. It lets you play a sligh approach more effectively and doesn't suck in the late game. Early game it isn't ideal, but truthfully, getting 4 damage for :r: is good efficiency.

Good luck!

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Thanks for the advise to you too!
Considering the Library: I love that card but even the huge advantage it gives us against Control never wants me to see it twice in a game. I will probably go up to 2 but not further. In my opinion, 3 copies of that card are too much.
To the Lynx: I am considering it as the worst topdeck after lands. It doesn't have haste, dies to ALL kind of removal, only gets its boost until end of turn and gibes you 0 life when sworded. It's raw explosivity and speed basically forced me to play it. I wouldn't want to see one unless i can play it T1 and have a fetchland for T2. Afterwards it is too unreliable in my opinion.
I thought about getting atleast a Path more and totally remove the swords but i haven't got time or money to pick some up.
I totally agree with you on the village and I am going to try it since I got a Treetop Village at home.
You might think the Jet is terrible but in my meta it is better than a Punishing Fire or something similar. My Meta is flooded with Maverick, RUG, Miracle and Team America. The only deck it is useless against is Miracle. Everywhere else there is atleast a playset of a creature i can kill with it.
Well I think Vexing Devil is a horrible, death-bringing creature. Your opponent either sees a Terminus with top or already has any other kind of answer if he lets it resolve. Personally, I neve let it live but Zoo is fast. It can deal with those 4 Damage without any problems.

Well, concluding: I wanna thank you guys for sharing your thoughts and wrote a response to each argument you made. I'm gonna test the suggestions I like and give report.
Sincerely, Martin

I played against someone last evening who had an interesting take on the archetype. I did not really see his list, but going off an educated guess I'd assume it was something like this:

"Haunted Zoo"

21 Lands
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nacatl
4 Goyf
4 KotR
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Lingering Souls
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay

Like I said, this isn't an exact list and I'm sure some of the slots could be adjusted accordingly.

Ok, so obviously this deck has issues against non-basic hate. But I think the black splash gives the deck a tremendous boost in power. It also allows for additional options in the sideboard. Decay and Souls will give the deck some resliency against UWx Miracles, and Shaman is a beating against the format.

I'm not the guy that played you, but my brother and I, in coming up with decks for Denver, developed this list that's pretty similar to that list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bayou
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pyroblast
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Oblivion Ring

The numbers are still in the air. Batterskull needs to be in the deck somewhere, etc etc. We are thinking of Goblin Guide instead of Kird Ape also.

So far the deck was pretty good. T1 Nacatl into T2 Thalia provides an insane clock. The deck has several advantages in the current format:

1) Opposing Deathrite Shamans aren't very effective even if they live. Since the deck doesn't run Tarmogoyf or Knight of the Reliquary, eating graveyards doesn't hurt this deck very much.

2) Since the deck is mainly 1-2 drops, Abrupt Decay isn't super great against us, because they are trading a 2 mana card for one of our 1 or 2 mana guys - at least they aren't trading up if we had Knight of the Reliquary.

3) Sweepers aren't a big deal, because you don't spend a ton of mana to get a couple of dudes into play (unlike Maverick where you are basically required to play Mother of Runes + big guy or Noble Hierarch + big guy to be effective). Dark Confidant and Stoneforge Mystic are also excellent ways to recover from a sweeper.

4) Snapcaster Mage gets a bit worse against us because of Deathrite, which is a very good thing, since Snapcaster + STP is what started pushing Zoo out of the format.

Obviously there are a couple of weaknesses too.

1) The manabase isn't very good. It's pretty vulnerable to Wasteland, but then again, Deathrite Shaman can save you too.

2) The deck is pretty soft to Tarmogoyf, so that's why we added a Sword so you can make your guys big enough to fight Tarmogoyf. Deathrites can always keep Goyfs small too. Abrupt Decay can also solve the problem too.

3) Batterskull. Ancient Grudge needs to be in the SB to fight it, but hopefully the 10 removal spells & Grim Lavamancer can take care of the Mystic before Batterskull hits the table.

4) Combo - that's why Thoughtseizes & Inquisitions are in the SB. Also the deck seems very weak to Show and Tell, hence the Oblivion Rings in the SB (Also decent against Miracles too)

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm actually considering this deck for GP Denver since 1) I love Zoo and 2) I feel like it's actually decently positioned so I would definitely like some help.

You still lose on turn one.

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

You still lose on turn one.

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It's Zoo. What would you expect against fast combo?