Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HammafistRoob
When a creature is phased out, it's treated as though it doesn't exist. Not exactly exiled but effectively exiled.It comes back to the battlefield again at the beginning of its owners untap step. This won't trigger come into play effects and the creature isn't affected by summoning sickness.
Yeah, I know that part. I was just wondering how that would interact with Sneak Attack. I guess phasing out an Emrakul only delays it for one turn, since it will come back into play at the beginning of its controller's next untap step, and it will stay in play forever, since the Sneak Attack "sacrifice it at end of turn" trigger does nothing while it's phased out. In such a case, Fire//Ice would be better than Reality Ripple.
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SirTylerGalt
Yeah, I know that part. I was just wondering how that would interact with Sneak Attack. I guess phasing out an Emrakul only delays it for one turn, since it will come back into play at the beginning of its controller's next untap step, and it will stay in play forever, since the Sneak Attack "sacrifice it at end of turn" trigger does nothing while it's phased out. In such a case, Fire//Ice would be better than Reality Ripple.
Yes, a phased out Enrakul wouldn't have to be sacrificed to Sneak Attack. This is why Vision Charm works with a Phyrexian Dreadnaught.
However, since Emrakul has protection from colored spells, the bigger question is how you'd Reality Ripple him in the first place.
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I think that RR ability to remove permanents isn't the most important thing about the card, at least not enough important to start a discussion about how to RR out pro:colored Emmy.
The fact that RR might work like a momentary removal or a rescue button depending on a situation, is what makes the card so multifunctional... and thus interesting.
Again, I know that 2-mana spells are one mana costly, I know it can't answer the permanents permanently, I know that it doesn't catnip, I know that it can't kill weak creatures/PWs/players and finally I know that we can kill BS with different cards, but the mere fact that it can save 2/3 of our critters against non-counterable or repeatable removal (be it Decay or Liliana), all that without losing a top deck or even topdeck plus flip, and can be played even against non-green deck (e.g. Wasted out green opponent or Grove of the Affinity-like decks that don't play Forest) makes this card pretty special.
As a little sidenote: it does very little against edict effects when you have two or more creatures out, but Submerge also won't help us in that case, neither it can phase out land/Chalice, so it's basically a draw.
I'm interested in what Poxy's testing tells about the card.
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Concerning Reality Ripple, I really don't see much value in using it as a means for saving our creatures. As Barbed Lightning said, playing around them is the only way. Echoing truth can act in a similar way but doesn't even make the SB. This deck just requires the highest levels of card quality and efficiency. Some niche cards can make the SB due to specific meta needs. However, good luck with your testing! It never hurts to innovate.
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I think reality ripple is just too narrow to be considered playable in rug... each of our cards must be either a cheap and versatile spell, a beater or an expensive (cmc>1) BOMB that is very likely to win the game (sylvan library, sulfur elemental, rough//tumble etc.) ...sadly, RR is neither of these so it's really unlikely to fit here. But still, if you like to try something new, you can give Mage's Guile a shot, it seems superior to RR. it still defends your dudes from removals plus it's never a dead card in hand...
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
It still surprises me how people can't see that RR is removal or protection depending on situation.
Mage's Guile doesn't remove that CotV or KotR or Chasm or Ensnaring Bridge or whatever, just as well as Fire/Ice doesn't save your Goyf from Decay. RR can do any of that, depending on circumstances, and that, only that makes it interesting , though maybe not powerful enough.
Until poxy comes with some test results on RR, I won't return to thie topic of RR, as the dead horse is beaten to pulp...
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blaze22
I think reality ripple is just too narrow to be considered playable in rug... each of our cards must be either a cheap and versatile spell, a beater or an expensive (cmc>1) BOMB that is very likely to win the game (sylvan library, sulfur elemental, rough//tumble etc.) ...sadly, RR is neither of these so it's really unlikely to fit here. But still, if you like to try something new, you can give
Mage's Guile a shot, it seems superior to RR. it still defends your dudes from removals plus it's never a dead card in hand...
RR = against verdict, liliana and terminus and x batterskull/ griselbrand and blockers
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbed Blightning
If we're keeping in RR for the "gotcha" effect, then most likely we are sacrificing something else (be it countermagic, burn or SB tech).
RUG is so tight MD and the sb slots too should be carefully analyzed...anyone using DISMEMBERS...this might be the only slot for RR...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crane;
against verdict, liliana and terminus and x batterskull/ griselbrand and blockers
+ abrupt decay...which we have no answer MD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer;
Until poxy comes with some test results on RR...
major testing will happen oct6, next big tourney here...
testing against a friend last night vs UWBg deathblade...only positives for this card once im able to untap to 2 lands, in which case i wasnt able to cast..it was ready still to be digested by FoW in crucial moments, that DISM cant do....test results to follow still
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I played Thresh Can in our lgs with a not exactly brilliant result.
Qty Name
// Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
//\\
// Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
//\\
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt
//\\
// Sideboard
3 Submerge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Rough/Tumble
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sulfur Elemental
R1, Jay with Goblins.
g1: I knew what I stand against and I opened a hand with 2 Delver, 2 Mongoose, 2 Rainforest and one FoW or what. I kept it, decided to hold Lackey with Mongoose and fly him over with Delver. unluckily he had two Wastes and after a long and exhausting game he won.
sb: Out counters, in creatue and artifact removal plus Needles
g2+g3: Although I never seen any Rough, I won these games on the backs of very very tight play. Also, Jay had quite a bad luck and in g3 he ended with a set of Matrons in hand and no way to play them.
R2, Lenny with Mirror.
g1: He Stifled my Waste, them Wasted my Trop, Stifled my fetch, then revealed two Goyfs. That's all she wrote.
sb: I boarded incorrectly, maybe. I took out Forces and a mix of some crap, added REBs, Flus and Submerges. Maybe Flus should be kept in a box, but it's quite solid against Stifle. Also, 2 Blasts might be one too many...
g2: He flipped a Delver with Daze and as I was stuck on one land, I waited until i draw another, as i had important spells to resolve, lie a BS that could have moved me further. But this land never showed up, so I desperately tried Goose, BS and some else card and was hit by triple Daze, good game.
R3 Mat with UW Ctrl
g1: I mulled to four and beaten-and-bolted him down to five before he EOT ET for CB, already having SDT.
sb: out some removal and Goyf plus Ponder, a Daze or w/e, in Grip, Blats, Flus, Needles and Sulfur Elemental
g2: I cut him of mana and defeated him with a one-critter-per-wrath strategy, with the highlight of the match been EOT tapping three lands, playing the S. Elemental and saying "Resolves."
g3: Sadly I've lost this one, because RIP > Goyfs, but if I'd draw my sole KGrip, he'd be in a world of trouble. Nvm, because Mat, who was unlikely to reach the prizes, conceded to me in a very generous fashion. High five, man!
R4 Zee with Jund
g1: RUG > one Swamp. Stiflewaste rocks.
sb: I took Roughs (to stop DRS), Needles (to stop DRS and Lili), Submerges. I've seen Jitte in g1, but I decided to not board specifically for it, as I lacked place. I just hoped that Needle/Snare/Pierce would be enough.
g2+g3: I hardly remeber anything, butI know I made some small mistake when I didn't Waste his Bayou and after he played the 2nd Goyf (and my own abruptly decayed), it was all over for the side of good.
2-2
I wouldn't change anything in the above 75, but I really need to play better. Also, sometiems a bit more of a good luck would be really appreciated.
Not a bad evening at all, I didn't win anything, otoh I bought a japanese Wing Shards from one dude (who also bought a B/G fetch), sold a set of Tarns to second dude, got away a pretty beat Scrubland and a lp USea to a third dude (who also reserved two remaining Seas) and thrown three Carpets of Flowers unto a fourth dude, reducing the value of my evershrinking collection by some 412,5 USD. (412 USD counting the Wing Shards deal.)
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbed Blightning
I've been running another sulfur elemental and one flex (sometimes ooze, loam or library) in place of your GY hate, BedDecks and never missed it. RIP and DRS have effectively scared dredge out of the format and reanimator is still favorable due to our plentiful countermagic and stifle. Otherwise, we have mirrored lists.
Yes, you're right and I'll finally cut the gy hate completely.
With the mere two cards it does nothing, and even against PiF combo, these cards are far from been bonebreaking. Yep, they stops PiF combo and Crypt also suppresses threshold, but a clever ANT pilot will sb his Chains of Vapor or Decay or w/e, maybe not for the second game, but definitley right after he sees one of the cards. As a double one-of this card does nothing against Dredge, because you need to play it asap and as long as you have one of them in thirty cards, you need far too much good luck to find them in time before Ichorid explodes.
Reanimator is extinct in our meta and I don't even fear that deck, it's either extremely unreliable or not really fast, at least when I look at the Tin Fins <-------------------------> Daze Reanimator scale.
Also, seems like I need to analyze my last tournaments and matchups, I think I'll start to make notes on the decks that were present. Because I can't remeber any other unfair deck than ANT (which in fact is not that unfair, they kill on turn3 and are not really fond of our Stifles, Wastes, Fows, Pierces, Snares, Dazes and Blasts), a deck that I played for years so I got quite an idea how to fight it.
I may keep one Surg. Extraction mainly for the "lol, you're trolled" factor when it disrupts opponents combo (e.g. removing countered IT or S&T), I may even consider the "good" old Waste-Extraction plan for the mirror (in this case I'd definitely play two Extractions), but other than that, there's hardly any reason to play a gy hate, esp. when there's not a single person piloting the Dredge/Reanimator deck AND I routinelly lose to fair decks.
I think that Clique is set in stone, the last card would be either a second Sulfele or maybe even 3rd Rough/Tumble. I'd appreciate the latter against Gobos, otoh, after Crypt+Cage removal, I think I should improve my PiF matchup (and it never hurts to up the chances against Show and Tell decks), so second Flusterstorm might it be.
Also, what's the correct number of Submerges? My R2 Mirror opponent played just two, saying that it's not that good card to warrant more than two slots - you want it once per game to force through the last points of dmg. I oppose this idea, as Submerge-and-fetch (to effectively "kill" the kritter) hardly ever happens, Submerge mostly just delays the Goyf/Delver; the card has also application in other mu, like Jund/k, Mav, whatever.
Because now I also think about Mind Harness/Threads of Disl. Yep, Threads are expensive, but unlike Harness, they can steal non-KotR utility creatures (read: Dark Confidant) and although Harness is cheaper to cast, the stolen Goyf has a cumulative upkeep whih is hardly a pro. (Otoh, KotR/DRS with a cumulative upkeep is not that painful, it kills fast or pays for itself.)
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I like the Ooze and LftL.
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I like the Ooze and LftL.
In the current meta, I don't like either.
Ooze saw its heyday when chants of "Grislebanned, Griselbanned" echoed throughout the halls of WOTC. Versus Reanimator, the plan was to survive turns 1-3 via counter-magic and then drop Ooze to lock the game down. Maverick and the mirror were also popular at this time, so Ooze provided benefits there. However, in the current environment, the drawbacks of Ooze (mana-intensiveness) do not outweigh its merits.
LftL is much the same. Historically, I ran LftL in the RUG sideboard. However, DRS, along with the current meta has decreased LftL's necessity.
Look at the current DTB:
Maverick - Runs DRS (produces mana and eats graveyards), Noble Heirarch, and has other ways to neutralize graveyards (Ooze, Bog).
ANT - unnecessary
Elves - unnecessary
Death and Taxes - helpful to rebuy lands and Wastelands to target Karakas and Port, although they will probably bring in RIP to combat Goyf and Mongoose
MonoU OmniTell - unnecessary
Miracles - unnecessary
Sneak Attack - unnecessary
RUG - helpful, although may be too slow (good for long games)
Team America - helpful, although they run DRS
Shardless BUG - helpful, although they run DRS
Goblins - probably unnecessary, as Vial and basic Mountains alleviate our Wastelands' effectiveness.
Jund - helpful, although they run DRS
In play testing, I found that LftL and DRS do not mix. They either use the DRS to eat the LftL or they use the DRS to produce mana to work around the Wasteland effect, eating all the lands that you have in your graveyard (so by the time you draw LftL, you have no lands to return).
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I didn't think of LftL as a mean to recure Wastelands, but to fight the other Wasteland decks, mainly non-DRS ones like Gobos and RUG. Against RUG, basically one resolved LftL moves way further, because you brong back one more fetch to improve your future BS/Ponders, one Wasteland to annoy the opposing dude and one dual to play around Daze... wait, "to play" is enough.
Otoh, it's hardly stellar, just that I dislike to die without lands. RUG mirror is often time a garbage festival with each player struggling to do anything after they Waste and Stifle away their lands, Bolt their Delvers and watch in awe at each other while their Mongooses watch in awe at each other. Scooze and LftL break the mirror and are quite relevant in other mus. (Remember I gonna cut the gy hate.) Also, ain't that funny to exile in resp. the DRS targets? :smile:
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Greetings All!
I have been trying out various decks for the past few months. I did my rounds with American Delver, U/R Delver, Deathblade, and Shardless BUG. Recently my local meta has not been real advantageous for the Deathblade/Shardless type decks. So I made my way back to roots... RUG. Here is the list I ran and a short tournament report.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Forked Bolt
1 Thought Scour
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
3 Submerge
2 Rough / Tumble
Chris with American Delver 2-0
In Game 1 I was able to Probe him early which allowed me to line all of my spells up very nicely. Game 2 I was able to get two lands with a Stifle and a Wasteland which kept all of my counters live. A Delver went all the way.
John with TES 2-0
Game 1 he missequenced a few cards on his combo turn which cost him the game. He could have made 12 Goblins off of an Empty if he played a slightly different line. But he didn't know what was in my hand and didn't have a Silence so I got there. In Game 2 I had all of the counter spells and a Delver/Goose tag team. They got there.
Mike with Dredge 2-1
I was really fast Game 1. Double Delver with Daze, Wasteland and a Bolt or two. I countered his fist discard attempt and then Wasted him off of land. The two Delvers made sure he didn't have lots of time to draw out of it. Game 2 he mulliganned to 4. I thought I had it in the bag. But I couldn't thresh my two Geese and he managed to get his engine online after numerous turns of doing nothing. Game 3 I was super fast and had a Surgical. I had turn one Delver with counter back up. I was able to Extract the only Dredger he discarded with the Extraction and then Wasted him off of land. I turn or two later I Wasted myself, Stifled my Waste and Dazed my Stifle to get Thresh for two Geese to make a lethal attack for 9.
Brendan with Manaless Dredge 0-2
I had zero interaction and died here... lol.
Ian with Burn 2-1
In Games 1 and 3 I was on the play, had a reasonable clock, and counter spells. Game 2 he was on the play and I was counter light.
I ended up 3rd out of like 18-20, which was good for $35 in store credit. The deck played pretty well. I was impressed with the singleton Probe. Prior to playing it, I was very skeptical of it. After seeing how impactful it was in my American Delver match up, I may give another a shot next week. The board might need a little work too... people at the shop constantly change what they are playing so it is hard to keep the sideboard consistent. At any rate, thanks for reading!
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Congrats!
The Probe always amazes me, but as long a s it works for you, I won't argue with the result... :)
Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbed Blightning
@Sturtzilla: your list seems to be missing three cards. Spell pierce I assume?
How was the thought scour?
You are correct. I also had 3 Spell Pierce. I amended the deck list in my previous post. As for Thought Scour, I boarded it out a lot. However the one or two games that I actually cast it, it was legit. We have been over this a good bit, but turbo-charging your Geese and Goyfs is a pretty big deal. Against the American Delver player I Scoured my self to power up a single Goose it was worth it. I didn't even get to stack first with a Brainstorm or Ponder to mill "dead cards." The simple ability to put three cards into the graveyard and to get a new card is great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Congrats!
The Probe always amazes me, but as long a s it works for you, I won't argue with the result... :)
I am not going to claim that it is the best card for our flex slots. I was not really in favor of it before running the configuration posted above. I can see how 2-3 Probe can make combo and tempo match ups a lot easier. The combination of a replacement card, a card in our graveyard, and knowing the contents of your opponent's hand is pretty powerful. It also allows for very high velocity turns. Casting it for the 2 life keeps your mana free for counter spells, casting threats, or both.
