[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by markbris

A few things:

1) How was pyrokinesis in the sb, what mu did you side it in for?
2) Why only 1 siege-gang? Seems really low.
3) How was boartusk in the sb, what mu did you side it in for?
4) It'd be great to get a full Tourney report, did you play any combo?

I can see how your build is stronger against creature based decks, but it seems much worse against reanimator and combo.What do you think? Congrats on the finish though, I watched at least a couple of your matches online and was rooting for you.

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I don't think ddt15 piloted this deck in Indy. I just think he was noting that a mono-red deck placed well there. I've played both pyrokinesis and boartusk liege in my sideboards in the past, but don't anymore. Pyrokinesis is good against swarm decks (including the mirror). The problem with it is that it only slightly improves your matchups there. I feel that it is probably better to devote sb slots to the bad matchups. However, if you are in a swarm deck heavy-meta, you are probably better off with pyrokinesis.

I boarded in Boartusk Liege against black decks, as protection from Engineered Plague. He was pretty good at this. He gives you a way to survive double Plague without splashing green for Krosan Grip. However, I don't see much Plague anymore, so I eventually dropped him.

The mono-red version posted above is a swarm deck that can grow its goblins in size. This improves its matchups with zoo and mana denial decks. If it is not running Instigator, then it is less likely to get down a Siege-Gang. That's probably why it only ran one.

I prefer a black splash build, with multiple Warren Weirding and Stingscourger to deal with re-animator and other big creatures. I also prefer the Warren Instigator build to put more early pressure on the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Justin

I don't think ddt15 piloted this deck in Indy. I just think he was noting that a mono-red deck placed well there.

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oh, weak. I agree with pretty much everythign you said justin.

That decklist has 61 cards. Have you considered dropping an Incinerator to get it down to 60?

Also, have you considered cutting a War Marshall so that you can add another Siege-Gang Commander?

EDIT 1: Doh, just saw that it wasn't his deck.

EDIT 2: Personally, I'd do exactly what I suggested and then replace the remaining two War Marshalls with Instigators.

Congrats to the pilot for placing 2nd, but I don't believe this list is optimal for the meta. Its better against fish and goblins, but rolls over and dies to many of the popular decks in the format. 2 anarcy is his only out for Progenitus, 4 relic for reanimator seems weak, and I don't see how it really stands any chance of beating combo. Thorn is very easy to play around, and without instigator I don't think enough pressure can be applied fast enough. I don't think a list can be taken as good/bad without knowing A. Its matchups and B. How it performed at several events.

Also, how is instigator win more? There is no other card that could be put in his place that has the same impact. A turn 3 hit from an instigator is almost a def win. Not to mention, along with lacky he's a great counterspell bait. I'd much rather have them force instigator than ringleader.

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Originally Posted by JonBarber

Congrats to the pilot for placing 2nd, but I don't believe this list is optimal for the meta. Its better against fish and goblins, but rolls over and dies to many of the popular decks in the format. 2 anarcy is his only out for Progenitus, 4 relic for reanimator seems weak, and I don't see how it really stands any chance of beating combo. Thorn is very easy to play around, and without instigator I don't think enough pressure can be applied fast enough. I don't think a list can be taken as good/bad without knowing A. Its matchups and B. How it performed at several events.

Also, how is instigator win more? There is no other card that could be put in his place that has the same impact. A turn 3 hit from an instigator is almost a def win. Not to mention, along with lacky he's a great counterspell bait. I'd much rather have them force instigator than ringleader.

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pretty much agree with everythign you said

Hey guys, quick hypothetical question.

If the only deck you had was goblins, and you had the cards for the black splash, and you were in a combo filled meta, how would you build?

Black splash or mono red?
If black splash would you maindeck some number of Earwig squad?
Would you make slots for duress in the sideboard? (or Thoughtseize)

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Originally Posted by junkdiver

Hey guys, quick hypothetical question.

If the only deck you had was goblins, and you had the cards for the black splash, and you were in a combo filled meta, how would you build?

Black splash or mono red?
If black splash would you maindeck some number of Earwig squad?
Would you make slots for duress in the sideboard? (or Thoughtseize)

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Your first problem, your in a combo filled meta. Goblins is DEF the wrong choice. Goblins should be played in a control heavy meta (maybe aggro heavy). To fight combo your going to have to fill your sb with a lot of non-goblin combo hate cards, and thats just going to mess the deck up as a whole.

You could maindeck thorn of amethyst and earwig squad and sideboard mindbreak trap...but that's kinda desperate.

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Originally Posted by kinda

You could maindeck thorn of amethyst and earwig squad and sideboard mindbreak trap...but that's kinda desperate.

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At which point your ruining the point of the deck. Your better off just playing countertop, dragon stompy, or something along those lines

yes , as this person have said MD thorn and you have leyline in the SB. plus , relics should be in the SB too. there is also thoughtseize AND duress AND extirpate.

To clarify, my hypothetical should have included the clause that you hypothetically only have access to Goblins, and no other legacy decks. I understand that Goblins is bad against combo and most aggro is, so I am sorry I made it seem otherwise, and hope this clarifies what I was trying to say ;)

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Originally Posted by junkdiver

To clarify, my hypothetical should have included the clause that you hypothetically only have access to Goblins, and no other legacy decks. I understand that Goblins is bad against combo and most aggro is, so I am sorry I made it seem otherwise, and hope this clarifies what I was trying to say ;)

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Well, the next question becomes what kind of combo are you facing? ANT, Belcher, Solidarity, etc? And which one are you do you expect to face the most?

Depends on what combo decks you're expecting to face.

That said, in no case do you get hurt by splashing black in a combo meta. Just varies what you'll want to actually main/board.

Lets say like mostly ANT and Belcher, but other random combo like Golden Grahms with FOW, and also Life.dec.

Thanks guys!

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Originally Posted by junkdiver

Lets say like mostly ANT and Belcher, but other random combo like Golden Grahms with FOW, and also Life.dec.

Thanks guys!

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4 Lackey
4 Instigator
4 Matron
4 Warchief
4 Ringleader
4 Vial
4 Piledriver
3 Earwig Squad
4 Chieftan
3 Siege Gang

4 Wasteland
4 Badland
6 Fetch
8 Mountain

SB:
4 Thorn
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Earwig Squad
6 Creature removal?

This would be my anti ANT/Belcher build. Earwig squad would def have to come out against belcher because they have way too many win conditions, but odds are you won't get to turn 3 against them anyways. Theres no maindeck creature removal, so if you play against something with a few more creatures in 'em, your gonna want to side those in. If there was more reanimator in your area, I'd suggest 4 leyline and 2-3 warren weirding, but you didn't mention anything. Hope this helps!

You can add Chalice of the Void into the mix.

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Originally Posted by Nelis

You can add Chalice of the Void into the mix.

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Oh, true. Forgot about chalice. If your more worried about Belcher over ANT you could even maindeck that in place of earwig squad

Thanks for the info, and help guys! Earwig squad honestly seems great even against control. 3 cards with no restrictions seems pretty awesome.

Hi guys - I was wondering about the SB plan for the mirror? In my list with 4 Lackey, 3 Instigator, 4 Piledrivers, 1 Chieftain, 3 SGC, 2 Stingcscourgers, 3 gempalm, 1 MWM, 1 Fanatic, what do I take out for 4 Pyrokinesis and 1 Sharpshooter?

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Originally Posted by junkdiver

Thanks for the info, and help guys! Earwig squad honestly seems great even against control. 3 cards with no restrictions seems pretty awesome.

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I disagree. Earwig Squad is pretty bad against most things, except for some things that are new today.

He has never been good against control decks, except for a landstillish deck that ran some truly painful silver bullets, and against potential engineered plagues from rock/landstill g2/3, but few people still run plague.

The reason Earwig Squad is playable now (I never thought he was before) is because of prog/iona, bant survival popping up, lands with loam, the rise of combo, and the already current viability of the black splash.