Should Blood Moon be in Sideboards right now?
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Should Blood Moon be in Sideboards right now?
Blood Moon is a trappy card. First you have to induce your opponent to play into it. Also, the fact that you have it in your hand might mislead you into thinking that you want to jam it down when the correct path is something else. Watch this match and let me know if you would lean one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by raistlinim
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/v/13577623?t=3h34m08s
Imho Blood Moon is a great card in Miracle.
We have a solid and basic manabase and we can play this card.
Blood Moon can win alone some matchup, i play her in 2x copies with very good results in my meta and online.
My meta has quite a fair bit of Grixis delver and control.
What is the general game plan for them and some good sb cards?
Both Grixis control and delver?Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
Mentor is really strong in both those matchups. Also, Relic is pretty good vs them. So is Izzet Staticaster/Pyroclasm.
Some brief notes:
Grixis Control and Grixis Delver are two different beings, trying to do different things, regardless of the fact that there is a huge amount of overlap in their card selection.
There are some similarities:
- Both will run Young Pyromancer and a critical mass of cantrips (10ish)
- Both of course have access to both lightning bolt and Blast effects
There are some differences as well:
- Grixis Delver has, as most delver decks do, a Land Destruction element, so your Blast effects are less useful.
- Grixis Delver runs daze, and will try to tempo you out in the early game.
- Grixis Delver more often than not will not have Cabal Therapy in their main deck, going for a more UR centric G1
- Grixis Control will have Counterspell and more copies of Dig Through Time, drastically improving their late game.
- Grixis Control, as far as I've seen, does not utilize wasteland.
- Grixis Control will have disruption in the main deck as a way to draw the game out and last longer.
Vs. Grixis Delver, I approach the matchup in a similar vein as I would UR Delver.
- Board out Force of Will and JTMS, maybe an Entreat.
- Board in Artifact / Enchantment Hate, extra Sweepers, and Monastery Mentors
- Entreat is a topheavy card, and vs. a land destruction deck, you're likely better off with just 1 copy and mentors
Vs. Grixis Control, you're in a control mirror
- Board out Swords, Jace, and Forces
- Bring in Artifact / Enchantment Hate, Extra Sweepers, Mentor, and Blast Effects
- Swords is abysmal if they only really have Pyromancer as a threat. You're better off with your extra
Vs. Both decks
- Jace becomes pretty dead to Red Elemental Blast and Lightning bolts on both sides.
- Forces are in general pretty bad vs. discard heavy fair decks
- Extra sweepers, for example, I play an izzet staticaster, serve as an extra way to help regain would-be card advantage from YP.
Respectfully disagree with Staticaster. Both Grixis Delver and Grixis Control has at least 3 Red Blast effects in their 75, staticaster is a Magnet for these Blasts on stack. It might buy you turns, but you might end up losing to something else. From my test using Staticsaster, you almost never want to spend resource to protect if it somehow gets pass all the Blasts to get into play. When it doesn't, you almost certain would bait out a response from the Grixis player, so I guess it serves as a good bait. If you are running the card in your 75 anyhow, yeah, why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by exallium
This is a good point. I used language that was a little too explicit. Staticaster is in there to harass decks with tiny creatures like elves, death and taxes, and infect, and has some good splash damage vs yp decks if you can make it stick. If nothing else, it acts like a bait spell for blast when you want to resolve something more important like counterbalance or dig, kind of like clique in the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exallium
Thanks for the concise summary. I am playing one additional sweeper in the board. Would you recommend pyroclasm or supreme verdict?
You board in artifact/enchantment removal for their needles and rod?
I personally feel that we shouldnt board out jaces against grixis control. As after establishing the counterlock, it is a very viable win con.
Can someone do a quick writeup on how to play Mentor? At the most recent SCG IQ I tried 2 of him in my SB and in every game he came down he did nothing but eat a STP or Decay. He might just not fit into my playstyle which is probably why I'm not as successful with him as others have been.
Sure! Play more than a few games with him. Seriously though, the card isn't that complicated, get some more games in and you will see. Or watch some past games where people played him. mtgcoverage.com is a great site for anyone not familiar. Very rarely should you actually be playing him turn 3, and a STP/bolt on your mentor is something worth using FoW on.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I don't think pyroclasm is very good right now, and would sooner play staticaster or verdict.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
Bringing in wear/tear vs grixis control is bad since they usually only have 1 target in their 75, but vs delver they could also have sulfuric vortex. Council's judgment is often really bad in this matchup, but its versatility is nice. If CJ was in my 75, I would play that over any disenchant effect.
"I personally feel that we shouldnt board out jaces against grixis control. As after establishing the counterlock, it is a very viable win con." So it's great at winning more? This is why we board out jace vs pyromancer decks. Jace does not stabilize since he gets countered or dies immediately to bolt, blasts, pyromancer, etc. If we have countertop lock, we have won already.
1) Izzet Staticaster is very efficient at what he does, which is harass things with 1 power, turn after turn, or immediately dies to an answer, soaking up a response for something else. I like Staticaster right now because of the good applications in the Infect matchup and the reusability of his effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
2) Yes I do. Dread of Night, Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Sulfuric Vortex, etc. are all applicable against miracles, and I'd rather be overprepared than underprepared. CJ as others have pointed out, is a fine keep as well. W//T is also a 1 AND 2 drop for CB, and CB is very relevant in a matchup vs. a deck with a low curve and no real enchantment hate.
3) No. Don't do it. It's not worth tapping down 4 on your turn to walk into a pyroblast, and if you have CB online you have other ways of winning the game. Blasts are everywhere, and imo the more wincons you have that are non-blue the better. You don't want to get into a grind fest with Grixis Control.
Streaming the 6pm EST daily playing a 20 land variation of BBD's latest list! Come watch @ www.twitch.tv/anzi104
My sb would be as follows:
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical extraction
1 rest in piece
1 red elemental blast
1 ethersworn canonist
1 venser, shape savant
1 engineered explosives
2 monastery mentor
2 vendilion clique
2 wear/tear
1 Sulfur elemental
I think I have decided to play EE over staticaster/verdict, since it is also more flexible in other matchups such as MUD, jund, stoneblade, merfolk
My meta consists of omni-tell, grixis decks(both control, delver), jund, merfolk and stoneblade.
I am playing with the 4 ponder, 20 land version with 2 pyroblasts main
Hopefully I have my bases covered.
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!
IMHO, we've entered an era where Rest in Peace is more of a hinderance than a boon. I'd consider replacing this with a second surgical extraction. It interacts very well with a deck like Jund as well as Omnitell, and does not hinder your own snapcaster mages and digs. It actually makes them better.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
Idk how much Venser is worth it without Karakas in your 75. I understand he's there for Omni, but you could also be running say, the second canonist, Meddling Mage, etc. and still have a very strong counter to Boseiju -> show and tell. These options also appeal more to a 20 land deck.
yes, overall when they expect Rest in Peace (reanimator, dredge, BUG) they often bring in Helm of Obedience to flash win! Those decks all play Gitaxian Probe and Thoughtseize..
Nowadays RiP is both a damage to our strategy and open us to a flash win from the opponent.
Venser without Karakas and Cavern of Souls is almost crap.
Pyroblast is so common that you HAVE to dodge it
btw how does 12 Posts-MUD deals with creatures? Because in case Dwarven Miner can be very helpful in that matchup...
If you're that determined to beat MUD/Post, just play Ruiniation. MUD can always just waste you off of red after you play Miner and at least Ruination has applications in other matchups (mostly BUG and Lands). I think the fact the MUD/Post can't answer creatures is a strong argument for Mentor rather than for random hate creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Also I don't understand this at all. As far as I know the only deck that has ever played Helm to cheese out wins against RIP is Kennen Haas's Glam Loam deck. RIP is a fine card in the meta right now, it's good against both versions of Grixis as well as against RUG and the unfair GY decks. Suggesting that playing RIP puts us in fear of Helm kills is ludicrous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I'm just saying that I would, else, play Relic of Progenitus.
It is also much better against hate being it able to replace itself when targeted.
about Miner: I like to think outside the box it just useless to keep on saying Ruination and Blood Moon.
We already know those cards and we know how to play them.
Even though, probably, Blood Moon is still the best card out there for any Post or Lands.dec
Ruination, Blood Moon, Humility to destroy it.
Pithing Needle on Karn and Ugin.
Counterspell for All is Dust.
Some spells like Wear Tear for some cards he play.
yea, then they Kuldotha (they play 4) into Colossus eot and we go eat the dinner..
How about Viashino Heretic if you are all so worried about MUD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Humility is one of the best cards vs MUD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
His Kuldotha or his great colossus are only 1/1 creatures with Humility.
They can't fetch into colossus anyway
Yea, Karn and Ugin really care about it.
Let's try to agree on 1 point: MUD has a high degree of inevitability and like every deck with some level of inevitability at a certain moment they win unless you win first.
It's a race in which they have Chalice, Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem to slow us down.
Nightmare
I was thinking about playing Meltdown in the SB or Hammer Mage and Serenity.
Hurkyl's Recall is useless in a world of Locus lands..
It's a bad matchup, well observed. But it's winnable, and unless your meta is rampant with it (in which case I'd suggest swapping deck) it's not worth dedicating so many and/or narrow SB slots to it.
Man MUD and Cloudpost UG are two of the worst matchups ever for Miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
I realize that a lot of new people pop into this thread, but almost every page has comments about MUD/Cloudpost v. Miracles.
They are slightly different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Cloudpost or 12 Posts is an impossible MU. As in, you don't get to win... ever. Your opponent has to screw up massively (new to Legacy) in order for you to have a chance.
MUD is definitely an unfavorable MU, but it's still mathematically possible.
So yeah, slightly different.
I would describe it slightly differently. Let's assume you play a game against either of those decks. If you win against 12 post its 90% luck and 10% skill. you win against mud its more like 65% luck and 35%skill. Of course these numbers are made up, but against mud youre more likely to influence the outcome (meaning win or lose) of the game.
Luck for me includes: great draw, bad draw from opp, opp plays bad list, opp plays badly....
Poron, the cards you brought up are horrible, but at least its not null rod.
Why are we still talking about this? They're bad matchups. Skewing your board to fight these and losing percentage in winnable matchups is just bad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirol94
I'm gonna help you out since you seem quite new to this thread. Poron NEVER posts anything relevant or thought through. His posts are mostly ramblings that make the more seasoned miracleplayers frown, grunt, scream or cry. Usually you are better off ignoring his advice and strange questions.
Then on the other hand if you want your intellect challenged, keep on reading them =)
hahaha stop hating me!! tonight I won a lot of matches on Cockatrice.
I play Pyroclasm in place of Terminus. I love to save my own Mentor and all the tokens by replaying a top, Clasming and then attacking for huge value against Burg, Grixis, and Infect.
for Goyfs, Tasigur and other stuff we have StP
that seems suspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
How do you beat elves? Yeah, u dont with 'clasm.
Counterbalance, Mentor, StP, Containment Priest.
Pyroclasm is still useful.
I like when they race for Gaddock Teeg for Terminus eheheh
Your elves players, play this matchup very differently than mine do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Usually they try to race me, rather than grind me out. It's a combo deck in this matchup.
if I can put a Priest or a Counterbalance it becomes more a grindy matchup than a very fast combo.
Being it a sort of storm combo to play 2 Canonist is often very helpful.
In Elves thread they call Miracle the "elf holocaust". Unless things go very wrong that's not a matchup I fear (nor a frequent one).
Again, the worst matchup between the frequent ones is MUD.
Canonist doesn't help
Blasts neither
Flusterstorm neither
Counterbalance neither
all 1cc spells are almost everytime out of the game...
That deck is not so infrequent and we have to think something about it.
I don't read your ideas, I try to put mine. They are not good but still the only ones out there.
You are just keeping on saying "it's a bad matchup make a reason of it". Well I don't. It both hoses Grixis and Miracle.
his market share will just raise and raise.
i prefer have good cards against T1/T1.5 than decks like MUD wich they died alone.
we should speak about concrete Metagame i think instead decks that we could find once in a tournament(s).... :rolleyes:
Can we speak about Shardless BUG?Quote:
Originally Posted by B88
This is a bad matchup we can find in tournaments (Ovino Spring, some legacy side event of Lille, MKM series in Roma see this deck into top 8).
There's quite a healthy discussion regarding this like 3-6 months back in this thread. Nothing has changed really in either of the lists to warrant for a new discussion. Maybe Monastery Mentor has influenced a little and is good against their heavy landwalking force but nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
You will just end up discussing CB or no CB, FoW or no FoW, Blasts or no Blasts and maybe oneoffs like Blood Moon and Moat.