[Deck] Zoo

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Originally Posted by Ziveeman

I'm not the guy that played you, but my brother and I, in coming up with decks for Denver, developed this list that's pretty similar to that list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bayou
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pyroblast
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Oblivion Ring

The numbers are still in the air. Batterskull needs to be in the deck somewhere, etc etc. We are thinking of Goblin Guide instead of Kird Ape also.

So far the deck was pretty good. T1 Nacatl into T2 Thalia provides an insane clock. The deck has several advantages in the current format:

1) Opposing Deathrite Shamans aren't very effective even if they live. Since the deck doesn't run Tarmogoyf or Knight of the Reliquary, eating graveyards doesn't hurt this deck very much.

2) Since the deck is mainly 1-2 drops, Abrupt Decay isn't super great against us, because they are trading a 2 mana card for one of our 1 or 2 mana guys - at least they aren't trading up if we had Knight of the Reliquary.

3) Sweepers aren't a big deal, because you don't spend a ton of mana to get a couple of dudes into play (unlike Maverick where you are basically required to play Mother of Runes + big guy or Noble Hierarch + big guy to be effective). Dark Confidant and Stoneforge Mystic are also excellent ways to recover from a sweeper.

4) Snapcaster Mage gets a bit worse against us because of Deathrite, which is a very good thing, since Snapcaster + STP is what started pushing Zoo out of the format.

Obviously there are a couple of weaknesses too.

1) The manabase isn't very good. It's pretty vulnerable to Wasteland, but then again, Deathrite Shaman can save you too.

2) The deck is pretty soft to Tarmogoyf, so that's why we added a Sword so you can make your guys big enough to fight Tarmogoyf. Deathrites can always keep Goyfs small too. Abrupt Decay can also solve the problem too.

3) Batterskull. Ancient Grudge needs to be in the SB to fight it, but hopefully the 10 removal spells & Grim Lavamancer can take care of the Mystic before Batterskull hits the table.

4) Combo - that's why Thoughtseizes & Inquisitions are in the SB. Also the deck seems very weak to Show and Tell, hence the Oblivion Rings in the SB (Also decent against Miracles too)

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm actually considering this deck for GP Denver since 1) I love Zoo and 2) I feel like it's actually decently positioned so I would definitely like some help.

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Your maindeck is 59 cards. What is missing?

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Originally Posted by JanoschEausH

Your maindeck is 59 cards. What is missing?

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I am guessing a Batterskull or something.

Oops, should be the 4th Mystic and swapping Sword for Batterskull. I've replaced the Kird Apes with Bloodbraid Elf and have been liking it so far.

This is one of the fun'er decks that I have pushed in my time in the format, when I started playing magic again after a long hiatus, I came back at the end of the summer of 2011 and I put together Zoo & dredge, & updated my belcher list to make it legal, since my older list of said deck, was a bunch of banned 4 of's like tinker, wheel of fortune, memory jar, etc.

In either case, every time I look at zoo now it just turns into some weird version of Maverick trying to play some burn, & now even Maverick is falling out of favor in comparison to it's performance's in the past. I may come back to zoo in the future but as of right now I've let the deck go for my own reasons, it's still fast, but against some decks it's just not fast enough, & against other decks it's not interactive enough, that is just my perspective though. So for those of you still pushing zoo, keep on zoo'ing because it's one of the fun'est aggro decks in my opinion, especially fast zoo with all those 1 drops! I believe I even heard it said one time back when it was more popular, that it is the most consistent deck that doesn't run any blue.

In defense of zoo I have found a decklist that had some success since Return to Ravnica Legacy, I suppose this is my last contribution as a "zoo player":

October-6th-2012: ~16th place - Chris Wynes - StarCityGames.com Legacy Open - St Louis Missouri USA - Players: 162

3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Kird Ape
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
[Sideboard]
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tower of the Magistrate

I don't think that Maverick with burn is where you want to be. The format has slowed down, in part because of decks like Maverick and in part because of the influence of RUG (for the combo decks, RUG forces them to play more disruption and therefore less dig/win). So you want to be as fast as you possibly can. I wouldn't be playing DRS or Thalia in Zoo right now. I would be playing more vanilla beaters. My Zoo is splashing blue for Delver of Secrets and it's packing Hidden Herd to give me 12 "Nacatls". Wait until you beat an ANT player because when he untaps for his third turn, he's already at 1. I run a bare minimum of interaction main and bring in specialized hate like Rest in Peace, Stony Silence and Spell Pierce out of board.

@Spikey

Care to share your list? I'm a lover of this deck problem is legacy doesn't allow fair decks with burn to be competitive :(

Quick Question: Why doesn't Zoo play Hidden Gibbons? I haven't seen a deck without instants yet.

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Originally Posted by Martin

Quick Question: Why doesn't Zoo play Hidden Gibbons? I haven't seen a deck without instants yet.

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Goblins :D (that's a good matchup already)

I've been on the fast Zoo train for some weeks, and while the deck can't do shit against Miracles, it does offer some good punching in other decks.

This is my latest list:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswepth Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress
2 Rancor
1 Fireblast

SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus

Just took out Sylvan Library, because while providing some good CA, it wasn't aggressive enough. Put 2 Rancor in its place, and it has been working nice so far. I don't miss Library yet, but I think I will soon.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswepth Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress
2 Rancor
1 Fireblast

SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus

Just took out Sylvan Library, because while providing some good CA, it wasn't aggressive enough. Put 2 Rancor in its place, and it has been working nice so far. I don't miss Library yet, but I think I will soon.

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I like Rancor because of we having move tarmogoyfs to fight against now (due to BUG matchups) however the same deck also has many spot removals ready to fuck up your own tarmogoyf in response to Rancor. I really like the list, though I think that if one would use Thalia, they should use StP instead of Path, because that's sort of beating it's purpose.

Did you guys see this:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1357884481
Looks pretty great even in Legacy:
-4 direct damage
-The second hability prevent both Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse, or Pernicious Deed
-Or extra damage for that unblocked Tarmogoyf/Reliquary. Nice finisher!

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

I like Rancor because of we having move tarmogoyfs to fight against now (due to BUG matchups) however the same deck also has many spot removals ready to fuck up your own tarmogoyf in response to Rancor. I really like the list, though I think that if one would use Thalia, they should use StP instead of Path, because that's sort of beating it's purpose.

Did you guys see this:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1357884481
Looks pretty great even in Legacy:
-4 direct damage
-The second hability prevent both Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse, or Pernicious Deed
-Or extra damage for that unblocked Tarmogoyf/Reliquary. Nice finisher!

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I totally agree with you that it could be good in Legacy, but not in Zoo. With Zoo you wanna get efficient creatures to provide early pressure and use your burn to kill blockers and as a finisher in lategame. A card that can only do one of those two purposes should at least do it good enough to kill your opponent, even if he is at 6 or more life. That's the reason why people play Price of Progress. But doing 4 damage for 2 and only to players is too bad for Zoo in my opinion.

The charm seems just slightly underpowered. 4 damage to player is a good star, but Zoo is a deck that would run Incinerate over Lava Spike. Without the ability to hit creatures other two abilities need to be very good. Early stages of the game you are unlikely to be holding two mana open to stop something like Decay or Pulse and when you are in topdeck mode you would rather draw another creature than this (especially since decks using those cards are also likely to be playing stp, so this is not even a guaranteed safe). Terminus and submerge don't give a damn about charm and you are not running critters that die 2 to 1 to Forked Bolt. The only sweeper this might save you from is Pernicious Deed, but that is very narrow. The best use for this ability would probably be an occasional alpha-strike. Double Strike still is a powerful ability, especially in lists packing Jitte. Most of the time however this falls into category of cute combat tricks, that sometimes are amazing, but most of the time are not worth it. Sometimes you will be able to deal 5-6 damage to a player with this ability, Sometimes you will get 4 Jitte counters, sometimes you will break a standoff, but there are too many 'sometimeses' about this card to my liking.

I might be mistaken, but I perceive this card as having a solid 4 damage to opponent, but slightly subpar other options, leading me to a question 'do I want to be running burn enemy for 4 for 2 mana' in Zoo.

greetings. I personally feel that Boros Charm would be more suited to something like Goblins. A double-striking Piledriver can be really annoying, and saving creatures becomes relevant when you run token generators like SGC and Krenko.

I'm really hoping for a revival of the zoo archetype, and now might be a good time since the format is becoming so grindy and combo decks are being forced to slow down and play more disruption.

I'm told by my Zoo-expert teammate that Boros Charm could reasonably replace Price of Progress.

Hi, haven't played zoo for a wile but because the new meta decided to give it a try. I have two list on my mind.

Sligh Zoo

4 Nacatl
4 Tarmo
4 Lynx
4 Guide
3 Lavamancer
5 flex slotts
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 PoP
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
1 Rancor
20 Lands (12 fetches)

the flex slotts I'm concidering are Kird Apes, Vexing Devils, Loam Lions or Hidden Herd. Which would be the best chose?

Blue Zoo

4 Nacatl
4 Tarmo
4 Lynx
4 Delver
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Brainstorm
20 Lands

I don't know what I should be playing in rest of the deck. Any advice?

The Boros Charm can be used in creature combat to rescue your dude and finish off one of theirs. The indistructible thing is really narrow and will seldomly be used. Four damage for two mana is fine for a finisher.

I wouldn't play it in Zoo, but I will include it in my Boros Sligh list, which is a lot faster (Steppe Lynx, Vexing Devil, lots of burn spells), replacing Price of Progress as mentioned. It's more versatile, and four damage is usually enough to finish things up on turn four.

For those who don't follow Spoiler thread, a nice suggestion was posted there Kiln Fiend + Boros Charm. If opponent runs removal you can play it safe and burn them for mere 7 damage. But if you are racing combo, or some other deck that runs no MD removal, you can go all out and bolt, charm, swing for 14. With bolt damage and your t1 play this is a sure t3 kill.

I'm thefringthing's friend. I don't usually post on here because I tend to see a lot of godawful ideas in this thread. To the person above me, Kiln Fiend would be terrible in Zoo. You're playing an X/2 creature (I.e., one that trades with cards like Bob/Snapcaster/Goblin Guide/Every creature in Goblins, which every other creature in your deck successfully avoids) and requires you to play more than 2 spells in a single turn to be temporarily better than a Tarmogoyf. The rest of the time, it is far, far worse. Moreover, you're relying on hitting your first three land drops and having a perfect mix of Kiln Fiend and multiple spells in order to hit hard enough to land a turn 3 kill. I can offer you a better one. Turn 1 Wild Nacatl, Turn 2 Wild Nacatl + Kird Ape/Loam Lion, (opp at 17). Turn 3, 2 Bolts and a Fireblast. Does not require you play godawful situational cards like Kiln Fiend and is roughly as likely/unlikely as your scenario.

I think this card is certainly playable in the slot where I'm currently packing 2 Price of Progress. Price takes a lot of work to hit for more than 4 damage generally, and is either dead or extremely easy to play around in a lot of matchups. The convenience of 4 damage straight to the dome is, I would argue, worth the occasional loss of ~2-4 damage from Price. I find Price hits for 2-4 damage the vast majority of the time, and I've only ever hit for more than 6 when playing against Lands.

The second ability seems weak at first glance, but the fact that it saves permanents (not just creatures) gives you a tool that can occasionally protect you from a Wasteland (or, heaven forbid, an Armageddon or a Sinkhole) while also shielding your team from the likes of Damnation/Pernicious Deed/Supreme Verdict, as well saving a single creature from red or black removal in a race/topdecking situation. I agree that it's situational, but it has a number of reasonable uses. It can also be used to obliterate an opponent's profitable blocks in a board stall against decks like Goblins or Delver.

The third ability is, in my opinion, the weakest, but it's certainly a viable way to win a Tarmogoyf war, blow out someone who tries to double-block one of your creatures, or score some damage in the rare scenario when someone brings in a Leyline of Sanctity against you (If they're playing Leyline, they're probably bringing it in). If your Goyf gets bigger than 5/6, you can use it to score extra damage, though if you're getting in with a 5/6 Goyf, the game is probably over already.

Boros Charm's second two abilities, though, are icing on the cake. 2 mana for 4 to the dome is something that burn has been playing for years (Flame Rift), and that is symmetrical and sorcery-speed! While it may at first seem to be outdone by Price of Progress, Price's symmetrical and conditional 2-8 damage doesn't seem (to me) worth the trouble when you have access to a non-symmetrical 4-damage that provides a reasonable amount of (if narrow) utility.

I do agree that Boros Charm perhaps fits better into a more burn-heavy shell, like an aggressive Boros deck or a more traditional burn deck splashing white, but I think it has enough utility to see play as a 1- to 2-of in Zoo. I'm personally going to give it a try, and I'm definitely going to run it as a 4-of in my casual Legacy Landfall deck, where it can be used to double-strike up and/or protect your fragile landfall creatures from removal.

Edit: In response to crow_mw, I agree that the Charm probably isn't worth it if the card you're cutting is something that can hit creatures, like Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Path to Exile, or Lightning Helix. I do, however, think the straight-up 4 damage combined with the utility is worth it over more conditional cards like Price of Progress or Fireblast (which you never want to point at a creature, at least in a build like mine with 19-20 lands) that are only used for going straight to the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Capt4in

blah blah blah

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Guize, let's play Vinelasher Kudzu!

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

Guize, let's play Vinelasher Kudzu!

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This is an accurate representation of my impression of the average post in this thread. :p

Just finished 66th at SCG San Diego.

4-4 was my final match record.

Here's the list I piloted:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path To Exile
2 Fireblast
1 Price Of Progress
1 Sylvan Library

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
SB:
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Helix
1 Syvlan Library
2 Price Of Progress
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast

Matches:

Round 1 - Storm
Win 2-0
Matches: 1-0

Round 2 - Jund
Win 2-1
Matches: 2-0

Round 3 - Show and Tell
Lose 0-2
Matches 2-1

Round 4 - Goblins
Win 2-1
Matches 3-1

Round 5 - Storm
Win 2-1
Matches 4-1

Round 6 - Feature Match that never got camera time vs MUD
Lose 0-2
Matches 4-2

Round 7 - Jund
Lose 0-2
Matches 4-3

Round 8 - Esper Stoneblade
Lose 0-2
Matches 4-4.

I can elaborate a bit if anyone wants me to.