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I think so. It's a full turn faster which is a huge deal against combo decks. Even in Jund colors it's a little easier to cast too since you don't have to get your red for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Slaughter Games is a strong card, but in the times you want Lost Legacy speed really matters.
I also played against NO Elves a few times outside the tournament. We've got a pretty degenerate meta going on but still:Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
T2: I don't want to lose to Infernal Tutor/Sneak and Show/Natural Order.
Do not Lost Legacy Dredge. They're too redundant, and the last thing you want to do is hit something in their hand like Phantasmagorian, giving them free dredges. Dredge is the only match I've found so far where you actually care about the card draw.
Yes the meta is somewhat degenerate. Lots of t1-2 griselbrand/emrakul/marit lage (turbo depths online is common, annoyingly).
Storm seems to be rarer. I don't want to devote 2 slots to canonist in the side because it's only good against storm and elves, which are rarer decks online these days.
For that reason I am playing 2 TS main, arguably the best card against show and tell decks and very fast combo decks, and in the side: 2 needles (sneak attack, thespian stage, random walkers included JTMS), 1 duress (could be TS), 3 lost legacy, 2 to the slaughter, 1 teeg.
I'm am liking this configuration a lot. The lack of canonist against storm is somewhat balanced by lost legacy.
Hey everyone. I switched from Jund to Nic Fit a couple months ago and I am very happy with the change. I love playing a deck that is fun, competitive, requires a lot of thinking and that consists of cards that no one expects seeing (more on this a little later).
Last night I played in a local event and finished 3-1 with the following list:
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4 Siege Rhino
1 Atraxa, Praetor's Voice
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Path to Exile
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Nissa, Vital Force
Side:
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Golgari Charm
2 Invasive Surgery
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
Round 1 vs BR Reanimator W 2-1
G1 - He mulliganed to a slow 6. I was able to path his Chancellor and beat him down with a Rhino and Nissa.
G2 - He had the nuts with T1 Griselbrand
G3 - T1 Cabal Therapy hitting an Entomb which basically won me the game because he had Exhume in hand and I had no other way to deal with Griselbrand in my hand. T2 I played GSZ into Deathrite and then GSZ into another Deathrite T4.
Round 2 vs 12 Post L 0-2
G1 - I was able to Abrupt Decay an Expedition Map to slow him down but he eventually played Void Winnower (I was a bit surprised to see this card). I blocked it with Explorer for a couple turns but could not find a Path or Pulse even with Senseis Top out and fetching a couple times. I also had Rhino and Atraxa in hand which I could not cast.
G2 - I mulligan to a bad 6 (5 lands and a Therapy). I decided to keep it even though I probably should have mulliganed. I actually was able to get two Rhinos out but he eventually played Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunter exiling both Rhinos.
Round 3 vs Storm W 2-1
G1 - He went off T3 even though I hit both a Brainstorm and Lion's Eye Diamond with Cabal Therapy T1 and T2.
G2 - T2 He got twelve 1/1s from Empty the Warrens and I magically topdecked Golgari Charm the very next turn.
G3 - Battle of the sideboard cards. T1 He played Duress and I had Invasive Surgery, GSZ, Tireless Tracker, Canonist, and 3 lands. He took the GSZ for some odd reason. T2 He played Cabal Therapy which I countered with Surgery and then played Canonist on my T2. He then Decayed it the following turn. I played Atraxa on T4 which attacked the next turn. He drew Chain of Vapor which he used on my Atraxa and then tried to go off with Ad Nauseam. He drew about 12 cards which brough him down to 2 life but he had no open mana and needed to a Lotus Petal or Lion's Eye Diamond. He took the risk of drawing one more card which was Burning Wish. The funny thing is, if he had passed at 2 life, I had no creatures on the board (Atraxa in hand) but I would have drawn a GSZ with 5 lands out. SIEGE RHINO FTW.
Round 4 vs Miracles W 2-1
G1 - I mulligan to a bad 6. My only land was Stonghold but had a Top so decided to keep it. I never saw a green source and pretty much all the cards in my hand were green.
G2 - T1 I play Carpet of Flowers. I end up playing 3 Rhinos within 5 turns. One Rhino he used Terminus on but he attempted to Terminus my 2nd Rhino which I countered with Invasive Surgery!
G3 - He plays T1 Ponder and I follow with T1 Top. He keeps two mana open T2 and I play Carpet. It resolves. T3 I played Witness getting a land back. T4 he plays Jace and fate seals himself telling me he did not have a great hand. On my T4, With 3 mana floating from Carpet and 4 lands out, I was able to play Pithing Needle on his Jace and then Sorin, Grim Nemesis which resolved. (Cue to Irene Cara's "What a Feeling"). I flip over Siege Rhino and then two turns later Nissa which I was able to play. This was by the far the best game I have ever had against Miracles. The look on his face when I played Surgery, Sorin, and Nissa was priceless.
Some thoughts:
- It felt refreshing being able to beat 2 fast combo decks as well as Miracles in one night. This deck has a chance against any deck.
- I fully understand why people play four Rhinos. I was playing two up until last night and I get why in some match ups you just want to play as many as you can. The card wins a lot of games.
- I like the second Nissa over Thragtusk.
- It is all about the sideboard against our bad match ups. Make sure you spend a lot of time with the sideboard.
- Make sure you don't attack before playing Nissa (assuming you want to attack with her).
- I am considering cutting Volrath's Stronghold for another fetch, basic, or dual since I almost never use Stronghold and that includes playing a lot online. Thoughts?
- What are your thoughts on Maelstrom Pulse vs Vindicate? Reclamation Sage vs Qasali Pridemage? Second Swamp vs Second Plains?
Stay tuned for another legacy tourney breakdown.
Pulse etc - metagame call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amulet of the HangingLamp
Pulse is better against Empty the Warrens and slightly better against Goyf decks, but mediocre against Miracles and bad against Lands.
Vindicate is better against Miracles and D&T, okay against Lands.
Anguished Unmaking is great against Lands, good to okay against Miracles, and awful against Delver and Burn.
Beast Within is good against Lands and Miracles, mediocre elsewhere, but you need to build your deck around it somewhat / have lots of Rhinos or Jaces.
QPM is better if you have Meren in your list or other graveyard recursion. Reclamation Sage doesn't need white mana and gets around random junk like Suppression Field. If you're thinking of playing Renegade Rallier, QPM looks better there too.
Second swamp unless you're playing Sigarda or Elspeth Sun's Champion, in which case run the plains. If you have two swamps you can also afford to run Liliana LH if you want to which is nice sometimes.
New primer / thread should go up early next week. I decided I wasn't happy with the card choices section and am expanding it to be much more thorough, which delayed me a bit.
Just to chime in:Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
QPM is also another potential out to Infect (nexus) where Sage is useless.
QPM works fine with Stronghold.
(Just remember that to activate QPM ability YOU NEED A VALID TARGET)
Stronghold reaches its peak when paired with Phyrexian Tower AND Primetime.
Having no way to tutor for Stronghold greatly diminishes the reliability of playing such card in your deck.
Stronghold + Phyrexian + Prime is a great way to outgrind miracle.
My two cents !
How are people feeling about Scavenging Ooze lately? I'm trying to find a slot for a Bojuka Bog, and Ooze comes across to me as too slow. It's also not something I ever GSZ for, for the body or effect. So I'm thinking I can go -1 Ooze +1 Bog in the MB. This also helps the land count which is normally lower due to Maze of Ith not providing mana.
I think I have removed ooze from every configuration I play. It is better in bug as a way to gain life, otherwise it is too slow. Everything impacts the board immediately: Sigarda Titans rhinos tusks nissa. Ooze takes time and when we need gy hate it is too slow. Lifegain is covered by rhinos or tusk already. I'd rather play a second drs or second tracker
Aside from maindeck Teeg or Pridemage there is not really a solid Green 2 cmc replacement right?
Voice, but only in a pod shell
I'm in straight BG so neither of those are options for me. However, I could still cut it for a land (since one of my lands doesn't produce mana). That's what I was leaning towards. Cut the Ooze, add a Bojuka Bog. Still have tutors for it with Crop Rotation. It leaves me with better GY hate, and better mana, but slightly fewer threats... though Ooze ranks pretty low as a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Duskwatch Recruiter might get close (especially since I'm now lower on SDT's) but I haven't done the math on what you need for creatures to make it pay off. Some quick calculations suggest 20 creatures is the magic value to get a 70% activation success rate, but I think I want more than 70%. Sadly, SDT doesn't do much for activation success here. Paying 1 to ensure I can successfully pay 3 means I pay an average of 4.4 mana per extra threat drawn, while without SDT it's 4.29 mana per.
I suppose there's always Goyf.
I'm at 2 DRS and 2 Tracker already, I don't really think I want a third of either MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
You brave brave man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I suppose 2 DRS and 2 Tracker is fine aswell and drop Scooze completely. Hes hardly very relevant lately
After playing it a bit, I'm finding I like BG more than Junk. There's not really any bravery involved. I like Nissa over Sigarda and I like Diabolic Edict (especially in the current meta) over Path. After those two swaps are made, white really struggles to offer much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Phantasmagorian means you're facing Manaless. I think I disagree. The deck's combo finish is your biggest enemy (since you don't have any counters or tax stuff). Being able to name Dread Return and shut down that road to victory is pretty damn good. But again, this is only vs. Manaless. After that you can start going after recurring creatures. Ichorids first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
To be fair, Reanimator is seeing a lot of play at the moment. It's just that Surgical & DRS are quicker. Once you manage to hit the lategame, Ooze is a fine wincon vs. those decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Scooze with enough mana often locks out any graveyard strategy, but getting there is often a B... Like said, SE and DRS are faster and most often enough. Scooze is the card that currently does the least and is boarded out the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
It's just that is was always an auto include and mostly the only 2 drop.
Maybe have it in sideboard instead? To sideboard against gravedecks. He can still be GSZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
When you start talking about, yeah Ooze is too slow. But there are no other good 2-drop.
I want one more Tireless Tracker in main and maybe ooze has to go. The issue is I already have to many three drops and like 3 two drops in the deck.
Brael, with the printing of Fatal Push, do you feel like this slots into your GB only lists? If so, how do you think you'd split between AD, Edict and Push? (and I guess Pulse)
I don't think that push has the reach we are looking for in additional removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDHackbert
Edit: considering a basic package of 3 deed, 3 Decay and Maybe 1 Pulse not discriminating any color splash.
I don't think I'll be running it in GB. Part of cutting a color was to make room for edicts which deal with the big stuff you typically need Swords/Path for. With my Deed count being so low, I like being higher on Decay too. I don't see where there's a slot it's competing for that I want it over other options.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDHackbert
My MB removal isQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
1 Maze of Ith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Then there's 2 Crop Rotations which can tutor Maze as needed. I just don't see where Push slots in easily over any of that.
This is something I'm working on. Dark Confidant is a fantastic 2 drop, but it has implications for the rest of your deck, a price that I think is well worth paying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
As far as GSZable targets go it's Sakura-Tribe Elder or Scavenging Ooze. Steve is great, Ooze is good in theory, bad in practice. I'm honestly considering a Goyf or a Scryb Ranger. On that note, has anyone ever tried playing Scryb Ranger? It has some neat interactions with Courser, Tracker, and DRS. It holds equipment too, though that won't be relevant in my deck.
Scryb ranger works well in maverick becasue it has knight and mother that has tap abilities. We have only deathrite shaman. Also, we need more land in play the maverick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Sakura-Tribe elder is maybe a option.
Goyf is absolute garbage in NicFit. When you have it, it is either to small or it doesn't impact the board.
The problem with non-green creatures is that you need at least 2 in your list, where space is tight already as it is. STEve is fine in a list such as Sneak or Scape. In "regular" NicFit i found it underwhelming.
Scryb Ranger is abso-fucking-tastic in Maverick. But indeed, Maverick has MoM and the knight milf to tap, plus that it enables Arbor shenanigans or enables a one shot with DD/Stage and KotR. Al stuff we don't have, or not enough at least.
I don't know about the "Goyf is garbage" idea. That originally stemmed from the fact that the deck was using cards like Recurring Nightmare, sometimes Birthing Pod, and Diabolic Intent. Creatures were being sacrificed left and right, so the idea was that we wanted cards with ETB effects. That's not really the case anymore, and in my version specifically, I'm just looking to grind value and hit the opponent hard. So my thought process is something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
- I want a 2 drop that hits hard
- I want a 2 drop that is resistant to some removal
- I want a 2 drop that I can GSZ
- I want another big creature in my deck while keeping my curve low.
Goyf does all of this.
Now, my argument for Scryb Ranger isn't as well thought out, but basically it fits the curve and it does cool things. I probably wouldn't want to GSZ for it, but it's great against Grixis Delver and if I draw it it opens up two different GSZ paths with either DRS or Tracker depending on the game state and my plan for the matchup. It also gets a little better with the postboard plan of more DRS. Also, this might sound weird but it's pretty good against mana denial decks like D&T or Eldrazi. Crop Rotation is already playing in this space, but Scryb Ranger is a good answer to Wasteland. It can't save utility lands but Scryb Ranger hands can more safely fetch duals, especially in my case where there are no non Forest duals. In my list, Ranger interacts with 1x Arbor, 2x Deathrite, 2x Tracker, 1x Courser, 1x Nissa for 7 cards plus another 2x DRS out of the board. Is 7/9 cards enough?
But why not Scavenging Ooze ? It's grave hate, gives you life and grows incredible fast. There was this one game against where the Ooze grew up to a 13/13. Ooze is very underrated most of the times. "yeah just a ooze" and after two or three turn they regret it when they face a 5/5 Ooze. Can't understand how Ooze is bad in practice. I like it when I have it, I hate it when it's against me.
I have too many games where Ooze is just a 2/2. Once it grows it's fantastic, but getting to that point often times involves giving up a lot of potential. Most of the justification for Ooze is that it's another piece of GY hate. It goes wide against the GY too and it wipes GY's fast. Problem is, it can't do that until turn 3 or so and we need something faster than that right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo900
Continuing with the Crop Rotation experiment, that opens up Bojuka Bog which is easier to grab than a GSZ'ed Ooze is, and also wipes the GY but does so faster. Once Ooze's primary job of being mass GY hate has essentially been replaced, the question starts popping up as to if it's just acting as an extra big body (that I have to spend a lot of time/resources on), why not just skip the interim steps and play a big body?
I remember it happened once on a sketcher keep and then it was kinda awkward when I got back to basics'd game one against a miracles opponent(I did end up winning that game through a nissa ult, it took forever to find an answer to B2B so I could dumb my hand but I eventually did)Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I have been really impressed with her in a lot of matchups, but I really love that she has a discard effect that isnt bad for us as well like LotV. And on the lack of acceleration I personally would rather have another decay/path/discard than something like a deathrite or STE as I have never personally been impressed with either out of the deckQuote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
She stopped a blitghted agent from attacking for 4+ turns in a row until I could find a way to remove it from the table. Having all of our ground pounders to block the elf I am really only concerned with ink-moth and the agent and sticking a kaya down the line(or event turn 2/3) to just shut of the agent makes dealing with ink-moth much easier. But she isnt really the all star of this matchup as that would be deed and a fistfull of removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
This isnt going to be as in depth as I wanted it to be because I havent had a chance to right this down until now(yay school). Next time ill have to take better notes
Round 1 R/G Lands
Game 1: I dont assemble anything other than 1/1 beats before he 20/20'd me
-4 Cabal -3 Decay
+2 Surgical +3 Legacy +1 Slaughter +1 thoguhtseize
Cabals are very unimpressive and deed can hit diamonds and explorations so it stays over the decays
surgicals for loam/combo(pref depths) and legacy for loam or fire. To the slaughter is another out to 20/20. The seize is better than therapy when it gets drawn imo.
Game 2: He mills over DD with loam and I surgical it in response to the loam. Then I surgical loam and stick a kaya and start digging for an answer. He gets the fire combo online and then that gets Legacy'd away. I find anything that turns sideways before he finds his 1 of vortex.
Game 3: He gambels for loam and then discards it to gamble. Then he cast a chalice on 1 (told me afterwards it was for the surgicals). So I surgical loam response to the chalice. I then plan some beater and he has to k grip his own chalice to get the other half of the combo with gamble, which then dies to To the Slaughter.
1-0
Round 2 Enchantress with a wishboard
Game 1: Once I figured out what he was on I go get a leovold and he dies before he can do anything.
-3 PtE -1 Scoze?
+1 To the Slaugher +1 Toxic Deluge +1 Golgari charm +1 Gasali Pridemage
Brought in everything that kills an enchantment or a enchantress. Didnt bring in the seize's or legacys because of the redundancy of some of their pieces and that the rest the removal can actually interact with them.
Game 2: get an early Qasali and he O rings it and then nevermores decay. Have both a decay and deed in hand so I proceed to slam dead and 5 for 1 him and then get a leovold and beat him down.
2-0
Round 3 Jund depths
I think I got this 2-0 but our games were looooong but I might have gotten 20/20d one game. Mostly what happened was not dieing to 20/20 and slaming fatties after getting through the early game. Boarded similarly as I did for lands because they have a number of cards that could stand to be extracted.
3-0
Round 4 Grixis Delver
Game 1: Resolve veteran into cabal into rhinos. At one point he trades a rhino for a gurmag and then I played an Atraxa and he conceded as his young pyro couldn't keep up.
-2 Nissa, Vital force -1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
+1 Toxic Deluge +1 Painful Truths +1 Qasali Pridemage
The planeswalkers are harder to resolve and protect against bolt delver and having another sweeper, a card drawing spell, and a greensunable out to winterorb is all preferable.
Game 2: Veteran into therapy resolves again except this time my hand is 2 fetchlands, deluge, and painful truths and I am at 12 with flip delver and active deathrite on board. So I cast deluge for 2 go to 10. Deathrite puts me 8 and then deluge resolves. And then I cast the most depressing Painful truths of my life drawing 3 fetchlands now that I am at 5. But he also had no hand and I drew a greensun before he could mount pressure and got a Rhino and closed out the game.
4-0
Round 5 Mono R Painter. First this deck caught me off guard being 4-0 and then the fact I have not played against this deck before
Game 1: I am on the play and have basics and some interaction and I believe I went forest into Top. He goes tomb painter. I have a decay in hand so I play swamp and pass. He goes mountain blood moon. Now I didn't think the basic deck would care about bloodmoon and the fact I had a plains in hand with a swamp and a forest out so I decay'd the painter. He then blasted both of my basics. So I now have no access to black mana or double green and he kills me before I can find a greensuns for E-wit to get either basic back.
Sided in artifact/enchantment/combo hate(legacy is real bad here)
Game 2: went grindy I didnt respect goblin welder enough and he killed me by assembling the combo with it.
4-1
Round 6/10/14 Mentor Miracles So these all played out the in very similar ways. I won all 3 game ones through either Nissa's ult Or them not being able to stabilize. Game 2 and 3 I got cliqued on turn 3 every game and that etiher forced me to decay it or took my decay if I had another answer followed up by a mentor and a force on my deed(or one time he waited till turn 5 and counterspelled it). One of these games involved turn 2 CB into turn 3 blindflip for deed and then blind flip for sigarda. I am going to have to play more against Mentor miracles as I don't have a lot of experience against this build(not a lot of miracles around me and the one that is hates mentor). My feeling after this is that the -4 vet -4 cabal -1 Rhino -1 Atraxa +3 legacy +2 thoguhtsize +1 truths +1 pridemage +1 Truths +1 Deluge Plan +1 Elspeth is too slow to handle the mentor plan.
So 4-2 After loss to miracales
Round 7 Food Chain
After he got all of his dudes in exile and then on the board I had managed to deed them all away (I had like a rhino board) he then empathed for tasigur and delved them all back and started hitting me the fliers again. I eventually found nissa and got the deed back and deeded him again and put him one a 1 turn clock. He rips food chain and has 1 dude left and exile and emmys me.
-3 PtE -2 Kaya -2 Nissa
+3 LL +3 Seize +1 Toxic Deluge
the paths dont do what you want them to and the walkers are really hard to protect against a only fliers deck. The Legacy and Seizes to break up the combo/just put the fuckers in the graveyard instead of exile
Game 2: He vomits out a bunch of dudes (2 deathrites and 2 strixes) and I had missed a land drop so I went with the deed pop deed next turn plan because I wouldnt think I would live if I cast legacy instead. The turn before I cast legacy for Food chain he slams it and kills me.
4-3
Round 8 DnT
Game 1: He plays some dudes and I shoot them for a couple of turns until I land a rhino and beat him down
-4 Vet -1 Cabal
+1 Elspeth +1 Deluge +1 To the slaughter +1 Golgari Charm +1 Quasali
The vets are really meh and the cabal is bad later on so I trim on it. The deluge is great as a non revokable sweeper along with the charm. Pride mage is nice for equipment and to the slaughter can get a gideon later as hitting delirum is not ambitions against DnT and elspeth makes dudes that can block crusader and can take over the game if you can keep their fliers down.
Game 2: He extends out with multiple dudes and a revoker on deed. The deluge was around a 4-1. He shoots my dudes and I have nothing but removal in hand(including charm) The game goes on until he stoneforges for a batterskull and gets it on the board. I shoot the stoneforge end step and then I untap and play elspeth. I plus her up to 8 and then ult her and then the 3 3/3's a turn win the game against the thalia and batterskull.
5-3
Round 9 Infect
Game 1: I have removal.hand and do nothing for a while. Meanwhile he also does nothing until and passes back with 3 lands. 2 trops and a forest. So I find a vet on my turn 3/4 and lead the vet and then a cabal therepy and my opponent responds with a brainstorm. He thinks he hasn't shown he is infect and leaves agent in his hand. I can't think of what else he is and name agent hitting. He cant overcome my paths and decays and dies to Nissa.
-3 Rhino -1 Atraxa -1 Ooze -2 Nissa VF
+3 Seize +1 golgari charm +1 Quasali +1 to the slaughter +1 Deluge.
Game 2: I have a little bit of a sketchy hand and die on turn 2/3 to him having protection plus counter.
Game 3: I have a turn 3 kaya flick your blighted agent and another vet to block the elf. So he commits a second noble hierarch and crop rotates(at the end of my next turn) for a inkmoth which gets pathed after he hits me for 3(puts me at 5 total) I commit more ground pounders leaving up interaction and pass back. He finds a second blighted agent which is problems so by now I had a top running and start digging taking a fetch as my draw step and then getting 3 new cards finding a golgari charm killing an elf, 2 agents, and 2 heirarchs. Game ends shortly after that.
6-3 So I made day 2 at this point which is pretty sweet for my first GP and being on nic fit.
Round 10 lost to miracles
6-4
Round 11 Burn
Game 1: So I kept a had that was double vet, tower, kaya and some lands and keep it. Lead on vet and my opponent goes t1 swiftspear. Well this is bad. Slam the kaya turn 2 and play the second vet and just start draining my opponent. End up not finding enought interaction and a second kaya and die eventually.
-2 Nissa VF
+1 Quasali +1 Charm
Vital force doesnt stabilize very well against burn and need ways to kill vortex
Game 2: I put 4 rhino on the table after shooting a vortex.
Game 3: I remember being very close and having to use kaya just to drain a lot before finding a rhino to close out the gmae
7-4
Round 12 Dredge These games were really fun to play because pilot on dredge was a blast
Game 1: I almost stabilize through the dread returns but it wasnt quite enough
-4 Walkers -1 Decay
Game 2: I therapy him hitting his breakthrough and stall enough to get an ooze out and eat an ichorid or 2. He then gets another breakthrough and mills over all 4 bridges and I then decay my ooze to exile all of them after eating some ameobas. I then legacyed his Dread returns and killed him with rhinos
Game 3: I keep plains swamp volraths greencard surgical x2 as my 6 scry rhino to bottom. He goes LED looting pop LED discarding Troll as his only dredger which gets surgicaled. He then draws 2 and discards them one of witch in a imp. He tries to flashback looting and imp gets surgicaled. He was rather suprised about the second surgical. So he ends up dredge with an eventually thug that he cast and then chumped with to get into the yard. I eventually stick and atraxa and start hitting him. So he for whatever reason decided that he wanted to play 3 dread returns and 2 grislebrands. So he dreadreturns a grislebrand form a bunch bunch of stuff he hard casted(he is at 2 now). So I sack my atraxa to tower to exile his bridges and then pop deed on 8. Then played a vet. Hit him to 1. He dredged over a ameoba and a bridge. I vindicate the ameoba and decay the zombie and swing for leathal.
8-4
Round 13 Caleb scherer on storm
I got destroyed both games in game 1 he kills me on turn 2 and game 2 he finds a past before I can lock up the game.
8-5
Round 14 Miracles again
8-6
Round 15 Storm again
Was much close still died quickly game 1 but game 2 he scooped to leovold + gaddock and commented on how massacre doesnt work the way he wants it to with teeg out. Game 3 he Dark petitions for ad nauseam and I surgicaled LED in response and he went 4 and killed me the next turn when he could empty his hand enough for the infernals.
So finished 8-7 was kinda disapointing losing to food chain and painter but oh well.
List for reference
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Siege Rhino
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Vindicate
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lost Legacy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
A question to the Tireless Tracker lovers: why do you like him so much and in which matchups is he really good? I finally got around to do some testing with my GBCr Eldrazish Fit and had a spot open at the 3 CMC slot so he fitted in quite nicely. I pretty much ended up boarding him out every match. I played from the top of my hat against BRreanimator, Grixis Delver 2x, Canadian Threshold, UR Delver, Eldrazi, Cloudpost Eldrazi brew, Jund Fit. My problem is that he is either too slow (delver, combo) or too small (Eldrazi, grixis delver). In the mirror, against miracles and things like Maverick I can see how he can be good value, but I really did not like him in my testing and I was wondering if that's a playstyle thing, I'm using him wrong, just bad matchups or whatever. Some insight would be nice.
Regarding Nissa, Vital Force, she has been great. Best (universal) Nic Fit suggestion this thread has produced in quite some time. I initially ran a Reality Smasher but was underwhelmed with it to begin with, so she made for a great substitute making 5/5 hasters. Although lacking trample, she's just much better in every other way. I'm not yet sure if I want to go to two, replacing possibly my Garruk Relentless for a second Nissa.
Tireless is good in grindy matchups, like mirakels, D&T, Grixis Delver. Tireless always leaves with a clue or two before they kill it. We often have need to have manasinker and pay two mana for a card is really good. If they don't kill it, we will gain CA.Quote:
Originally Posted by UseLess
I really want another Tireless in the deck.
You may be using Tracker incorrectly. It's great that the card is green but it's not something you ever want to GSZ for, that's some of the logic behind running multiples so that you actually draw into them. As a threat it's slow, and it's not all that strong as an attacker or blocker. However, where it shines is in generating CA. A single fetchland generates 2 cards. I find that if Tracker isn't answered it's almost always good for 3-6 cards, while hitting the opponent. It's just solid value, giving you some small board presence with card draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by UseLess
I never take my Trackers out. I'm surprised you didn't like it in the Delver matchup because that's one of it's best situations.
I like tracker because he simply has to be answered or else he will take over a game. Same as others, I rarely GSZ for him but might if I don't have anything else going on and have a fetch or land in hand. Doesn't take much investment before he can be a 5/4 and trade with Smasher, TKS, Angler, other annoyances. Even against storm or combo it's nice to play him out and then have both a clock and a source of card draw to help dig towards more discard and disruption (although I'm on Jund Sneak so I have few hatebears at my disposal to GSZ for - also I can do Bellower->Tracker if Empath or E Witness isn't going to be better at the time). Sometimes I'll side one of my two out if I need specific sideboard cards in and don't have much else to take out.
It's worth noting also that Tracker is one of the best cards you can draw to compliment early disruption against a combo deck. Not many other 3-drops draw you into more disruption while presenting a fast clock. My success rate against infect, storm, and reanimator is significantly higher in games where a Tracker hits than games with a scavenging ooze or a rhino.
Tracker works as our "Bob", just need a 4th land to be effective. Almost never board it out in any matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
Bob does a pretty good Bob impression in this deck too. He's loads of fun with SDT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
Yeah, I might say so myself. [emoji12]Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...d=1#post987415
Link to the new primer / thread, in case any of you have this specific thread bookmarked and didn't know it got posted.