[Deck] Goblins

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angel882

Faster alternative for K.Grip could be Nature's Claim. You don't need to leave three mana open each turn. I used to play N.Claim in my meta when I was worried about E.Plague because the splid second wasn't needed against black decks. But against UW and Omni decks I'm not sure is it safe to rely always on that they don't have any counterspells when you are playing your N.Claim.

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I can´t believe I will say that but.. the problem is Cavern of Souls. Now that we play 4 copies of it + 4 AEther vial, is very hard to get stuff countered, so they keep a lot of counters in their hands, just wainting to you play any non-gobbo card. Ok, sometimes they can SB their counters off, because of cavern, but they could also keep thinking in your SB. So, since I belive that the problem today are U and UW decks with enchantments, I really like to rely on a uncounterble spell =]

I understand that if we think this way everytime, our SB options are basically only goblins.. and I guess its not worth either. The problem is this, against UW sancturary or Omnitell, you can not afford to have your answer countered, because they kill fast after their pieces are on the table.

There is another option that I like, Reverent Silence, that you can cast for free with u have a taiga in play. But I think is more like a tech, the first time you use they probably let their counters on SB, in the second time they pull the counters back in the MD.. I really dont think this is worth enought =/

Cya

very quick and brief report: 8 man, lost to elf ball, drew with stoneblade, won against zoo.

key moments:

- against elfball lost game one on turn 3, and on game two i had needle for symbiote, chalice at one, and still lost due to mana screw... had mulled to 6 and kept a hand with hate. lost to the elves that cost 2 beating my face. he also had a turn two white enchantment that gave all his creatures protection from red, which made my pyrokinesis dead draws.

- against stoneblade, racing against batterskull three games, I lost the first, won the second, and ghostly prison game three bought him enough time to hold a draw after five turns. he was left with 4 life even after double siege-gangs, just because his batterskull won so much life. I may have a fault on the game going so long beucase I was trying to keep him off of white mana since turn four with a rishadan port. But had I left him open I would be dead even earlier. he did have a window to stoneforge for batterskull and put it into play, though.

enchantments and equipment are really really annoying, and playing the white splash didn't help as much as I expected.

cheers.

Greetings,

Well, in order to start that report I talked about, I wanted to first say some things...

I have not played with Goblins for a while, for I was having some fun with my Elfball deck, until UW Miracle got pretty popular and spoiled my fun. So I decided to play again with Goblins, that was having a good match against Miracle.
I bought 2x Cavern of Souls and I borrowed the other 2x, and then tried to figure out this deck's discussion updates.

I was pointed here again by ScatmanX (thanks to that!), that replied to my question on a brazilian forum, maybe two weeks ago or so, about the use of Krosan Grip vs. Seal of Primordium on SB.

So, I have read, some pages back, the reports from the tests that some members have run (ScatmanX, jrw1985, among others) of the performance of some card options.
I must say that I profited from these a lot, and I tweaked my list to the following:

MAINDECK:

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Mountain

4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Chieftain
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander


SIDEBOARD:


3 Pyrokinesis
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Confusion in the Ranks
3 Krosan Grip



Albeit accordingly to jrw1985, “W splash > G splash”, at the moment I have access solely to the G splash, hence, I chose to run Krosan Grips on the SB, since they might be broader/better than Seal of Primordium. (Split second is strong against some things).

I took this list to the “Open Central Magic 5K”, a Legacy tournament (with R$5.000,00 worth of prizes) that was held on the same day and on a nearby room of where ScatmanX was playing the Top8 for the Brazilian (Legacy) Nationals. (But unfortunatelly I could not meet Scatman personally).

On the tournament I played, there were 93 players and it lasted 7 rounds.


Below, there is a report on my matches:

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R1) Merfolk

G1: I start on the play, and mull to 6. T1: Cavern of Souls into Lackey. He plays a Cursecatcher.T2: I play a land and Gempalm his Catcher, lackeying a SGC into play. He plays a land and Silvergill Adept. T3: I sac. a token to SGC to remove his blocker, and lackey a Sharpshooter into play. He concedes.WIN.

>> SB: -1 TSH, -1 Vial or MWM (probablly this last one), / +2 REB

G2: I mull to 6. T1: He plays Cavern and Cursecatcher. I play Cavern and Lackey. T2: He Wastes my Cavern, attack, and plays a second Cursecatcher. I waste his Cavern. Then, we both fail to find a colored manasource for each and play Draw-Go for about 6 turns, with him attacking me with one of his Cursecatchers and leaving the other to block my Lackey. I get to 14 life, but at this point I have drawn a Rishadan Port and after this a Fetchland, so I Gempalm his blocker and then Lackey a SGC into play. Next turn I sac a token with SGC to remove the other blocker and Lackey a Sharpshooter into play. Since he still has no lands, he concedes. WIN.

This Match: 2 x 0
1 – 0

R2)OmniTell

G1: I think I kept the 7, being on the play. T1: I start with Mountain and Vial. He plays a land and maybe a cantrip. I play Port and keep porting him at his upkeep for the next several turns, while vial gets counters and puts in play: Skirk Prospector, Lackey, Piledriver, and one or two other goblins. He eventually SnT into a Griselbrand, and I put a random goblin into play. He attacks me with the Griselbrand for two turns. I get some more goblins. At the turn-passing I get concentrated calculating if I could kill him next turn and forgot to port him during his upkeep (He might have played faster at this point, to “deceives me” into this. I don’t know). So he is able to Burning Wish for a Piroclasm and plays it the same turn, emptying my board. I had 6 life, and had a Krenko in play, but his tokens would die too if it was activated in response to the Piroclasm. Next turn, with only a Krenko to face his Griselbrand, and no relevant draw, I concede. LOST.

>> SB: -4 Gempalm, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Sharpshooter, -1TSH, -1MWM / +3 Confusion in the Ranks, +3 Krosan Grip, +2 REB

G2: I hesitantly keeps an initial hand with 7 that includes a CitR, a KG, a Port, a Cavern, and other lands. Yes, there were no goblins but hate. He eventually Snt into an Omniscience, but I have the CitR to steal it. I play for free some goblins I have drawn on the first turns, and I play a Piledriver with Cavern to protect it. (I guess this was the point when one of my OmniTell opponents “innocently” reminds me that I can play my goblins without paying its’ costs, since I controll Omniscience. I thanked him for the “hint”, but payed for it for it anyway, to avoid his possible counterspell). My board is full and takes half his life in one attack. He draws and concedes. (He was very surprised by the CitR, and called the judge to confirm that this trick worked, asking if it was not like Phantasmal Image, that does not have a Triggered Ability, but a Replacement Effect when it comes into play. The judge confirms the play in my favor, of course – I am thankful for having well-prepared judges on this tournament!). WIN.

>>SB: the same

G3: I keep my 7, with: Cavern, Port, Fetchland, Lackey, REB, Krenko and Ringleader. Cavern gets Lackey that gets Ringleader and other goblins into play, while I keep porting him. I got a Piledriver and a full board for a next turn kill. He draws and concedes. (I did not use the REB here, but my opponent said it would not have mattered anyway, since he had a backup FoW. My luck was that he had a very slow hand and I proceeded fast.) WIN.

This Match: 2 x 1
2 – 0

R3) ShowMyOmniDream (?!) -> A crazy combo mix of OmniTell with Dream Halls

G1: Although I kept a fast hand with T1 Lackey into Warchief and Piledriver to join the battle, the turn before he would be dead he SnT into Omniscient and do his crazy combo (several chains of Conflux + Intuition + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn + Cruel Ultimatum in an order and recurrence that I do not remember). LOST.

>> SB: -4 Gempalm, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Sharpshooter, -1TSH, -1MWM / +3 Confusion in the Ranks, +3 Krosan Grip, +2 REB

G2: This one was a long and tricky game (to my thinking, at least). I kept a 6-7 hand with: REB, Krosan Grip, Lackey, Warchief, 2 lands. I play Lackey, that puts Warchief into play, and I keep R open for REB. He casts a Propaganda, but after some thinking (it would slow me down too much, and get him plenty of time to assemble his combo), I REB’ed it. I attack again, but I think I did not have another goblin to put into play. He plays another Propaganda. On my turn, with only two lands I pay :2: to attack with Warchief. He draws and or cantrips or do nothing. I get another land and, after some long thinking, use Krosan Grip on his Propaganda, then attack with Warchief and Lackey, putting another Lackey into play. At this point I already have drawn CitR. Another attack with my Warchief and 2x Lackeys leaves him at 8. He plays another Propaganda – WTF?!. I think I do not attack and Rishadan Port-him for a turn or two, but he SnT into Omniscience, that was, fortunately, stealed by my CitR. (If I remember it right, he too called the judge to confirm CitR’s interactions). (I don’t remember if the following plays took me just one or two of my turns to occur, but…) with Omniscience at my control, I cast a free Ringleader that drew some goblins, including another Ringleader. I cast the second (also free) Ringleader, that drew some other goblins and revealed to him some of my SB hate (that went to the bottom of library). I don’t remember if I happened to draw and cast a third free Ringleader, but I ended up with so much goblins and tokens on the battlefield (including a haste lord), that they did not fit properly at my side of the table! I cast almost everything from my hand – freely! - , leaving me just with a Matron and another Confusion in the Ranks I had draw. I was thinking of what could I do to win this same turn, since I knew he would try to combo again/do something naughty his next turn. However, I could not attack since I had not enough untapped lands, and hence could not pay the Propaganda’s tax for my goblins. (***EDIT: Since I had another CitR in hand, I could try to cast it for free to try to steal his Propaganda and be free to attack, but I was unsure of how the triggers and decisionmaking would end up, since there would be "(Too much!) Confusion in the Ranks!" - BA-DUM-TSS !. So I avoided this line of play to not have things go out of my control). I then cast the Matron, thinking for a long time, resigned, that maybe I should just fetch for a Stingscourger to try to bounce his next creature threat… when suddenly, searching my library… WHOA! I see my foil Skirk Prospector shining in the middle of my deck. That’s it! Even before I did the maths, I chose to grab him with the Matron. (This could be a mistake. I should have done the maths first, right?). I then do the maths two or three times to be sure, casted the Skirk Prospector (maybe using a Cavern to protect it; don’t remember), and then announces: I need to attack you with five goblins, including Piledriver, to kill you. Here are the goblins (Piledriver, Chieftain, 2x-3 Ringleaders, ?). And here are the :10: mana tax for them: I tap my last untapped R-source, and sac another 9 goblins to Skirk Prospector’s ability. I end up only with the attackers, Prospector, and maybe another goblin or two on the board. He checks it, but yeah, this game is mine. WIN.

>> SB: the same

G3: I mull to 4, I guess. He asks: -“Are you mulling into that enchantment?”. I answer: “-Maybe. That would be good.” But besides searching for my SB, I was throwing away some very unkeepable hands. So I ended up keeping a hand with: Fetchland, Lackey, CitR and another goblin (maybe Ringleader), and taking some time to keep it, to try to “mind-trick” him into me not having the hate. Turned it maybe had some effect upon him, since the turn he was able do SnT, he took a long time deciding if he would cast it or not, fearing the answer I could have on my hand. (Maybe I was leaving R open too, to bluff a REB). Turned out he casted the SnT, and I stole it with Confusion in the Ranks, as planned. No notes taken after this point. WIN.

This Match: 2 x 1
3 – 0

… CONTINUATION ...

Until now I was very satisfied and anxious, thinking that with this opening on the tournament I had chances to get Top-8 and prizes.

But then, hereafter, things start to change.

R4) Junk

I have not taken notes of this match, because we ran out of time and we were two of the last players to finish the match, and so, the next match started very fast. All I have is some notion of the course that the games took.

G1: I start with a Skirk Prospector as 1st drop, that eats a Swords to Plowshares (people are aware of how good Prospector is against their Batteskull/Jitte). I soon have another goblin Plowshared (probably Warchief). He Thoughtseizes me something. I am able to get some goblins online and get a Ringleader to play the card advantage route, which gets me there. WIN.
I realized after the match, that at this point I was very overconfident, a very dangerous state of mind, since I am more likely to not “play tight” and hence do some missplays – what actually happened.

>>SB: -??? / +3 Krosan Grip

G2: He starts by fetching and Thoughtseizeing me, probably making me discard a Krosan Grip. He gets an early Stoneforge Mystic that fetches for a Umezawa’s Jitte or a Batterskull (I don’t remember which one, because he ended up having both). I try to build my board position, but with the constant threat of the equipments, I slowly lose ground to him. Time is about to end, and I am loosing, so I realize I could try to hold him back just some more turns, to draw this game and win the match (Do you consider it “unfair play"?). I try to maintain my blockers, but it’s hard, since Jitte helps clean my board. "5-turn countdown" is announced. “- If I could last just two more turns…”. I do not think "hard enough" and, calculating my life loss progression, I decide to not block one of his big threats (Batterskull or Knight of the Relicary), to use my remaining Mogg War Marshal’s tokens to block his bigger threat next turn (preventing a greater life loss). Poor decision was that one, since Jitte got more counters and kills these potential blockers. Next turn I block one of his big threats again and decide to save one last blocker to block it later, not blocking the Stoneforge. Again, poor decision! In my anxiety, I got distracted and forgot that my opponent had equipped now Stoneforge with his Jitte. And since Stoneforge was not blocked, my opponent used Jitte’s counters to boost Stoneforge’s power to garantee my deathLOST.
This Match: 1 x 1
3 – 0 – 1

:frown: If I had played more "tightly", I could have lasted the 5-turn countdown and won this match. I get a little disappointed but still confident. After all, I guessed I could win “just” two more matches and could draw the last one, and still have chances of getting Top-8.

R5) Goblin mirror

G1: I start with Cavern to Lackey. He mirrors my T1 play. I don’t get enough gas, and he’s the first one to get a Matron for Sharpshooter. He cleans my board and is free to stomp. LOST.

>>SB: -1x Tin Street Hooligan, -?? / +3 Pyrokinesis

G2: I start with Lackey. He gets a blocker for it, but I Gempalm his blocker, connect with Lackey, and drops Siege-Gang Commander on T2. I dominate the battlefield for some turns, and as a last effort, he drops a Goblin Pyromancer… WTF?! He explains he’ll use it as a Wrath of God. I think for a while and since I don’t think I have any answer, at the end of turn all our goblins are destroyed. He gets a goblin or two in play, but since I have a full hand, I re-stablish faster and I am able to finish him. WIN.
(At the end of the match, he reminds me that since Pyromancer’s second ability is a static ability that generates a triggered ability, if it gets destroyed before the end of the turn, the "destroy-ability" won't trigger, and the other goblins will stay alive. In fact, at the moment I did have a way to destroy his Pyromancer, but was not aware of this interacion. Well, playing and learning…)

>>SB: -1x Tin Street Hooligan, -1-2 Lackey, ? / +3 Pyrokinesis

G3: I keep mulling some horrible hands and start with 3 cards and no lands: 2x Warchief and a Chieftain. Yeah, I already lost there. My first two draws are a :R:-land and a Lackey, so I try to get in the game, but my Pyrokinesis takes too much time to shows up, and I can’t compete with his full board. LOST.
This Match: 1 x 2
3 – 1 – 1

After I mulled down to 3 on this last game, I think that I should have kept my 7 or 6-cards hand, since one of these had some lands and goblins, albeit being a slow hand.

Maybe I try to mulligan to “fast hands” too aggressively that it spoils some games.

At this point I start moving from feeling “slightly disappointed” to “almost depressed”.

R6) Goblin mirror (another one)

I don’t like this guy. I don’t know why, but I just do not have any will to “chat” with him while we await for the round to begin.
Also, this was such a bad-lucky and ugly match, that I did not have any wish to take notes once it’s over.

G1: I mull to 5, with a “nothing special”-hand. He have early removal and dominates the board. I cannot get back to the game. LOST.

>>SB: -1x Tin Street Hooligan, -?? / +3 Pyrokinesis

G2: I mull to 5 or 4, but I do not get any good hands. I keep several turns just “waiting” for the necessary lands, since a Wasteland and a Rishadan Port from him disrupt me very much. At one of his turns he pays some mana and puts some goblins in play. Then he tries to untap his Port (used to pay for a goblin) and taps another land, to keep his Port free. “-No, you cannot do this”, I say. “-I am just arranging my lands”, he tries to get away with it. “-You are trying to correct the way in which you used your mana to cast the goblin, in order to keep your Port untapped to use it against me. You cannot change your past actions.” After all, we are not playing in a “for fun” Rules Enforcement Level. He gives up his "undoing". I got some time to get some goblins, but his army is full. He moves to the Attack phase. I’ll try to get rid of some of his attacking goblins with a Pyrokinesis. I ask which are the attacking creatures. He taps them. I try to Pyrokinesis several of them before his Piledriver triggers, but this needed to be done at the Beginning of the Combat Step. I try to do it anyways, but he doesn’t permit it, for I have implied we had already moved to the Declare Attackers Step. Fair enough. I wanted him to “play right” so I should not have wanted to “undo” any action of mine. Shame on me. But it didn’t change the course of the game. Pyrokinesis removed some of his (other) attackers, but he had gas for another big blast. Too bad for me. LOST.
This Match: 0 x 2 <-- What an ugly result! : (
3 – 2 – 1

At this point I was feeling depressed (for having lost all my chances of top-8-ing) and ashamed (for trying to “undo” one of my actions in the game) .

So, since “it was over”, I decided to play the last one just “for fun”.

R7)Zoo

G1: He starts with Forest and Wil Nacatl, that maintains my Lackey at a distance. This slows my game, and soon he has some big creatures that take over the board. LOST.

>>SB: -1x Tin Street Hooligan, -1x Aether Vial, ? / +3 Pyrokinesis

G2: I start with Lackey. He starts with Grim Lavamancer. I still don’t have my second land. So, I reluctantly use my Pyrokinesis to clear the path to my Lackey. (I don’t know, it seemed “wrong” to me to “waste” 3 extra points of damage and another card, but it seemed more important to make sure that Lackey’s first attack connects). He casts another Lavamancer. I draw a land and now I am able to cast Stingscourger, bounce his Lavamancer, and make Lackey connects again. I dominate the board and this game is mine. WIN.

>>SB: the same

G3: There’s little time left. He's on the play, but I am able to rely on my removals to gain terrain and compete. The 5-round countdown is announced. I think I can race him, but for each of his creatures that I remove, he draws and casts another one. He has enough blockers for my attackers to succeed, and he stays at 13 life before the countdown ends.
This Match: 1 x 1
3 – 2 – 2

Still depressed, but I moved from feeling ashamed to feeling “worthless”. “- How is it that I could not finish him on this last game?” I had board advantage, but failed to get explosiveness on time.

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RESULTS:
My results: 3 - 2 - 2
My final position: 30°

…

And that’s it.
Now, some… thoughts/questions:

1) What do you guys think is “better”?: You’re facing an unknown match. It’s the first turn of the first game. You start on the play, and a have a hand with Vial, Port-or-Wasteland, Fetch-or-Mountain, among other non-Lackey goblins. To play the Vial, would you use the Port/Wasteland, or use a Fetchland/Mountain? (i.e.: Would you prefer to reveal that you have a mana-denial tool (and let him fetch lands “safer”), or reveal that you are playing Goblins (and let him plan his play accordingly?). I chose to use the Mountain on R2-G1, but wanted to know what you think about it.

2) Mirror matchs I did not remember which cards I sided out on the mirror match, since I did not have a clear plan on that situation. What would you guys recommend?

3) Mulling decicions: I realized I was into a “play style” where I moved from “keeping any hands that had 2-3 lands and some goblins”, to try to get “fast hands” (castable T1 play + removal). This probably is harassing me on the long run. What tips do you have for me to “find the balance”?

4) Anxiety and distraction: I always have plenty of them! At some games I have my hands shaking so much that I fear dropping my cards on the ground. And this seriously is harassing my performance. How do you, experienced players, handle this?

5) Anything else…?

Hope you enjoyed.
And sorry for the long post.

Sincerely,

- André

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

I hope the reading is not boring until now.

See you later.

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I am cenrtainly enjoying it. Bring on the 2nd part.
Sad to realise we did not meedt. next tournament I'll pm you.
Rock on against SnT. My only issue when winning against it, is that it might take longer for them to ban the f***** card.

I discussed SB a little with some other users against Merfolk. We did not reach a concenssus on what was the best approach, but I want to state what I would do in your position with your decklist: -1 Chieftain, -1 Stingscourger, +2 ReB.

@Cleston: Qhat did you used on you W Splash?

Just for the record, on my next tournament I'll try a Rbg build, MD weird as hell, with this SB:
1 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Pyrokinesis

1 Surgical
3 Relic of Progenitus

2 Krosan Grip

2 Engineered Explosives
4 Duress / Combo hate
Too weird, or might actually be promissing?

@ScatmanX: I like very much gempalm against merfolk, since they usually dont run stifle but a couple of counters, gempalm gets their lords. Well, correct me if I am wrong but, merfolk is like a tempo deck, they use their lords as a quick clock, and their "cheap" counters to evade the early problems, trying to win very early. So, some blocks with MWM, followed by caverns + goblins, shouldnt be enough?

About your list, I really like black in goblins, my question is: your rgb build seems to be interested in Engineered Explosives, well, how would you use them? Because, they will usually cost between 2 and 3 mana to cast, more 2 to activate, so, usually 4~5 mana. I really like to know your motivation to use it, after all, you always bring us some interesting thought.

@andrebonotto: I want part 2! I am so happy that I got my CitR, seriosly, the plays you guys tell... I really want to do the same hahaahha

Cya.

here's for part 2 and for more about engineered explosives.

I find myself tapping out most of the time, so I'm not OK with leaving mana open (reason why I'm not a fan of Krosan Grip).

@ScatmanX: I played 3 thalias MD, as well 4 rest in peace and 3 pieces of Oblivion Rings in SB (as an out to SnT). But I guess that even if oblivion were disenchants they would'nt solve my problem, as I never drew them. Against elf ball and zoo Thalias were sided out for 3 Pyrokinesis. Against blade I sided them out plus sharpshooter for Oblivion plus second siegegang.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by max_goblin

@ScatmanX: I like very much gempalm against merfolk, since they usually dont run stifle but a couple of counters, gempalm gets their lords. Well, correct me if I am wrong but, merfolk is like a tempo deck, they use their lords as a quick clock, and their "cheap" counters to evade the early problems, trying to win very early. So, some blocks with MWM, followed by caverns + goblins, shouldnt be enough?

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Thats about it. once you get about 4 goblins on the table, with a healthy total of life, you should win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by max_goblin

About your list, I really like black in goblins, my question is: your rgb build seems to be interested in Engineered Explosives, well, how would you use them? Because, they will usually cost between 2 and 3 mana to cast, more 2 to activate, so, usually 4~5 mana. I really like to know your motivation to use it, after all, you always bring us some interesting thought.

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Just want to test Explosives, don't really know hoy they play out. Once I do some testing, I'll post something.

** Phew **

It took me a while to finish the report. But there it is. Thanks for the support for me to finish it. :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

(...)
I discussed SB a little with some other users against Merfolk. We did not reach a concenssus on what was the best approach, but I want to state what I would do in your position with your decklist: -1 Chieftain, -1 Stingscourger, +2 ReB.
(...)

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Well, now that you brought this up, I remembered that I certainly did not side out Stingsourger, because I wanted him to possibly bounce a flying Coralhelm Commander. What I sided out was or a Vial or a MWM (probably this last one). (I'll correct it in my report).

I did not want to side out the Chieftain because he could make my goblins "pair up" closer to his pumped merfolks, if we played the long game. And the haste bonus is always atractive to me (more so because I was running a Krenko), because it makes it easier to catch the merfolk player "off guard" on a counter attack.

Don't you miss the Chieftain's pump bonus on this match?

...

Also, yeah, next time I play at a tournament at São Paulo, I'll PM you! :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by max_goblin

(...)
@andrebonotto: I want part 2! I am so happy that I got my CitR, seriosly, the plays you guys tell... I really want to do the same hahaahha

Cya.

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Yeah, CitR really made me euphoric with some game states! :laugh: There were even some judges that were taking pictures of my board position on R3-G2, right before my finisher attack! :smile:

I know that to many, CitR seems "waste" of SB space (because of it's narrowness), but the fact was that I got aware that OmniTell was being well-played on tournaments around here. Specially the big ones. Hence I chose to focus on it on my SB.

And I know I got lucky on the combo pairings too, because if I was paired against Storm, I would not have any chances against it (since my SB was not prepared to face it).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

1) What do you guys think is “better”?: You’re facing an unknown match. It’s the first turn of the first game. You start on the play, and a have a hand with Vial, Port-or-Wasteland, Fetch-or-Mountain, among other non-Lackey goblins. To play the Vial, would you use the Port/Wasteland, or use a Fetchland/Mountain? (i.e.: Would you prefer to reveal that you have a mana-denial tool (and let him fetch lands “safer”), or reveal that you are playing Goblins (and let him plan his play accordingly?). I chose to use the Mountain on R2-G1, but wanted to know what you think about it.

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I'd play fetch into basic mountain->Aether Vial, if it sticks, cool. I'd probably play port after that and start porting and hope to draw some goblins and play off vial. I only play wasteland when I have something to target.

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

2) Mirror matchs I did not remember which cards I sided out on the mirror match, since I did not have a clear plan on that situation. What would you guys recommend?

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I'd probably cut lackey in the mirror, he seems a really weak card in the mirror. So -3 lackey, +3 Pyro

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

3) Mulling decicions: I realized I was into a “play style” where I moved from “keeping any hands that had 2-3 lands and some goblins”, to try to get “fast hands” (castable T1 play + removal). This probably is harassing me on the long run. What tips do you have for me to “find the balance”?

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I think the best way to think about it is, to ask yourself if you can stabilize with your hand, and if so, how fast can you stabilize? If you know your opponent's deck and what kind of clock it has, then you'll know if your hand is worth keeping or not if you can answer those two questions.

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

4) Anxiety and distraction: I always have plenty of them! At some games I have my hands shaking so much that I fear dropping my cards on the ground. And this seriously is harassing my performance. How do you, experienced players, handle this?

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You can fidget with your cards, shuffling them in your hands. Good read btw, I like the way you wrote your report.

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Originally Posted by FoxBlade

I'd play fetch into basic mountain->Aether Vial, if it sticks, cool. I'd probably play port after that and start porting and hope to draw some goblins and play off vial. I only play wasteland when I have something to target.

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I use to try to hide my Wastelands - more than I do it with Ports. But I don't know if it is "generally better" to play colorless lands first and try to disguise myself as a Merfolk / D&T for a turn (or two, if I have the appropriate Fetchland in hand).

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I'd probably cut lackey in the mirror, he seems a really weak card in the mirror. So -3 lackey, +3 Pyro

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This seems reasonable, since my Lackeys will not have much opportunity to connect. I find myself often being "afraid" to touch the "core cards" (and looking only to the "flex spots"), instead of thinking more pragmatically.

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I think the best way to think about it is, to ask yourself if you can stabilize with your hand, and if so, how fast can you stabilize? If you know your opponent's deck and what kind of clock it has, then you'll know if your hand is worth keeping or not if you can answer those two questions.

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Well, I sometimes got hands that could stabilize (3 lands + Matron + Warchief + others), but I was afraid of the time it would take to do it - i.e.: I could cast creatures only from T3 on. This kind of hand seemed very weak to me, because neither my Gempalm would work T2, since I would have no goblins in play.

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You can fidget with your cards, shuffling them in your hands. Good read btw, I like the way you wrote your report.

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So this is why I see so many players that just don't stop shuffling the cards on their hands? :eyebrow: I will try it out next time...

And thanks for the compliment! :smile:

Hi all,

this is the first time i'm writing on gobbos thread but i've been a "lurker" for a long time, trying to capture your ideas in order to assemble my deck at best. After many, many months without attending to a tournament, tomorrow i'm bringing this deck again to the local scene here in Bologna. My friend warned me that there are many S&T decks going around, so i wanted to be prepared to face them and i'd like to hear some suggestions from you guys :)
This is the list:

4 Wasteland
3 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Plateau
1 Taiga

4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshall
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tin-street Hooligan

Sideboard

3 Chalice of the Void
3 Rest in Peace
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Confusion in the Ranks
2 Krosan Grip
1 Relic of Progenitus(I'm missing the 4th RiP)

Also, could you please suggest me which are the best sideboard choices against main archetypes (I mean, what to pull out to make room for sb)?
Thanks for your help :)

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

I use to try to hide my Wastelands - more than I do it with Ports. But I don't know if it is "generally better" to play colorless lands first and try to disguise myself as a Merfolk / D&T for a turn (or two, if I have the appropriate Fetchland in hand).

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The way I look at it, even if you did disguise yourself for a turn, since those decks are all aggro - most decks you play against game 1 will use the same kind of strategy against all of them anyway. In other words, even if you play vial with a colorless land - they'll still try to counter or destroy it if they can and beyond that, they'll know you're playing an aggro deck and look to stabilize the board. Not only that, but your port or waste is now vulnerable to wasteland yourself, which can slow you down.

If you play your basic first - you don't have to worry about wasteland yourself and still have access to any 2 drop right after. It's a much safer play, plus they might play a nonbasic you can hit with your waste or target with your port, not knowing that you have them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

Well, I sometimes got hands that could stabilize (3 lands + Matron + Warchief + others), but I was afraid of the time it would take to do it - i.e.: I could cast creatures only from T3 on. This kind of hand seemed very weak to me, because neither my Gempalm would work T2, since I would have no goblins in play.

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Well it is weak but...

Taking a mulligan has a chance of giving you a better hand, but the odds of that happening decrease with each mulligan you take (less cards you draw, less chance to get something playable).

Against combo decks that kill turns 1-4 on average, mean you have to mulligan. Against aggro and control decks you can stabilize from a slower hand and keep in mind that you're going to be drawing at least 2 more cards, so you can still potentially drop something off a draw from those 2 cards.

A Slow hand doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad hand. I love fast hands, but a mulligan doesn't increase your odds of having a fast hand, it decreases it - it just gives you another opportunity to try to get a fast hand (with less odds of actually getting it).

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

4) Anxiety and distraction: I always have plenty of them! At some games I have my hands shaking so much that I fear dropping my cards on the ground. And this seriously is harassing my performance. How do you, experienced players, handle this?

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There are several ways to shake off you nervousity.
You should learn some kind of ritual that you can go through before each match. My ritual , for example, is shuffling the deck in a very specific way - and also for a longer time than most players. This whole thing gives you some time to calm down AND you have something like a save place...something familar, something you know. That's quite important.
Another things would be to figure out if you get nervous by (1) talking to your opponent or by (2) not taking to him/her. So, if you feel like some casual talk would help you, you might just do that.
A quite specific advice to shake off your nervousity during the game: if it is your opponent's turn, you can just lay down your cards face-down and watch your opponent closely. This has 3 advantages: (1) you dont risk to drop your cards on the floor, (2) you will get a very good picture of the game per-se (like: how long did my opponent think about the brainstorm; is he nervous/anxious/distressed) and (3) your opponent wont be able to cheat on you easily.

Hi!!

I am not a goblins player by any means but has anyone ever built a "combo" list with a focus on stingscourger, mogg war marshal, skirk prospector to reuse krenko and ringleader? Sort of a gobvantage style like the old days?

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Hi!!

I am not a goblins player by any means but has anyone ever built a "combo" list with a focus on stingscourger, mogg war marshal, skirk prospector to reuse krenko and ringleader? Sort of a gobvantage style like the old days?

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Stingscourger so no ;-)

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Originally Posted by andrebonotto

1) What do you guys think is “better”?: You’re facing an unknown match. It’s the first turn of the first game. You start on the play, and a have a hand with Vial, Port-or-Wasteland, Fetch-or-Mountain, among other non-Lackey goblins. To play the Vial, would you use the Port/Wasteland, or use a Fetchland/Mountain? (i.e.: Would you prefer to reveal that you have a mana-denial tool (and let him fetch lands “safer”), or reveal that you are playing Goblins (and let him plan his play accordingly?). I chose to use the Mountain on R2-G1, but wanted to know what you think about it.

3) Mulling decicions: I realized I was into a “play style” where I moved from “keeping any hands that had 2-3 lands and some goblins”, to try to get “fast hands” (castable T1 play + removal). This probably is harassing me on the long run. What tips do you have for me to “find the balance”?

4) Anxiety and distraction: I always have plenty of them! At some games I have my hands shaking so much that I fear dropping my cards on the ground. And this seriously is harassing my performance. How do you, experienced players, handle this?

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this was a nice read.

1) Turn 1 Vial is one of the best plays we have against most of the field, even more if followed by turn 2 port. FoxBlade pretty much got it covered, I guess.

3) Besides the obvious keeps, I find myself keeping hands with two lands and a Mogg War Marshall more often than I should. It's just that he's so amazing at stabilizing and protecting life total. Slow hands with mana disruption are also a keep to me, though they put me in the control route (ex: 3 lands, one of them being rishadan port, and no turn 1 play)

4) Long time ago, when Decipher's Lord of the Rings had a very serious competitive scene around here, I lost on a final of a huge tournament due to something like that. I remember by the time using those cheap soft sleeves, and my hand sweat actually glued my cards in a way that was terrible to draw, shuffle and handle. I skipped a key trigger, passed the turnn, and that was about it. How did I solve this problem? Have I actually solved it at all? I don't really know the answer, but going through this kind of situation certainly helps you prevent yourself from falling onto it again next time. Just keep playing, I guess, and eventually it should span out.

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Originally Posted by FoxBlade

The way I look at it, even if you did disguise yourself for a turn, since those decks are all aggro - most decks you play against game 1 will use the same kind of strategy against all of them anyway. In other words, even if you play vial with a colorless land - they'll still try to counter or destroy it if they can and beyond that, they'll know you're playing an aggro deck and look to stabilize the board. Not only that, but your port or waste is now vulnerable to wasteland yourself, which can slow you down.

If you play your basic first - you don't have to worry about wasteland yourself and still have access to any 2 drop right after. It's a much safer play, plus they might play a nonbasic you can hit with your waste or target with your port, not knowing that you have them.

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You have a good reasoning there. I am convinced. :smile:

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On the mulliganing issue...

@FoxBlade and @Cleston:

FoxBlade offered some helpfull words herer too. I can see now that some "not-bad-slow-hands" can be related to the presence of, besides other things, Mogg War Marshal since, as Cleston noted, "he's so amazing at stabilizing and protecting life total" - something that I often underlook, because I easily tends to take me as "the beatdown" in every match.

From now on I'll try to keep in mind more clearly FoxBlade's previous advice:

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(...) ask yourself if you can stabilize with your hand, and if so, how fast can you stabilize? If you know your opponent's deck and what kind of clock it has, then you'll know if your hand is worth keeping or not if you can answer those two questions.

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...

on the Anxiety and distraction issue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

There are several ways to shake off you nervousity.
You should learn some kind of ritual that you can go through before each match. My ritual , for example, is shuffling the deck in a very specific way - and also for a longer time than most players. This whole thing gives you some time to calm down AND you have something like a save place...something familar, something you know. That's quite important.
Another things would be to figure out if you get nervous by (1) talking to your opponent or by (2) not taking to him/her. So, if you feel like some casual talk would help you, you might just do that.
A quite specific advice to shake off your nervousity during the game: if it is your opponent's turn, you can just lay down your cards face-down and watch your opponent closely. This has 3 advantages: (1) you dont risk to drop your cards on the floor, (2) you will get a very good picture of the game per-se (like: how long did my opponent think about the brainstorm; is he nervous/anxious/distressed) and (3) your opponent wont be able to cheat on you easily.

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Very usefull advices here too. I must seek how to establish my "comfort zone" when playing matches on a tournament.

In general, I'm not an easygoing/easytalking person (Internet may alleviate this) so, in general, I think I would prefer not to talk to my opponent. However, I kind of feel "pressed" to do it - so that I am not taken for a "arrogant jerk" or something.

But I'll try to balance it more.

"Watching my opponent closely", though, is something that can work. Notes taken on it too.

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P.S.: I'd like to thank the creator and participants of this thread in general. It happens that I learned so much of this deck by reading the discussions here and, once in a while, writing something/raising some questions. Your feedback is great! :smile:

About anxiety in playing magic : apart from the fact that this thread is becoming a psychologist office :) , i think that everyone should always remember that magic is a card GAME.
I mean, sometimes I'm anxious too while playing, but then I just remember that I'm doing it to have fun.
You can be competitive, you can win great prizes and spend a lot of time/money on magic.... but never forget you're simply playing a game, and this is meant to have fun. Excessive competition and/or anxiety is one of the things that make people stop playing magic.

Hello there! Yesterday I finished 3rd in a local tournament with about 28+ people with a Rwg list for Thalias, RIP and Krosan in SB and nothing MD.

I Beat BUG with shamans, ANT and Bant, and I lost against RUG Delver. What do you guys think about the MU against RUG / Canadian? I think it is a bit hard, but the problem is just the delver, you just normally have 3-4 Gempalm and a Sharpshooter to deal with it in the MD, but they have stifle por Gempalm and SS is usually too slow so when you realise the delver has killed you.