Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jain_Mor
Oh awesome, I asked how many times you've cast it in testing or real play and the only time you mentions was 10 years ago :P
Is it actually "great" against shardless? It counters suspended visions but shardless agent can just hit a creature and then it doesn't do anything. I get that it cantrips but there's still a mana investment there.
I am sold on it against various combo decks (buying a turn and digging for answers against elves is legit)
If it actually starts doing work as a counterspell against miracles then I'll really be sold :)
I didn't count the number of games we did...
Was just saying it's been 10 years since the last time I've played with Abeyance in a Legacy deck.
Anyway, the card is "average" to "outstanding" so far. Obviously preventing a miracle spell from being cast is like "saving" the cheerleader !
To be honest we have also considered "Orim's chant" as well but finally elected Abeyance:
- The kick cost could also be handy against aggro deck but requires WW
- 1 CMC is easier than 2 CMC (especially against combo)
- But the fact that Abeyance is at least a cantrip was the edge we were looking for.
So far the card is great against combo & control and almost dead against aggro. But we usually have a not so bad matchup against aggro deck to begin with.
Test it and tell me what you think !
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Yea I like the theory, I was trying something similar previously with hallowed moonlight.. Works against many combo decks and entreat, but I found holding up mana really awkward.
But countering terminus is something moonlight couldn't do, so I will be testing this
Also, who is "we" :P is there a secret Ralf nic fit playgroup, or are you talking about other players on the source?
Edit: this is a question for everyone on MODO, are there any legacy testing clans online? Like is there anywhere I can go to find players to test with / against online?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fatal
With GSZ around and Therapy self-exiled, it's really quite rare having 4 types in gy - most common in my GBC build:
- Land (enough)
- Creature (enough)
- Sorceries (4 Self-exiling, 4 GSZ - read non)
- Instants (3 MD/a lot of in SB)
- Enchantment (4 MD)
- Artifact (5 MD/where 2 of are creatures)
- Walkers (1-2 MD)
I think it can work in some BUG decks with Hymn to Tourach/Permission decks/Walker decks.
I agree that BUG seems the natural fit here. Strix is an easy way to get another type with artifact and land/creature are easy. So the only real issue is if you can get another type. Sorcery is out because Therapy exilies and GSZ doesn't go to the GY, but Instant is probably doable, moving away from Pulse and towards more instant removal could do it.
Actually, BUG has a big problem with GSZ frequently clashing with it because of the need for Green creatures while BUG really pushes you towards blue. I think this card could fully replace GSZ in BUG builds. Personally, I really like the idea of using this to find Snapcaster/Eternal Witness, casting that, and then getting the tutor back to find something again.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jain_Mor
Yea I like the theory, I was trying something similar previously with hallowed moonlight.. Works against many combo decks and entreat, but I found holding up mana really awkward.
But countering terminus is something moonlight couldn't do, so I will be testing this
Also, who is "we" :P is there a secret Ralf nic fit playgroup, or are you talking about other players on the source?
Edit: this is a question for everyone on MODO, are there any legacy testing clans online? Like is there anywhere I can go to find players to test with / against online?
I don't know of any testing clans, but let's start one.
I have shardless bug and bug delver (hymn version). My username on there is Adelorenzi. I can usually test in the mornings (pacific time)
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
That new Sorin looks pretty neat.
I might have to give my Summoner's Egg build another go. +1 Sorin into Emrakul. EDH..? Nah, welcome to the thunderdome, bitch.
And yes, I know what Erratic Explosion is and that I'm magical christmaslanding ad absurdum. Just let me have this one, ok..?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I don't see a problem with Sorin. At 2BW he's obviously busted to hell, but I honestly think they could have pushed him at 5 mana.
+1 is obviously good since you can stack stuff with Tops, and you get more cards. How's about putting Rhino into your hand, then casting it later? Jeez.
-X kills a Jace that's been on the field for one turn. It's no Vraska -3 for sure, but it's also removal. It's a 6-mana nug 6, gain 6 at the very least, and it's future crowd control if you play it into a wiped board. Plus, life gain. Moar lifegains.
-9 is probably irrelevant. I would have preferred something else for sure.
Overall, he's worth at least TRYING. Against Miracles he seems insane, especially if you're still on the Carpet plan and are powering him out. Dat card advantage engine sure is sweet.
-Matt
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Also, I still have a hard-on for Garruk Apex Predator, but 7 mana is insane. I'd pay 5 for him, gladly. Even at 1GGBB.
-Matt
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Also, I still have a hard-on for Garruk Apex Predator, but 7 mana is insane. I'd pay 5 for him, gladly. Even at 1GGBB.
-Matt
It's always nice to hear what gives another man his hard-on. Thank you for sharing.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
That new Sorin looks pretty neat.
I might have to give my Summoner's Egg build another go. +1 Sorin into Emrakul. EDH..? Nah, welcome to the thunderdome, bitch.
And yes, I know what
Erratic Explosion is and that I'm magical christmaslanding ad absurdum. Just let me have this one, ok..?
Haha you and that damn egg have a weird relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Also, I still have a hard-on for Garruk Apex Predator, but 7 mana is insane. I'd pay 5 for him, gladly. Even at 1GGBB.
-Matt
yeah, I wish he weren't so much mana or atleast one of his abilities wasn't borderline useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
It's always nice to hear what gives another man his hard-on. Thank you for sharing.
You gotta know what they like so you can give the best holiday present since most of us live in magical Christmas land.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I hear matt likes porsche's maybe you can get the whole thread one for christmas ricardo?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Or getting Siege Rhinos altered into Cobras like in Age of Empires II. ;)
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
This is actually hard. Deed, Removal (instant/sorc), fetchlands, creatures...the potential is there. The payoff is actually bonkers: you go from basic land to 1 of any land/creature of your choice. That's a tremendous payoff for G w/ the delirium trigger.
I'm conflicted on Sorin. His abilities are like EVERYTHING you could want.
+1: card advantage, possibly close out games off lifeloss
-X: defends himself, removes PWers
Ult: win the game, insult your opponent with the lifeswing
...but he costs a fucking ton of mana. If he's in your list, chances are you'll need him. And if you need him, you'll need 6 mana. I can't see myself relying on a 6 drop. Nic Fit would have to ramp more and more. And if you're ramping as a core strategy, wouldn't you just play Burning Wish --> Scapeshift kill?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Warden
This is actually hard. Deed, Removal (instant/sorc), fetchlands, creatures...the potential is there. The payoff is actually bonkers: you go from basic land to 1 of any land/creature of your choice. That's a tremendous payoff for G w/ the delirium trigger.
I'm conflicted on Sorin. His abilities are like EVERYTHING you could want.
+1: card advantage, possibly close out games off lifeloss
-X: defends himself, removes PWers
Ult: win the game, insult your opponent with the lifeswing
...but he costs a fucking ton of mana. If he's in your list, chances are you'll need him. And if you need him, you'll need 6 mana. I can't see myself relying on a 6 drop. Nic Fit would have to ramp more and more. And if you're ramping as a core strategy, wouldn't you just play Burning Wish --> Scapeshift kill?
I agree with the traverse part but I disagree with the second half. So often I have the 5 mana to gsz for rhino or 6 for sigarda/rhino around daze.
6 mana is attainable in a non-combo mu setting. I think this card has what we need. Losing to jace feels bad and he deals with that. the added CA off his +1 that ALSO pressures your opponents life is amazing. I will be getting this card as soon as possible online to test. we are a midrange control deck and Sorin looks to be our Grim Ally in the fight against blue decks and they stupid patriarch, Miracles.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Warden
This is actually hard. Deed, Removal (instant/sorc), fetchlands, creatures...the potential is there. The payoff is actually bonkers: you go from basic land to 1 of any land/creature of your choice. That's a tremendous payoff for G w/ the delirium trigger.
I'm conflicted on Sorin. His abilities are like EVERYTHING you could want.
+1: card advantage, possibly close out games off lifeloss
-X: defends himself, removes PWers
Ult: win the game, insult your opponent with the lifeswing
...but he costs a fucking ton of mana. If he's in your list, chances are you'll need him. And if you need him, you'll need 6 mana. I can't see myself relying on a 6 drop. Nic Fit would have to ramp more and more. And if you're ramping as a core strategy, wouldn't you just play Burning Wish --> Scapeshift kill?
How much mana do you usually spend to pump out a GSZ'd rhino or sigarda? 5/6.
When do I want to board in PWs? Against slow/control matchups, especially miracles.
How reliably do we reach 5-6 mana in those very matchups? Very reliably because we have more time.
Did we need a PW that could win without using the battlefield AT ALL against miracles? Yes.
The card feels very, very interesting to me. Garruk and Elspeth rely on a battlefield; Ajani Mentor (the worst PW of choice, imo) is even more obsolete now with new Sorin. This guy can actually close games alone. So does JTMS, but he is blue. And rhinos aren't blue.
E: Lol Ricardio, you were faster but it seems like we think alike. That worries me, I can't deny that :laugh:
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Or getting Siege Rhinos altered into Cobras like in Age of Empires II. ;)
I still think rhinos and tusks should be bebop and rocksteady. sigarda can be april O'Neil thrun as master splinter. explorers as the turtles and deathrites as the foot. or some such nonsense...
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uncletiggy
I still think rhinos and tusks should be bebop and rocksteady. sigarda can be april O'Neil thrun as master splinter. explorers as the turtles and deathrites as the foot. or some such nonsense...
This makes me want to build Junk Nic Fit over BUG. Bebop and Rocksteady.
I wish I could alter
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Sorin seems pretty busted in control MUs. The only problem i see there is that he ain't a creature so you can't cavern it, but other than that, he win without using the battlefield, is extremely hard to remove for most decks, and can remove most other decks win conditions. Plus he win through almost everything, including things like Bridge, Chasm, Energy Field, Solitary confinement, Stasis locks or whatever you want etc...
That traverse the Unvenwald is good but i wouldn't play more than 1 of it. You have issues getting sorceries in your graveyard early on especially. And you don't want to play Lay of the Land.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
How much mana do you usually spend to pump out a GSZ'd rhino or sigarda? 5/6.
When do I want to board in PWs? Against slow/control matchups, especially miracles.
How reliably do we reach 5-6 mana in those very matchups? Very reliably because we have more time.
Did we need a PW that could win without using the battlefield AT ALL against miracles? Yes.
The card feels very, very interesting to me. Garruk and Elspeth rely on a battlefield; Ajani Mentor (the worst PW of choice, imo) is even more obsolete now with new Sorin. This guy can actually close games alone. So does JTMS, but he is blue. And rhinos aren't blue.
E: Lol Ricardio, you were faster but it seems like we think alike. That *EXCITES* me, I can't deny that :laugh:
fixed: you are welcome. haha
Also Mentor is not the worst one, h8r, albeit Garruk and Elspeth are much better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
Sorin seems pretty busted in control MUs. The only problem i see there is that he ain't a creature so you can't cavern it, but other than that, he win without using the battlefield, is extremely hard to remove for most decks, and can remove most other decks win conditions. Plus he win through almost everything, including things like Bridge, Chasm, Energy Field, Solitary confinement, Stasis locks or whatever you want etc...
That traverse the Unvenwald is good but i wouldn't play more than 1 of it. You have issues getting sorceries in your graveyard early on especially. And you don't want to play Lay of the Land.
Sorin is a bomb. We either bait with him for something better or bait for him with something weaker. OR WE JUST THERAPY THAT SOB INTO THE STONE AGE!
Traverse would be a 1 or 2 of that you really only want to resolve with delirium. Otherwise, casters beware. that shit aint good.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
What do you guys think of Traverse the Unvenwald as a one of in the sideboard? As our quasi enlighted tutor for our hatebears and karakas? Maybe we even get to play with some tidehollow skuller or sin collector (or mindslicer in the magical Christmas land)? I mean, post sideboard we get thougtseizes to up our sorcery count and surgicals for instants.
Other thing i want to ask is: if both sorin and traverse prove to be worth of the board, will it be the time to give STE the love Arianrhod always advocated for?
Enviado de meu XT1225 usando Tapatalk
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
Haha you and that damn egg have a weird relationship.
...
You gotta know what they like so you can give the best holiday present since most of us live in magical Christmas land.
The Egg and I have a history together. The oldest list I still have dates back to 2007. I believe the initial list is even older. The whole concept started before Summoner's Egg was printed, just after the release of the Onslaught block (so that's like late 2002, early 2003). In the beginning I made do with Nantuko Husk, Pattern of Rebirth and Symbiotic Wurm until I figured out Patterning into Akroma, Angel of Wrath was an easier way to win games. We've had some fun adventures, one of my favorites being this one from a Legacy Monthly last year (vs. BUG Delver):
Me: "Sac Summoner's Egg to Phyrexian Tower. Trigger?"
Opponent: "Sure"
Me: "Alrighty. *flips card underneath the Egg* There's Emrakul"
Me: "Tap 5 more mana (1 land left untapped), cast Elesh Norn?"
Opponent: Scoops.
That turned some heads, lol. It also had someone crying out they didn't know they'd be playing EDH.
As for the second part - now you know what gets me going, lol.
