[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

Comparing Peacekeeper and Preacher isn't very fair, as both are heading for opposite strategies.
Preacher forces your opponent to overextend the board in order to pass through him (or they'll get chump blockt by their own fellows). As you mentiont early trading x-1 with a card like Wrath or Explosiv is the nuts and Preacher basicly drives your opponent directly to this point.

Peacekeeper on the other hand is great if you want to freeze the game in general, however creating a board state where only 2-3 cards in your deck can win doesn't seem to great. What I do like about Peacekeeper is that you can decide if he'll stay on board or leave, being able to set up a small army via Decree or Elspeth. Yet I don't like the fact that he's incredible slow, which isn't exactly promoting for a deck that is rather slow (assuming that your opponent can just outstall you, as you need several turns to find Jace, find couter to protect him, set him at 13, use his ulti and then wait 7-8 more turns for them to die. I know this is a normal way to win with Jace, but if your opponent can't win anymore there are only 2 possible things to do: surrender or stalling).

Speaking about the Merfolk MU, I'm looking forward to test Llawan in the spot of my 2 Preachers once more, as more and more lists including 2-3 Kiras have shown up in my meta recently.

I think Llawan is more narrow than Peacekeeper if it's just for Merfolks so Peacekeeper seems more natural to be tested over Llawan. I realized that having a static WoG/Humility effect that does not die to Grip is quite huge. It will basically put your Merfolks/Bant matchups in a favored position (bant is usually not a big problem) but there are NO/SnT decks with Green packing grips that still ruin Humility.

Anyway, the list that I've been working on 2 years ago, finally got some form. It's still definitely inferior to Landstill but this is a new 'Greedier' approach to Landstill, I call it Greedstill lol. Any input on N&D would be appreciated. It's my personal project that I've worked and scraped over the years since Mox Diamond in control usually leads to 'Ugh Mox Diamond sucks, should be more business spell' v.s. 'Mox Diamond turn 1 Bob/Chalice@1/Loam is broken, I want to try it with Standstill!'

Here's a sample list:
Lands: 23 (26 with +3 Maze of Ith)
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

Creature control: 10
3 Maze of Ith
3 EE
4 StP

Acceleration: 5
4 Mox Diamond
1 Life from the Loam

Card advantage: 15
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Scroll Rack
2 Cunning Wish
3 Jace

Counters: 8
4 FoW
4 Counterspell

SB:
3 Meddling Mage
3 Spell Pierce
2 Krosan Grip
1 ETutor
1 Intuition
2 BEB
3 Tormod's Crypt

You need a Tolaria West in this sucker. Loam + Tolaria West is a pretty sick tutor engine for your EEs and utility lands.

O_O Forgot that Loam returns TWest to hand, too used to playing Crucible and disliking TWest because not much synergy with Crucible lol.

Elspeth Tiriel

Will she see play in this version of Landstill? There's an entire topic on her in the Format & Article Discussion, but I'd like to talk about her role specifically in this deck.

She does a number of things to help Landstill as she can generate more tokens than Elspeth 1 (generates 1.5 if rotating between token and life gain effects). Her life gain ability is good for helping use stabilize after taking a beating from creature decks. Her Ultimate is useful for blowing up numerous things that would be an issue for this deck.

Thoughts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Elspeth Tiriel

Will she see play in this version of Landstill? There's an entire topic on her in the Format & Article Discussion, but I'd like to talk about her role specifically in this deck.

She does a number of things to help Landstill as she can generate more tokens than Elspeth 1 (generates 1.5 if rotating between token and life gain effects). Her life gain ability is good for helping use stabilize after taking a beating from creature decks. Her Ultimate is useful for blowing up numerous things that would be an issue for this deck.

Thoughts?

---

There has allready somewhat of a discussion a few pages back (around 212 I think).
I don't really think she is going to be better than Elspeth, Knight Errant;

- First of, there is the cost. 4 and 5 mana is a BIG difference.
- Also, her protection ability is a - one while Els 1.0 has a +. This is actually a very big deal against all decks playing burn.
- Her + ability is completely useless 99% of the time on the turn she comes in. Ok, you can set up a Nevinyrall's disc but this can be disrupted much more easily than an actual disc, costs more and nobody is playing Disc anyways so I don't see why this can be brought on as a valid argument to play her.
- Doesn't have the +3/+3 flying beatdown option.

+ Her minus ability is very very impressive. On 2 turns she makes as much tokens as Els 1.0 in 6. Only problem is that you can only do this 2 times without using her +2 ability and this makes her kind of cluncky. Life gain isn't that relevant in Legacy imo except against red decks of course..
+ Ability to Disc can sometimes be relevant. Personally I do think it's a little to slow and easy to disrupt against the decks it would matter the most.
+ Awesome with Humility
+ I think she might be a complete game ending spell in DoJ builds.

All in all it just comes down to testing. I think a very standard use of her could be;
Play on turn 5 or turn six against Wasteland, Stifle, Daze, ...
Make 3 tokens,
Gain x life,
Make 3 tokens,
Gain x life,
When you have enough tokens to make him overextend, + another time and Disc away everything, ...
etc, ...
On paper this doesn't look bad imo. Only problem is that I think the life gain doesn't do much against a lot of decks and the red decks just burn her down when you make the first 3 tokens. Using the + abiilty when she enters does literally nothing in our deck because you'll have to spent even more mana to animate your factories.

Sooo.. I'm going to test her in a version with DoJ and Humilty to see what happens but overall I think she is a little to expensive. But like I said, I think this definately is a card that could be very good after extensive testing (and in the correct shell with DoJ and Humility).

This week, I brought an experimental version of Landstill in my metagame and I think the deck has quite some potential.

I've made some interesting experiments with the deck, adding 2 Maze of Ith as 'creature-removal' non land spots with 2 Intuition. Once I get a Crucible out (2 maindeck), Intuition grabs EE/Ruins/Maze/Wasteland and sets up an engine there. If I have either Scepter/instants in my hand, I can Intuition out instants/scepter etc. I spent about 1 hour debating if Loam Intuition > Crucible Intuition but I fell in favor of Crucible Intuition (takes no mana which is important in a control deck) and doesn't force me to play green, which sucks in control decks. Black/red is so much stronger as a splash color. Loam Intuition however opens the option for Forbid + Tolaria West shenanigans but those engines are too mana-intensive and 'countertop'-style for my tastes.


//Lands: 23
4 Strand
2 Delta
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
4 Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins


// Card-advantage/tutors: 17
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Intuition
2 Crucible
3 Jace 2.0

//Board-control: 11
2 Maze of Ith
3 EE
4 StP
2 Elspeth 2.0

//Permission: 10
2 Orim's Chant
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will


I personally enjoyed playing this so far even though it was my first time playing this list. Eventually I might cut the Chants (I still like Scepter + anything in the deck even without Chants) but I feel that those Chants have seriously improved Landstill's game-1 matchups against any matchups (enchantress/combo/control/no-Grip aggro game1s). I really need to squeeze the 4th EE. It's too good and I felt myself wanting EE in my opening hand all day long. Ideally I want to drop 2 Chants and fit in the 4th EE and 24th land but Chant has just saved my ass too many times lol.

I'm not sure if Scepters fit this decklist well since Elspeth 2.0 blows it up eventually, but in testing, when the Scepters stick, I'm winning anyway, so there isn't a need to use Elspeth's ultimate. With the recursion in the deck (easily setup with Crucible/Intuition/lands) Scepter can be recasted again after the ultimate. But so far I have not run into this issue i.e. either Elspeth/Jace/Scepter has been dealt with before I get the duo/trio out. However, I think that if the above list cut 2 Scepters and 2 Chants for 2 Decree, 1 EE and 1 Path, it could be very strong against aggro but weakening the non-aggro matchup.

Elspeth 2.0 testing is interesting so far. I like and dislike her. Her mana isn't too much of a problem surprisingly, the main problem is her loyalty being at 2 after using the -2, which in certain scenarios make her very prone to flyers/island walkers. But her ultimate has been quite impressive. At least in my deck, I can chant a turn and blow the board up. If I get my Peacekeepers, she's going to be pretty strong against Merfolks/Emrakuls and non-Zoo/Goblin decks. Her +2 is very underwhelming but sometimes even 2 life gains you enough room to stabilize. The biggest problem I have with her is that you always want to use her -2 first (this occurs most often) and that puts her in a risky position against flyers/islandwalkers and burn (burn is not too much a problem) and she needs another 2 turns to blow up. But situations where you can drop her off and +2 immediately, she is really really powerful.

Against Stax/Stompy/Enchantress, Elsepth 2.0 will be far more relevant in these matchups. Elspeth 1.0 still holds the defense at a faster speed, but I think her application is best against aggro or against control. Elspeth 2.0 is a much better overall card against various decks, so depending on your maindeck, you want to fit E1.0 or E2.0 in depending on what your deck needs. My meta has 1/3 decks comprised of Reanimator/Show&Tell/Emrakuls/Progenitus/Enchantress so E2.0 is much more relevant in my games. I support E2.0 with this new decklist (Mazes for early defense and strengthening standstills) by providing more early game cushion and letting her resolve into her ultimate. Maze + 3 soliders + factories hold any non-flyers/island-walkers off well.

I'm not sure if this build qualifies as Landstill (I call it Tezzeret the Hater), but here is a new list that I've invented and am tuning. I think it's pretty damn powerful:

4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
1 Trop
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Seat of the Synod

4 Mishra's Factory
2 Nantuko Monastery
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Maze of Ith

1 Academy Ruins
1 Riftstone Portal
2 Lonely Sandbar

4 Mox Diamond
4 Pithing Needle
1 Damping Matrix

4 Standstill

2 Wrath of God
1 Life from the Loam

4 Counterspell
4 Swords
2 Intuition

1 Jace Beleren
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Gideon Jura
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Tezzeret the Seeker

MD Pithing Needle might seem strange, but I assure you, it's powerful. Every top tier deck in the meta, with the exception of combo, can have their game plan severely compromised by a needle or two. Moreover, Needle on Wasteland (the correct play, like 80% of the time) makes many of the hardest match-ups cake walks. Once they are unable to disrupt your mana, there's nothing they can do to stop you from clogging the board with man lands then blowing them out with planeswalkers. Needle hits Vial, thus making Standstill a really good card again.
Vs 4c CB, needle on Top screws them sideways, since they rely on Top to not only lock the game, but fix their draws and get mana. And once you pull ahead in mana/manland development, then they're never going to touch you with goyf and its inevitable that you'll get a second needle to negate their Jace.

The wide spread on planeswalkers is so that opposing Needles never completely cripple win cons. Imo, Tezz is the best, because he wins so quickly but Ajani has been surprisingly good bc of his synergy with manlands.

Just wondering, whats a worse match for landstill these days (any variant), Ichorid or Lands!?

Your chances to beat both of this decks depends on your Sideboard and on some Maindeck slots. If you run a list with Wish and Extirpate/Trap in your board you might have a chance against Lands, as you can remove their LftL and win via Jace (at least until the point where they got a recurring Mind Slaver online). Against Ichorid you can Extirpate their Bridges and just throw pointremoval against Ichorid, however this is by far an even worse MU, as Ichorids is faster then Lands. Another option would be a turn 4 Humility, but let's face it: this will only happen in magic christmas land.
However this can only be said preboard, as each Sideboard usually contains several cards against both of these Decks, including Relic, Crypt, Meddling Mage or Trap.
I'd recommand to concede g1 as fast as possible (that means that you should know at which point of the game you've lost, even if you still have 20 life or something like this), if you aren't playing Wish or Maindeck gravehate.
Personally I don't think that one of this Decks can be classified as "our worst MU", as it all depends on the 75 cards you run.

as Lands, I've beat landstill after they extirpated loam on turn 4. I used Celestial Colonnade to crush their walkers and crush them.

Congratz, but the Deck has 4-6 Swords to prevent this from happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felidae

Congratz, but the Deck has 4-6 Swords to prevent this from happening.

---

its called wasteland and port, dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by antonius

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by felidae

congratz, but the deck has 4-6 swords to prevent this from happening.

---

its called wasteland and port, dude.

---

duh!

Touché dude ;). Guess you did a pretty damn good job if you managed to srew him out of white mana sources without Loam (hey if he got to cast a planeswalker it is even funnier).
The lack of a fast clock can give you enough time to slowly set up your board, however a board state where you got a Celestial Colonnade + 5 Mana to use it and your opponent has a planeswalker but not enough white mana sources or Wastelands to break through Port.... the world isn't fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felidae

Touché dude ;). Guess you did a pretty damn good job if you managed to srew him out of white mana sources without Loam (hey if he got to cast a planeswalker it is even funnier).
The lack of a fast clock can give you enough time to slowly set up your board, however a board state where you got a Celestial Colonnade + 5 Mana to use it and your opponent has a planeswalker but not enough white mana sources or Wastelands to break through Port.... the world isn't fair.

---

The game went for like two hundred turns. When it goes that long, even without loam, it's inevitable that the Lands player will have 2-3 times more land than the Landstill player.

Hi, first, scuse me if my english ixs not really good but I'll write as better as i can. I play 3 years ago landstill decks, always UWx and trying many splashes and versions, im working in a different variant of the deck, that have nice things, I called it tutor landstill because play with somes enlightned tutors and depend alot on it, this is the list:

1 Tolaria West
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Tundra
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Wasteland

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Humility
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives

3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm

3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will


// Sideboard:
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Day of Judgment
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Aura of Silence
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 3 Extirpate

As you can see, i put it thopter-SoM combination, this is awesome vs agro decks if u can put it in game in early game and can be a life-generator that improves burn pairings more easy in g1. In my meta there are a lot of stifle.decks and enlightned-> crucible works really nice these days. In permission slots i put it 3 snares, but im not really sure about it or spell pierce, but i think that if i not have a WoG in MD for beat agro decks, i think is better snare because eat tarmos, confidants, etc etc..., same case in SB, im not sure about negate vs spell pierce, other think about im not sure is wasteland slot vs basic land, crucible + wasteland is strong lock but in other case and playing in early turns for put thopter on game, colorless lands or turn lose its difficult, but with a tolaria in deck, is same as have 2 wastelands if i need it with crucible. SB slots is the biggest doubt i have, i need 10 more slots!! pithing neddle, sacred ground, tsabo web, tormod's crypt, oblivion ring (oponent's Jaces for example), other engineered plage, porphyry nodes, more ethersworn canonist, or, as you think, more and more nice slots. I try many versions as Wafo-tapa or cunning landstills and i see this nice list too, thanks for reading and waiting for opinions.

@ Teown;
I've played with Enlightened Tutor lists for years but don't anymore. The reason is the extreme card disadvantage you get when you wish for something, play it and then it gets Krosan Grip'ed. Now you've spent 2 cards for nothing and you can't do anything about it cause of the split second. The other problem is that your sideboard is very weak against Disenchant effects cause all of the 1's. When they destroy the 1 of answer you have searched for, you're out of sideboarded cards for the rest of the game.
The last and most obvious thing is that topdecking E-Tutor sucks.. When I did play it, I also played 2 Sensei's Divining Tops because at least you then can search => flip top and immediatly have the card you searched for. But like I said, I don't play E-Tutor anymore, I now play a Wafo-Tapa like list where every draw is a bussiness spell or a land.
So, while I do like Thopter Foundry as a concept, I don't like E-Tutor in Landstill and I don't think Thopter is playable at all without it.

And what you think about tezzeret? I think that 5cc its too slow for a thopter lock. I know that e.tutor is a big card dissadvantage but gives versatility to deck, working this afternoon on deck i decide to implement 2-3 SdTop for tutor-draw, i really like thopter in landstill but i recognise is hard to optimize this lock on this deck. Any more ideas? In my meta i need versatility more than stability of wafo-tapa versions. Other things that i think about is put 3-4 cbalance for de more powerfull tutors but i dont like this enchant too much...

Well, I just don't think Thopter Foundry has a good home in Landstill. The combo also just isn't as powerfull as it was in extended. Legacy has A LOT more countermagic than Extended. Also you can't depend on Academy Ruins for recusion in a format dominated by Wasteland. Also, Legacy decks tend to play a lot of graveyard hate and this can really be a problem. My personal thought about a Landstill deck is that it should be as resilient and reduntant as possible and having a 2 card combo that doesn't do anything without both pieces in play doesn't fit that bill all to well.
If you want to play Thopter Foundry I would go outside of the Landstill shell to a deck with a lower curve and CounterBalance like this list => http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37482 but this isn't a Standstill list anymore.