Miracle Control

Top 8'd a local duel for duals event with the list below. Went 3-0-2 in swiss, beating Shardless, Esper Mentor, and Grixis Delver. Then I double ID'd into the top 8. Lost in the first round of top 8 to the same Grixis player that I beat in the swiss. Walked away with an Underground Sea. The 75 felt very strong.

//Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Monastery Mentor

//Spells
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Terminus
1 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
1 Council's Judgment
2 Pyroblast

//Lands
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa

//Sideboard
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rancOr_

If there are still Terminus in your deck postboard something is wrong:) That aside, canonist is very good vs Omnitell and just as good as meddling mage would be..

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100% false. Terminus postboard against Omnitell is definitely not incorrect specifically because of Young Pyromancer and SNT into Emrakul.

Here is the list I've been playing for three weeks and which won me yesterday the http://www.eternal-clash.com/event/19-09-2015/ - currently Germanys largest regular legacy event with 70+ players.

#1 Miracle Control – Peer Oke Richelsen
Creatures (6)
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage

Instants (17)
1 Counterspell
2 Dig through Time
2 Pyroblast
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries (6)
2 Ponder
4 Terminus

Enchantments (4)
4 Counterbalance

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts (4)
4 Sensei’s Divining Top

Lands (21)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard (15)
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Cavern Of Souls
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
2 Flusterstorm
3 Monastery Mentor

Read the Tournament Report here:
#1 with Miracles at eternal-clash.com with team #bordifies

Cheers, Peer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnziD

100% false. Terminus postboard against Omnitell is definitely not incorrect specifically because of Young Pyromancer and SNT into Emrakul.

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I have to disagree, Terminus IS wrong in postboard games. Of course there is the chance to flip Terminus where they have Emrakul but when they cast it via Omniscience tucking with Terminus won't solve the problem as they can easily just finish you off in the same turn as long as they have like 2 cantrips. Fighting Young Pyromancer with Terminus seems like a bad plan. You'd rather board in Izzet Staticaster or stick your own Monastery Mentor.

I mean the goal is to not let Show and Tell resolve and if they have Bosejiu the goal is to fight their hand with Vendilion Clique or get lucky with Venser and or Ethersworn Canonist + Pyroblast effects.
If you have a decent sideboard for Miracles, Omni and Grixis you'll need to board:
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Terminus
-1 Plains
-1 X
to make room for at least:
+1 Izzet Staticaster
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Wear // Tear (debatable, some builds play Defense Grid)
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Surgical Extraction (debatable, some builds play Intuition)
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Red Elemental Blast

If you keep Terminus I wonder, what do you side in/out in this match up?

Played Mentor Miracles today, 69 pple showed up.
R1: 2-0 Esper Mentor
R2: 2-0 BURG Delver
R3: 1-1 Punishing Blue
R4: 1-1 Esper Mentor
R5: 2-0 Armageddon Stax
R6: 2-0 Omnitell
R7: 2-0 UWR Stoneblade
QF: 0-2 Omnitell

The deck was very solid as always, another teammate made it to the SF/F with mentor aswell.

For Omnitell I board like this:
-3 STP
-3 Terminus
-4 Monastery Mentor
+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Vendilion Clique
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+1 Wear//Tear
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Jace,the mind sculptor

Greetings-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by screallix

I have to disagree, Terminus IS wrong in postboard games. Of course there is the chance to flip Terminus where they have Emrakul but when they cast it via Omniscience tucking with Terminus won't solve the problem as they can easily just finish you off in the same turn as long as they have like 2 cantrips. Fighting Young Pyromancer with Terminus seems like a bad plan. You'd rather board in Izzet Staticaster or stick your own Monastery Mentor.

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First of all, you assume everyone's on Izzet Staticaster, which might or might not be true.

Second, say Omni-tell player decides to win via YP route. It is perfectly reasonable for him to Wish for Pyroblast to kill your Staticaster on stack. Yes, most Omni-tell has one Blast effect in the SB. If he's committed to this YP plan, the Wish can sometimes be uncounterable. Some rare Omni players even have Sudden Shock as a SB target. Staticaster in my opinion is a glass cannon against decks that also has red blast effect. In MU like Storm and Elves, it's much better.

If Omni-tell player happens to probe you first and see that you have canonist + red blast effect in hand, that's more incentive for the Omni-tell player to go for the YP route. Stick your own mentor to match YP and its token can work, but it's a huge commitment to dump mana into mentor main phase and maybe more, just to get it to stick.

I am more inclined to leave in 1 maybe 2 mass removals, in case Omni-tell player is going for the YP route.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rancOr_

Played Mentor Miracles today, 69 pple showed up.
R1: 2-0 Esper Mentor
R2: 2-0 BURG Delver
R3: 1-1 Punishing Blue
R4: 1-1 Esper Mentor
R5: 2-0 Armageddon Stax
R6: 2-0 Omnitell
R7: 2-0 UWR Stoneblade
QF: 0-2 Omnitell

The deck was very solid as always, another teammate made it to the SF/F with mentor aswell.

For Omnitell I board like this:
-3 STP
-3 Terminus
-4 Monastery Mentor
+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Vendilion Clique
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+1 Wear//Tear
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Jace,the mind sculptor

Greetings-

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Just a quick question to those who plays mentor miracles, how would you deal with dazes after the first game? Do you usually see yourself boarding it out? I can uds keeping it in against combo decks but what about the mirror, delver strategies, even to decks like jund.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rancOr_

If there are still Terminus in your deck postboard something is wrong:) That aside, canonist is very good vs Omnitell and just as good as meddling mage would be..

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I don't understand the thought process of people like you. Everyone says side out Terminus in X-MU, but don't you ever think the opponent expects you to do just that and therefore will side in more creatures?

I'll never play a post-board game without at least 1 Terminus remaining in the deck unless I know for a fact that there's no way they would try to go wide or at the very minimum have more creatures in post-board games.

I've been considering, recently, cutting the 4x Terminus and 2x Entreat the Angels and playing a much more aggressive list with Mentor, Bolts as well as Jace, vryn's Prodigy - Still playing the Counter-Top combo.

Have anyone tried something like this?

Lands (20)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Karakas

Card Filtering (14)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
2x Dig Though Time

Permission (6)
4x Force of Will
2x Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast

Removal/Tempo (7)
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Lightning Bolt

Creatures (9)
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Monastary Mentor
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique

4x Counterbalance

I am not sure if this is actually better, but I intend to try it out, due to Jace being pretty bonkers.

I have cut the Terminus as well in place of 3 Pyroclasm which have been working just great.

Top + Pyroclasm wypes opponents board leaving you with the old tokens already 3/3 and Mentor 4/4 for lethal.
It works well also with Snapcaster

Radiant Flames is to be tried in case of Kird Ape and Mongoose (but I wouldn't really try it now).

Anyway I would never try it in a tournament because of all the MUD decks I expect around. New Eldrazis are just great Chalice + Void Winnower are a great hardlock for everyone...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poron

I have cut the Terminus as well in place of 3 Pyroclasm which have been working just great.

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Are you serious about that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gros

Are you serious about that?

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It is Poron. What do you expect?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bragi

It is Poron. What do you expect?

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To be fair: Terminus IS pretty poor in the metagame currently. I wouldn't agree with cutting it for Pyroclasm though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gros

Are you serious about that?

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Poron, I would really like to see your list and hear more about your local meta-game. You've posted about some pretty unconventional deck choices, and I'm genuinely interested in seeing how you've had to adapt your deck to an extremely focused meta.

He plays on Cockatrice.

Completly serious.

I also play 1 Tutor and 1 Meekstone in SB FOR Delver and TNN.

In a deck with 4 Mentor, I like not to play such symmetrical card like Terminus.

Pyroclasm kills everything actually played but Tarmogoys, Angmar, Tasigur. All of these cards can be chump blocked by a token and anyway we play 4 StP and 3 SnapMage for those.

Eldrazi/Mud just are unwinnable nowaday.
That will require Humility almost surely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poron

Completly serious.

I also play 1 Tutor and 1 Meekstone in SB FOR Delver and TNN.

In a deck with 4 Mentor, I like not to play such symmetrical card like Terminus.

Pyroclasm kills everything actually played but Tarmogoys, Angmar, Tasigur. All of these cards can be chump blocked by a token and anyway we play 4 StP and 3 SnapMage for those.

Eldrazi/Mud just are unwinnable nowaday.
That will require Humility almost surely.

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This is what I mean; I'm very curious to see what you've cut (in terms of more conventional SB choices) to make room for Tutor/Meekstone/Pyroclasm/Null Rod/Humility/whatever else you are currently running. It's kind of a meta-discussion; if you're running Mentor and Clasm over Entreat and Terminus, you aren't running Miracles anymore, so is the deck still Miracle Control?

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pyroblast
2 Counterspell
2 Dig through Time

4 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage

3 Pyroclasm

staple 20 lands

SB:
1 E. Tutor
1 Disenchant
1 Wear/Tear
1 Pyroblast
2 E. Canonist
2 Meddling Mage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Moon
1 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Jace, TMS
1 Humility
1 Flusterstorm

I hate to scoop to g1 Choke or Chalice of the Void or Needle or Trinisphere or other nowaday very common stuff. That's why I'm thinking to try out

+2 Banishing Stroke
-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Swords to Plowshares

If you don't want to scoop to G1 CotV or Choke play Spell Pierce and don't blindly fire off a turn 1 Ponder when you have both in hand.

In such a metagame I'd simply not maindeck Pyroblast. And Council's Judgment is a nice card.

I've gone back to two Spell Pierce over the two Pyroblasts, it's works wonders against chalice/liliana/library etc

Yes, I am really thinking to drop Rebs but at that point the mirror match becomes a nightmare..

Or I have just to reinvent the SB

Anyway what does Council's Judgment hits, actually played, that Banishing Stroke doesn't? TNN, Liliana and Emrakul. What else?

I def want to test stroke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poron

Yes, I am really thinking to drop Rebs but at that point the mirror match becomes a nightmare..

Or I have just to reinvent the SB

Anyway what does Council's Judgment hits, actually played, that Banishing Stroke doesn't? TNN, Liliana and Emrakul. What else?

I def want to test stroke.

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Nimble Mongoose. Inkwell Leviathan. Progenitus. Or creatures equipped with Lightning Greaves to get back to the 1000 pages of MUD-MU discussion (it's probably hard to cast under spheres, but anyway).
It can also remove Glistener Elf/Blighted Agent/some Infect-Dude, no matter whether the opponent has a protection spell like Vines of Vastwood/Apostle's Blessing.

And furthermore it flips for 3 when you reveal it with Counterbalance. This is nicer against decks that try to punch through cards like Liliana, Choke, Show and Tell and whatnot. It's simply more on-curve.

Oh, and there is Gaddock Teeg somewhere in the format.

don't know.. the Eldrazis overall the new one are really making me think to go back to Terminus.
Terminus would cut the chance for Stroke so maybe it's not worth to talk about it..

Void Winnower is just.. wrong :eek:

Recently i have had a bad run both against grixis delver and grixis control. Grixis Delver is a better matchup (maybe slightly favorable if played perfectly, but who does?) but what happens is that i have countertop and cant find the final terminus. Against grixis Control they bury you in cardadvantage or destroy you thru therapy and you generally just lose if you cant install countertop within 5 turns.

Some points of thought:

• what have you guys changed in your sideboard to combat those decks?
• What is the general opinion of fows against grixis control postboard.
• How good is Staticaster? It dies to Bolt and Rebs. I imagine hes better against control since they're more likely to board out bolts.
• What do you think about SFM? I feel like he's quite bad since you have to have a bs, countertop or hope they dont have therapy.

Thanks in advance

Staticaster has been very underwhelming for me recently. I'm switching to a Supreme Verdict in its slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by decan

Recently i have had a bad run both against grixis delver and grixis control. Grixis Delver is a better matchup (maybe slightly favorable if played perfectly, but who does?) but what happens is that i have countertop and cant find the final terminus. Against grixis Control they bury you in cardadvantage or destroy you thru therapy and you generally just lose if you cant install countertop within 5 turns.

Some points of thought:

• what have you guys changed in your sideboard to combat those decks?
• What is the general opinion of fows against grixis control postboard.
• How good is Staticaster? It dies to Bolt and Rebs. I imagine hes better against control since they're more likely to board out bolts.
• What do you think about SFM? I feel like he's quite bad since you have to have a bs, countertop or hope they dont have therapy.

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Grixis in general, it's just a boat load of cantrips. When they resolve YP, great, they probably win. When they don't have YP, it's just empty spinning, cantrips into more cantrips. If This deck is rampant in your area, run Slice and Dice. Find it, cycle it, end that token strategy non-sense. Don't even need to fight over stupid red blasts, or any counters for that matter, much easier to get the job done than staticaster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by decan

Recently i have had a bad run both against grixis delver and grixis control. Grixis Delver is a better matchup (maybe slightly favorable if played perfectly, but who does?) but what happens is that i have countertop and cant find the final terminus. Against grixis Control they bury you in cardadvantage or destroy you thru therapy and you generally just lose if you cant install countertop within 5 turns.

Some points of thought:

• what have you guys changed in your sideboard to combat those decks?
• What is the general opinion of fows against grixis control postboard.
• How good is Staticaster? It dies to Bolt and Rebs. I imagine hes better against control since they're more likely to board out bolts.
• What do you think about SFM? I feel like he's quite bad since you have to have a bs, countertop or hope they dont have therapy.

Thanks in advance

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FOW = bad for the reasons FOW is bad in other fair matchups
Staticaster dies but I'm happy if it trades for even 1 Pyromancer + tokens
No space for SFM because Mentor outclasses SFM in this matchup and other matchups, also Cabal Therapy > Batterskull

a well timed Pyroclasm and Spell Pierce.

Surgical Extraction on Therapy totally closes the match

Recent IQ decklist has two mana Jace in the deck, can someone explain the interaction between him and terminus? you stack them how you want?

? when you Terminus you want him to be already a planeswalker...9

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper

Recent IQ decklist has two mana Jace in the deck, can someone explain the interaction between him and terminus? you stack them how you want?

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Can u post the decklist or the link? thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serch

Can u post the decklist or the link? thanks

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3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

5 Island
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
2 Pyroblast
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Ponder
4 Terminus

SB:
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Blood Moon
2 Detention Sphere
1 Counterspell
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear//Tear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper

Recent IQ decklist has two mana Jace in the deck, can someone explain the interaction between him and terminus? you stack them how you want?

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His entire loot + transform happens at the same time. There's no trigger when you transform him, thus making him a planeswalker.

The miracle trigger does happen, but doesn't get completed until Jace's ability has done resolving.

real standings for that iq http://readytoplaytc.com/?page_id=1398
also jace didnt seem to be that impressive since it just makes removal more live but it was good versus goblins for blocking and he did manage to do the terminus trick with the looting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

His entire loot + transform happens at the same time. There's no trigger when you transform him, thus making him a planeswalker.

The miracle trigger does happen, but doesn't get completed until Jace's ability has done resolving.

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Oh I didn't understand the question, but yeah this is what happens.

1. Jace draws you a card.
2. If it's a Terminus, you can reveal it for the Miracle trigger.
3. You discard a card to Jace. If you have enough stuff in your GY, Jace flips.
4. The Miracle trigger goes on the stack.
5. If you want to, you can cast Terminus for W.

That's a pretty cute interaction, actually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian

Oh I didn't understand the question, but yeah this is what happens.

1. Jace draws you a card.
2. If it's a Terminus, you can reveal it for the Miracle trigger.
3. You discard a card to Jace. If you have enough stuff in your GY, Jace flips.
4. The Miracle trigger goes on the stack.
5. If you want to, you can cast Terminus for W.

That's a pretty cute interaction, actually.

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Also, Jace is insane. Card is reaaaally good, and actually makes Grixis a slightly better matchup (single handily).

Still the new Jace seems better suited for something like grixis that can fill the grave faster, plays four digs, and usually is more willing to tap out early on compared to miracles. Similar to how dack worked better in grixis than miracles

Jace is not that great in this deck.

a) opens up removal
b) dies to decay
c) clashes with big jace
d) lol karakas

Maybe in Mentor Miracles the card can see more play, where you don't really care about anything except the last thing (which is subtle anyways)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThanhHa

Still the new Jace seems better suited for something like grixis that can fill the grave faster, plays four digs, and usually is more willing to tap out early on compared to miracles. Similar to how dack worked better in grixis than miracles

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnziD

Jace is not that great in this deck.

a) opens up removal
b) dies to decay
c) clashes with big jace
d) lol karakas

Maybe in Mentor Miracles the card can see more play, where you don't really care about anything except the last thing (which is subtle anyways)

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Beat me to it. He's fine (I still don't think he'll be a Legacy staple) but doesn't fit into the control-versions of this deck.