[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

I have been out of legacy for about a year or so now and looking into playing a 30 man or so tournament this weekend on Sunday at a CMT in Ottawa. Just wondering if the burnwish plan is no longer good as I am seeing a lot of people running the 2 grim tutors and a sideboard karakas and abrupt decay.

As I don't really have a clue what the meta game will look like and I can't find any grim tutors to buy at the moment is there any updated wish lists? I know there is a really good article by Timo but with out the grim tutor should I move a inferno to the sideboard, as he suggests you buy one but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.

And should i look towards switching to the UBG version later down the road?

Edit: As most hate bears seem to be legendary , would phant image be useful at all for the sb for non wish versions.

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Originally Posted by [PMP]Krevvy

I have been out of legacy for about a year or so now and looking into playing a 30 man or so tournament this weekend on Sunday at a CMT in Ottawa. Just wondering if the burnwish plan is no longer good as I am seeing a lot of people running the 2 grim tutors and a sideboard karakas and abrupt decay.

As I don't really have a clue what the meta game will look like and I can't find any grim tutors to buy at the moment is there any updated wish lists? I know there is a really good article by Timo but with out the grim tutor should I move a inferno to the sideboard, as he suggests you buy one but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.

And should i look towards switching to the UBG version later down the road?

Edit: As most hate bears seem to be legendary , would phant image be useful at all for the sb for non wish versions.

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You can still run the wish version, it's definitely still viable. I wouldn't run an IT in the board -- just accept that you can't win with Burning Wish as your only action and adjust your play accordingly - it doesn't make any sense to put your best card in the sideboard just to make the worst card in your maindeck slightly less bad. You could run something like Preordain in the SB, so you can use an early drawn BW to just improve your hand quality a little bit.

I think as long as Miracles is a thing, UBGr or just UBG is going to be the best option down the road.
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Originally Posted by [PMP]Krevvy

As most hate bears seem to be legendary , would phant image be useful at all for the sb for non wish versions.

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That'd only be useful against Iona and other big legendary dudes. For the rest: Image is CMC2, so bad for Ad Nauseam, and furthermore it serves no purpose (doesn't kill normal creaturews, you have nothing to copy).
Against the many hate beats of late, I tried 3x Disfigure in the side. That worked okay, because they could also kill turn 1 Lackey to justify a slow kill versus Goblins, and turn 1 Mother of Runes which would otherwise protect the hatebear from your removal. But... there's a reason everybody plays Dread of Night. It's good. And Karakas bounces a hatebear regardless of Mother of Runes protecting it. Lastly the new Abrupt Decay can also destroy Counterbalance, which usually spells a loss for us, so that's also highly relevant. A selection of those three cards, suplemented by some bounce spells, should be your anti-hate package imho.

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Originally Posted by aaronm678

You can still run the wish version, it's definitely still viable. I wouldn't run an IT in the board -- just accept that you can't win with Burning Wish as your only action and adjust your play accordingly - it doesn't make any sense to put your best card in the sideboard just to make the worst card in your maindeck slightly less bad. You could run something like Preordain in the SB, so you can use an early drawn BW to just improve your hand quality a little bit.

I think as long as Miracles is a thing, UBGr or just UBG is going to be the best option down the road.
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I cant agree more, splashing green in the sideboard for decay and xantid swarm rocks. Usually second game, your opponent will side out STP or creature removal for more permission, that is why xantid swarm will take them by surprise. Decay not only targets counterbalance, thalia or teeg, it also hits less seen cards like thorn of amethyst, chalice of the void, rule of law, pyrostatic pillar etc.

If you're going to Wish->something and that something is going to be business to be used this turn or next, it seems like Time Spiral would be a legit option. Drawing 7 cards in the deck, particularly with mana available (you're going to untap at least 2-3 lands in this deck), is going to be very good for you. I still don't like Burning Wish, but if you find yourself frequently in the situation where you have boatloads of mana and nothing to spend it on (i.e. don't own Grim Tutor), Time Spiral seems like it would be fine.

To Emidln Dark Ritual and who ever else it concerns. Just sleeved up the list. I came across a hand that blew my mind. It was 2 Delta 2 LED 1 LP 1 Snapcaster and a Ad Nauseam,a turn 1 win. Maybe a turn 2 to be safe? But I'd do it turn 1.

How often do these hands happen?
Not so sure I'm sold on the bording strategy yet but Snapcaster seems to be good.

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Originally Posted by MTG Junkie

To Emidln Dark Ritual and who ever else it concerns. Just sleeved up the list. I came across a hand that blew my mind. It was 2 Delta 2 LED 1 LP 1 Snapcaster and a Ad Nauseam,a turn 1 win. Maybe a turn 2 to be safe? But I'd do it turn 1.

How often do these hands happen?
Not so sure I'm sold on the bording strategy yet but Snapcaster seems to be good.

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Uhm.. How the hell are you casting the Ad Nauseam in your hand on turn 1?

Edit: Apologies -- Bourbon didn't let me see the snapcaster in hand.

[QUOTE=Chikenbok;686658]Uhm.. How the hell are you casting the Ad Nauseam in your hand on turn 1?

UHM..... look a lil closer and figure it out. Its right in front of you.

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Originally Posted by Chikenbok

Uhm.. How the hell are you casting the Ad Nauseam in your hand on turn 1?

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2 Delta 2 LED 1 LP 1 Snapcaster and a Ad Nauseam

1. Land > fetch 1 blue mana
2. Cast Lp > 1 colorless mana
3. Cast 2 LED
4. Cast Snapcaster off land and lotus petal
5. Respond by breaking both LED for 6 mana
6. Snapcaster Resolves giving Ad Nauseum flashback
7. Ad Nauseum with 1 floating or wait a turn to do it with protection or two floating

Many apologies, did not see the snapcaster and spent a while staring at the cards in my hand confused as hell.

Top 4'd a 154-person tournament in Brazil with this list:

1 Volcanic Island 3 Verdant Catacombs 2 Underground Sea 1 Tendrils of Agony 1 Swamp 1 Scalding Tarn 4 Ponder 4 Polluted Delta 1 Past In Flames 4 Lotus Petal 4 Lion`s Eye Diamond 1 Island 2 Inquisition of Kozilek 4 Infernal Tutor 4 Gitaxian Probe 1 Duress 4 Dark Ritual 1 Chrome Mox 4 Cabal Therapy 4 Cabal Ritual 3 Burning Wish 4 Brainstorm 1 Badlands 1 Ad Nauseam

Sideboard 2 Xantid Swarm 1 Tropical Island 1 Tendrils of Agony 1 Pyroclasm 1 Past in Flames 1 Massacre 3 Karakas 1 Ill-Gotten Gains 1 Empty the Warrens 1 Duress 2 Abrupt Decay

My losses were to a RUG in the Swiss and a Sneak and Show on the Top 4. Will post a report if I find my notes.

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Originally Posted by MTG Junkie

To Emidln Dark Ritual and who ever else it concerns. Just sleeved up the list. I came across a hand that blew my mind. It was 2 Delta 2 LED 1 LP 1 Snapcaster and a Ad Nauseam,a turn 1 win. Maybe a turn 2 to be safe? But I'd do it turn 1.

How often do these hands happen?
Not so sure I'm sold on the bording strategy yet but Snapcaster seems to be good.

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Turn 1 wins are <5%, they do happen occasionally, and almost always off ad naus - that hand actually has a >25% chance of fizzling on the turn 1 kill, as you've used half your LEDs, and you are probably going to need LED or a grim tutor to end the game there.

Keep in mind, I wouldn't put too much of that hand on snapcaster being good - most hands with 2 LEDs, a dark rit, and business are very good, whether or not you win turn 1.

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Originally Posted by rgripp

Top 4'd a 154-person tournament in Brazil with this list:

My losses were to a RUG in the Swiss and a Sneak and Show on the Top 4. Will post a report if I find my notes.

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Congrats! The list looks like Timo Schunemann's but with an upgraded SB. Really interested to read the report.

How do those Karakas work out for you guys in the Maverick match up?

Looks good on paper both answer teeg and thalia, and dont care about the mother. But I have never tried it but can see two big problems, wasteland and karakas. They can just wasteland in there turn and replay the guy after its get "karakas" to their hand.

Karakas is incredible. I haven't faced maverick much after adopting Emidln's list, but karakas -> bounce thalia/teeg -> go off immediately is a sweet feeling.

Drawing the 1 of ad nauseam is a matter of luck, and drawing 2 LED's alongside snapcaster and petal alongside ad nauseam is even luckier. I have never opened with that hand or something like it, but eventually it will happen. Just don't expect to get hands like that regularly, I usually go off turn 3 with Emidln's list. Sometimes turn 2 but brainstorm is almost always involved in turn 2 kills as that card can just give you the nuts. Turn 1 happens a few times in a tournament, if that. All that matters to me is if I win or lose a given game, if I get a win in a super cool way or something that's great but a win is a win.

Hey guys,
I just obtained a couple Grim Tutors, so I would like to run this deck at a local Legacy tournament. I have played High Tide and TES in tournaments, so I am familiar with combo in Legacy, however this deck is a different beast. Please give any advice you have or link to helpful articles. Here is the list that I have in mind:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 LED

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Infernal Tutor
2 Grim Tutor
1 Tendrils
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames

SB:
4 Dread of Night
3 Karakas
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 (???)

What should I run for the final slots? Thoughtseize? Inquisition? GY hate? My "meta" is essentially unknown, but I live in the US, so people love playing UWx decks and Delver right now. What is a good SB plan against RUG Delver?

Thanks for any help you all have to offer! It has been a long times since I have been on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Hey guys,
What should I run for the final slots? Thoughtseize? Inquisition? GY hate? My "meta" is essentially unknown, but I live in the US, so people love playing UWx decks and Delver right now. What is a good SB plan against RUG Delver?

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Carpet of Flowers
It´s the nuts against those tempo strategies and negates most Dazes and Spell Pierces. If you can stick one of them during your first or second turn, you have plenty of time to setup. I would not recommend adding more disruption, cause you already have eight (!) spells maindeck. Against an aggressive deck like RUG you´ll want to draw some business.
I´d try to squeeze one more carpet in, however. For reference, this is my sideboard with an identical maindeck:
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of Night
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Bayou

However, I don´t like Karakas in this deck, so this makes up at least 2 slots.

I tend to agree, that Karakas looks a bit iffy, if you can't even use it's mana to cast something like Silence (See T.E.S.)

Thanks for the input! If you were to board in 3 Carpet of Flowers against RUG Delver, what cards do you board out? Also, if you board in Abrupt Decays against Miracles for Counterbalance, what cards do you board out there?
Thanks

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Thanks for the input! If you were to board in 3 Carpet of Flowers against RUG Delver, what cards do you board out? Also, if you board in Abrupt Decays against Miracles for Counterbalance, what cards do you board out there?
Thanks

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I currently board 2 Carpet of Flowers in the UBg version and 1 Silence (6th chant effect) and 1 Empty the Warrens in the UBw(g) version against RUG. Boarding an extra land or two is definately an option (in your the bayou) against mana disruption.
Against Miracles I board out the Mox (which you don't run), the 4th Cabal Ritual, a Gitaxian Probe and basic land(s) for 3 Decays and green land(s). Boarding out is usually harder than boarding in. Against many decks you replace protection with protection (bounce over discard/chants for example) but against blue decks you don't want to board out protection spells since carpet isn't that much better than a discard spell so if you're switching them it's a low value sideboard slot (and you don't want to board up to 10 disruption spells either, imo) which you'd rather not run. This is the reason I only board two cards in that matchup and for the Carpets I usually replace at least one probe and another of our 'worst' cards (Cabal Ritual, Mox, Probe, 2nd Grim Tutor). When I have a singleton Empty the Warrens in the board I tend to not board out any probes (they're insane with the EtW plan) and board out the Ad Nauseam & Cabal Rit for the Empty and Silence against RUG.
I think Karakas is decent in the versions with white and definately prefer it over a MD bounce spell in any storm variant. Never ran it in a list with no white spells though. But I feel it's still decent in them.