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When I was on the Aggro Loam kick, Sylvan Library, was one of the best cards in the deck. It is also likely to draw a force..1G discard two cards is fine. :-) It also don't get shut off by nullrod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Whenever I get to play legacy again, I'm planning to head back to WG as well. All I know is UG will trump WG in the mirror match. Been there, got dominated.
Sylvan Library is an interesting card. I do feel it can be powerful once out. But isn't this the reason to run Kozi? Karakas him back and recast for card advantage? You also then have the ability to dig for him than to wait for Sylvan Library to pop into hand or get pushed up from Tops.
What about running Enlightened Tutor over Trinket Mage in the Bant list? Wouldn't this open up the door a little for things more for Sideboard cards? I recall Rock Lee running Platinum Empirion, this would be a nice way to fetch it up and then SnT it out.
We'll the advantage to running library is that it drops turn 2 possibly, then begins smoothing out your top decks. Kozilek and karakas shenanigans doesn't begin until turn 4 or so unless you're running candelabra of tawnos. In which case it can begin as early as turn 3 when you cast Kozilek. On that note if you cast Kozilek turn 3 you are likely winning or going to win shortly thereafter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriger
If you missed it, we just had a possible leak of the Mystic Gate expedition from OGW. If it's real, it basically confirms that <> is the new symbol for colorless mana. This means that we should have no difficulty casting any spell with <> in its cost. Personally, I'm getting very excited to see what new tools this set brings us.
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Which is incredibly good news. I hate that the new Kozilek might make me play show and tell again though. Just when I was finally at terms with playing GW.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Hei guys
Last Weekend was the Nebraska War 3.0 in italy and i played Mono G 12 Post;)
List:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Exploration
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 3 Obstinate Baloth
I played the same list as always:)
Just the SB is a little bit different. I prefer the Baloth over 3 Mindbreak Traps because i heard there a lot Miracle and BUG Delver:)
Now i can just lose to Storm...
Sadly i played 2 Times against Storm and i lost always 1:2 and really really close.
Match ups:
RG Lands 1:1 ( We had along Game 2 and in the End i lost it because i just drawing big Treaths and no Korsan Grip for a long time and he get's me with Port and 20/20 Token without Stage haha, here i missplayed a candelabra into a chalice because i tried to get her on the board..Maybe he forget to trigger the chalice haha, guys don't do that even if your opponent plays bad;)
ANT 1:2 (Hardest Match Up.. he played really slow and bad.. I mean i know every of his turn because i'm also a Storm player,
he going off into a PiF and he know that i had a crop in hand lol, but still hard to win, if i don't find a Sphere)
2:1 Junk
2:0 BUG Delver
2:1 BUG Delver (I think Baloth is not needed)
2:0 Infect
(Now i'm 4:1:1 and hoping for a good Match up like Miracles but no the badest Match up is here again haha)
1:2 Storm (Very nice Match and always really close, I could play the Marit Large at end of his turn but he going off into my own Sphere with Ad Nauseam..He really find's everything he needed and going off next turn into Pif..Sadly i can't play my map because i need 1 mana more to find a bojuka bog :(
Sadly im out now..
But hoping for price's and finally i get miracles
2:1
and the last game was too late at 22:15 evening and well i was so tired now..
0:2 Deathblade( First time i lose to this Match up. I misscounted my mana to play a eye into candelabra into ulamog into win for 1..
Should play a other way, Game 2 i had no chance because of Bad Topdecks..Game 3 we just played it for fun and i easy won that..)
so 5:3:1
It's a okay result and learned a lot again. Storm is hard to beat. Like i said to my friend, i just lose to storm.
Next time i don't lose to storm. I prefer now 3 Traps over baloth.
Meta was like Storm(Storm mirror in the Finals :),Miracle and BUG)
Thanks
Dingo
How did you accomplish that? I've found Infect difficult enough to put 1 Melira in the sideboard for GSZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
Ancient Stirrings Mono-G generally has a better matchup vs Infect than GSZ Mono-G because of Maze of Ith.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
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i played alot against infect and i know exactly how we can win
yea that's true mono g 12 Post has the best match up. maze is nice but sometimes they play easy around it and can win.
key here is naming Wasteland first. try to play chasm and you will probably win it.
g2 is more tricky but i board in dismember.. dismember is so good. Krosan Grip is bonkers against ink moth
FYI,
World magic cup coverage just explained the new Kozilek and Wastes. They are indeed real!
Basically the <> can only be paid with colorless mana: cloudpost, glimmerpost, etc. Numeric numbers can be paid with any colorless or colored source.
I guess I now need a foil Kozilek! Hopefully they will repost the preview later today on Wizards site.
New Kozi is a big deal. This gives non blue post decks a little bit more control during matchups, I love this. Evens the playing field a little. Now lets hope for other goodies from the new set.
I'm looking to build into this deck, does anyone have any suggestions as to where to start? Maybe a complete most recent deck list?
First thing is to figure out what flavor of Post you like. The most common ones at the moment are:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanese
UG
Pros: Plays Show & Tell, Brainstorm. Has countermagic vs combo.
Cons: Weakest vs Wasteland/Blood Moon bc most vulnerable to color screw, weaker to discard
Mono-G (Ancient Stirrings)
Pros: Fastest and consistent ramping, strong on-board defense with Maze and board wipes, most resilient to Wasteland/discard
Cons: Weak to combo. Doesn't play PrimeTime. Requires 3-4 Candelabras.
Mono-G (Green Sun's Zenith)
Pros: Toolbox deck. Very adaptable to a particular meta. Least expensive to build.
Cons: Less raw power. Reliance on smaller creatures make it more vulnerable to removal. Weakest in topdeck mode.
GW
Pros: Similar to above, but bigger toolbox (Enlightened Tutor plus GSZ). Strong sideboard options (RIP, Sacred Ground). Can play Terminus.
Cons: Same as GSZ version, but more vulnerable manabase.
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I think Mono G is better against Combo(With Combo i mean just storm based Decks or fast Decks like belcher)
Yes with blue you can play counter but just counter can't win against a good storm player.
In Mono G you can play more permanent based hate and also cards like Mindbreak trap or Surgical. You are a lot faster, maybe you can get them with a Dephts Combo.
Prime time is not needed and SnT is just very greedy sometimes. Right now i don't like to play UG. maybe in the Futur;)
GW is just a bad variant of the Deck and the only reason to play is StP. Because best Removal.
Of course you know what they say about opinions and all....Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
As a G/ W post player, I would completely disagree with the statement above. I don't play G/U so can't really comment on it's MUs. But it would make sense that they would have a superior MU to combo than mono green since they can play all the cards that green can and play counter magic.
I would say that G/W is better than mono green because it can play better hate, such as Canonist, leyline, Gaddock, RiP, etc.
in my opinion it also has a better aggro MU (which is why I switched from G to G/W) because it has fantastic creature removal in terminus and StP. The one upside to the mono green list is maybe that it is more resilient to wasteland, blood moon. Having said that, I won an 8 man online last night burning through Miracles with blood moon out in two games (is there ever a more satisfying win?), a mono green post player, and painter, with a blood moon out both games. I am still running 4 basics and 4 fetches, so getting green is not hard to do.
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I play green with the white splash and I will second this. We generally run like mono green but we have some of the best hate options. Plus access to an e-tutor board if we wish. Which can be key vs burn, dredge, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
I've been on Mono-G [edit: C/g] for 4 years now, and it is definitely the weakest build vs combo. That's why a whopping 12 of 15 sideboard cards in my deck are dedicated to fighting combo. Storm isn't unwinnable, but it's not a matchup I want to see.
The flip side is that Mono-G is much stronger in matchups that traditionally give other builds headaches, like BUG. Discard just doesn't do as much because we're fast, redundant, and can recover very quickly in topdeck mode.
All of the various builds have strengths and weaknesses. It's just a matter of finding what suits you and mastering it.
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Random Thought:
Now that "C" appears to be the official abbreviation for the new colorless symbol, maybe we should use "C/g Post" to distinguish Ancient Stirrings Mono-G from GSZ Mono-G? I've always seen the build as more colorless splashing green than true monogreen anyway.
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i don't get why GW should be better because of the ,,toolbox'' for combo hate.
I mean a cannonist is probably the same like a sphere against storm. Cannonist gets beaten by decay or chain of vapor and cost white. Same for RIP against reanimate.
Like i said StP is nice but we don't need it because we have a good creature match up already.
I played a lot U/G and you don't play a lot based permanent hate in it and just some counters don't win against storm.
Of course Top into fluster is nice but same for Top into mindbreak trap;)
I have been testing with and older list that I am pretty happy with in the current metagame.
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Crop Rotation
2 Show and Tell
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Karakas
3 Repeal
1 Trinket Mage
3 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Moment's Peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Swan Song
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Force of Will
I have been very happy in testing with the list.
Lands, Sneak and Show, and Miracles seems like unlose-able match ups. I have also been happy with Moment's Peace and flusters in the main, since they do work in different matches but have overlap in many as well. I do want to fit another repeal in the deck, but I cant find the space right now.
All the cards in the side seem to have their place in each match, and in the case of sneak and show all 15 come in.
Some matches that I have played recently:
Lands:
Pithing needle on stage in the first game usually means game over for the lands player. Also bogging their graveyard when they have loam or try to waste-lock you. If you draw multiple needles in the fist game naming something other than stage (port or waste) may be correct depending on the board texture. Fetching basic lands early will help against wasteland.
after side you have to be wary of chalice of the void and K-grip. I like to bring in my own K-grips and keep in the explosives to deal with chalice. Letting them 2-1 themselves with repeal or Karakas is good times.
side: -1 Cavern of souls, -1 Glacial chasm, -2 Moment's Peace, +2 Force of Will +2 Krosan Grip
Miracles
This match is one of the main reasons that 12post is so good right now being up to 25% of many metagames. The new tech that they have recently is Monastery Menor. Chasm and Moment's Peace help for being killed quickly. Prioritize getting Cavern of Souls to cast your lovely green giant, and hold off fetching with your maps as long as possible so you have the ability to get your Eye of Ugin. Beware of Clique that can strip a card out of your hand if you are not careful to play around it; keeping the threat hidden under top and drawing it to play it during the main phase rather during the draw step will win you some games.
After side you have to be aware that many UW players run Blood Moon. I bring in swan songs to and K-grip to combat this. Also previously it would be common that I would side out glacial chams against UW, but this is no longer the plan due to fear of the Mentor.
Siding: -3 Pithing Needle -3 Crop Rotation +2 Swan song +2 K-Grip +2 Flusterstorm
Sneak and Show
This match is an interesting one for us. Getting down a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack, and having a Karakas will likely mean that they can not win game 1, so this is usually what my endgame is. If you do get the needle down you can usually just let them show and tell and drop your own Titian to search for the Karakas. the other option is putting in needle off of show and tell to name what they put into play (grissle or sneak attack). The only issue with this deck now is some decks are running OMNI, which allows them to circumvent your gameplan. If they are running omni the gameplan is to cry and move on to the next game.
After side the match gets even better for the 12post player. In this version 15 cards come in. If they are on the omni version keep a hand with a etb trigger and Kgrip. otherwise land a needle or Revoker on sneak attack and attack it like game 1.
-1 Crop Rotation -2 Moments Peace, -2 Show and Tell, -1 Kozilek, -1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Bojuka Bog -1 Repeal, -1 Prime Time, -2 Glimmer Post, -1 Trinket Mage, -1 Engineered explosives, -1 Candle
Elves
If you are on the play try to repeal their fist turn play. Hold back Crop Rotation to get Chasm. if you are hiding under chasm make sure you have a plan for deathrite. Moment's peace shines in this match. The best was to win is to chain titans as fast as possible, while trying to disrupt what they are doing with repeals and explosives.
side: -3 Needle, -1 bog -1 trinket -1 caven of souls, +3 force +3 revoker
Death and Taxes
This match is base around how well you can play around their hate, and how fast you can get Titian online. Prioritize holding off crop Rotation for wastelands. naming Vial with needle may be just as effective at slowing them down as it would be naming wasteland. Repealing vial or an early mother of runes is not bad either. show and tell will win you the game if you can get it off. make sure you are not searching of eye right away as it can get waste-landed.
out of the side they may bring in Cataclyms.
side: -1 candle, -1 map, -1 bog, -1 Trinket mage, -1 caven of souls, -1 engineered explosives +2 Kgrip, +3 Revoker +1 flusterstorm
RUG Tempo
they want to try to wasteland and stifle you out of the game. Combat the mana denial by searching for basics early,l getting down needle on wasteland, or cropping in response to a wasteland. Repealing delver after flip feels dirty and should always be gone for if not just for the fun of it. Moment's peace will keep you in the late game and gives you two extra turns to get your shit together. Getting cavern down on giant helps a lot. after you get a giant search up glimmer posts until they cant combat the life swing anymore. Stifle will also allow them to stop your titian trigger so be wary if you are deciding between that and something else to save you from losing. EE helps a lot against flipped delvers as well. If you can get to turn 4 without any major messups you will probably win the game.
side: -1 map, -1 top +2 flusterstorm
same as game 1, they might bring in artifact hate, so be careful dropping early artifacts that you need to stick around.
Tendrils
You will probably lose game 1 unless you can hide a flusterstorm or a well timed croproation for bog under top.
side: -2 moment's peace, -3 pithing needle, -1 Candelabra, -2 show and tell, -2 repeal, +2 swam song, +2 fluster storm +4 force of will +1 blue elemental blast +3 phyrexian revoker.
Name lion's eye with revoker. put a top on the board and float counters. Make them go all in on something an punish them for it with hidden counters. after side the match is not too bad, you will likely be killing them with revoker.
that's all I got for now, I will add more later.