[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

@Emidlin:
@Koby:

Regarding this:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post678768

I've been testing the list and I've been thinking in SAndTell , Reanimator and BUG Strategies also,

I think this will be:
Reanimator:
+1 Duress
+3 Karakas
=
-4 gitaxian

SAndTell:
+1 Duress
+3 Karakas
=
-4 gitaxian

BUG Control: (Jaceliliana No Tarmo)
Maybe same as RUG?

BUG Tempo: (Tarmo Deathrite lately)
Maybe same as RUG?

- I don't think the second Tendrils base could be useful with Reanimator and SaTell
- The gitaxian I think is the card to take out on these match ups but really not sure, I just don't think -1 Grim could be a good idea and decreasing the Threat count. Maybe taking -2snaps as seems a slow card agains them leaving 2 gitaxian.
- The reality is that gitaxian seems to shine in these match ups so I don't think what to take, same is applicable to BUG.

Please give me your advice.

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Again.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Thanks for the input! If you were to board in 3 Carpet of Flowers against RUG Delver, what cards do you board out? Also, if you board in Abrupt Decays against Miracles for Counterbalance, what cards do you board out there?
Thanks

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Against RUG:
-2 Cabal Ritual
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Ponder (otD) or -1 Gitaxian Probe (otP)
+3 Carpet of Flowers
+1 Empty the Warrens

yesterday I squeezed the Bayou into my maindeck, going down to only two basics. Felt okay, but not amazing. Gaining an additional sideboard slot obviously was huge, so I need to test this more.
Cause both Grims of our playgroup were used I had to play 2 Snapcaster Mages in its slot. I hate to play not optimal lists and this definitely was one. ANT wants and needs at least one Grim Tutor in there.

I'm running 2 preordain, 1 grim tutor, 0 BW main, and the following sb:

3 abrupt decay
4 dread of night
1 empty the warrens
2 grafdigger's cage
3 xantid swarm
2 city of traitors

The cities are against daze and spell pierce out of rug and similar. They feel good, but not amazing, and I wonder if I should change them. Maybe to Sensei's Divining Tops, as they are great vs black-based disruption as well as okay vs miracles and rug, all hard matchups (as emildn recommended a couple of pages back). Any thoughts?

Also, would you bring in the xantid swarms vs rug? I feel they keep most bolts in anyway, and they can be stifled.

Should I maybe try something like an IGG for when I just want extra speed?

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Originally Posted by Anselm

I'm running 2 preordain, 1 grim tutor, 0 BW main, and the following sb:

3 abrupt decay
4 dread of night
1 empty the warrens
2 grafdigger's cage
3 xantid swarm
2 city of traitors

The cities are against daze and spell pierce out of rug and similar. They feel good, but not amazing, and I wonder if I should change them. Maybe to Sensei's Divining Tops, as they are great vs black-based disruption as well as okay vs miracles and rug, all hard matchups (as emildn recommended a couple of pages back). Any thoughts?

Also, would you bring in the xantid swarms vs rug? I feel they keep most bolts in anyway, and they can be stifled.

Should I maybe try something like an IGG for when I just want extra speed?

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I would board in the swarms versus rug, that is a bolt that is not pointed at your head (probably giving you about an extra 1/2 turn on average since their deck is all 3's) and a stifle that is not used on a something else. even if they do stifle it you can sac it to cabal therapy to clear the rest of the way.

Currently running a UBR build with wish & Past in flames. Having trouble against Chalice Post board (mostly maverick)
Which card(s) do you recommend? I've been thinking about meltdown instead of the usual hurkyl's recall. Pulverize is too high cost(2 mountains are hard to come by). Been playing with explosives, but they're pretty useless.

Current Sideboard:
4 dread of night
3 Bounce spells (changing from 3 wipe away to 2 chain 1 echoing truth. CB Has been hiding its power level the last weeks in our local meta)
6 Wish targets - Empty, Duress, Tendrils, Iggy, Massacre, Infest
3 open slots - This is where i'd like something to deal with the chalice, maybe some other sweet wish target.

Dredge/Grave hate is abscent. But i don't feel the need of any.

Also, this is my first post on the source! Yay me!

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Originally Posted by ThomasDowd

I would board in the swarms versus rug, that is a bolt that is not pointed at your head (probably giving you about an extra 1/2 turn on average since their deck is all 3's) and a stifle that is not used on a something else. even if they do stifle it you can sac it to cabal therapy to clear the rest of the way.

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Is Stifle really a problem for you guys? The only valid target (except for fetchlands which you should be able to play around) is the storm trigger. And if we have enugh storm count to tendrils them out then there should either be a Duress in the yard (PiF) or revealed with AdN. In my experience, the biggest problem against RUG ist getting to play your combo, not actually winning from that spot.

Downsides of Xantid Swarm in my opinion:
-you HAVE to fetch Tropical/Bayou to play it, so you´ll most definitely have mana issues from then on
-Delver of Secrets
-Lightning Bolt
-Stifle
-it needs one turn to have an impact. During that time, our opponent has 8 Cantrips. 4 Stifle and 4 Bolt to get a solution

So no, I would not board the in.
You should only consider Swarms in matchups where you either want to punish you opponent for boarding out their removal or against decks that can´t handle them (Reanimator otP, Show & Tell Decks, Merfolk) already.

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Originally Posted by Zerog

Currently running a UBR build with wish & Past in flames. Having trouble against Chalice Post board (mostly maverick)
Which card(s) do you recommend? I've been thinking about meltdown instead of the usual hurkyl's recall. Pulverize is too high cost(2 mountains are hard to come by). Been playing with explosives, but they're pretty useless.

Current Sideboard:
4 dread of night
3 Bounce spells (changing from 3 wipe away to 2 chain 1 echoing truth. CB Has been hiding its power level the last weeks in our local meta)
6 Wish targets - Empty, Duress, Tendrils, Iggy, Massacre, Infest
3 open slots - This is where i'd like something to deal with the chalice, maybe some other sweet wish target.

Dredge/Grave hate is abscent. But i don't feel the need of any.

Also, this is my first post on the source! Yay me!

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This is where the abrupt decay splash works very well - I would recommend a green source and 3 abrupt decay over the wipe away - it deals with both chalice and counterbalance

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Originally Posted by Zerog

Currently running a UBR build with wish & Past in flames. Having trouble against Chalice Post board (mostly maverick)
Which card(s) do you recommend? I've been thinking about meltdown instead of the usual hurkyl's recall. Pulverize is too high cost(2 mountains are hard to come by). Been playing with explosives, but they're pretty useless.

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I'd also use Meltdown in this case. It has the big advantage of having an "XR"-CC, so you can play around chalice on 1 if you need to & if it's a chalice on 0 that's bothering you, Meltdown just costs R.

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Originally Posted by aaronm678

This is where the abrupt decay splash works very well - I would recommend a green source and 3 abrupt decay over the wipe away - it deals with both chalice and counterbalance

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I've tried that. The manabase was too shaky. There is the strickt UB build in main with green splash in sideboard which seems quite good. But i believe you need atleast 2 grim tutors.

I'm gonna try with meltdown. the low cmc seems good.

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Originally Posted by Zerog

I've tried that. The manabase was too shaky. There is the strickt UB build in main with green splash in sideboard which seems quite good. But i believe you need atleast 2 grim tutors.

I'm gonna try with meltdown. the low cmc seems good.

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With eight fetches, it shouldn't be a problem. If not you can always try to play more than 1 green source, i.e trops and bayou. To sidetrack, do you guys believe grim tutor belongs in the main 60 or sideboard? If it's in the SB, the chances of getting it via burning wish will be higher.

This is my current list:

4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond

1x Tendrils Of Agony
1x Past in Flames
1x Ad Nauseam
3x Burning Wish
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Cabal Ritual
4x dark Ritual

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy

4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Island
1x Swamp

Sideboard
4x Dark Confidant
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Past in Flames
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Eye of Nowhere
1x Grim Tutor
1x Duress
1x Pyroclasm

First I had a Meltdown sb in place of the Duress, but i didn't use it much and needed something to tutor while having an useless Burning Wish in hand..
Dark Confidant is still working for me, but I noticed most people dropped it!

[QUOTE=mike1987;687661]With eight fetches, it shouldn't be a problem. If not you can always try to play more than 1 green source, i.e trops and bayou. To sidetrack, do you guys believe grim tutor belongs in the main 60 or sideboard? If it's in the SB, the chances of getting it via burning wish will be higher.[/QUOT

Was asking myself the same thing about Grim Tutor a few weeks ago when I picked up my second one.

Iv found 2 GT main makes your already shakey Ad Nauseam much worse. Another thing is, is I believe that 2 Grim Tutors main wantS Igg over PIF.

The one pro I liked was you dont need hellbent. Witch is super helpful of f an AnN flop that doesn't have LED in it.

Now that we have PIF Grim Tutor is better as a back up plan,better in the board.

In a tournament last weekend, I tried a couple of Sensei's Divining Tops in the sideboard, mainly against discard. They were awful, making me keep bad hands and just all around too slow. Think I might want an IGG in the sb against non-blue decks as it's faster than PiF when it works with LEDs. Still unsure about the best plan against RUG Delver. I used to have a couple of City of Traitors there, might test those again.

Hi all,

Reading and playing for a long time, most Dutch legacy/vintage players will know who I am.
I just wanted to tell you guys what I am working with and would like to know what you all think about it.

The MD I play at this moment.
4 X Polluted Delta
3 X Scalding Tarn
2 X Verdant Catacomb
2 X Underground Sea
1 X Tropical Island
1 X Badlands
1 X Island
1 X Swamp

4 X Cabal Ritual
4 X Dark Ritual
4 X Lion's Eye Diamond
4 X Lotus Petal

4 X Brainstorm
4 X Ponder
4 X Gitaxian Probe

4 X Infernal Tutor
2 X Snapcaster Mage
1 X Grim Tutor

4 X Cabal Therapy
3 X Duress

1 X Ad Nauseam
1 X Past in Flames
1 X Tendrils of Agony

I am still not sure about the Snapcasters, they can be really good or a brick in your hand.
I see people with 2x Grim Tutor and a extra land, or 2x Preordain in its place.
The second GT can also be a brick and the extra land can make you flood more often, the Preordains will let you dick deeper, but they are no business that let you win the game.

The mana base is really good, I prefer the Topical over the Volcanic because of the comment Emidln made.
If you play Abrupt Decay, you never want a Bayou and a Sea, but you want the Sea and a Tropical.
The Badlands is there for the Fetch lands, this way I can fetch all colors with all fetches.

The Sb is where it gets interesting.
SB: 3 Dread of Night
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Tropical Island
I have 2 open slots and don’t know for sure what I need in those slots.

I love Carpet against the BUG and RUG Tempo lists.
Decay + Swarm will be to much for Miracles.
Dread + Decay is a solid plan against Maverick
And Swarm against S&T is strong but not great.

I do not think I need extra discard in the SB, but at this point I almost think that 1 extra DoN and 1 extra Carpet will do the trick.

Would love to here your thoughts.

Greetz Zieby

Go for some bounce or/and a EtW else you can not beat a Leyline of Sanctity. Maybe not the most played card but still.

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

Again.

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I haven't played the Snapcaster build in a number of weeks. I changed them for a 2nd Grim Tutor and the 4th Duress. The only concern I would have against BUG builds compared to RUG is that they typicaly do bring in Extirpate/Surgical as an additional form of hate, and taking out their creature removal, along with their discard. Being exposed to their discard is the thing you want to minimize. There isn't much in this sideboard to handle that. The 2nd Tendrils is definitely necessary here.

Overal BUG is a tough matchup however. Discard + Counterspells + Wasteland is a tough trifecta to beat.

Sorry guys, maybe it's not very comman for you, but it's for me. What is our best option against burn??

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Sorry guys, maybe it's not very comman for you, but it's for me. What is our best option against burn??

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Win before they deal 20 damage?

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Originally Posted by Koby

Win before they deal 20 damage?

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I'm having troubles for that. Maybe i'm not lucky but they have almost perfect hand all the time. I'm not sure but i'm running 14 lands and 7 discard spots. I have a high mull ratio.

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

I'm having troubles for that. Maybe i'm not lucky but they have almost perfect hand all the time. I'm not sure but i'm running 14 lands and 7 discard spots. I have a high mull ratio.

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The earliest Burn can goldfish is turn 3, and that's by damaging themselves with Flame Rift and playing 2 Goblin Guides. Given that, ANT will more often than not be faster than this goldfish without having to use Ad Nauseam. Nevermind that event a partial, non-lethal Tendrils will buy sufficient time to find and cast Past in Flames to combo off again. I suggest you keep practicing the limits of the goldfish with ANT to learn when you can or cannot go off in face of pressure.