[Primer] Elves!

If I have a discard spell in my hand against a combo deck I'm going to save it for as long as I can. Developing your board before a discard spell is much better because you reduce the window in which they have to recover. I'll only fire off a T1 Discard spell on the play unless I have nothing else and I'll typically wait to cast it on turn 2 even on the draw, unless my opp is playing one of the Belcher-style decks or is something like TES (not ANT) and seems to have a strong hand.

For most combo decks (Sneak and Show, ANT, etc) you aren't that much slower than them. They are very unlikely to turn 1 you and not that likely to turn 2 you. Just take your licks from those games and don't give them the time to recover. This of course changes based on the texture of my hand. If I have enough discard to cripple them I won't risk losing to a fast draw. If I have very little disruption but a reasonable draw myself, I'm going to look to sequence so I get the most devastating discard I can and follow it up with plenty of pressure.

Before GP: Treasure Cruise & Dig Through Time I've been looking for some high-impact sideboard cards to add to an Elves archetype that's looking less and less promising for the GP as the new Cruise metagame shakes out (Containmment Priest also not helping).

The best I can come up with is Choke or Energy Storm (in a 2-3-of capacity). Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get too many games in to see the efficacy of either, and I'm wondering if anyone else has thoughts/experiences with either of these in the new legacy metagame post-Khans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absolutflipz

Before GP: Treasure Cruise & Dig Through Time I've been looking for some high-impact sideboard cards to add to an Elves archetype that's looking less and less promising for the GP as the new Cruise metagame shakes out (Containmment Priest also not helping).

The best I can come up with is Choke or Energy Storm (in a 2-3-of capacity). Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get too many games in to see the efficacy of either, and I'm wondering if anyone else has thoughts/experiences with either of these in the new legacy metagame post-Khans.

---

Absolute Law is something I am trying out right now and used to use during the Mirror Entity days.

It only really helps in the UR Delver matchup though.


I was trying our Energy Storm but have found it to be too taxing on the mana or it comes down to late.

absolute law is good vs goblins, punishing fire, and firestorm..

has anyone played swan song in recent times? I know it's been discussed but that was kinda before t.cruise/dig... the blue mana isn't the worst to keep up in the form of a DRS, birchlore, or fetch. You could even get real tricky and tap a DRS with quirion in play to feign being tapped out.

and think about this play:
2 delvers flying at you... abrupt decay one, swan song your own decay to block the other. seems like gg. a bit unreasonable, but not unfathomable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shagstaman

absolute law is good vs goblins, punishing fire, and firestorm..

has anyone played swan song in recent times? I know it's been discussed but that was kinda t.cruise/dig... the blue mana isn't the worst to keep up in the form of a DRS, birchlore, or fetch. You could even get real tricky and tap a DRS with quirion in play to feign being tapped out.

and think about this play:
2 delvers flying at you... abrupt decay one, swan song your own decay to block the other. seems like gg. a bit unreasonable, but not unfathomable.

---

The best thing it can do right now is let you block a Monastery Swiftspear and turns off the 2 for 1 Forked Bolt

Any thoughts on leyline of lifeforce in this deck?

I'm not sure leyline of lifeforce is really needed. Most decks don't run enough counters that can handle creatures, mostly daze and force. And it's not worth boarding leyline just for those cards. There is definite application against counterbalance, but you're probably better off just using decay to answer that card.

However, Leyline of Vitality actually sounds rather interesting. It means you can't get blown out by forked bolt 2-for-1s and the lifegain is highly relevant against any burn or delver player. If you open with it it costs you nothing, you get to just use it for free, and if you draw it later you probably have 4 mana to use anyway. It's probably not great, but I just thought I'd mention it seeing that a leyline was already mentioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valtrix

However, Leyline of Vitality actually sounds rather interesting. It means you can't get blown out by forked bolt 2-for-1s and the lifegain is highly relevant against any burn or delver player. If you open with it it costs you nothing, you get to just use it for free, and if you draw it later you probably have 4 mana to use anyway. It's probably not great, but I just thought I'd mention it seeing that a leyline was already mentioned.

---

It only works vs. Forked Bolt. Most of your creatures still die to Bolts and Rough//Tumble and Firestorm also still are cards.

Also, when I have 4 mana left over I'd rather just go ahead and cast, say, Natural Order.

Now, the lifegain could theoretically, however slightly, help you in the Storm-MU's but running those in your SB means you'd have to skip on stuff that you'd usually fight Storm with so that's just filling one hole with another. Don't get me wrong - at some point in time I ran an Essence Warden in my SB that would come in when facing Storm, and on occasion it even managed to save me from Storm once or twice, but there is a reason it doesn't have a spot in my SB anymore... Too often it does too little.

I think if U/R delver is going up and other delver styles are trending down, we can just play more copies of pendelhaven since there will be less opposing wasteland and it plays nice with rough/tumble, pyroclasm and forked bolt. I think it's not so good against punishing fire but still acceptable, the problem is those decks usually have ways to get wasteland either with Loam or KoTR so pendelhaven won't be around for long. Also nice to bait wasteland for safe cradle or black source if we have some relevant postboard cards that we need to cast.

Leylines seems pretty garbage, the cards are so clunky from mana cost and being very situational. I think its better to just run cavern of souls if you are very scared of counterspells and your opponent can only interact that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tombo175

Any thoughts on leyline of lifeforce in this deck?

---

Strictly better:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/226.jpg

And Cavern generally doesn't make the cut either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ESG

Strictly better:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/226.jpg

And Cavern generally doesn't make the cut either.

---

You're correct most lists don't play Cavern, but I've found it to be very effective in the MTGO meta.

Elves run too much non creature spells to make cavern of souls worthwhile, and also run non elf creatures like symbiote and ooze. On top of this, we are already a land-light deck and we can't afford to run inconsistent mana sources.

Besides, it doesn't matter at all if they counter our creatures because usually we win with glimpse or natural order.... i would probably consider a boseju to make order resolve before adding a cavern of souls.

However, cavern of souls would certainly be an all star in more midrange lists that resemble goblins .... although that would just probably be a worse deck than goblins, and it's not like goblins are doing well right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krasman

Leyline of Lifeforce is good against Engineered Plague as well as Golgari Charm and there is always some kind of Stompy variant and MUD in my meta so it would help versus Chalice of the Void

I may try to squeeze a couple in and test it out.

---

You are mixing up 2 Leylines... Leyline of Lifeforce does shit against Engineered Plague and Golgari Charm.

I also can't remember the last time I lost to a deck playing those cards.

And CotV even though annoying is something we can handle quite well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Echelon

You are mixing up 2 Leylines... Leyline of Lifeforce does shit against Engineered Plague and Golgari Charm.

I also can't remember the last time I lost to a deck playing those cards.

And CotV even though annoying is something we can handle quite well.

---

Yup I am retarded this morning apparently and combined both Leylines; that would be a sweet card if it existed though.

When I played at the scg open in Worcester, I specifically sided Leyline in for the UR delver match up because the 2 for 1 Forked Bolt is generally the edge they need to pull ahead. The life gain is a good tempo piece as well and can keep you out of burn range. It also has some benefit against Engineered Plague, Golgari Charm, and Darkblast. I didn't see it often, but it would have gotten me past my round 3 UR delver opponent if I had not miss played and forgotten the opening hand trigger. I does get worse when it is not free, but can still be relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Echelon

It only works vs. Forked Bolt. Most of your creatures still die to Bolts and Rough//Tumble and Firestorm also still are cards.

Also, when I have 4 mana left over I'd rather just go ahead and cast, say, Natural Order.

Now, the lifegain could theoretically, however slightly, help you in the Storm-MU's but running those in your SB means you'd have to skip on stuff that you'd usually fight Storm with so that's just filling one hole with another. Don't get me wrong - at some point in time I ran an Essence Warden in my SB that would come in when facing Storm, and on occasion it even managed to save me from Storm once or twice, but there is a reason it doesn't have a spot in my SB anymore... Too often it does too little.

---

What are people's thoughts on me bringing Elves to GP New Jersey?

I am packing 4 Abrupt Decay in the SB, but I might change 1 of those to a Golgari Charm since all the delver decks are packing Rough and Tumble I've been noticing on MTGO. I dunno if others are going to follow that model for paper magic, but it seems Elves is in trouble due to all the hate coming. I want to play the blue build with flusterstorm, and swan song, but I am not sure if I should play Edric? What are thoughts in terms of the ideal build of Elves for GP NJ?

Should I wait and see what does well at Columbus tomorrow?

I am a noob when it comes to Elves, in that I haven't played it enough at a high level. So any advice would be appreciated :).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Golgari4Life

What are people's thoughts on me bringing Elves to GP New Jersey?

I am packing 4 Abrupt Decay in the SB, but I might change 1 of those to a Golgari Charm since all the delver decks are packing Rough and Tumble I've been noticing on MTGO. I dunno if others are going to follow that model for paper magic, but it seems Elves is in trouble due to all the hate coming. I want to play the blue build with flusterstorm, and swan song, but I am not sure if I should play Edric? What are thoughts in terms of the ideal build of Elves for GP NJ?

Should I wait and see what does well at Columbus tomorrow?

I am a noob when it comes to Elves, in that I haven't played it enough at a high level. So any advice would be appreciated :).

---

The biggest thing with going to a large event is knowing how to play your own deck well. You can't reasonably predict your matchups (especially on day one) when the field is so large, so focusing on the factors you can control, such as tight play and solid mulligans, will help you to make the best of whatever pairings you do get.
I generally hedge towards Delver variants when I go to a larger field though, since I've found storm decks to be less prominent in the general magic community. Additionally, the mediocre storm and control players will likely be in losing brackets after the first few rounds as well, those decks reward good play and can more severely punishes mistakes than some other deck options - so your odds to running into those types of things, I find, aren't super high in the mid rounds.

4 Decay, or 3 Decay and a Disfigure - which I was pleased with last week - would probably be a reasonable choice.

The best advice is just to stick with whatever build you feel comfortable with, especially mainboard. As long as you have a solidified sideboard plan for the major matchups, you should be alright - Elves is pretty powerful already and tight play is generally more important than a super tuned sideboard - especially with only a few flex slots in Elves.

Hagan,

Can you tell me the list you'd play? I have some byes so I want to play a deck that's quick and somewhat aggressive. I also was considering having some toys in the SB against decks that want to bolt my guys etc... I was thinking a 1 of Imperious Perfect as bad as that sounds it might be solid for the mirror match also.

Right now I am running Ruric Thar maindeck with ooze, and reclamation sage. I just think a lot of hate will be around for Elves. I also tend to draw my fatties in my openers which is a little bit off putting. I expect a lot of miracles, delver, and stoneblade out of the decks I'm concerned about and then storm, reanimator, elves.

Do you like any of the new commander cards for the SB?

I have a few days to settle on my final 75 but I do want some advice in the right direction. I played combo back in the day with Worldgorger Dragon so I don't have the most experience with Elf Ball but its all my friends can lend me because they are playing Maverick, D&T, and my favorite deck Jund is right not poorly positioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Golgari4Life

I am a noob when it comes to Elves, in that I haven't played it enough at a high level. So any advice would be appreciated :).

---

Elves really punishes new players. It's probably the hardest list to play aside from Miracles. I've watched several players in my meta struggle with it for months and finally become quite good with it. It's the way that it fundamentally changes the rules on summoning sickness that is the hardest to grasp in terms of combos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Golgari4Life

Hagan,

Can you tell me the list you'd play? I have some byes so I want to play a deck that's quick and somewhat aggressive. I also was considering having some toys in the SB against decks that want to bolt my guys etc... I was thinking a 1 of Imperious Perfect as bad as that sounds it might be solid for the mirror match also.

Right now I am running Ruric Thar maindeck with ooze, and reclamation sage. I just think a lot of hate will be around for Elves. I also tend to draw my fatties in my openers which is a little bit off putting. I expect a lot of miracles, delver, and stoneblade out of the decks I'm concerned about and then storm, reanimator, elves.

Do you like any of the new commander cards for the SB?

I have a few days to settle on my final 75 but I do want some advice in the right direction. I played combo back in the day with Worldgorger Dragon so I don't have the most experience with Elf Ball but its all my friends can lend me because they are playing Maverick, D&T, and my favorite deck Jund is right not poorly positioned.

---

I'll comment on FoolofaTook as well. I think Elves is relatively easy to win games with, it has some hands that play themselves and are vastly more powerful than what your opponent can handle. That can rarely last over the course of a longer tournament, however, at which point knowing how to play the deck to maximize efficiency can really edge out a couple more wins in the long run.

Ruric Thar main might be fine right now. I've never wanted it, but if it works for you then awesome. I've been running 2 Birchlore, 3 Heritage, 3 Nettle Sentinel, 0 Llanowar Elves (decklist in signature). Birchlore is a bit better to recover from Forked Bolts and such, but that's another matter of preference.

My sideboard recently has been
2 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Disfigure
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

I haven't been impressed with Progenitus as much recently, probably don't need it if you have Ruric.
Pithing Needle has been marginal, as has Sylvan Library in all honesty. Depends on what you're worried about though.
I also haven't played against Storm in months(?). When I go into a tournament my primary targets are UR Delver, BUG Delver, Miracles, Random Jank, Goblins. In that order. I like having versatile sideboard cards to cover my bases against random decks, but the main focus is beating the delver decks I run into every round. (I swear I've played against Goblins in every 5+ round tournament I've entered the last two years).