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I think I can get behind that, sdematt, I can make those changes and add more combo hate (probably 2 more duresses or a duress+iok) to the side. I did like Top's interaction with Loam and Bob, but good use of Sylvan makes Bob fine as well, so I can agree with all of that. Redundant copies of Knights / Deathrites will probably be a better game 1 choice for the most part now that I consider the option.
I'll let you all know how this weekend goes, if my instincts are correct I think I'll do ok.
Rock finally made it to DTB? AWESOME!!! Keep it up guys!
Kich867:
Run some Therapy if you have souls. It's been awesome for me. It's ok even if you miss because you can find out which lands to waste or what to save Decay for. I suggest running Dryad Arbor and green fetch if you're running GSZ and therapy main for even more value. Turn 2s will get much better with acceleration as well. I agree with sdematt - a deck that heavy on the manabase can't afford to spin tops. 2 Library and 4 Confidant are enough for this deck IMO. This is around 8 cards off from the deck I played last week. I tested SDT there and I could barely spin it because my mana was all invested on ooze, DRS, souls, and the cards I drew off Bob.
Is there any sort of consensus on what the typical Junk deck is running these days? I've seen everything from Lingering Souls and Liliana to GSZ and KotR... I suppose it depends on whether you favor the B or G side more..?
There seem to be two main variations; one leans towards Lingering Souls, Cabal Therapy and sometimes Jitte or some other equip. Another plays a little more discard and incorporates Liliana. Then again, some builds make more use out of GSZ and use a toolbox of creatures. The build varies, and should vary, depending on your meta and your play style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
There was a recent deck that won without KotR but that's an aberration, KotR is just about a staple in most builds.
Check this site out for a look at many different builds that have been successful.
Nice rock is at DTB section now!, It's been a busy months so i miss lots of legacy scenes in my local and here at the source and i want to revive/replenish my rock build. What is the current build that junk/rock holds? i've seen lingering souls+liliana plan, some builds GSZ+relentless plan.
"I'm so sick of these random Legacy deck names. I'm sure there'll never be a need to distinguish superficially similar decklists with unique and particular appellations." - StarcityQuote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
eta: I'm sorry, I meant, "Large online Magic card and strategy company."
Won a local 12 man last night.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Maelstrom Pulse
--BOARD--
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Pithing Needle
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
I went 3-0-1 against the newest Matt Nass Elf build, then played against Goblins, then Monoblack Pox, then tied with DDFT. I'll write a tournament report when I get back from getting my flu shot :/
I changed to build up to try some different cards, I'll let you know how they were. Loam was obviously amazing against Pox.
-Matt
sdematt -
How was your experience of 3x Sylvan and 0x SDT? I've pretty much always rocked 2-3x Top and 0-1x Library and found it to be quite awesome (Library is viewed as Bob #5 to me most times).
Sylvan is the best card in the deck. Sylvan is the best thing you can be doing on Turn 1 or Turn 8; the card is busted good whenever you play it (unless you're already dead). It's card advantage is HUGE against derdly decks like Miracles, and still has value against everything since it just helps you FIND the other cards you want. It's one of the few cards I've never boarded out a copy. People who talk about the diminishing returns of having too many Sylvans are correct that this CAN be an issue. However, with all the Abrupt Decay/EE/Detention Sphere, you'll want more than the one copy. It's the card I gun down in any BGx mirror, since whoever has Sylvan stick wins the game. Top is fine, but it's not the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
-Matt
Hey Matt,
why no liliana in your built? Is the zenith-path so much better?
Hey!
Long time follower first time poster. Been playing rock for 2-3 years now and just had a quick question.
How would I deal with esperblade pre and post board?
I have been having issues against my friend. Haven't won a single set yet =(
Thanks!
Yeah, tell me about it. They've done a ton of good for Legacy, but deck naming isn't their strong suite.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
So, from what I can tell it seems like most builds are something like a core of Goyfs, Bobs, and Deathrites with two of the following: KotR, Souls, GSZ, and Liliana (with Liliana being the more fringe of the four). A lot of the recent winning lists used Souls.
How many of you guys are running Sylvan over Tops? I feel out of date running 3x tops.... I'm seeing so many new decks lists without them :eyebrow:
I've slowly moved from 2 tops and 1 Sylvan to 3 Sylvan, saving mana to play with top just slows me down.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
I've always loved Sylvan Library. Green Necropotence + Top? Sign me up!
As others have stated, the card advantage you get from it (because your life total doesn't really matter) against Control gives them fits. The manipulation allows you to match their Tops & Brainstorms.
Against Aggro, it's not as amazing, but still very powerful because it allows you to find your removal when you really need to find it.
With multiples, the only time it's bad is if you draw another one before you get one down. Otherwise, it's a lot like multiple Tops - you're not going to draw any more unless you want to. As Matt pointed out, in the current meta where Abrupt Decay is all over the place, having multiples isn't really a bad thing either.
I'm not actually into this deck (archetype?) particularly right now, but my general lean in Junk midrange builds has been 3 Top, 2 Library. Having the effect reliably is really important, it makes grinding infinitely easier. This particular split also reduces the number of dead cards in hand while making it very likely to have filtering available in any given game.
At the moment, there is no Liliana in this build. Liliana and Green Sun's Zenith essentially are competing for the same slot.Quote:
Hey Matt,
why no liliana in your built? Is the zenith-path so much better?
Is GSZ better? I think it depends. In Jund, they cannot run GSZ because it leads to awful situations with BBE cascades, so they run Liliana instead. However, I think this is really up to the individual. With all the Lingering Souls, protecting a Planeswalker can be difficult. Liliana is very strong in her +1 and -2 abilities, but I also like the consistency of GSZ being able to fetch more Knights, Goyfs, or Deathrites than my opponent. I've always leaned for consistency over explosivity in my Junk builds. While this is not to say Liliana isn't consistent, I just feel like she's a little fragile compared to running a card that increases my creature threat density and allows different sideboard options (Gaddock Teeg being tutorable is a big deal).
I think this really come down to playstyle, in all honesty. Liliana has her benefits in dumping extra copies of things in the yard to feed Goyf, Knight, DRS (especially if you're running what IBA suggested, 3 Top 2 Library. Throwing an artifact or Enchantment in the yard means Goyfs gets big and can't be affected by an opposing DRS), and GSZ has benefits in tutoring bullets and throwing out more Goyfs and DRS than your opponents.
Pre-board, I feel like the cards you really don't want to see is the Snapcaster-Swords to Plowshares shenanigans. That gets awful quickly. Remember to use your discard effectively. Making them discard a Brainstorm could be fine at the time, but i think the key is keeping DRS onboard to negate the effectiveness of Snapcaster Mage (who in turn negates the effects of your discard spells). Souls tokens are a beating since they chump your Goyfs, and then they just hook up equipment. Keep swinging in, and don't waste removal on tokens, but instead go for the Equipment.Quote:
Hey!
Long time follower first time poster. Been playing rock for 2-3 years now and just had a quick question.
How would I deal with esperblade pre and post board?
I have been having issues against my friend. Haven't won a single set yet =(
Thanks!
Post-board, if you have E. Plague, bring that in. I usually board out Swords to Plowshares here (blasphemy!) and some hand disruption and bring in Deed, Qasali, Needle, Teeg, and Ooze. You're really just afraid of Snapcaster-STP and Equipment along with active Jaces. Take out the Jace and you're usually fine, since they're stuck with a bunch of 1/1's. For my build:
-3 STP
-1 LFTL
-1 IOK
-1 Garruk Relentless (too fragile)
-2 Thoughtseize (yes, it can muck their Equipment after they tutor with Batterskull, I know that, however, I just think there's better cards to bring in)
+2 Needle (for Jace, Jitte, etc. Not necessary, but it's not bad)
+2 Teeg (shuts off EE, Jace, Verdict, hardcast Batterskull)
+1 Qasali (tutorable Equipment removal)
+2 Pernicious Deed (muck their board)
+1 Ooze (for mucking Snapcaster and Souls)
-Matt
That sounds logical. I think I will give gsz a chance in my deck.
Especially the ability to tutor for SB cards seems to be very strong...