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Question: Do you bring in K-Grip for RUG Delver? I've been bringing in Surgical for Wasteland/FoW and Trinisphere lately, but I got blown out last night by Pithing Needle on Expedition Map. I haven't had much time to play lately, but is Needle a thing in Delver now?
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Yes i do. I board in 2 Krosan grip. Normally you can side out some cards like 1 top or some other slow card.
Surgical is not needed, Needle is enough should be enough.
For what do you play FoW. I mean you don't want waste cards and RUG Delver have always more counters..
Specially when you play UG, constants is very important here.
I think Trinisphere is too slow.
Greets
I think you misunderstood me. I don't bring in FoW (or play UG). FoW is my secondary target to hit with Surgical. I usually don't care about Daze or Spell Pierce after turn 2 or 3, and FoW is their only real answer to a board wipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
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So last night we had a secret Santa legacy deck swap. We were each assigned a person to build the deck they would most likely hate to play. There was one copy of RockLees latest Bant post deck. It obviously didn't go well for that individual, as I think it's the hardest version of the deck to play. I watched him get destroyed by lands, lol!
We still couldn't figure out why there were 4x surgical extractions in the sideboard. I'm going to guess that's just a metagame thing? I personally would never play more than two copies of it.
Of course, someone gave me the most unoriginal deck ever, good old rug delver. Even with rug delver, still couldn't out race burn lol!
It is sometimes. I actually had a RUG player board in - and I'm not kidding - Blood Moon one time, which I totally didn't expect. I had freely used Crop Rotation on my only basic Forest before that came down, and yeah...it ended badly for me. In all seriousness, I usually board in at least a grip or two every match. Minus anti-Show and Tell tech, most of the stuff decks have to use against us are either artifacts or enchantments, and if nothing else it's also a great way to keep from being surprised: like totally not expecting RUG to bring in Blood Moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Short question concerning UG builds: anyone playing 5 fetchlands? What color is No 5? Thx
Just split them up. I've had Pithing Needle blow me out on naming Misty Rainforest before, so although it rarely matters, I just split them up among all the blue fetches. So if you're running basic Forests, run 4 Mistys and then just decide which blue fetchland has the coolest art, and run one of those. If you're not running basic Forests, just split your fetches among all the blue fetches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
I run 1 Island and 1 Forest, and right now 4 Misty Rainforest (no split for a certain reason). Often I decide to go with 5 fetchlands, and usually I would add a fifth blue one. But there were several games in the last weeks I needed the forest as quick as possible, that's why I am unsure wether blue or green is more important :-/Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Yes to the dryad arbor question. And I am not in love with that card either and am seriously considering taking it out. However, it is quite good in certain MUs and is fun to sac to Liliana when your opponent think's they've got you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphix
Problem with Courser is that it doesn't actually advance your lands at all. So no, wouldn't ever play courser. Give me Courser's ass on Oracle and you could make an argument. Like I said, the new G/R guy is very playable I think. I would also consider titania, protector of Argoth. She does have a small ass but she does net you a land and her other effect is pretty powerful as well. Probably a SB slot at best though.
As for k-grip against RUG, since I am playing GSZ, I usually just bring in the one reclamation sage. they way it's not a totally dead card if they don't have one of their artifact hate cards out. I can also obviously go searching for it as well. K-grip usually comes in for me just against stoneforge decks, Miracles, MUD and blood moon decks.
ps, one last thing. I am kinda missing Ancient Stirrings in my deck. People really go after the Expedition Maps in sideboarded games (with needles, abrupt decays, etc) and I've had some difficulty finding my posts. I might cut one needle (since I can more easily find them with stirrings anyway ) and maybe one other card (a crop rotation maybe?) to fit in 2 stirrings back into my list.
I play RUG I always bring in my pithing needle against 12 post. Most RUG lists have at least 1 in their 75. I also bring in REB, Surgical, and maybe Ancient Grudge (to kill YOUR pithing needles :tongue: ).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Personally just because Oracle of Mul Daya keeps their removal alive, doesn't mean I do not want it. Oracle is still a card they must answer as it ramps us as well as supplies us with card advantage and the ability to dig deeper through top decked lands. Because of this our opponent's have to keep removal in their deck that is otherwise bad removal against us (lightning bolt), which in turn limits the amount of cards they can trim and makes side boarding more difficult for them. In my experience at least. As a sidenote I am excited for the new RG guy. He seems like he is worth a splash into red.
Went with a revamp'd version of G/w Post this week. Got 2nd, only loss to U/R when I couldn't draw a land, top, crop, map, or lifegain in 9-11 cards, two games in a row. Much tragic.
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [U] Savannah
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
3 [ME] Forest (2)
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [BNG] Courser of Kruphix
1 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
2 [BFZ] Retreat to Kazandu
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
1 [LG] Sylvan Library
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [MMA] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [M15] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [IA] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 [NPH] Melira, Sylvok Outcast
Deck felt extremely smooth. fetching into dryad arbor with Retreat to Kazandu out eot, then hitting with a 5/5 is quite bonkers, allowing for even more usages of Crop rotation.
To answer maCHOOga's question, x4 Surgical are there to give you turn 0-2 plays against combo before the bears come down and do the heavy lifting.
I've worked on a list similar to your Bant list. I really like the idea of Terminus with brainstorm and top for removal. I've been running it online as well as paper and getting pretty good results. I think I might be switching out Pithing Needle for Phyrexian Revoker. Paper version has 4 show and tell, online has Tabernacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Here is my build:
//Land (25)
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Savannah
4x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
2x Windswept Heath
//Creature (11)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Platinum Emperion
4x Primeval Titan
3x Trinket Mage
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
//Artifact (11)
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top
//Instant (6)
3x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
//Sorcery (7)
3x Show and Tell
4x Terminus
//Sideboard (15)
3x Krosan Grip
1x Show and Tell
4x Surgical Extraction
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Trickbind
This thing holds it's ground really well. I do miss Vesuva and Maze of Ith though, might try to build it to accommodate the 2 again. I've been trying to play with the idea of using Enlightened Tutor in the deck but then would require more white mana source which feels too thinned out to run show and tell version. Perhaps in a GW version? I will be going to a tournament this weekend running the list above. Hopefully it should pan out well. Lots of Delver players around here.
I plan on running GW Post at a local tournament on Sunday. The list is inspired by John Kassari's GP list and the one Rock Lee is running right now. Besides the fact that I'm new to the deck and still make a lot of misplays, I'm really struggling with my sideboarding. Most of the time it's rather obvious what to bring in, but oftentimes I've got no clue what to board out.
It would be great if you guys could provide me with a "priority" list of which cards you would cut first, then second and so on.
The matchups I'm really unsure about are Delver (BUG/RUG), Shardless, Jund and 4c Loam/Punishing Abzan (whatever you want to call it)
The List:
4 Primeval Titan
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Moment's Peace
1 All Is Dust
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dawnstrider
1 Reclamation Sage
Thanks in advance ;)
My advice to sideboarding has and always will be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baum
Having a stock in/out list is a one-way trip to failure. Local player Ross Merriam and SCG point #4 atm also agrees. Going into matchups assuming you will side out X for Y is always bad. What is a better approach is:
1) have broad ideas of what is good/bad,
2) observe what is in their deck to counter, and
3) know/anticipate what will come in against you.
This is a good approach to both sideboarding, but also mulliganing, and play.
Example with Death and Taxes.
1) Their approach is mana taxing, mine is mana building. They will try to lock/grind me out, while I am trying to go over their denial and ramp into fatties.
2) Their best cards are rishadan port, wasteland. mediocre cards are Phyrexian revoker and Thalia. Tricks involve them Flickerwisping my lands/blockers/buildup for an alpha strike swing in, protection to targetted removal with Mother of Runes, Waiting on 3 mana with Aven Mindcensor for searches, Vialing in Revoker/Thalia when you have Map/Candelabra/Top or only 1 mana for crop/brainstorm/repeal. Their most important card is Aether vial, allowing them to mana tax or threaten you (equip/stp/aven mindcensor tricks) with their lands.
3) Sideboard cards to be aware of are Aven Mindcensor, Cataclysm/Armageddon, Spirit of the Labyrinth. They cannot sideboard Null Rod.
Thus you can conclude that -Bog, -Chasm, -Repeals, -(1-2) tops, -(1-2) maps, -(1 candelabra), -(1-2 fatties) for Artifact destruction, ways of dealing with a X/(1-2) toughness creature, and possible combat tricks.
My current list is very strong against DnT main, but I still side in x2 Kgrip, x1 Reclamation Sage, x2 Thalia, Guardian of Sumptin, and took out x1 bog, x1 chasm, x1 top, x1 map, x1 Cavern of Souls in my last matchup (this recent week in the finals), but this would change depending on their build. (example. they ran x4 dust bowls. If they ran chalice, red splash, green splash, more aggro, more control, I would alter this significantly)
Thanks for the feedback. There is also a high probability I'm on the GW train for this weekends event!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
So what should be the gameplan against lands? Obviously there's a desire to surgical Life or Dark Depths. The lack of repeals means its Crop Rotation for Chasm/Karakas or bust right? I almost feel like one has to mulligan to pithing needle or crop rotation.
Lastly, why are you opting not to play Stage + Dark Depths? Do you think it makes the deck too inconsistent?
Against lands, if I do not have needle/crop, relic is big, but my favorite way to beat them is to gain 3-4 life, then just cast ugin and exile the token. This build can gain loads of life, making the matchup just as much a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
In testing I found Stage/Depths to always be a turn 5 kill, and very vulnerable to things the deck already is vulnerable to (wasteland completely stops it), or could have previously ignored (stp/bounce/lifegain). I found that Retreat to Kazandu allowed for a kill 2-3 turns after playing it if you went all in on the plan, which is good enough while still being productive under pressure.
With Surgical or Rest in Peace I think the matchup is pretty easy, provided that you can make lots of mana as well. Needle therefore plays a key role and I don't keep hands without it unless they have 2 basics and something relevant to do with them (e.g. map for Karakas). What to name with needle depends a great deal on what they have in play/graveyard and what your hand allows you to do. Crop Rotation alone is not good enough, I think, since they can easily deal with whatever land you get and just present Marit Lage again before you are likely to steamroll them. You really want permanent answers first before getting fancy with your lands. Once you can stop them from messing with your mana, though, crushing them becomes easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Since they basically can't remove Primeval Titan, getting one in play almost always leads to a win but it can require some creative maneuvering to do so. I once rotated into Vesuva copying a port with which to EOT tap their port so that they couldn't port my Cloudpost and I could GSZ for titan, for instance.
If you're playing in the P9 tournament, good luck. I'll be out of town but hopefully a Post player will still do well.
On an unrelated note, I 4-0'ed a local event with a low-GSZ build I've been trying out:
-------------------------
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
3 Forest, Misty Rainforest
2 Cavern of Souls,
1 Savannah, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Karakas, Glacial Chasm, Khalni Garden, Thespian's Stage, Dark Depths
-------------------------
4 Primeval Titan
2 Oracle of Mul Daya, Ugin
1 Emrakul, Kozilek, Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger
-------------------------
4 Crop Rotation, Top
3 Expedition Map, Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Explore, Candelabra, GSZ, All is Dust, Moment's Peace
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sacred Ground, Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle, Hangarback Walker
Round 1 vs. stripped-down budget U/G Post (2-0): Candelabra enables some grossly powerful plays that steamroll my opponent.
Round 2 vs. Burn (2-1): I lost game 1 to a Swiftspear-powered bolt draw without doing anything beyond activating Top. In game 2, Trinisphere locks out Price of Progress long enough to assemble Stage-Depths, helped by Explore. Explore shows up again in game 3 and allows me to hold up Crop Rotation -> Chasm while assembling Marit Lage again. I boarded in only 3 Leylines, never saw them, and never missed them either. Explore seemed much more relevant.
Round 3 vs. Dredge (2-1): I keep 6 with one land on the strength of a Map and Crop Rotation, hoping to find a green source (I knew my opponent was playing dredge and prioritized quick access to Bojuka Bog). I don't find a green source, wait too long to play Chasm, and lose. Game 2 sees Relic slow down the graveyard action long enough for Trinisphere to arrive and lock out spells from my opponent. Primeval Titan then seals the game. In game 3 my opponent fails to dredge into a second dredger and resorts to 1/1 beatdown. Ulamog laughs all the way to the match slip.
I boarded out all my Pithing Needles but I'm not sure that is best. My opponent powered through Bojuka Bog in game 1 with Faithless Looting, and I decided Putrid Imp/Coliseum weren't reason enough to keep needles. Those cards were a bit of a problem in game 2 but not too much to handle.
Round 4 vs. Reanimator (2-1): I hoped to test the effectiveness of Relic in this matchup but never saw it. I name Griselbrand with a T2 Needle and my opponent just cantrips. I resolve Primeval Titan via Cavern of Souls to search up Karakas and the the Stage to go with a naturally drawn Depths causing a concession. In game 2 I have Crop Rotation in hand and decide to hold it up at all times with mana for Daze. I think this ended up costing me the game, as I don't develop a significant board and he was able to reanimate two creatures with Force of Will for the Crop Rotation. In retrospect it might well have been better to lead with Cloudposts and take the risk of an early reanimation. In the deciding game, I deploy a top, needle on Griselbrand, and Candelabra which enables a T4 cast Kozilek. Kozilek draws a Crop Rotation which is enough to stop an attempt at reanimating Ashen Rider. Kozilek then annihilates my opponent's hopes, dreams, and lands.
I'm curious how you other G/w players approach the Reanimator matchup. It feels a bit shaky but I don't see what more there is to do. I used to play Rest in Peace but found it too hard to get white mana early and replaced it with maindeck relics. What are thoughts on sphere effects here?
Impressive cards: Trinisphere, Explore, Candelabra, Stage/Depths
I imagine it doesn't surprise anyone else here, but although I knew Candelabra would be strong I was surprised at how much activating it felt like being strapped to a rocket, particularly in game 3 against Reanimator. Wow!
Lackluster card: Leyline of Sanctity
I returned to having this card in the sideboard because of Storm (against which it has performed admirably), and assumed it would be good against Burn as well. Ironically, all but one game that I've won against Burn I won without Leyline and I think now that that is no coincidence. The matchup really tests the quality of Post's draws and Leyline compels you to keep hands that are otherwise poor since you can't realistically cast it in time, and unlike Storm the Burn deck will damage you while you hide behind Leyline. Fortunately we do have the tools to beat Burn unassisted and I think the focus should be on that. I plan to bring in the full four spheres before the first Leyline next time.
Personally I have 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Natural Order, 1 Bojuka Bog, 1 Maze of Ith, and an Oblivion Stone that I bring in. The 6 I trim for those are the 4 Explore, 1 Primeval Titan and 1 tabernacle. I make these changes because the early ramp with explore doesn't do enough, bringing in extra natural order helps me get titans easier and the tabernacle exchanges with maze to help against non legend creatures attacking aside from inkwell leviathan. The 1 card I don't want to see in this match up is tidespout tyrant especially if they have a hand full of lotus petals and cantrips. You're likely never beating that card without the ability to prevent it coming into play, or swords to plowshares/terminus to get rid of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
http://i68.tinypic.com/jziud4.jpg
THIS!
SOOOOOO great. Perfect also with S&T.