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Fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
IF you play Cage, it's because it's the single handedly best Dredge hate, if you can protect it. Thus, you'd want it in decks that run Spell Pierce and Force, because with Cage in play, Dredge can only use "half" Cabal Therapies and has a really hard time getting rid of cage. In Goblins, however, things are different. I'd much rather want Crypt or even better, Faerie Macabre.
Shenanigans! I cry Shenanigans!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Wort is super shitty, ESPECIALLY against BUG.
Wort Returns Target goblin from GY, Deathrite removes targetted goblin, gains 2 life
Wort attacks with Fear, BUG has B creatures
Wort can't be Abrubtly Decayed ; lots of goblins that aren't playable can't be abruptly decayed....
Ringleader >>>>>>>>>>> Wort
Krenko >>>> Wort
Tuktuk > Wort
How about you stop worrying about narrow GY hate cards and just splash W for Rest in Peace? Since, ya know, it's better than all the other cards you listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Hahahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Your comment actually makes a lot of sense. =]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
I think resolving a Krenko vs. BUG or Maverick is GG, especially if it has haste. Deed can be an issue though.
@BUG:
What about tarfiring their Shaman? it's a goblin card, costs 1cc (so good use of your mana on the draw), and will prevent him from gaining tons of life over the course of the game.
I always find myself wondering about Tarfire. Still, most of the time it doesn't make the cut, and I'm never too sure why.
What do you think?
@Splashing: I'm trying a RBg build now.
Main Deck:
the usual core and stuff, except for:
1x Tinstreet Hooligan (though it is usual for g builds)
1x Piledriver (only)
2x Earwig Squad
SB:
2x Krosan Grip
3x REB
4x Leyline of the Void/ or Relic of Progenitus
3x Duress
3x Perish
Overall, I'd say that it gives me a faster disruption than the mana taxing route, while also giving me options to disrupt post-side. I find a stuck thalia to be good at giving both of us more turns, though if you don't put enough pressure to seal the deal on that window of opportunity you only managed to make your opponent draw a bunch of cards. (I might be wrong, and I should have tested Thalia much more, I'll give you that)
Let's see the individual cards:
- I've been testing Earwig Squad main deck and finding it really interesting. Need more test though, as it is really reliant on you finding either a Lackey or a Mogg War Marshall early game. Lackey into Matron into Squad is a nice play IMHO, powered by Cavern of Souls. It mirrors my taste for Sluaghter Game's effect :P while also being one turn faster and stuck on a 5/3 body. It also trades nicely with 4/5 Goyfs. Let me stress this enough, though: needs more test.
- I do like the idea of mulliganning into either leyline, though I could see Leyline becoming Relic easily. Perish though makes me more able to kill goys and reliquaries in one shot.
- by the way, Perish seems to me like a nice out against Maverick and Elves. One could argue that these matchups could be won by either Relics or Chalice/Pyrokinesis though, but I've lost against an elf deck despite of chalice of the void for one just because he was sure sure sure that I was playing pyrokinesis and brought in a couple of rule of law. Perish doesn't care about Mom, though it doesn't touch it either.
- Duress: I wouldn't mind following up a stoneforge with a discard effect. Wouldn't mind it against combo either. Yes it is counterable, and yes our deck has counter reliability, but most of the solutions against those decks are counterable as well.
Sideboarding plans as of now:
- Show and Tell: +3 REB, +3 Duress, -6 removal
- Combo: varies, but +3 REB +3 Duress +2 Krosan Grip if against enchant/artifact based ones, -4 Vial, -2 or -4 removal.
- Maverick: +3 Perish, +2 Krosan Grip, -4 Lackey, -1 Piledriver. If +4 Relics then -4 Vial.
- Stoneblade: +3 Duress, +2 Krosan Grip, -1 Stingscourger, and not even sure where to remove the other cards. Haven't figured that matchup 100% yet. Need more tests...
- UW/Energy Field: +2 Krosan Grips, +3 Duress, +1 REB, -6 removal
- RUG thresh: +4 GY hate or +3 Perish, not sure where to go from here.
- Elf: +3 Perish, -3 Lackey
- mirror w/ Thalia: I've more goblins, and I have a good body with extraction effect. No sideboard changes
Let me say this again: I need more test, and perhaps I should be giving Rwx another go, but I do want to try some disruptive strategy using black.
results shall be brought to the war council this week ASAP.
I have been to another tournament and finished 3-3. I played 3 stingscourger MD and 0 MWM. It was meh. Most of the times I was happy to draw stingscourger but it also happened that I was 1 goblin short to get full value out of gempalm and that is a big deal.
I won against D&T, BUG and monoB pox. I lost aginst BUG, burn, BUG.
Man, my meta is turning really BUG heavy. Abrupt decay is fine, it is just another removal spell against goblins, I am not worry about it. But the new shaman is crazy, he ramps, gains life and drains life. And the fact that he is a 1/2 for one mana it is also a huge thing against goblins, globlin lackey is just sad. I think time has come to fit some rest in peace in the board, no more excuses. BUG decks play 4 shaman and 4tarmo so it would be great to have some good GY hate. On the other hand they play deed so RIP is gonna be destroyed eventually. Needle may be worth considering as well. Blood moon has even lost some of its value against BUG because this shaman fixes their mana so they can fetch basics easily. Their mana base became more resilient. tarfire is probably not the solution because it pumps tarmos. Another problem is that they have many good flying creatures: clique, delver and the bird that cantrips. It is hard to keep all these flyers from beating your face while they have tarmo on the groung protecting them from your goblins.
@fimo: You are mistaking BUG Delver for DeedStill. Same colors, but very different decks. If you see a Delver you can be certain that there is no Pernicious Deed in the 75. I just checked all the BUG decks that have top-20'd over the past month in SCG Opens. Not a single Deed among them. This is undoubtably because BUG Delver's main threats are 0, 1, and 2 CC creatures. DeedStill's win cons are manlands, plainswalkers, and GY recursion. They are very different decks. BUG Delver cannot afford to blow up its own creatures with Deed. If you see Deathrite Shaman you can be pretty certain Deed will not be a factor that game. Heaven forbid they do run it, you should be grateful. Let them nuke their entire board to kill your MWM. I checked the last few pages of the Team America thread on the Source. I only saw 2 lists that included Deed. One was attached to a 1-3 drop report and the other was a hypothetical and Deed looked very out of place.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Saw a couple E Plagues though.
Just played a BUG deck featuring Deeds, shaman, but no Delvers. First of all...Rest in Peace was game over for them. I played it and the other guy couldn't do anything after except flash in random Snapcasters. I am totally going with the W splash now. Also ports and wastes screwed him over a bunch...tapping him off green so he couldn't play goyfs was really helpful.
Lastly, in the games I played, they came out a lot faster than me with the freaking 1/2 Deathrite dude, but I ground out an ugly game in which he just conceded because of the length. Stifle nuked a bunch of my matrons and RL's tho...just as a side note. Anyway, it doesn't seem to be that bad of a matchup...just some thoughts and observations.
Actually one question...is U hate worth siding in against BUG? I put RIP and Pyrokinesises but what about REBs?
You are playing W-splash and Ports? Can you tell me your mana base?Quote:
Originally Posted by Potdindy
I'm playing RWg and theres no place for them altough it would be nice with Thalia...
My mana base:
4x Wasteland
4x Cavern of souls
6x Fetchies
2x Plateau
1x Taiga
1x Karakas
4x Mountain
Nevertheless w splash is amazing! Rest in peace is so strong you can't deny it!
My next tournament is next week so i'm going forward to give you a feedback how it worked.
Hello, i'm meyerlink, a frenchie.
I play a goblin with w-splash, my list : what do you think ?
//NAME: Goblin Maiden
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Siege-gang Commander
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
1 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Mountain
3 Wasteland
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Rest In Peace
SB: 3 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Oblivion ring
SB: 3 Chalice of the void
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental
Pretty solid, but i would play 3 MWM and 1 Chieftain OR 4 MWM!Quote:
Originally Posted by meyerlink
Mana base looks good but if you have a Karakas i would play one instead of Plains. Protects your Thalia and Krenko and can be a surprise against S&T!
Also i think you should play 4 Wastelands and only 1 Wooded Foothills.
About your SB: Please don't cut Pyrokinesis! You have to play at least 3 of them! (-2 O-Ring / -1 Pyroplast)
You are right, I have been superficial in writing that stuff, but it was late at night when I wrote those things after the tournament :tongue:.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
I wrote that I played against 3 BUG lists but they were actually pretty different. The first one was a BUG nic fit variant running veteran explorer, cabal therapy and pernicius deed. Here I saw deed. It may be wrong to call it BUG but those are the colors it runs, let s call it nic fit with blue. The second list was some sort of BUG control (very control): liliana, manlands, no delver here. I did not see deed here but I guess it could fit in very well. The third list was BUG aggro/tempo: delver, clique, tarmo. No deed in this list. However, ALL these lists ran the awsome shaman and it always gave me problems. I prefer when they play delver because you can gemplam it turn 2 and connect with lackey. It is not possible to do that against the shaman, not even if you are on the play. Between the shaman and the tarmos lackey does nothing. The MU is not impossible but it became harder than it used to be because of deathrite shaman. That card deserves serious attention, it is not "just another mana dork".
I play RWG...or at least I am testing that out for the first time. I haven't bought all the lands for it since they are super expensive, but am proxying for now. I doubt I will ever have all 4 ports, so I am running 2 of them, 3-4 Caverns, and obviously 4 Wastelands plus 1 each of plateau and taiga. The rest are mountains except 4 fetches. I got super depressed when I saw that Karakas was $100 so none of that one. 22 lands seems a solid number especially when you have vial, and the mana-denial can destroy tempo decks like Team America that want only 2-3 lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korvo
If they have just Delvers and 0 Shamans, then swap Kinesis for ReB, bot Reb is not worth dilluting your deck against Bug or Esper lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Potdindy
You can be sure I am appreciating your uses of the term :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Today I tested against Esper Blade with my Rwg list, I decided to cut the 3 ports that I used to run (-3 ports +1 Mountain +1 fetch +1 karakas) and I have to say that I didn't miss them, the manabase seems better since you always have R and you don't open a hand of seven with for example 2 ports and 1 wasteland.
I will continue testing it against other pairings :smile:
Thats the point. When you're playing Rwg it maybe isn't possible to play with ports... With mono-w it would be ok but i really don't want to play without Krosan Grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven
What do you say? You faced Esperblade yesterday. Is Krosan Grip necessary or would Seal of Cleansing do the same job?
Because the idea of playing 3 Thalia, 4 Wastelands and 3 Ports is nice...
I think it is necessary to play KG. You have 4 Cavern of souls so they usually have counters in hand for your non-goblin spells because they couldn't counter your creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korvo
Yeah that's the problem. They keep they'r counterspells in hand so they can counter every non goblin source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven
So summarized we Gobo Players have to play Rwg because of KG. But that also means we have to cut Ports because we need a stabilized mana base.
What do the experienced players think?