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I think your name in the Tez match up is correct. This deck has difficulty beating lots of men. And if he makes men, and you ZP, then what? He makes more men. Plating you can beat. It just is difficult. I think name is right anyway. You can always rip a vindicate to get it out of there.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
12 post seems like a miserable match up. Wasteland is good unless he needles it, which is likely. Otherwise, you just have trouble interacting in any meaningful way.
That's probably right. Thopter Foundry is a hard card for us to beat. I found that out against Tezzerator a couple weeks ago. But so is Cranial Plating with Etched Champion. This matchup really made me wish for a third Vindicate. I did get EE on 3 out against his Champion but never was able to pop it safely. Oh well, bad matchup against a relatively unpopular deck isn't the worst thing in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Yeah, he got needle on Wasteland in two of our games, and in the third I just lost to turn 3 show and tell. After the first two rounds last night I was considering boarding Stony Silence since the matchups where I want it aren't great Stoneforge matchups anyway. Honestly I was more annoyed with myself for forgetting my Eye needle when he activated it until it was too late. Even though I got the effect in the end it was just poor form. There were 4 needle effects in play at the time though: Mine on Eye, his on Waste and Stoneforge, and the Revoker on Expedition Map (which was a non-factor due to Humility).
I actually don't think this matchup is terrible for us because we can swords all their baddies except 1 and vindicate their lands if they shut off Wasteland. It takes them quite a while to build up that land base. Not letting them attack with Primetime is key.
True, I did forget about Stone Rain. Still don't think the MU is amazing, but I can see what you are saying. If you have Humility out, and they cast Ulamog, it can destroy the Humility still correct?
Yeah. It's a cast trigger so they get it. Then you respond with Swords. But in my case he also had Karakas. Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I don't think it's a great matchup, but it's a pretty slow setup and we have lots of disruption. Their S&T package is really small, it's not like playing against sneak and show. They want to cast the Eldrazi to get the triggers. So they absolutely have to find a Needle for Wasteland against us — but we have Vindicate, which can blow up the needles if we have waste on board or just take out their crucial lands. Then they have to find Prime Time, but that just gets them tapped lands before we kill it. Then they still have to have enough mana to cast the Eldrazi which isn't just something to be taken for granted. Post, Post, Trop, Trop, Primetime, Eye, Post is the nut draw and they still aren't casting an Eldrazi till turn 5 or 6. Meanwhile you've Seized them, started drawing sac effects off Bob, SFM for something. It's a good deck but not unbeatable for us. I had garbage game 2 and probably should've kept my 7 with the 5 lands. Then in game 3 he just had it all at the end, but I had the board stalled out pretty nicely.
I also might have made a sequencing error, as I O-ringed off an early S&T to nab his Primetime even though i also had Humility. I wanted to keep my 2 power attacker (revoker) for a better clock, but that let him get his Primetime trigger which led to him grabbing the Karakas he needed later. Not letting him get the free lands is probably better.
Arbiter/Mindcensor seem like allstars in the 12 Post matchups. There's certainly a chance they'll naturally ramp into fatties off post, but cutting off Crop Rotation, Eye, and Primetime seems like a pretty good speedbump.
I actually was just thinking about testing Mindcensor over Gatekeeper. So many games are won by a souls token carrying equipment, a 2-power instant speed flyer with a relevant ability seems super good. Especially if you can pass turn 2 on the play with DRS+two lands up, dropping that thing when they try to fetch on their turn would be ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
I love the progress this deck has been making since the beginning of the TNN era.
Has Gatekeeper not been pulling his weight, is Shriekmaw just better, or is this unrelated to the correlation of the two black removal creatures? If it's unrelated, why drop Gatekeeper over the Maw?
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This deck has about 2 or 3 "flex" slots for you to put some favorite cards into.Crusader, revoker, hero,etc.
Shriekmaw can take out emrakul off of SnT, is versatile in casting cost because it has different "modes", and if you get full value, you get a man that can race TNN punch for punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Gatekeeper I only don't like because of his casting cost. Triple black in a deck where I want to play basic plains, plus 4 wasteland is rough in my eyes.
I play both Shriekmaw and Gatekeeper. I don't think one is strictly better than the other. I play more Shriekmaws (2) than Gatekeepers (1) mainly because it's a 2 mana removal spell.
Since I don't play Abrupt Decay, I feel the need to have a 2 mana removal spell. And I went with a Gatekeeper to help against True-Name Nemesis. And where I'm from there was a lot of Sneak attack going around (less so now). I've killed quite a few Emrakuls with Shriekmaw. LOL, screw Delver I've got my own 3/2 with evasion that just took out an Eldrazi.
Yeah, ever since the TNN era, Deadguy has been on a tear for me.
I agree, there are quite a few flex slots that vary quite a bit from person to person. I like Vindicates, Hero and Shriekmaw. Other people go with Revokers and Sculler. I actually liked the one list with one Sculler main and an E. tutor board. Being able to tutor for Thoughtseize on a dude seems awesome.
Agreed. I was thinking about replacing the one Stillmoon from my list with a single Sculler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Second this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I like Gatekeeper but I only run one. BBB can be hard to get sometimes.
And since this deck usually doesn't kill that fast, getting to 5 mana to hardcast Shriekmaw is totally possible. A 2 for 1 and getting a creature with fear is awesome. And IMO Shriekmaw goes with the overall Deadguy gameplan... Having the potential to be a 2 for 1 card.
And even if not, like you said, it is a 2 mana removal spell vs delver decks that can't be pierced. The announcers on SCG while I was boarding on cam were wondering why we dont run Path to Exile for Delver. Mostly because stuff like Shriekmaw, Souls, STP, Liliana, and Vindicate already give us an insanely high amount of cards that are awesome vs the deck. The great thing is that most of these cards are generally just really good in a lot of match ups.
I have been running Urborg to make Gatekeeper easier, but I'm definitely trying the Mindcensor plan for a week. So I'll probably go to 4 scrubs and a Karakas or chapel over the urborg. I think flash + evasion is a good enough fit for the deck, but tack on a relevant ability and it seems like it could be an all-star.
My only fear with Shriekmaw is flipping it to Bob. I have been running SDT in that slot to keep my average CMC down and that helps me dig for other removal which has worked pretty well, in addition to helping manage Bob.
Oh. See I've kind of just been like, fuck it. If it flips to bob, it flips to bob.
Didn't realize it was you Megadeus that I was playing against in the top 8. Have to say that I've always been a fan of your comments on here, very level headed and well thought out. Hope to play against you again, also if I ever don't feel like playing ANT I'll check this thread out and see what you have to say.
Does this deck really need Thalia? Considering the amount of non-creature spells in the main, it would seem that the drawback is far greater than the potential benefit. Exactly which MUs do you board in her? Surely running more Canonists would be preferable against combo, especially if you also run Enlightened Tutor.
Thalia is for post board. Most likely you are boarding out a number of spells vs combo like STP's or lingering Souls or something so Thalia hurts you less, plus she slows the opponent down so well. Her combined with Wastelands and a well placed Vindicate can really lock an opponent out of the game. I wouldn't cut her personally. Canonist prevents your opponent from actually killing you, but it doesnt slow their can tripping down and they can simply sculpt a hand with ponders and brainstorms easily to simply like Chain of Vapor it eot and kill you.
Thalia is for sideboard. Running her maindeck while playing a deck with more spells than creatures... is ridiculus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonntag
Combo != storm. Thalia would also hurt combo decks, like Sneak attack or dredge.
Thalia does some work in the tempo match as well. This deck is more prepared to play around her than say, RUG Delver. Thalia is also a better combat creature than Canonist because of 1st strike. You also have the choice of playing her when it's best for you, allowing you to play your relevant spells before dropping her and riding the tempo swing to victory.
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