Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lormador
Maybe I'll just spend more time watching Jarvis Yu's channel and try to get better with the pure RG version of the deck. I think what's going on right now is that Jarvis is able to very precisely place the 20/20 in whatever gap exists in the opponent's defenses. When I play, it's not as precise, I wind up just generally collecting value and only go for the kill as either desperation or to finish off a totally helpless opponent.
I don't think precisely timing the token is key, but rather the inevitability of creating the token over and over again.
Instead of setting up the perfect circumstances (full control) for the kill, try the recursiveness of Marit Lage as a way to add pressure to the board, draining answers until she finally connects.
Now that countertop's gone, this is quite effective against Miracles G1, as inevitability is no longer on their side.
It's also not that easy for Miracles to answer your first token, as they had few time to set up a Terminus, and don't have a Swords in the yard for Snapcaster yet.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Yeah, a 20/20 factory is a beautiful thing when they can't interact with it.
Lately I've been taking a walk down memory lane and exploring ancient builds of the deck, you know: back when it used to sport 4 Manabond 4 Intuition and 38 lands. It's remarkably not bad! The pilots of yore really knew how to put on a smooth mana denial sleeper hold.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lormador
Yeah, a 20/20 factory is a beautiful thing when they can't interact with it.
Lately I've been taking a walk down memory lane and exploring ancient builds of the deck, you know: back when it used to sport 4 Manabond 4 Intuition and 38 lands. It's remarkably not bad! The pilots of yore really knew how to put on a smooth mana denial sleeper hold.
Oh, please post one or two of these old Decklists. I'm very interested. Maye we all stick to much on the new things even the old ones would be still nice or nice again...
(back those days, I had only my own implementation of Lands without community-input. Found it great to draw 4 cards every turn, cast the one spell and put down 3 lands by having manabond and oath of scholars out. Attacking with manlands. Then countering the opponent with null brooch :-) )
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OldSpellMaster
Oh, please post one or two of these old Decklists. I'm very interested. Maye we all stick to much on the new things even the old ones would be still nice or nice again...
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...3-primer-lands
The original lists were running Gambles, Nantuko Monasteries, and Mulch (with 43 lands).
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...84479-43-lands
I was in the middle of building the deck back in 2012 when DRS hit the scene. This caused Lands to drop Factories for the PF/Grove package. I was mortified! I wanted to play Lands, not spells.
:mad:
For a brief moment I was considering abandoning the deck. But it was still cooler than any other deck in any format (plus I had just bought a Tabby), so I went ahead. Glad I did.
:smile:
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
I have older decklist pictures but this is shortly after I started foiling a bit and probably the nicest looking photo/scan I have in the second era of lands.
https://i.imgur.com/FfBXBdW.jpg
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Me and a friend of mnie are comnig to MKM Series Prague. Are we going to meet any of you guys around there somewhere? :)
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sparkii
I have older decklist pictures but this is shortly after I started foiling a bit and probably the nicest looking photo/scan I have in the second era of lands.
https://i.imgur.com/FfBXBdW.jpg
What about pre-modern (especially pre-loam) lists?
I know it wasn't so good but anyway fun those days (Urza block). Had some great ideas (Mox Diamond, Manabond, Crop Rotation) good ideas (manlands, oath of scholars), interesting ideas (Null Brooch, The Abyss, Sacred Ground, Horn of Greed) and stupid ideas (Pyramids, Equinox) in it...
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Here is an old zvi article about turbolands from that era, pretty cool looking to me. Wasn't playing then so I'm not sure if that's what you referring to though.
https://www.wizards.com/sideboard/ar...?x=sb20001110b
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
The old lists certainly are charming, both for those of us who were actually playing the deck at that time and more recent converts to Marit Lage. They have a different flow to them, depending on the list of course, going really hard on the graveyard and more aggressively attacking mana than the combo/control hybrid most of us play today.
It's not necessarily purely as a joke or an exercise in historical curiosity, either. Stage/Depths is colorless and only takes a few slots, and it's pretty obvious what to take out for it if you want a quick "update" to an antique deck.
The main difference I've noticed probably stems from running 4 Manabond. That card is dirty!
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Tried out 2 Ramunap Excavator out of the sideboard (removed Choke and a 4th Sphere) against control decks last night at FNM. Was a kill-ASAP card for them. The really good Lands player at the store felt I should just play Crucible but it makes me wonder. It did allow me to discard lands to a Mox and then get the land back.
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Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grmpytopdecker
Tried out 2 Ramunap Excavator out of the sideboard (removed Choke and a 4th Sphere) against control decks last night at FNM. Was a kill-ASAP card for them. The really good Lands player at the store felt I should just play Crucible but it makes me wonder. It did allow me to discard lands to a Mox and then get the land back.
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I agree with your friends: if you want a non-loam card to recur your lands from the graveyard crucible is your card. It does the same thing and it's harder to deal with.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supremePINEAPPLE
believe me, I remembered some years ago(2010 or 2011), there was a thread on source or an article somewhere talking about legacy turbolands using horn of greed. Thus, one of my friends bulit that deck for fun and was crashed by my zoo deck for whole night, then I never saw him playing it again.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Has anybody tired REB/pyroblast in the sideboard?
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoblinZ
believe me, I remembered some years ago(2010 or 2011), there was a thread on source or an article somewhere talking about legacy turbolands using horn of greed. Thus, one of my friends bulit that deck for fun and was crashed by my zoo deck for whole night, then I never saw him playing it again.
So, I think I've learned a few things.
First, TurboLands is NOT Lands. It only tried to get fast mana in form if lands and didn't try to do much with abilitylands except for Wasteland and Chasm or Glaciers.
The first real Lands decks were Eternal Garden or 4x-lands.
Second: Lands needs a landrecursion from grave so CoW or Loam. All solutions before that are not really good. If you draw the lands fast and bring them into play doesn't help if your keycard hits the grave.
I still like the idea of having almost lands only. So I don't like we went down from about 42 to 36 lands.
We could rise up that number by changing Gambles to TW and PF to Barbarian Rings and Groves to Tropical Islands ;-)
And if we look back and try older cards again, I think it would be Smoke Stack, Endnaring Bridge, Worm Harvest, some manlands and Intuition ;-)
OR things nobody used before
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Speaking of Tolaria West - 2 copies in the second place list from MKM Prauge.
Also a 2/2 GQ/Port split, which I dislike in theory. But I'm glad to see T.West getting results. I seem to do well with it, but I've become almost embarrassed to admit it lately.
:wink:
Congratulations to Steffen Möller!
http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...e-2017-legacy/
Quote:
STEFFEN MÖLLER – LANDS
MAIN DECK:
4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
3 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Academy Ruins
3 Maze of Ith
2 Dark Depths
3 Thespian Stage
4 Wasteland
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Rishadan Port
2 Tolaria West
1 Sheltered Thicket
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Foothills
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Tropical Island
2 Taiga
1 Forest
SIDEBOARD:
3 Krosan Grip
1 Song of the Dryads
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
My maindeck is similar:
+1 BRing / -1 EE
+2 Vortex / -1 PF
+2 Port / -1 GQ
-1 Taiga
-1 Crop Rotation
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoblinZ
Has anybody tired REB/pyroblast in the sideboard?
I have not. But I'm inclined to think Warping Wail is better in our combo matches, which is where we might want counter-magic.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
wow！I am seriously considering splashing blue recently for I failed to get drop of honey in a reasonable price on ebay, but there are a few match-up I really dislike splashing, such as ur burn or burn.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoblinZ
but there are a few match-up I really dislike splashing, such as ur burn or burn.
T.West finds Zorb. It's a bit slow, but on the other hand resolving a tutor vs UR (vs having it countered) can make or break a game.
I'm not saying you should prefer a blue splash in these matches. Just that there is an upside.
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
And that's precisely where I'm coming back from, so I can give you a short report :)
There was 300 players in the main event (day 2 me and a friend of mine - both playing RG - didn't manage to register for a trial due to lack of space with modern main event being played the same day). Over a 100 of delvers in various forms (46 grixis), about 20 death&taxes, the same for elves and sneak&show, 30 deathblades, over 20 Leovold BUGs, something like 17 miracles, 10 BR reanimators, 7 lands (including us), 8 food chains, 8 eldrazi, over 40 different builds.
Round 1:
I sat in front of the guy who reached semi-finals in Vintage day before.
G1: I kept a solid hand with some acceleration in form of Exploration, both combo pieces. I was about to kill him turn 4, when the Food Chain landed on the table and ininte Balista showed up right after that. The odds of getting this particular matchup with 300 players where like 2,7%, but I tried not to start bitching about it too much.
G2: I started with combo available turn 3 and Krosan Grip in hand. Mox was Forced, Krosan Grip was discarded with Collective Brutality turn 2 -_- Food chain t3, I still had a combo available turn 4 and kill turn 5, yet the wheel stared spinnig again. I Rotated for Chasm in responce to Ballista, but my Marit faced two unkillable Griffins in the air. I couldn't get second Grip before Chasm finished me off.
Round 2:
We both had to mulligan, I kept a risky hand without combo acces, just with Molten Vortex and 5 lands, hoping for delver / drs deck. Opponent mulled to 5, kept, showed me basic and drs. I killed 3 shamans, 2 strixes, destroyed his basic with quarter, returned it with Petrified Field and destroyed second. That was defintely too much for him.
G2: He goes wide, I'm playing patiently, knowing he has Swords (Confidant draw) and that he knows what I do have in hand (he took out Gamble instead of Rotation - big mistake). I forced him to feed me with my own Tracker, burned his Strix, allowing to Extract PFire and rotated for missing Depths when he was one mana short for Edict thabks to Rishadan.
Round 3:
G1: I kept a hand with combo, exploration, grove, pfire, gamble and loam. I saw him fetching for Island, playing Ponder, hoping for Delver to come. What came instead was two Lotus Petals and Sneak Attack with both Emrakul and Griselbrand.
G2: Started with Sphere, mox, combo and Primevail Titan in hand. Taxation did nothing due to four Petals. Show&Tell played, if he will show Emrakul or Griselbrand I'll still have him with Titan supported by Karakas, Maze and combo next turn. Obviously, it had to be Sneak Attack. Emrakul + Griselbrand = game over.
Round 4
I knew... no, I had to believe that it can't get any worse from there.
G1: I've sat against BUG manabase, killed one DRS, yet after that drew horribly and couldn't get out from 2 strixes, 2 shamans and FoWs. I was quite confident though sideboarding for g2, knowing I can manage 2-1 win.
G2: Lot's of patience playing against his DRS, Relic of Progenitus etc. I made him use his Edict when I wanted it, cheated his FoW with Petrified field and had combo ready again for next turn kill. Then second Food Chain showed up. I guess the odds where like 1,5% now.
Round 5
Demoralized as I was, I simply wanted to play as much as I can endure.
G1: Another solid hand with fast combo available and an out for the unknown in form of Gamble. Opponent on play. Badlands - Ritual - Griselbrand - petals in play - 3 Chancellors in grave -Unmask to me. I didn't want him to know what he's playing against, so I simply surrendered and started to sideboard.
G2: No hate in hand, yet super fast combo with Mox and Exploration, Maze and Loam. His grave Titan had to face Marit, I didn't blocked the Titan not to allow him to bring it back and make even more zombies. Marit for token. Maze for Titan, I start digging with Loam for Tabernacle. He playes Griselbrand and Chancellor in one turn with Spirit Guide and Petals, I try some gimmicks with Thricket and double Loam, but still can't find Tabernacle, Maze, Glacial nor event second Maze. He addmits he comboed this good for the first time today.
Round 6
I face some Stonebladle with a smile, we both up to only fun now. I control him as I like, taxing with ports and Tabernacle. He draw 4 Wastelands in a row, I exchanded 2 for my own, destroyed third with Stage copying it while I tapped it with Port, wastes 4th when he tried to kill second Stage which I turned into a forest ( he had to call a judge cause he couldn't believe the interaction). Everything was fine except that I didn't drew a single Loam for 20 minutes. One Marit eat swords, his Nemezis finally did the job.
G2: Tabernacle, stage, fetch, Mox, Loam, Tracker and Grip. The only thing I need for safety is one land. He plays needle into Thespian, I know I have time, he plays around Tabernacle, also short in mana and cheap creatures. For next 20 minutes I can't draw nor dredge a single land.
Round 7
There is no air in the air, no brain in the skull, no point in life.
G1: I kept whatever hand, waiting for my friend who goes 4-2-2 if he will play on. I face UW controll with nothing but Jaces, Snapcaster, Mystics and counterspells. After 60 minutes of play I've killed 3 Jaces, 3 snapcasters and 2 mystics, made 5 tokens, had around 14 lands with Manabond, 3 Pfires in grave, 2 loams in hand and 60 life. He had single Nemezis with Jitta and Butterskull, what resulted in a draw after last turn of termination, when we where unable to even read the cards.
Enough was enough. My friend dopped with wins against Grixis, Elves, and some kind of RUB controll deck, drew with 4c Delver (also a guy from my venue) and Death&Taxes, lost to BG Depths, Jund and BUG leovold. Another Polish player from our venue, Tomasz Szadziul, made 5th place with his elves, losing in quaterfinals 1-2 against the winner. Congrats to the 2nd, RUG lands build - seems he did get the right matchups he should ;)
Re: [Primer] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OldSpellMaster
So, I think I've learned a few things.
First, TurboLands is NOT Lands. It only tried to get fast mana in form if lands and didn't try to do much with abilitylands except for Wasteland and Chasm or Glaciers.
The first real Lands decks were Eternal Garden or 4x-lands.
Second: Lands needs a landrecursion from grave so CoW or Loam. All solutions before that are not really good. If you draw the lands fast and bring them into play doesn't help if your keycard hits the grave.
I still like the idea of having almost lands only. So I don't like we went down from about 42 to 36 lands.
We could rise up that number by changing Gambles to TW and PF to Barbarian Rings and Groves to Tropical Islands ;-)
And if we look back and try older cards again, I think it would be Smoke Stack, Endnaring Bridge, Worm Harvest, some manlands and Intuition ;-)
OR things nobody used before
TurboLand was a deck developed by Zvi (the mad scientist) Mowshowitz.
He won a Grand Prix in 2003 with it:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x.../gpno03/finals
