[DTB] Vial Goblins

From what I've seen / tested:

Using Wort against dredge: picking up a stingscourger/ incinerator/ sgc or even the occasional matron each turn is hard to fight. Since they run little (if any) removal, SGC can produce a ton of goblins, sacrificing some to remove their bridges, he becomes a nightmare for them on the other side of the board. Incinerator/sgc just means you leave 2 mana untapped for the rest of the game since their combo resolves on their turn pre-combat main phase. Hell, I've cycled turn 2 incinerator on my own lackey to slow down (and eventually win) several games. This is a hard match though. I run crypt over relic in the board so I don't lose tempo, but that's a personal and meta choice.

I'm not sure as to others' opinion on all of this, but that's what I've found so far in testing with this deck. Hope this helped!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kinda

A normal Rb goblins build runs 30 goblins md (+22 land, 4 weirding, 4 vial)...now if you take out 7 goblins for 4 perish/3 pyrokinesis (personally I don't like pyrokinesis due to this problem)...you only have 23 goblin creatures...that's not enough...it is for merfolk but they don't run ringleader/lackey. Also, zoo only needs 2 land to function and over half the time you won't even get vial in your opener.

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Ringleader will still hit Warren Weirding, which is good against Zoo (except for pumping Goyf).

I don't recommend taking out ringleader, ever. He's what makes this deck so powerful. In your example, you still have 27 goblins md, so almost 50% chance of goblins is still pretty damn good.

I run Leyline because it is SO good against graveyard based decks. Its easy to say "dredge has bounce effects" but in playtesting, a mull to leyline is a near guaranteed win against them. Not to mention, its also spectacular against reanimator and prevents them from turn 1ing you g2/g3. Its true that its weaker against decks like thresh, but I'm iffy as it is bringing in gy hate against them anyways.

Hi all. I've spent the last 2 days reading the last 50 pages of this thread. Phew!

Is the following a pretty standard FoulQ-type Mono-Red list? I never realised this deck was so tight! I know he had a tourney report where he posted a list, but seemed like a few cards were missing due to availability or something. Haven't seen a mono-red posted lately with the 23-land base so yeah - did I miss anything?

4 Vial
4 Lackey
3 Instigator
4 Piledriver
3 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm
4 Matron
4 Warchief
2 Chieftan
4 Ringleader
3 SGC

17 Mountain
4 Wasteland
2 Port

SB as Meta requires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonBarber

I run Leyline because it is SO good against graveyard based decks. Its easy to say "dredge has bounce effects" but in playtesting, a mull to leyline is a near guaranteed win against them. Not to mention, its also spectacular against reanimator and prevents them from turn 1ing you g2/g3. Its true that its weaker against decks like thresh, but I'm iffy as it is bringing in gy hate against them anyways.

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Decks like thresh and others that have a minimal usage of their graveyard are the reason I prefer running non leyline Graveyard hate. That way you can put in like 2 graveyard removal instead of 4. Do you ever board in 2 Leylines for instance? Because this has always kept me from obtaining and running Leylines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Is the following a pretty standard FoulQ-type Mono-Red list? I never realised this deck was so tight! I know he had a tourney report where he posted a list, but seemed like a few cards were missing due to availability or something. Haven't seen a mono-red posted lately with the 23-land base so yeah - did I miss anything?

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Your list looks good for a mixed/unknown meta. If you find there to be alot of agro I'd probably drop Warren Instigator in favor of Mogg War Marshall or to fill out the Gempalm and Chieftain slots. By the same token if you find there to be a disproportionate amount of control or combo, I could see going 4 Warren Instigator and dropping a Stingscourger.

SB I'd suggest:
3-4 Pyrokenesis
3-4 Relic/Crypt/Rav Trap/Faerie McCabre
3-4 Chalice/Thorn/MB Trap
2-3 Blood Moon
0-2 Pithing Needle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonBarber

I don't recommend taking out ringleader, ever. He's what makes this deck so powerful. In your example, you still have 27 goblins md, so almost 50% chance of goblins is still pretty damn good.

I run Leyline because it is SO good against graveyard based decks. Its easy to say "dredge has bounce effects" but in playtesting, a mull to leyline is a near guaranteed win against them. Not to mention, its also spectacular against reanimator and prevents them from turn 1ing you g2/g3. Its true that its weaker against decks like thresh, but I'm iffy as it is bringing in gy hate against them anyways.

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I like all of these thoughts. I run 4 leyline cuz its redic against dredge and reanimator. I wouldn't bring it in against thresh, not worth it really imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Hi all. I've spent the last 2 days reading the last 50 pages of this thread. Phew!

Is the following a pretty standard FoulQ-type Mono-Red list? I never realised this deck was so tight! I know he had a tourney report where he posted a list, but seemed like a few cards were missing due to availability or something. Haven't seen a mono-red posted lately with the 23-land base so yeah - did I miss anything?

4 Vial
4 Lackey
3 Instigator
4 Piledriver
3 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm
4 Matron
4 Warchief
2 Chieftan
4 Ringleader
3 SGC

17 Mountain
4 Wasteland
2 Port

SB as Meta requires.

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Your list is pretty much the standard Goblin list. My list is almost similar, the difference being: -1 Piledriver, -1 Warchief, -1 Mountain, +1 Incinerator, +1 Chieftain, +1 Rishadan Port.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kinda

A normal Rb goblins build runs 30 goblins md (+22 land, 4 weirding, 4 vial)...

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I'm not really sure about this, since I think that Gempalm is better MD than Weirding (the reason becomes obvious when your opponent does not have much creatures, or much creatures that should worry you - then Weirding is almost dead card but on the other hand, Gempalm gives you at least some card advantage). But I have to admit, that sometimes, Weirding is irreplacable... it's also true, that you can do some awesome tricks with [Weirding + Wort] (but then again, you can do even more awesome trick with [Gempalm + Wort]).

Btw, I updated my deck again after learning from few advices here (Thanks for them :))
I included some notes

NON-LANDS (34 Goblin cards)
// (Following 20 cards are in my opinion core which should not be changed unless siding)
4x Aether Vial
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader

3x Goblin Warchief // (Would run 4x, do not know what to remove)
3x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Warren Weirding // (Or would be 2x Gempalm Incinerator + 3x Warren Weirding, probably depends on the meta)
2x Stingscourger // (I just love [Wort + Stingscourger]
2x Wort, Boggart Auntie // (1x Wort, Boggart Auntie might be enough, but what about someone countering or killing your 1st Wort? :P)
2x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Warren Instigator
1x Goblin Chieftain // (Is 1x enought? What factors should I consider?)
1x Goblin Sharpshooter

LANDS (22 Land cards)
4x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Arid Mesa
4x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port // (Maybe 2x would be enough, I'm worried that I will suffer from colorless mana a lot)
5x Mountain // (I was thinking about 4x Mountain + 1x Swamp instead, because of Wasteland)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheSleeper

Hi all. I've spent the last 2 days reading the last 50 pages of this thread. Phew!

Is the following a pretty standard FoulQ-type Mono-Red list? I never realised this deck was so tight! I know he had a tourney report where he posted a list, but seemed like a few cards were missing due to availability or something. Haven't seen a mono-red posted lately with the 23-land base so yeah - did I miss anything?

*list*

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I prefer RB in the current metagame. My oldest MonoR list was the same as yours except -1 Piledriver, -1 Chieftain, +1 Instigator, +1 Stingscourger. And no, I didn't put instigator in because of a combo presence, I put him in because I think he's awesome. And I switched over to 3 piledrivers awhile ago and have preferred it since.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Palmik

Btw, I updated my deck again after learning from few advices here (Thanks for them :))
I included some notes

*list*

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Your first problem is you are only running 3 warchief. I see plenty of things you could cut, namely sharpshooter or the second wort. Warchief definitely outclasses both and I don't think you are really running quite the same deck without 4. He gives the deck it's "sprinting" capabilities and allows us to mold and change our strategies instantly, unlike other legacy decks which boringly rely on gradual tempo gains like stifling fetches and dazing shit and so forth.

And IMO Port is not worth it in RB. I really enjoy nailing down my manabases to perfection. After a lot of testing, I think this is the best manabase for RB (22 lands):
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
3 Auntie's Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

I don't think 4 hovels are necessary, you usually have more than enough with 4 badlands and 4 hovels along with 4 fetches. I have found 3 hovels to be the best number, and it can still get wasted a decent amount of times to make this important.

Is it normal to remove some wastelands / ports when putting in instigator or other RR cards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoulQ

Your first problem is you are only running 3 warchief. I see plenty of things you could cut, namely sharpshooter or the second wort. Warchief definitely outclasses both and I don't think you are really running quite the same deck without 4. He gives the deck it's "sprinting" capabilities and allows us to mold and change our strategies instantly, unlike other legacy decks which boringly rely on gradual tempo gains like stifling fetches and dazing shit and so forth.

And IMO Port is not worth it in RB. I really enjoy nailing down my manabases to perfection. After a lot of testing, I think this is the best manabase for RB (22 lands):
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
3 Auntie's Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

I don't think 4 hovels are necessary, you usually have more than enough with 4 badlands and 4 hovels along with 4 fetches. I have found 3 hovels to be the best number, and it can still get wasted a decent amount of times to make this important.

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Hi, thanks for your lightningfast reply :)
I will probably cut sharpshooter then and give Auntie's Hovel a try :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoulQ

I prefer RB in the current metagame. My oldest MonoR list was the same as yours except -1 Piledriver, -1 Chieftain, +1 Instigator, +1 Stingscourger. And no, I didn't put instigator in because of a combo presence, I put him in because I think he's awesome. And I switched over to 3 piledrivers awhile ago and have preferred it since.





Your first problem is you are only running 3 warchief. I see plenty of things you could cut, namely sharpshooter or the second wort. Warchief definitely outclasses both and I don't think you are really running quite the same deck without 4. He gives the deck it's "sprinting" capabilities and allows us to mold and change our strategies instantly, unlike other legacy decks which boringly rely on gradual tempo gains like stifling fetches and dazing shit and so forth.

And IMO Port is not worth it in RB. I really enjoy nailing down my manabases to perfection. After a lot of testing, I think this is the best manabase for RB (22 lands):
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
3 Auntie's Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

I don't think 4 hovels are necessary, you usually have more than enough with 4 badlands and 4 hovels along with 4 fetches. I have found 3 hovels to be the best number, and it can still get wasted a decent amount of times to make this important.

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Interesting cutting port... I think I still like having one or two sitting around. Personally, i'd cut the hovels and put in more fetches and ports.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonBarber

Interesting cutting port... I think I still like having one or two sitting around. Personally, i'd cut the hovels and put in more fetches and ports.

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Eh, people were cutting port long before I did. I prefer an extremely reliable t2 instigator or t2 black source for weirding than rishadan ports in the current metagame. Most of the matchups where rishadan port is good are already good matchups, except for questionably combo. Landstill used to be an unfavorable matchup made much better by port, but it is no longer a DtW/B. In addition, control decks in general (random UGx piles, random BGW piles, etc) have become much less common. And port's ability to shut down black in matchups where people with black splashes play plague (the most common occurence of plague, in my opinion, over monoblack or primary black decks) is no longer really necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I love port. But my ports are hibernating for now.

And I can tell you that hovel is definitely worth testing, if you haven't yet. One thing I feel confident about is my manabase construction, at least for this deck, and I really like the one I posted.

Will this get any love? Mostly I'm confused, but it could be decent.

Tuktuk the Explorer 2R
Legendary Creature - Goblin
When Tuktuk the Explorer is put into a GY from play, put a colorless 5/5 artifact creature goblin totem token into play named Tuktuk the Returned
1/1

This isn't the exact templating, but you get the gist.

He has haste too. Not too bad, but the 3cc slot is getting superstuffed.

I could see it. It'd be a nice surprise blocker coming off of vial. Or even (heaven forbid) weirding yourself. Though a 3 CC 1/1 with no "come into play" effect, and very little to offer the game state when uncontested, seems kind of underwhelming. He'd be tricksy, but I can see the cool factor being dangerous on this card. I'll try some testing soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bakofried

Will this get any love? Mostly I'm confused, but it could be decent.

Tuktuk the Explorer 2R
Legendary Creature - Goblin
When Tuktuk the Explorer is put into a GY from play, put a colorless 5/5 artifact creature goblin totem token into play named Tuktuk the Returned
1/1

This isn't the exact templating, but you get the gist.

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Yes he is awesome. Side him out vs. combo and shit but this is like 5x better than War Marshal in the aggro matchups.

Run Frogtosser in RB and it frees up the 3cc spot.

Or in the lists running skirk prospector for the combo, he could be a good 5/5 for 3 mana, still counting as a goblin :wink:.

No. There's already too much going on in the 3cc slot. I wouldn't cut any of those for this, nor would I cut any of the lesser cc Goblins.