You meant Propaganda, right? Tell me you meant Propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
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You meant Propaganda, right? Tell me you meant Propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
Goblins is still good, its just the rest of the field has upped its game so it's not going to be as dominant as it once was. I know what you mean though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frid
Stopping those two cards is already your top priority, because you can't win the game if they come online.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
The drawback of Chill is that it doesn't help answer either Vial or Lackey (whereas BEB at least answers Lackey), but it is still a powerful tool that fits directly in line with your gameplan in the matchup.
One thing I'd like to do is test post board matches against goyf sligh. I'm not sure how bad the matchup is when blasts come in, or even how many people can be expected to play that deck. But if it is a concern, chill will definitely wreck them. Then we could think about testing chill vs goblins.
If you draw the right amount of creatures and removal in the early game you can just race goblins even if they go first turn vial, all you have to do is answer lackey and warchief so that siege gang doesn't come into play before you can handle it.
Especially post board when you have blasts brought in.
Again, I mention Propaganda. Have you ever wanted to play a one-sided Moat in the agro match-up? Here you go. If you can keep them off their mana, you're guaranteed to win (lest they draw a KGrip and the 3rd land, and said land isn't Stifle-able, because they run 8 fetchlands).Quote:
Originally Posted by raharu
@ Nitewolf9
I've tested ALOT against Goyf Sligh and I must say the MU isn't that bad as I thought it would be. The best thing u can do MB is to try and manascrew them.
Starting with an open sea for stifle is very good(they play quite some fetch).Combined with sinkhole/wasteland/daze the best way to go is to play very agressive on them. Try to save ur dazes for Goys/Pops(ouch). So the mainplan is to manascrew them,so daze gets alot of power. If however,that doesnt work I try to get fast goyfs/tstalker online. I only use snuff outs on Tarmogoyfs/Grim lavamancer. Never counter the burn spells,only the relevant stuff like Pop/goyfs.. Stifle is suprisingly good in this MU. It can take care of Rift Bolt/fetch/ the Mogg Fanatic sacc(goyf vs.goyf).
I would say the MU mainboard is around 54% TA, 46% Goyf Sligh.
After sideboard u should have the advantage. Diabolic Edicts instead of Snuff Outs, B-blasts come in and Thoughtseize out. 65% TA, 35% Goyf Sligh.
These are my testing results so far: MB:34-27, SB:39-21.
As for Propaganda, I wouldn't play it in the SB. Blasts/edicts are more then enough to stop goblins/sligh ,..
Perhaps I missed it earlier in the thread, but what exactly would you board in and out versus Goblins? Do you bring in the Grips? More precisely, what exactly do you board out, especially if it would be Grips and Blasts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgeoise
OF is right, you deserve to lose no matter what if you let those cards resolve and stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
Btw, Propaganda sucks against Goyf Sligh. I don't need to explain this one, really.
I would think that if you're going to side in a card against gobbos, you'd want a card that does something about lackey/vial as opposed to something that assumes you've already taken care of lackey/vial. You've all said that TA loses if they come online (I don't disagree), so stopping them should be the priority when boarding. I haven't tested chill, but the way you're describing its function, it's strictly "win more."Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
Goblins can certainly still win without Goblin Lackey or Vial. So in a lot of cases it isn't a "win more" type of card. I can see why it would be if you've already got other mass aggro-nerfing cards in the board (such as Plague or Propaganda). Not to say it wouldn't be harder for them to win without Lackey or Vial, but it still shouldn't be too hard against this deck unless you have well-timed Snuff Outs and Goyfs.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
Against goblins take out 4 sinkholes for the 3 blasts (or 4 if you run 4) and 1 reanimate. Stifle is incredibly good against them and with so much removal post board you don't have much trouble stopping the lackeys and warchiefs.
I haven't really found the goblins matchup to be much of a problem, really. LD is only one of your plans against that deck.
I recently built this deck and it is a blast to play! I have been having a little trouble versus my brothers aggro loam deck. I think the problem cards for me in that matchup are loam and mox diamond. It is really hard to keep daze good when he gets a first turn diamond and it simply makes the rest of the decks land destruction less effective.
What do you recommend sideboarding in for this matchup? He plays GBR loam with crushers/goyf/terravore/tombstalkers.
Also what is the best plan against decks that play artifact acceleration such as chrome mox or mox diamond?
P.S. How bad is Hidden Gibbons or Hidden Guerillas in board?
The best u can do vs. (Aggro) loam is to try and get a fast Tombstalker online.
You must be faster then them,cause when they get the loam-engine going,u wont win most of the time.
I sideboard like this: -4 Sinkhole,-1 Stifle ,+2 Reanimate, +3 Diabolic Edict vs. Loam.
As for aggro loam:-4 Sinkhole,-4 Stifle ,+2 Reanimate, +3 Diabolic Edict,+3 Blue Elemental Blast.(crusher,assault.).
After side u should have a decent chance of winning.Edict and reanimate!(owns vs loam) really helps. Mainboard u must try to get a fast threat and only counter the relevant stuff.
Hope this helps a bit.
I think this deck is not as good as everyone makes it out to be!
I'm a pretty good Magic Player (Throwin that on the table). I've played this deck in about 7 tournaments. Sure, this deck does good against all blue decks, it lacks the power to beat Mono-colored decks. In my tests playing it, The Deck struggles against Mono Black, Mono White, Goblins (easiest), Burn, Merfolk.
"Reasoning"
Stifle - Becomes worthless
Wastelands - Barely Useful
Sinkholes - Sure, but since they dont run fetches, this is the only way you
can slow them down.
8-12 Dead Cards, not to mention Snuff outs are worthless against other Black Creatures i. e. Tombstalker, Confidant.
It sounds ridiculous, but If they have a hand with 3 Plains, Samurai, Silver Knight, Serra Avenger, and Figure of Destiny, I don't see team america Winning. Equipments just kill you, not to mention you can't block shadow guys, and 1-2 Swords to Plowshares wont let you block. 4 Creatures vs Team America, Team America Loses. Also dates back to the earlier conversation, Hymn serves a better purpose than Sinkhole. Anyone wanna argue?! Just Kidding.
It does make a little sense, Team America would have to have very lucky match-ups, and very good draws (i. e. Smitty - Meandeck Open, Dec. 28th). Discussing 43 Lands is another topic, because the matchup is very hard to beat with Team America, because Wasteland vs. Wasteland. Factory vs Tarmogoyf, Maze vs. Sinkhole/Stifle, unless you can counter loam 2-3 times early or 5-6 times late game.
Who is 'everyone' and how good are they making the deck out to be?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod
Are you saying that the deck does well against the decks it was designed to beat, and struggles against some of the decks that it wasn't designed to beat?Quote:
I'm a pretty good Magic Player (Throwin that on the table). I've played this deck in about 7 tournaments. Sure, this deck does good against all blue decks, it lacks the power to beat Mono-colored decks.
Against 43 Lands, the strongest gameplan would be to resolve a Tombstalker and fly over 4 times. If they drop a Maze, you have Wasteland, Sinkhole, and Stifle to help force through damage.Quote:
Discussing 43 Lands is another topic, because the matchup is very hard to beat with Team America, because Wasteland vs. Wasteland. Factory vs Tarmogoyf, Maze vs. Sinkhole/Stifle, unless you can counter loam 2-3 times early or 5-6 times late game.
Sure is a meta deck.
In a field of Elves, Goblin, burn and white weenie i would propably play another deck.
In an earlier post in this forum, a few people had said it will be a popular deck at the Grand PrixQuote:
Originally Posted by T is for TOOL
Yes, that is exacly what I meantQuote:
Originally Posted by T is for TOOL
Well, the thing is that monocolored deck just aren't played much in more developed/competitive metagames. This deck is designed to do well against what the "general" metagame is at (So, stuff you might expect to see more at larger, higher-reward tournaments). So, if you're playing at a less developed metagame, then obviously this deck isn't the best to play. However, if you're going someplace with more development, then it's likely to do well.
What do you guys think about 3x [Sideboard] Pernicious Deed?
Against random weeniedecks in an not so developed meta.