[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I've been putting up numbers for the last 4 or so years. If anyone else besides me ever played the deck, maybe there would be more.

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I've played the deck in the past (although not nearly as much as you have as I switch between decks a lot) and I've never put up any results with it; although I'm sure that has everything to do with my poor combo piloting skills and nothing with the deck.:laugh:

Anyway what I wanted to ask: If the meta shifts as people are predicting at the moment (something I'm not entirely convinced of), i.e. more aggro and a rise of pure control (Landstill) and midrange (Rock) decks, is it still worth maindecking Empty the Warrens. Wouldn't that slot be better spend on Ill-Gotten Gains in such a meta?

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I've been putting up numbers for the last 4 or so years. If anyone else besides me ever played the deck, maybe there would be more.

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I also play TES. My list is a little old--I'm still playing 11 lands with mana monkeys, and I have two more rainbow lands instead of the U. Seas, because I don't have them--but I pulled second in a tournament last night with the list, beating Aggro Loam (maindeck chalice is a BITCH, though), Death and Taxes (ditto for Aura of Silence--Game three I fought through two canonists, but that second game aura of silence . . . ugh), Folk (why I still have Xantid swarm in my board--it's really good against them) and Dredge. Every match I played that evening went to three games (because I am a lousy, but improving, combo pilot) except for the final--folk with maindeck spell pierce and echoing truth.

But I wanted to discuss a situation with you guys, because, as I said, I'm a lousy pilot. This is game two against folk in the finals. He's metagamed to beat me, because we don't have any zoo or goblins to make him, you know, play cards that are bad against storm.

So, the situation. I’m at 7 life with four lands—all rainbow producers—on the table. I am facing lethal damage from two lords, a cursecatcher and a mutavault. I duressed him last turn, and I know his hand is daze and echoing truth. He forced my first turn Xantid swarm, so he has a force in his yard. He is at 18. In my hand is 2x Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, 2x burning wish and tendrils.

I couldn’t figure out a way out, even when he had no hard hate. I couldn’t IGG for more storm because he had force. I can’t burning wish for IT for ad nauseum because first I don’t have enough mana, (only 8 when I’d need 9) and second he’s hold curse catcher and daze, and third because I’m at seven. I couldn’t Empty the Warrens because he had echoing truth in his hand. I couldn’t double tendrils because I didn’t have enough mana (only eight, when I would have needed 10 to tendrils). The BEST I could come up with was play mana (storm three) BW (four) for Grapeshot (storm five, five damage to him) and then Tendrils (twelve more damage to him, although he could have countered one with the Cursecatcher) bringing him to one life .

Was there a way out? I doubt I could have taken the match, so it would only have been a moral victory . In addition to four force, daze and spell pierce, he also had four mindbreak trap boarded, because there isn’t enough zoo in our meta.

Okay, thirdly (sorry about the long post). I was thinking about a problem that was being discussed on the Storm Boards a few days ago. People wanted a sideboard solution that beat hatebears and Iona naming black in one, wishable card. The best card that was named was Eye of Nowhere, which I find . . . poor, because of the double blue cost. I was lamenting the fact that WOTC hadn’t printed unsummon at sorcery speed. It would be perfect! Then one of my friends mentioned the new card Oust (I missed the past two sets, for the most part). I looked it up. Oust reads:

Oust. W
Sorcery,
Put target creature into its owner's library second from the top. Its controller gains 3 life.

I’m not optimistic about this card, really. The bad part is how they gain life. But I thought it was worth at least a little discussion.

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Originally Posted by LostButSeeking

So, the situation. I’m at 7 life with four lands—all rainbow producers—on the table. I am facing lethal damage from two lords, a cursecatcher and a mutavault. I duressed him last turn, and I know his hand is daze and echoing truth. He forced my first turn Xantid swarm, so he has a force in his yard. He is at 18. In my hand is 2x Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, 2x burning wish and tendrils.

I couldn’t figure out a way out, even when he had no hard hate. I couldn’t IGG for more storm because he had force. I can’t burning wish for IT for ad nauseum because first I don’t have enough mana, (only 8 when I’d need 9) and second he’s hold curse catcher and daze, and third because I’m at seven. I couldn’t Empty the Warrens because he had echoing truth in his hand. I couldn’t double tendrils because I didn’t have enough mana (only eight, when I would have needed 10 to tendrils). The BEST I could come up with was play mana (storm three) BW (four) for Grapeshot (storm five, five damage to him) and then Tendrils (twelve more damage to him, although he could have countered one with the Cursecatcher) bringing him to one life .

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Well, yeah, still, you're gaining 12 life in the process, so you can have another turn. If you topdeck LED (or ritual, in case he dazed+cursecatchered) you still win with the wish you have in hand.

Or you could have gone for Diminishing Returns hoping for the best.

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Originally Posted by ZZZ

Anyway what I wanted to ask: If the meta shifts as people are predicting at the moment (something I'm not entirely convinced of), i.e. more aggro and a rise of pure control (Landstill) and midrange (Rock) decks, is it still worth maindecking Empty the Warrens. Wouldn't that slot be better spend on Ill-Gotten Gains in such a meta?

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Do you honestly believe Bant won't still be the best deck in the format? This is where Empty the Warrens shines. In fact, it shines versus anything with blue in it. Including Landstill.

Is anyone ever really happy to draw Ill-Gotten Gains? I played it for years and there were very few times I was excited to see it. I can't believe it took me so long to cut it.

I missed having it on several occasions at GP: Madrid, but I can't remember losing any games because of not having it. So MD Warrens is quite probably the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Do you honestly believe Bant won't still be the best deck in the format? This is where Empty the Warrens shines. In fact, it shines versus anything with blue in it. Including Landstill.

Is anyone ever really happy to draw Ill-Gotten Gains? I played it for years and there were very few times I was excited to see it. I can't believe it took me so long to cut it.

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I think you're right, BANT in all its variations will still be very popular but there's a good chance a lot of those decks will be maindecking even more sweepers (Firespout and EE) than before, making EtW worse.
On the other hand, with MT banned, an early EtW might get even more important against CounterTop?

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

I was just wondering if anyone would ever respond to one of my posts.
Of coarse i know the deck never was dependant on mt, I just find it odd that this is what it takes for someone to reply to my posts.

Edit: FT always took much more thought to play, and so did solidarity, zoo and agro in general are for ppl who dont want to put thought into the game. It takes a true player to play tight with a control deck for an entire tournament.

Edit2: I would like to see if anyone else besides bryanT cook can do well with this deck, he seems to be the only person putting up numbers consistently.

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LOL. I took this deck to my local tournament 7 times and made top 8 or top 4 split 5/7. However, my last lists ran 13 lands and 4 MT and then 15 lands w/ 4 MT, and I was just playing better combo decks IE: DD Hybrids and DDGO. The problem is this deck kind of sucks against Reanimator and is 50/50 in the CB matchup whereas DDGO just obliterates them.

@lostbutseeking: I would have Grapeshot his Lords for 5 (killing both) and Tendrils for 12, then next turn, depending on what u draw, BWish for DReturns and go for it next turn OR you can just BWish for IGG, assuming u draw LED and bring back Duress, DRit and Tendrils. I think the Grapeshot his dudes and Tendrils plan give you the best options since you have a BWish left over. You could also BW into Infernal and cast Infernal revealing Dark Ritual, play both and Tendrils leaving BW in you hand but ... its a bad play and it actually does not work if your opponent counters the first Dark Ritual ... which they probably would. But the best thing you have going for playing combo is that most people have not the slightest clue what these decks are capable of and often let mana spells resolve that they shouldn't because they are waiting to counter some key spell then you cast something they don't know how to react to like ... not Ad Nauseam.

Ironically if you had an LED that turn you would have won because IGG would have been the card to grab assuming he only had 1 Force in the yard. The Cursecatcher and Daze are able to make sure not enough copies would resolve since you just don't have enough mana.

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Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

I would have Grapeshot his Lords for 5 (killing both) and Tendrils for 12, then next turn, depending on what u draw, BWish for DReturns and go for it next turn OR you can just BWish for IGG, assuming u draw LED and bring back Duress, DRit and Tendrils. I think the Grapeshot his dudes and Tendrils plan give you the best options since you have a BWish left over.

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He can generate only 8 mana (-2 for wish) so a single daze or cursecatcher on a grapeshot copy leaves both lords alive.

Pyretic Ritual 1r
Instant Common
Add RRR to your mana pool.

Strictly worse than desperate ritual...when will they learn to drop the 1?

I just really hate that card. I wish it would've been some kind of boosted Manamorphose without the cantrip, that would've been good. But I hardly believe this card is ever going to be played anywhere...

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Pyretic Ritual 1r
Instant Common
Add RRR to your mana pool.

Strictly worse than desperate ritual...when will they learn to drop the 1?

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<sarcasm> Its not at risk of arcane hate spells! Yayyy!</sarcasm>

Even if they won't make it a straight up dark ritual, at least make it rite of flamish

I know it's sort of trendy to ask this, but does Personal Tutor replace Mystical Tutor here? It can't find Ad Nauseam or Dark Ritual, but it can get Burning Wish and its tutor targets (Rite of Flame is a sorcery!).

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Originally Posted by Anusien

I know it's sort of trendy to ask this, but does Personal Tutor replace Mystical Tutor here? It can't find Ad Nauseam or Dark Ritual, but it can get Burning Wish and its tutor targets (Rite of Flame is a sorcery!).

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My next level answer is no.

I see why you would bring it up. Since we play a sideboard of Sorcerys, Personal Tutor would grab them all if we sided them in. Although the most important sideboard card is Krosan Grip, we can't tutor for it in our toughest match-up.

It could be useful with Deamthmark, but here's a situation.

Gaddeck Teeg -> Go.
Can't EOT Tutor.
Untap. Personal, go.
They now know the answer to Teeg is coming and can throw everything at you.
Kill it.

It's like you've been Time Walked.

I see what you did there.

I mean, I see where Mystical Tutor could find sideboard bullets. And there's not really a card that replaces that function. I'm just thinking that if you spend a lot of time with Mystical Tutor finding Ad Nauseam and Dark Ritual, finding Infernal Tutor and Rite of Flame might not be that bad.

I'm sort of new to the deck; against Zoo are you boarding in Deathmark anyway? Or are you leaving it in the sideboard to Wish up?

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Originally Posted by Anusien

I see what you did there.

I mean, I see where Mystical Tutor could find sideboard bullets. And there's not really a card that replaces that function. I'm just thinking that if you spend a lot of time with Mystical Tutor finding Ad Nauseam and Dark Ritual, finding Infernal Tutor and Rite of Flame might not be that bad.

I'm sort of new to the deck; against Zoo are you boarding in Deathmark anyway? Or are you leaving it in the sideboard to Wish up?

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I'm opting to just play more business rather than more cantrips. I'm going to play 4 Infernal maindeck instead of 3, and move the 4th Chant effect (Silence) to the main.

My sideboard is a bit different I'm no longer playing Deathmark.

1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wipeaway
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Shattering Spree
3 Pyroblast

So I've been testing running the 4th IT maindeck, and I'm not loving it. There are so many games that I want to wish for it and win the game, and then can't. My vote, leave IT on the sb.

Why Silence instead of Chant #4?

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Originally Posted by Anusien

Why Silence instead of Chant #4?

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Extirpate and Cabal Therapy. Or well at least thats why I run a split. And redirect effects. Silence doesn't target.

Is that relevant compared to being able to use IT to tutor up extra Chant effects to beat counters?

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Originally Posted by Anusien

Is that relevant compared to being able to use IT to tutor up extra Chant effects to beat counters?

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I've had oppenents extirpate my duresses in B/U ant, so yeah, I do find it relevant. I also run a 2/2 split, so IT for an additional one is still possible.