So I tested Phyrexian Metamorph a little bit and it is really strong. Copying enemy creatures has been consistently useful since creatures like Tarmogoyf can be problematic since we don't have a hard check for them if they come out quick.
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So I tested Phyrexian Metamorph a little bit and it is really strong. Copying enemy creatures has been consistently useful since creatures like Tarmogoyf can be problematic since we don't have a hard check for them if they come out quick.
@ForlornEgoist
Let me say some comments here (please I just wanna help :tongue:)
I don't recommend run more than two LoSPs. They are terrible in multiples. Slogger also. IMO Slogger is slight better against swaraggro but LoSP is better facing Goyf decks. My list actually has 2 of then.
Furthermore I see your SB and I realize u wanted destroy with any weapon any creature in play (like fishes lol). Too many Firespouts (I don't like it too much I prefer Kinesis).
1) Lands> you should take out -1 LoSP, stay with CoTV and any Slogger. Maybe 1 or even 2. However here our amazing stuffs is the Moons.
2)NO-Bant> -4 Blood Moons??? Are you crazy?? IMO you should run Ratched here because that can eat Arbor and Nobles. Moon effects here is very good instead tough
3) Don't take out CoVT! Don't think that can just play with turn 1 break one cc spell. Against Merfolks u should play it paying for 4 to stop Standstills, Lords, Corahelms, Silvergils and Dazes! One card can do a lot here :laugh:
4) The same point I guess...
U said: " As I've begun to notice more and more, Ratchet Bomb is utter junk. Seriously, it takes 3 bloody turns to rack up the necessary counters to remove the cards I need it to (Lords, KotR/Terravore, Enchantress stuff, etc.) which is more than sufficient time for all these decks to play around it. "
Sorry I woun't say I agree with you. I know for instance an Anarchy is MUCH better than Bombs when opp is playing with any Enchantress deck. But I want to say: Bombs can detroy affinity decks, zombie tokens, Empty the Warrens Tokens and more.
Spinnal Villain is fine but very very specific.
Finally, if you want to destroy Reliquarys and even Progenitus don't forget Anarchy.
@ Masamune
Lands: Yeah, if I had thought of that more I might of done it a bit better but to be honest it was Lands and I was feeling very giddy/smug. Resolve 1 Moon effect and I essentially get a win so I obviously wasn't too concerned with SBing.
NO Bant: Yeah, I'm going to be completely honest in saying I had no idea what would be the best way to SB against this deck. I guess I fell into the newer DS player trap of auto-SBing out Moon effects if I know they run numerous basics and color-fixing creatures like Noble. In hindsight I can see that was definitely a mistake.
Merfolks: Yeah, you're right. I should have kept the CotV's in rather than 3sphere. My argument was how 3sphere disrupts counters and I was thinking more so of the fact that I don't always have the conveinance of getting a Chalice @2 but after you've said it I realized "Wow. Chalice @2 actually makes the games far more winnable. Disrupt 8 lords (4 of which can fly) as well as all their cantrips and even a counter!?!"
As for Ratchet albeit it can remove tokens and wreck affinity, but neither are prevalent in my meta. So I'm essentially looking at a board sweeper that takes several turns to destroy its intended targets which is ample time for my opponents to either punch through near-lethal damage or find some way to deal with Bomb.
@ Anarchy: Why, oh why, do I keep forgetting this card exists? Every time I play this deck I realize I need to get some Anarchys but then whenever I go to buy some cards I always forget to throw these stupid little .50$-$1 cards in the basket. --'
@ Kinesis: This has always been in my SB as a 4-of in place of where the 'Spouts usually go. I gues I just panicked when I saw all the Merfolk + GW Knights + Goblins so I figured a board sweeper would help out more. Funny thing is that if the 'Spouts I had drawn in both Merfolk games would have been 'Kinesis I would've had a slightly easier win in the first Merfolk game and I most likely would have won the 2nd Merfolk game as 'Kinesis is in fact an out to Sower. :P
@ SV: While I do plan to get a playset just because they're awesome I very much doubt I'd ever actually run them specifically because of how provincial they are. Also the fact that if I'm expecting a lot of Merfolk then DS probably isn't the deck to play. Unfortunately I've played 'naught but Enchantress for the past 2 months and I still need to get several duals for Rock to be finished so DS was really my only option.
Thanks for all the suggestions, Masamune. I think the biggest weakness I tend to have with this deck is knowing how to build a good meta SB as well as how to SB in/out. With Rock/Enchantress its incredibly easy as I know automatically what to do since I've goldfished/tested plenty of MU's with them to know whats effective but DS is a bit harder for me. I always appreciate tips/suggestions. ;)
Forlorn Egoist
So this isn't really something I expect to be useful, but I'm still gonna post it because I love the idea of the card. Namely Tormentor Exarch. The whole built-in removal/pump seems pretty cool to me. It's probably far too weak to be playable, but maybe as a sideboard card against creatures? Maybe?
Card taggin' Tormentor ExarchQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon_Whelp
Ah, thanks, gonna fix that in the original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
Flametongue Kavu is almost always going to be better. It's sad I know; I like the card too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon_Whelp
@ForlornEgoist
Glad u get it :cool:
I take 3nd over 104 people weeks ago and I'm going to play with it again next Sunday.
A little report by me:
1) Gobbos. Turn 1 song, LoSP. Opp vial. 6/6 turn 2. Hiting with it making opp play any goblin to block it. He scoop. Game 2: -8 moons, -4 trinis, -1 rider. +4 Bombs + 4 Kinesis +4 Revokers +1 Slogger. I remeber that match I just did a Jitte turn 1 and Slogger turn 2.
2) PROBant. Turn 1 Magus of The Moon. Too many fetches and duals. gg. Game 2: +4 Bombs +4 Revokers. -2 Jitte, -2 Riders. -4 Trinispheres (I don't remeber actually which cards I exchange, Trinis or other stuff). Moon again, counter. Slogger, resolves. 2 damage on a single Hierarch. He never did a Natural order. Just a Green Sun's Zenith searching a crap 3/4 lifelink. I eat my deck to 16 cards to kill the rhino. A Chalice @1 pissed him of :tongue:
3) Mono Black. Thoughtseize take Trinis. Mana screw. I lose. Game 2 camin' up my army again taking out all moons...... LoSP 6/6 and Riders with hell bent. A Dragon appear. No chance for him. Game 3. Jitte + Slogger made him cry :laugh: Confidant died. CoTV @1 here was amazing. No rituals, Duress, Seizes or Innocent Blood.
4) Gobbos. The only match I lost. Game 1: Turn 1 LoSP. Weird to sac. Turn 2 Riders, turn 3 Dragon. All hellbent active. Turn 4 14 damage with Goblin King and Vial in table. gg. Game 3: Slogger + Jitte. All stuffs here again. Kinesis make him cry and Rishadan makes me cry tapping my mountain every turn. He plays a goblin and let me untap. Song, song, 8 mana floating. Slogger, Jitte, -2 Goblin. I swin with Slogger. That game was mine. Opp topdeck a Badlands playing Weird. Too many goblins and Piledriver 7/2. I scoop.
5) SpiralTide: Trinisphere + Chalice here. Not difficult. No need to say nothing
6) Merfolks: Game 1: Chalice @1. Turn 2 Chalice @2. Turn 3 Slogger. gg. Moving out again moon stuffs............Game 2: Cursecather turn 1. Trinisphere get Dazed. Bomb resolves. LoSP next. Sower steal my horny guy. I didnt expected that. gg. Game 3: Bomb. Turn 2 Riders. ~~ turn 4 or 5 Slogger. I drew Kinesis making fishes visit the grave. I drew a Jitte. Nice and not difficult match. Sweet :smile:
7) I peek two cards saying: Mulligan. Bad behavior. DQ. 3nd that moment. If I did it the National vacancy would be mine plus mouse pad and 54 booster packs :cry:
@Dragon_Whelp
Yes, FTK is better :rolleyes:
I know, I know. But... FTK is so boring. I mean, this guy seems like he belongs in Silent Hill. This guy rapes Pyramid Head. Can't he pump an RPD or something? I mean, FTK can't do that, it would just end up killing it.
...No, wait, the 4 mana would be better spent on just giving it +4/+0...
Sigh...
Apparantly i came up with following list which seems REALLY solid to me, as i just had a solution in mind over matters like dumping hellbent, adding priests, keeping seething song in for more solid acceleration and having SOFI back. Its a 61 card deck but it seems perfect to me:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Priest of Urabrask
4 Seething Song
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB
2 Metamorph
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Anarchy
3 Knesis
4 Mental Misstep
Maybe you could consider removing a Song or a Revoker, but i think it really fits nice all together.
Besides SOFI being nice one could also consider cutting them for a 3rd jitte and a batterskull maybe.
Any toughts?
Well, 60 cards are always better than 61. I think I would kick a Moltensteel...
Besides that, Me & Gui are also trying on a non-Hellbent approach. List can be seen on page before. We think we found a new "secret sideboard tech" against Merfolk... =) Want a hint? It's from one of the crappiest Editions ever =P
@ Tormentor Exarch... For the love of Silent Hill. I wish I could play this card, too bad that this artwork is given to such a crappy card. =( FTK is superior nearly everytime.
And for Sword of Fire & Ice: I really love it. But SoB&M seems so good in DS. Afaik Ivanpei and Drew Levin in his Article were the first 2 who tested SoB&M, and Drew wrote the following about it:
--> "Go ahead and guess which creature this deck is going to lose to the most. It's not Cursecatcher. It's not Goblin Guide. It's Tarmogoyf. A counter-backed Tarmogoyf is cheap and fast enough to resolve before Dragon Stompy can reliably set up its mana disruption. Once it's in play, DS has no real options on how to get rid of it.
As a result, you have to race. If you can't race, you have to defend. Sword of Body and Mind does both admirably: you attack through their Tarmogoyf, create a blocker to which you can equip Sword so as to not get raced back, and start cutting down on the outs they have left in their deck.
Sword of Fire and Ice was the best choice before Scars of Mirrodin because it suppressed tribal decks. Since Scars, however, Dragon Stompy has the Sword it really wanted (and needed)." <--
So the question is, is the pro green more relevent than 2 dmg and drawing a card? [think about that only 3-4 creatures in our deck have evasion, we are not Fairy Stompy.]
EDIT: -> @ ThoSha: Mental Misstep Oo in the board against what??? We play COTV >.>
@ThoSha
I don't know... 4x MoltenSteel and 4x Revokers makes Moxen hard to imprint. And Mental Misstep isn't good IMO
Here's another idea, not THAT thought, just unbound ideas:
Under the "equip-a-bear" strategy, I'd try to make sure I have a shotgun for whichever bear I had on table, and play easy-to-cast bears. Since no bear has evasion, Ivanpei's statement is true, more than ever.
Which are the best 3cc/2cc creatures available, besides magus, urabrask and revoker?
To a clue on what I'm talking abou:
//Maindeck
// Mana (26)
10 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
// Lock (20)
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
//Kill (14)
4 Priest of Urabrask
3 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
4 Sword of Body and Mind
3 Umezawa's Jitte
These Shatterskull could easily be a 3cc guy, so that you follow the strategy:
T1 - lockpiece
T2 - bear
T3 - Equip bear -> hit hard
Urabrask makes this strategy a viable T2: bear attacking with jitte/swords under lockpiece. This is strong if nothing gets countered, but is still somewhat strong if they do get countered, because equipment can make underlings into threats.
Maybe shatterskull could be Jaya Ballard there instead, since she's a pseudo-lock?
But I'm sure someone tested something like that before?
Tarmogoyf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
Oh, you mean creatures that are playable in this deck.
Uh... Porcelain Legionnaire? Or is the life payment too harsh? I'm not sure, really.
EDIT: Or Spinal Villain. Heh.
Sulfur Elemental may have value, especially in the equipment-heavy builds that people are advocating. An eot Sulfur Elemental, which can't be countered by the way, when you have an equipment waiting for a carrier, can be a decent play. And even without equipment, he's a 3/2 beater that is uncounterable and that can trade with a Rhox War Monk, flashed in for combat tricks, etc.
I think 19 is a minimum to imprint chrome, so I'd say it has to be red and non-artifactQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon_Whelp
Oh yeah, forgot the Mox. Dang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
Hey guys how about try to test Flameblast Dragon in DS?
Seems really mana intensive. How easy is it for us to put out the Dragon and be able to win on the back of its blaze attack?
@Necro
Maybe i am stupid, but i dont get your hint for merfolk :D pn please :X
As for the swords.. i guess its dependant of meta and preference. I havent seen goyfs lately, but merfolks and affinity increased in numbers. Pro Blue is huge against Folk and Master of Etherium, so i came back to SOFI gladly. As for 61 cards you are right, but there is nothing i want to cut. :(
The biggest point of my list was the including of Seething song AND priest, which seems so damn broken on paper. Imagine 1st Turn Priest into Seething, Chalice1 & Trinisphere. Also same turn Sword -> equip or Batterskull seem good. Running Priest is not a reason to cut Songs at all. As for the Dragon, he is the biggest Kill Condition. Running only 3 pieces seems subpar to me. Maybe a split of 2 Covetous and 2 Moltensteels seems better with moxes, just brainstorming. ^^
I will definitly come back to Dragon Stompy soon and post some results.
Btw what is wrong with boarding Chalices out for Mental Missteps on the draw?
@Gui
I like your build too. 4 Swords and 3 Jitte seems strong in such a deck.
But wouldn't Moltensteel Dragon easily replace LoSP?
Edit: Nvm, its only playing 19 red sources for chrome mox :( just realized..