[Deck] Painter-Stone

I played this at GP DC too, but my performance may have been slightly hampered by excessive drinking of Yaeger Bombs with Team Serious Idiots (otherwise known as my friends). In any event I played pretty loose and dropped at 4-3. My losses were to Jund having the stone perfect cards against my turn 2 blood moon (basic forest in hand followed by double deathrite with multiple lands in the yard), with me having ~15 outs and not drawing one for 6 turns. Not that I am bitter. My other losses were to a supremely skillful UR delver player (who didn't reveal a lightning bolt to his delver because he knew i would mill it in response and that he would hit me for exactsies the following turn) and to Death and Taxes. He had a good draw and when they hit the right draw (including multiple revokers and mother of runes) it is hard to win.

Throughout the day i was missing the extra tutors and access to an additional Wurmcoil out of the board, because there were multiple games that i would have won if I ever had access to wurmcoil. My list was about standard but with 3 TA 3 intuition and no led. The LED I didn't miss too much, though in testing i hit on a couple turn 2s where I would have been able to win t3 if I had an LED but because I didn't i had to wait an additional turn. The Academy Ruins was good most of the times I saw it, and I think I would be ok with going down to 2 Grim monolith, or 1 Mox Opal for access to the LED.

Overall, I am getting a little less hyped on Painter. I think the deck is powerful for sure, but TNN give the tempo decks an out to Wurmcoil, and more and more Sneak and Show is making the environment pretty hostile. I think for the time being I am going to retire on painter (figures the week after I get the last 5 cards in japanese) and try out some Dark Rituals. I am happy to keep discussing stuff though if people want to try new strategies.

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Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Overall, I am getting a little less hyped on Painter. I think the deck is powerful for sure, but TNN give the tempo decks an out to Wurmcoil, and more and more Sneak and Show is making the environment pretty hostile. I think for the time being I am going to retire on painter (figures the week after I get the last 5 cards in japanese) and try out some Dark Rituals. I am happy to keep discussing stuff though if people want to try new strategies.

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This I don't get.

1) TNN decks... sure Wurmcoil can't block. But I would side these out here anyway trying to force the combo through. Bring in Bridges to deal with tempo/tnn decks if you need to.
2) Sneak Attack. This I feel is a favorable matchup. 3 E.Bridges outta the side shuts them down. And we have blue to play the defensive counter war until we drop a bridge (cast or off a resovled SnT).

I think you are looking at the deck and matchups wrong.

What I feel is a bad matchup is more like Esper Stone Blade (yes they do have TNN). Also decks punishing you with chalice can be an issue though we do have TA.

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Originally Posted by Ish

This I don't get.

1) TNN decks... sure Wurmcoil can't block. But I would side these out here anyway trying to force the combo through. Bring in Bridges to deal with tempo/tnn decks if you need to.
2) Sneak Attack. This I feel is a favorable matchup. 3 E.Bridges outta the side shuts them down. And we have blue to play the defensive counter war until we drop a bridge (cast or off a resovled SnT).

I think you are looking at the deck and matchups wrong.

What I feel is a bad matchup is more like Esper Stone Blade (yes they do have TNN). Also decks punishing you with chalice can be an issue though we do have TA.

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Thanks for the insult on my playskill, I have only been playing this deck for like 2 years straight. Siding out Wurmcoil vs the tempo decks is terrible because they have a fast enough clock and enough removal to make the combo untenable. The whole reason we added TA to the deck was to make that matchup better, and by better I mean 50%. The issue is with TNN there to make Wurmcoil not do anything (by which I mean not gain life late in the game) they can just attack with delver and burn us out. Bringing in bridges against these decks isn't good because it means we have to have no hand which makes defending the combo worse (and we don't have enough slots for it since we are bringing in spellskite and flusterstorm, and REB if they don't have red). In addition a lot of the tempo decks have ancient grudge or abrupt decay which makes bridge especially bad against them.

As for sneak attack, while bridge is good vs them and does buy a lot of time, they can still just win the game on turn 2, and they do play bounce spells. More importantly if they are smart they know the whole match is about beating ensnaring bridge, so they can play accordingly. I agree against an unprepared opponent especially in game 2 we have an advantage, but we are still basically conceding game 1 since it is almost impossible to win, and then hoping to win game 2 and 3, which if our opponents aren't stupid gives them a whole game to figure out what cards are important. Also, by playing 3 ensnaring bridges (which I did at the GP and didn't like) we are wasting a ton of SB slots on just this one MU, which makes the sideboard weaker overall.

Like I said, the format is becoming more and more aggressive to this deck, and I would rather play something that is better suited for the current meta, which in my mind is a faster combo deck that gets to capitalize on the fact that people are playing a slower combo deck primarily, and also that tempo decks are evolving to play slower cards.

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Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Thanks for the insult on my playskill, I have only been playing this deck for like 2 years straight. Siding out Wurmcoil vs the tempo decks is terrible because they have a fast enough clock and enough removal to make the combo untenable. The whole reason we added TA to the deck was to make that matchup better, and by better I mean 50%. The issue is with TNN there to make Wurmcoil not do anything (by which I mean not gain life late in the game) they can just attack with delver and burn us out. Bringing in bridges against these decks isn't good because it means we have to have no hand which makes defending the combo worse (and we don't have enough slots for it since we are bringing in spellskite and flusterstorm, and REB if they don't have red). In addition a lot of the tempo decks have ancient grudge or abrupt decay which makes bridge especially bad against them.

As for sneak attack, while bridge is good vs them and does buy a lot of time, they can still just win the game on turn 2, and they do play bounce spells. More importantly if they are smart they know the whole match is about beating ensnaring bridge, so they can play accordingly. I agree against an unprepared opponent especially in game 2 we have an advantage, but we are still basically conceding game 1 since it is almost impossible to win, and then hoping to win game 2 and 3, which if our opponents aren't stupid gives them a whole game to figure out what cards are important. Also, by playing 3 ensnaring bridges (which I did at the GP and didn't like) we are wasting a ton of SB slots on just this one MU, which makes the sideboard weaker overall.

Like I said, the format is becoming more and more aggressive to this deck, and I would rather play something that is better suited for the current meta, which in my mind is a faster combo deck that gets to capitalize on the fact that people are playing a slower combo deck primarily, and also that tempo decks are evolving to play slower cards.

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Well... I guess if it comes down to if anyone having a discussion with you is insulting you, and you already know better than I because of your experience and grand intelligence, then sir... I must concede to your wisdom.

Good luck with another deck.

I still believe UR painter to be a good meta call right now, and will continue to discuss here with others until I feel like its isn't a good deck option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ish

Well... I guess if it comes down to if anyone having a discussion with you is insulting you, and you already know better than I because of your experience and grand intelligence, then sir... I must concede to your wisdom.

Good luck with another deck.

I still believe UR painter to be a good meta call right now, and will continue to discuss here with others until I feel like its isn't a good deck option.

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Look dude, I am sorry I was a little salty in my post back to you, but I do feel like I have a fair amount of experience and didn't think your response to why I wasn't excited about the deck was fair. I explained my position though, do you disagree about the tempo decks thing? Honestly a lot of those games for me have been won because wurmcoil gives time and life while being hard to deal with, a shift back to swords and TNN in those decks make this plan less good, but doesn't make out main plan any better. If i have to side out the wurmcoil engines I feel like the MU becomes worse in general, back to pre-wurmcoil days which was below 50% in my testing.

I also have tested extensively against sneak and show, and while unprepared opponents can be easy to beat, the number of unprepared sneak and show players is going down. If they know how to play against you it isn't an easy matchup especially since we are effectively playing a game where they just have to win 1 game to our 2.

I am taking a moratorium on snark, I want to talk about why you think this analysis is wrong. If you don't want to do that its fine, but don't begrudge me one slightly salty response.

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Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Look dude, I am sorry I was a little salty in my post back to you, but I do feel like I have a fair amount of experience and didn't think your response to why I wasn't excited about the deck was fair. I explained my position though, do you disagree about the tempo decks thing? Honestly a lot of those games for me have been won because wurmcoil gives time and life while being hard to deal with, a shift back to swords and TNN in those decks make this plan less good, but doesn't make out main plan any better. If i have to side out the wurmcoil engines I feel like the MU becomes worse in general, back to pre-wurmcoil days which was below 50% in my testing.

I also have tested extensively against sneak and show, and while unprepared opponents can be easy to beat, the number of unprepared sneak and show players is going down. If they know how to play against you it isn't an easy matchup especially since we are effectively playing a game where they just have to win 1 game to our 2.

I am taking a moratorium on snark, I want to talk about why you think this analysis is wrong. If you don't want to do that its fine, but don't begrudge me one slightly salty response.

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Awesome! Now we're havin a discussion!

Wurmcoil and tempo: I can definetely see what you are saying here. Decks such as RUG/BUG can't answer a resovled/weldered in Wurmcoil Engine. I shall retest this scenario... thanks!



Sneak and Show:

I can't argue against your SnT testing experience, but can only reference and share mine. So here's my plan/experience notes.

My thoughts: I am still convinced Games 2 and 3 are so much in our favor. I also played SnT for about 2 years through many variants so I know the deck inside and out. Game 1 IS in their favor.

Against a slower SnT draw we can win via our :( 3 card combo game 1. Don't count on it though!

My Gameplan Game 2-3.
Board: 3 Bridge, 3 Flusterstorm, 2 GY Hate (Tormod's Crypt is mine)
Out: WCE, Maybe 1-2 Combo Pieces, Some excell such as LED/Mox Opal, 1-2 Tops (games are gonna be fast, or you've locked em)

Now I am looking for a hand with ALOT of counters, and if I'm lucky a bridge and/or intuition. I will fight their combo with counters to rip there hand apart. Basically sit and sculpt your hand.
In the deck game 2 for me: 4 FoW, 3 Reb, 3 Flusterstorm. That really slows them down.

If they resolve an SnT after a big counter war hopefully you have your bridge in hand. If you have an intuition, just play it in response and find your bridges before SnT resolves. Put it into play.

Now, the best way to ensure they are completely locked outta the game. Using transmute/intuition get more bridges in play/hand/graveyard. Find a welder and it's absolutely game over. You can just swap in bridges after bounce, or have 2-3 in play if they are on wipe away (not echoing truth). Now you just build your board to combo off.

vs Matches that were attacking with Eldrazi (and hence we need Ensnaring Bridge, actually any matchups where I bring in Bridge - adjusted for fair / unfair strategies. Spellskite for fair matchups, Flusterstorm for unfair.) I would board like this:
-3 Grim Monolith
-2 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Grindstone
-1 ??? (I honestly can't remember, it may have been Intuition)
+3 Ensnaring Bridge
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+1 Venser (form my LA list)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koby

vs Matches that were attacking with Eldrazi (and hence we need Ensnaring Bridge, actually any matchups where I bring in Bridge - adjusted for fair / unfair strategies. Spellskite for fair matchups, Flusterstorm for unfair.) I would board like this:
-3 Grim Monolith
-2 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Grindstone
-1 ??? (I honestly can't remember, it may have been Intuition)
+3 Ensnaring Bridge
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 REB
+1 Venser (form my LA list)

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Sounds pretty solid.

I have a 3rd flusterstorm over the venser in the SB (personal preference), and I bring in the crypts for the win (arguable that this matters, since we're not trying to combo so fast). I like keeping all my intutions as a response to SnT with Bridge if counters fail though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ish

Awesome! Now we're havin a discussion!

Wurmcoil and tempo: I can definetely see what you are saying here. Decks such as RUG/BUG can't answer a resovled/weldered in Wurmcoil Engine. I shall retest this scenario... thanks!



Sneak and Show:

I can't argue against your SnT testing experience, but can only reference and share mine. So here's my plan/experience notes.

My thoughts: I am still convinced Games 2 and 3 are so much in our favor. I also played SnT for about 2 years through many variants so I know the deck inside and out. Game 1 IS in their favor.

Against a slower SnT draw we can win via our :( 3 card combo game 1. Don't count on it though!

My Gameplan Game 2-3.
Board: 3 Bridge, 3 Flusterstorm, 2 GY Hate (Tormod's Crypt is mine)
Out: WCE, Maybe 1-2 Combo Pieces, Some excell such as LED/Mox Opal, 1-2 Tops (games are gonna be fast, or you've locked em)

Now I am looking for a hand with ALOT of counters, and if I'm lucky a bridge and/or intuition. I will fight their combo with counters to rip there hand apart. Basically sit and sculpt your hand.
In the deck game 2 for me: 4 FoW, 3 Reb, 3 Flusterstorm. That really slows them down.

If they resolve an SnT after a big counter war hopefully you have your bridge in hand. If you have an intuition, just play it in response and find your bridges before SnT resolves. Put it into play.

Now, the best way to ensure they are completely locked outta the game. Using transmute/intuition get more bridges in play/hand/graveyard. Find a welder and it's absolutely game over. You can just swap in bridges after bounce, or have 2-3 in play if they are on wipe away (not echoing truth). Now you just build your board to combo off.

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Our sideboarding plans are almost identical, one thing to be aware of is Wipe Away as it is becoming more common and it beats up on our sideboarding plan, and is therefore a reason to get 2 bridges in play specifically. Echoing truth is the other common bounce spell but that one is way easier to answer. Reb loses a little value because they can have them as well, so make sure that you name black (or white or green) with your painter unless you are winning that turn if you can blow up a permanent.

My experience is still not a net positive against lists with access to wipe away, but I wasn't playing as many copies of ensnaring bridge when I was doing that testing (2 in the board instead of 3, with the third spot being taken up by a venser). Have you considered moving one bridge from the board to the main? I haven't done it before but three games with a trump card seem better than 2.

I still am not sure about tempo, especially the new brand with StP, since it can actually answer our Wurmcoil along with TNN. I have been just bringing in the flusterstorms, and spellskites, but I still haven't been able to get there as consistently as I like. I want everyone to fall back in love with abrupt decay and deathrite shaman, those were much easier to beat. At one point (before the wrumcoils) I was splashing black for Baleful Strix nonsense with welder and to be able to hold off all their monsters to buy time, but still not really a satisfactory answer to TNN.

EDIT:
More revisions.

It might actually be correct to bring in Bridge in this match up if they have TNN. It stalls enough, but it makes me for sure want the led back in the list. I also would maybe consider platinum angel/empirion though the extra 1-2 mana over Wurmcoil might be tough.

I have yet to test against a TNN deck. But I would bring in bridges at my current thinking. I feel like right now we great them just like RUG/BUG/Jund. Esperblade is a whole nother' animal. I can't see how we win that match... But I was able to dodge it all this last weekend.

Bridges in main. I spent some time playing iPainter (mono R) with a bridge in the main. It did what it needed many times. However what UR offers is a faster combo clock in favor of board lock, so at the moment I wouldn't. However if the format becomes 50% sneak and show and 50% TNN tempo, then yes. But then I'd probably play Tezzeretor instead!

However... If you were to test bridge MB I wouldn't call it crazy. And would be interested in how it worked out.


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Alright so here is what I am thinking for my new sideboard, which is pretty close to my current SB:

3x Blood Moon
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Fluster Storm
3x Spellskite
1x Wurmcoil Engine - there were a couple times at the GP that drawing a wurmcoil was my out and I wanted the 3rd post board. This could also be one of the platinum guys, and might be worth testing that way.

My current maindeck is:
Business (15)
4x Painter
4x Grindstone
4x Welder
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wurmcoil Engine

Protection (7)
4x Force of Will
3x Red Elemental Blast

Tutors and Draw (12)
4x Brainstorm
2x SDT
3x Transmute Artifact
3x Intuition - I have been having some discussion with folks about altering numbers here to a 4-2 split instead of 3-3 or trying Izzet Charm in one of these slots. Let me know what you think of the charm Koby/Ish I know you guys have been running this.

Mana (26)
4x Tarn
2x Polluted Delta
3x Island
1x Mountain
2x Volcanic Island
3x Seat of the Synod
3x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
1x Academy Ruins
3x Grim Monolith (I could see cutting one of these for another actual land or shaving down to 25 total mana sources and adding in the izzet charm or 7th tutor)
2x Mox Opal
1x LED

This is where I want to be if we are more all in on the ensnaring bridge plan. Against fair decks with lots of removal I want access to more wurmcoils, or maybe some other big artifact monster, I know Koby was thinking about sundering titan, but I want something that is absolutely game winning. If i had access to Izzet Charm i might consider sphinx of the steel wind as another monster that gains life and is immune to some common removal (ancient grudge) and is good against most of the creatures in the format, as well as flying over true name. The other option along those lines is Inkwell leviathan, but at that point we are starting to get a bit ridiculous wrt CC.

I also am interested in hearing if anyone has had luck with greaves instead of skite. My sense is that skite is probably better, but giving welder haste is somewhat interesting to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Alright so here is what I am thinking for my new sideboard, which is pretty close to my current SB:

3x Blood Moon
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Fluster Storm
3x Spellskite
1x Wurmcoil Engine - there were a couple times at the GP that drawing a wurmcoil was my out and I wanted the 3rd post board. This could also be one of the platinum guys, and might be worth testing that way.

My current maindeck is:
Business (15)
4x Painter
4x Grindstone
4x Welder
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wurmcoil Engine

Protection (7)
4x Force of Will
3x Red Elemental Blast

Tutors and Draw (12)
4x Brainstorm
2x SDT
3x Transmute Artifact
3x Intuition - I have been having some discussion with folks about altering numbers here to a 4-2 split instead of 3-3 or trying Izzet Charm in one of these slots. Let me know what you think of the charm Koby/Ish I know you guys have been running this.

Mana (26)
4x Tarn
2x Polluted Delta
3x Island
1x Mountain
2x Volcanic Island
3x Seat of the Synod
3x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
1x Academy Ruins
3x Grim Monolith (I could see cutting one of these for another actual land or shaving down to 25 total mana sources and adding in the izzet charm or 7th tutor)
2x Mox Opal
1x LED

This is where I want to be if we are more all in on the ensnaring bridge plan. Against fair decks with lots of removal I want access to more wurmcoils, or maybe some other big artifact monster, I know Koby was thinking about sundering titan, but I want something that is absolutely game winning. If i had access to Izzet Charm i might consider sphinx of the steel wind as another monster that gains life and is immune to some common removal (ancient grudge) and is good against most of the creatures in the format, as well as flying over true name. The other option along those lines is Inkwell leviathan, but at that point we are starting to get a bit ridiculous wrt CC.

I also am interested in hearing if anyone has had luck with greaves instead of skite. My sense is that skite is probably better, but giving welder haste is somewhat interesting to me.

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You are just a few cards off my 75. I'll post a list and discuss further when I get a chance.


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Bump

Per my last response... finally I'll talk my list in comparison to Merfolkotpt

Current list I'm playing
0x Blood Moon (-3)
4x Ensnaring Bridge (+1)
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Fluster Storm
3x Spellskite
0x Wurmcoil Engine (-1)
1x Pithing Needle (+1)
1x Thorn of Amythist (+1)
1x Ratchet Bomb (+1)

My current maindeck is:
Business (15)
4x Painter
4x Grindstone
4x Welder
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wurmcoil Engine

Protection (7)
4x Force of Will
3x Red Elemental Blast

Tutors and Draw (12)
4x Brainstorm
2x SDT
4x Transmute Artifact (+1)
3x Intuition
1x Izzet Charm (+1)

Lands / Mana (24)
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Blue Fetch
3x Island
1x Mountain
2x Volcanic Island
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
1x Academy Ruins
2x Great Furnace

2x Grim Monolith
1x Mox Opal (-1)
1x LED


The MD is pretty similiar so there is really not a lot to discuss about the differences. Ive been playing with a few less mana producers for more business spells, but thats really it.

My thoughts

Academy Ruin: Meh... hasn't done anything great for me yet. Might just be better on paper (we already have 4 welder). Prob cutting for the third ancient tomb (as I had originally)

Transmute/Intuition: I am had set on 4/3 split. Transmute artifact can also be played as a sorcery speed entomb for 2 blue! With welder in play thats just NUTS! Remember you dont HAVE to pay the difference.

Izzet Charm: Has been nuts at times. Welder turn 1 with WCE in hand... izzet turn 2... instant speed WCE to block your... WHA?!?!?! oh snap! It has countered a thing here and there, killed a problem creatures (DRS or somthin) but just Meh in those modes.

Side Board:
No Bloodmoons: WHAT?!?!?! Seems crazy I know. Maybe it is. But in playing them for a while they were only good turn 2 at the latest. Past that there were already threats or I was just fo far behind. For the decks I bring it in against the Bridges are just as good or better. And against Sneak Attack bridge is the NUTS!

Ratchet Bomb: Awesome!! I bring it in against aggro, dredge or the real problem: Chalice of the void. Yes we can get around CotV with transmute, but I like the option of removing it for cantrips and blast as well.

Pithing Needle: Filler Spot. No real comment here

I played a pretty similar list at GP Vienna side events:
26 ppl on Saturday, 4-1, 2nd due to good breakers,
65 ppl on Sunday, 5-2, 9th - screwed up in R5 and therefore missed top8

I completely agree on the 4/3 split on TA and Intuition. Without that many tutors we loose so much speed, and I believe that G1 is mostly about that.
I do like your Pithing Needle in the board - was it useful for you? It sound good against Jitte and Sneak Attack at least...
I might also try your Ratchet Bomb, although it sounds a bit slow as you most likely spend a turn TAing for it if you want to blow it for more than 0.
Please cut a Great Furnace in your list for a Seat of the Synod, just please ;)

Blood Moon was actually the most boarded in card that weekend and it won me lots of games on its own. I disagree that it's only good on T2. If you can catch your opponent off guard when he's tapped out, it still does all the work. We don't have a problem racing a Goyf or whatever if our opponents can't play spells anymore. It also turns off annoying utility lands, which can be an issue because we don't play Wasteland.

I also won zero games due to Wurmcoil, so I'm very happy with only 1 maindeck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TkDodo

I also won zero games due to Wurmcoil, so I'm very happy with only 1 maindeck.

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I agree and can corroborate this. It's the weakest card in the deck, and does not help the synergies for the combo. It's an orthogonal Plan B, and mighty weak at that.

Same opinion: wurmcoil is not a good plan B because it suffers from the same hate of painter/welder. Also, with true-name Nemesis around it also got weaker.

The deck needs another b-plan, if any: would jace be an option here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

Same opinion: wurmcoil is not a good plan B because it suffers from the same hate of painter/welder. Also, with true-name Nemesis around it also got weaker.

The deck needs another b-plan, if any: would jace be an option here?

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A plan B is definitely necessary. Wurmcoil is still good against decks that can't handle it (RUG Delver, BUG, Jund). It's also a surprise angle of attack most people just do not see coming. Only one of these decks plays TNN, so we loose some equite against BUG. Against the others, WCE is still our best option at stabilizing the board. It's just so weak against StoP. The fact that it can be tutored up with TA and Grim Monolith makes it easily accessible.

I'm all ears for another alternative wincon. I don't think Jace is an option though. We don't remove creatures (because we usually don't care), so he would die a lot in combat. We also rarely want to block. He costs UU which can be tough to get (although TA costs UU as well). You can't tutor him up and I don't think you want to clutter the maindeck with 3+ copies.

Batterskull could be an option. It costs one less than WCE (0 to pay if you TA your GM) and is more resilient to StoP while also stabilizing the board pretty well. It does not combo so well with Welder, but if I have Welder out I go for the combo mostly anyway.

Apart from that, maybe Mindslaver? Very mana intensive though and does nothing the turn you tutor it up.

I hope they will print something soon :/

On another note, how do you guys plan on beating UWR Delver? With Owen wining the last Legacy GP, I think it might become pretty popular, and it sounds like a nightmare: Bolt, StoP, Mana Denial, Counters, Jitte and TNN !

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On another note, how do you guys plan on beating UWR Delver? With Owen wining the last Legacy GP, I think it might become pretty popular, and it sounds like a nightmare: Bolt, StoP, Mana Denial, Counters, Jitte and TNN !

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Play a different deck :(

But seriously. The rise of tempo decks, which at inherently good against combo is becoming a problem. UWR delver is nearly unwinnable.

Im a little sad over this right now... Not sure what the real answer is.




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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ish

Play a different deck :(

But seriously. The rise of tempo decks, which at inherently good against combo is becoming a problem. UWR delver is nearly unwinnable.

Im a little sad over this right now... Not sure what the real answer is.




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This is probably a little too cute, but how about a SB with the ability to transform into UR Delver?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imperial

this is probably a little too cute, but how about a SB with the ability to transform into UR Delver?

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Oh lol! That's awesome, they would never see it coming!


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