Printable View
For the Jace problem something that actually can work is Pithing Needle. You side out Deeds anyway, so going
+ 3 Pithing Needle
- 3 Pernicious Deed
is a very good plan. They rarely have Disenchant effects anymore and it targets Equipments as well as problem lands like Karakas or Riptide Lab that can potentially be excruciatingly hard to deal with otherwise.
I see at least one way to capitalize on that counter... Veteran Explorer. Plus the 1U/B mana cost is easier than BB in sign's case, or 1B in whisper's case.
Yeah the -1/-1 is good on wickerbough elder too.
Scarscale is cute, I think that if you're running it, you should be running Diabolic Intent instead. Why draw two random cards when you can instead draw the exact card you want.
@Gheizen
Common missconception: Adding a -1/-1 counter to a permanent doesn't remove a +1/+1 counter. Just like adding a +1/+1 counter on a creature with a -1/-1 Persist counter, it doesn't make it Persist again.
Ummmm if there is one -1/-1 counter and one +1/+1 counter on a permanent they are both removed as a state-based action. Pretty confident on that ruling.
I wouldn't run scarscale ritual. I would much prefer diabolic intent, as getting whatever card you want is quite powerful see: demonic tutor. Especially once cage comes out, as white builds will want to answer that card and for diabolic intent you just tutor up whatever answer you have in your deck.
Yeah you're right. I just read the ruling on +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters and how the state-based effect works... it's one messed up rule lol
Uuh it's a sorcery... way worse than i thought. And i guess Diabolic intent would actually be just better in that case, sacrifice Explorer, tutor card you need. This deck looks amazing and play amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
I'm not going to do a full report, but rather put down more of my thoughts on the current decklist (back a page...or maybe two).
My local event that was scheduled to fire today was canceled due to snow, so those of us who were interested did a small 9-man legacy event....four rounds with a cut to t4. I beat a finalist r1...thopter/cawblade, lost narrowly to imperial painter r2, beat UWR control r3, and then lost very narrowly to Deadguy in r4, for a 2-2 record.
Deadguy is a stupidly obnoxious matchup, because both decks are attrition-based. As a result, there's a -ton- more maneuvering involved, and every little tiny thing matters. It's a royal headache to play, and a competent Deadguy player can actually out-attrition us. I skunked him pretty good g1, then died g2 by a difference of 1 mana. G3 my deck decided not to show up, and missed too many land drops early on to influence things. Granted, I kept a shaky 6 which had 3s and 4s, alongside a Bayou and a GSZ -> Arbor. I didn't find the missing lands in time....but I defend the hand, because if I had mulled 5, I wouldn't have had enough business to do anything, especially since he had an exceptionally strong 7. My hand had the business, but it was short the land. I think it was a worthwhile risk.
Speaking of business, I haven't missed Hymn. Granted, I didn't play against storm combo, where the card really shines. However, having actual maindeck removal was pretty boss; especially Pulse, which I hadn't been running previously -- oops. Swords was a little more eh, although it shined against dudes equipped with Sword of F&F. Every time I drew a Pulse of a Swords, I'd think to myself that this could have been a Hymn instead...and was always much, much happier it was removal.
Phyrexian Arena was absolutely amazing. I didn't Rector for it, although I'd imagine that the situation will arise where I'll want to at some point. But whenever I naturally drew into it, I won that game, usually with a full grip at the end of it. Definitely a strong consideration, and I find myself wanting a 2nd maindeck.
Thrun was, again, meh. I didn't board him in once, largely due to the prevalence of sacrifice-based removal and Swords of protection from Thrun. I considered boarding him in vs Thopter/Cawblade, but I felt that he would be weak since almost all of my opponent's creatures flew.
Tribute to Hunger was also rather meh, although the matchups that I had weren't exactly ones where the card would shine. I'll probably keep it in for another event or two before changing it, since the card has promise.
Xantid Swarm was interesting. I boarded it in against both blue decks, and I only found it vs UWR...I Zenithed for 1 midgame, and he racked his brain for a while trying to figure out what was going on. He eventually said eff it and let it resolve, at which point I started locking out his counterspells. Good stuff. Whether it's worth the sideboard slot or not, I don't really know -- but again, it's something definitely worth trying out. I'm planning on evaluating it for another few events before reaching a final decision.
Faith's Fetters was stupid good all day. It shut down walkers, creatures, and swords. Very good stuff.
Everything Caleb has said about Skeletal Scrying is true. It's kind of a bitch to find, but it's definitely a powerhouse once you find it. Let alone recurring it with Witness -- woof.
I did miss Top, but I wonder how much of this would be fixed by adding a 2nd Phyrexian Arena, alongside maybe a singleton Top. That might be a terrible idea, but it's something I'll at least look into before dismissing it as such.
That's pretty much what I've got at this point. If I think of anything else, I'll throw it up.
I will be playing a GBw list tomorow at a local event and I've been wanting to try out Mystic Enforcer instead of Abyssal Persecutor. Enforcer can be fetched via GSZ and doesn't have to be sacrificed when he's won you the game. He may not be as fast as Percy to block Delvers and Cliques but he does trade that Trample for a steady Pro Black, which is very nice against batterskull.
Long time follower of this thread, first time poster. Mystic Enforcer seems like exactly what this deck needs. I have been using a list similar to calebs and have been trying and trying to find an answer to UW control. I was thinking of settling with abyssal perc too to block fliers and and least force him to hold off on swinging with bskull till he gets mana (or a dude to equip it on). But man, mystic enforcer seems perfect, problack, flying, 6/6 AND green, so a one of is enough.
Also, there doesn't seem to be too much (although some) discussion on birthing pod variants. Pod is a very powerful engine and seems perfect in the GBw explorer decks. Has anyone give much more thought to running a pod list, or had any more success with one?
Birthing Pod is a pure value engine/attrition gameplay card with some pretty strict deckbuilding requirements. It makes every card in your deck stronger given an infinite amount of turns. However, Legacy is not particularly a format that lets you mope around that long. Matchups vs. unfair decks get worse, as do tempo matchups and anything playing a heap of burn.
Generally speaking, Veteran Explorer control decks (even without Pod) will have a lategame that is superior to almost anything else in the format (Titans and Recurring Nightmare), and committing to Pod isn't necessary to formulate a viable control deck plan against almost anything in current metagame that plays fair.
Regarding fighting U/W - board in Nihil Spellbombs, pop them for cantrip+value vs. Snapcasters when you have a good EOT opportunity to do so and when their yard is getting some good stuff. Play enough Tops and/or cards like Skeletal Scrying or Phyrexian Arena (I think the latter card is real good right now) to grind out seeing more/better cards than the U/W deck does. Your games will take fooorreeevver (no joke) but end pretty decisively. Also please play Pulse do you don't lose to Jace. They don't have much to counter a pulse on Jace if played early, and late game you can almost put them in terrible spots with Grave Titan or Deranged Hermit and just grind the Jace out (this deck is almost unique in its capacity to just grind down an active Jace).
Second RE playing Pulse. I didn't run them for a long time thinking that Deed was enough, and then gave in and tried them out. It's like night and day. Although, I'm actually probably going to start doing 2 Pulse, 1 Vindicate so that the surgical-happy twats that are running around all over the place don't inadvertently shaft me.
I played in another small legacy event yesterday, beating Metalworker, Pox, and Enchantress; losing to Canadian Thresh and then finally UWR control in the top 4. Thresh wasn't even really close, although I will note that my deck didn't really want to do anything. I think I cast somewhere around 5 spells in two games...and might have resolved two of them. UWR was much, much closer. I destroyed the hell out of him g1, then he had double Delver into Elspeth with multiple counter backup g2, and then my deck decided not to play g3. Metalworker was annoying to beat, but very possible. The trick is to shut down their mana accel early on as best you can, while building your own board presence. He thought that I was going to be a bye for him, but events proved otherwise. Deed is a -bitch- for that deck to recover from. Enchantress is a joke with Pulses. Karmic Justice is still a pain in the ass, but that's literally their only answer, and Chains does a number on them. Pox...I don't think I even need to say anything about.
I moved the Swords to sb for this event, putting in a 2nd Phyrexian Arena and a 3rd Maelstrom Pulse. Even after bumping it to a 2-of, I only saw the Arenas once, which was irritating...but I won that game very handily. I'm greatly liking Arena so far. My sb was a cluster for the event, since I wasn't able to borrow a few things I wanted to try out (specifically Xantid Swarm), so I had to change it around. I'm definitely not happy with the sb at this point...that's a work in progress. I'm thinking that I'm going to try trimming Yosei soon and see how it goes -- he'll either become a Sorin, or else a spot as I continue to try to keep the 2 Swords to Plowshares maindeck. While Yosei can definitely get me out of a lot of tight spots that nothing else can, Sun Titan and Kokusho do a better job most of the time.
@Qweerios: definitely let us know how Enforcer goes. I've had my eye on him a few times, but I've never been able to try him out yet.
RE: Birthing Pod. I don't think that the Pod versions are that great right now. There's a fair amount of artifact hate in everyones' sideboards due to stoneforge.dec, and Pod seems like a rather unnecessary backup engine -- GSZ is already plenty good enough. I could see Pod as maybe a 1-of, but I wouldn't do more than that. And at that point, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Thought about Enforcer too, but in my list between flashing back Therapy, Stronghold, and Ooze, I generally hover right around threshold range. Also as far as 4-drops go, I think I prefer Thrun, esp. against UW. He blocks Batterskull all day like a boss, and won't get Jace bounced, O-ringed, or most importantly, sent plowing.
First place at a local event with the following list:
Creatures (14)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Eternal Witness
3 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Deranged Hermit
Instant/Sorcery (20)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
Artifact/Enchantment (4)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
Lands (22)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Compost
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Stony Silence
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Damnation
1 Consuming Vapors
Round 1: Bant Aggro 2-0
G1: I Therapy out 2 StP and a Goyf, then Witness + StP cleans him up
In: 1 Vapors
Out: 1 Finks
G2: Therapy + Hymn + Deed, then it degenerates very fast
Round 2: Punishing Maverick 2-0
G1: Witness + Deeds (blew about 3)
In: 2 Damnation, 1 Vapors
Out: 1 Finks, 2 Hymn
G2: Removal + Witness + Volrath gets there
Round 3: Reanimator 2-0
G1: Hymn on Entomb and Animate Dead, then my opponent T2 Iona naming Black (I played Red instead of White last week and he beat me that way). I StP Iona and cast an Ooze FTW.
In: 3 Extractions, 2 Tutors, 1 Crypt, 1 Spellbomb, 1 Vapors, 2 Damnation
Out: 4 Hymn, 2 Vindicate, 1 Finks, 1 Hermit, 2 Deed
G2: God hand - I draw Tower, Fetch, Explorer, Extraction, Tormod, Ooze, and GSZ.. then I drew into Bayou and Witness. My opponent spell Pierces the Crypt, Needles the Ooze but cant fight throught the disruption as I fetch Qasali and draw into Tutor -> Spellbomb.
Round 4: Esperblade 2-1
G1: I lead and have an answer to everything my opponent plays but he finally lands a Jace and things get really grim. I am in topdeck mode with a Top at 9 life, and my opponent holding 3 cards in hand and has a SFM, a Snap, a SoFaF, and a Bob in play. I top a Deed and blow everything up except jace. Then I find a GSZ and get a Hermit Druid past a wall of Snaps + SFM + StP to finally sac Hermit to Tower, and repeat with Witness.
In: 1 Vapors
Out: 1 Finks (I wish I had a Thrun there)
G2: A T2 Bob goes unanswered and it piles up from there (I drew into 3 Explorers).
G3: Very weird game... I therapy Jace out, we exchange Hymns and we are quickly in topdeck mode with 2 lands in play, the only exception is that I have a Top in play. I top 2 Vindicates in a row getting rid of his blue and white lands. I Witness to Vindicate more lands while I find a Percy to beat with. Before my opponent can find colored mana I have him to 0 life then I Therapy Percy FTW.
Good job man. I wish I could say I put up results that nice this weekend, but I went 1-2-bye in combo.meta. I really thought it might be a good proving ground for my latest sideboard, but I never saw a single one of the 10 cards I boarded in against AnT. That's just the way they shuffle up sometimes though.
Anyone tried carpet of flowers in the sideboard? Seems like it should have some applications, especially in a list with a higher curve. But maybe it's not quite what we need vs blue decks?
What we need against blue decks is a non-creature win con. I am currently shifting away from Percy because I only ever abuse their low casting cost in a defensive fashion. So far, Garruk Relentless has been doing a great job at punching through Jace along with Hermit. I managed to steal games from Bant decks where they had brainstormed 5+ cards from Jace. Perhaps the new Sorin deserves some attention as well.
So, Tao, it seems you're up to something new, care to tell us about the direction you've taken the deck?
It seems like absolutely crushes Maverick, and should do well against U.decks, but it looks pretty soft to Combo.
What are peoples thoughts about Bloodgift demon? Maybe in place of percy/grave titan as a black endgame wincon. He has roughly the same pros/cons percy does and then has a build in phyrexian arena for one more mana.