[Deck] UWR Delver

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Originally Posted by Jitse

I do think it's actually a very good matchup as long as you see yourself as the control deck and not as the tempo deck you usually are. start the game with cantripping and leaving fetches untapped instead of cracking them, while playing some Bolts and STPs on there dudes. Play around pierce and daze as much as you can, and hold back your TNN's on blocking purpose. Your TNN's are def not to play them on turn 3 and smash with them your TNN's are here to play them on turn 6 and make your opponent just unable to attack on the ground 1 TNN basically brickwalls a tarmogoyf and a nimble mongoose. This makes the game go long which makes your equipments win the game. You also have the land advantage since you play 2 more. Also remember when you have an hand with for example a wasteland a tundra and a volcanic and you don't want to cast a Turn 1 cantrip, it's very reasonable to play wasteland out first without wasting your opponent just to prevent your opponent from wasting you (if he would waste your wasteland you could waste another land in response and that's no good for your opponent). Another intresting situation is you having a bolt and daze in hand, tundra and volcanic untapped and your opponent wastes you, you can bolt his dude and daze your bolt bouncing the land your opponent wastes (probably tundra) and paying for the daze. After board the matchup also gets a lot better I would sb like this:

- 4 FOW
- 4 spell pierce (on the draw)
- 4 daze (on the play)

+ 2 red elemnental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 2 grim lavamancer
+ 2 rest in peace
+ 1 TNN

daze is more powerful as pierce but it's really hard to play around your opponent dazes when your playing daze yourself.
After board it's so nice how:
2 grim, 1 jitte, 3 red/pyroblast and 4 bolt deal with delver
3 TNN, 2 RIP and 1 Batterskull deal with mongoose
3 TNN, 2 RIP and 4 STP deal with tarmogoyf

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Thanks for your insight, it sounds very reasonable. I would just like to know why you want Grim in that matchup? It only kills Delver, and we have Bolt as well as REB to kill him.

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Originally Posted by TkDodo

Thanks for your insight, it sounds very reasonable. I would just like to know why you want Grim in that matchup? It only kills Delver, and we have Bolt as well as REB to kill him.

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Killing delver's is quite important, grim puts an clock on the opponent as well. A tarmogoyf is in this matchup most of the time a 4/5 (creature, sorcery, instant, land) Which means that grim makes a bolt kill a goyf which is more important then 1 might think. If a tarmo is a 5/6 it means that you have an equipment in your graveyard, you only play 2 which means that the grim can always exile them and make the goyf 4/5 again and the grim+ bolt lethal. It's very possible that they board in clique which makes grim also a better choice (I honestly don't know if this is correct from there side but I would expect playing more dudes is important).

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Originally Posted by Jitse

I do think it's actually a very good matchup as long as you see yourself as the control deck and not as the tempo deck you usually are. start the game with cantripping and leaving fetches untapped instead of cracking them, while playing some Bolts and STPs on there dudes. Play around pierce and daze as much as you can, and hold back your TNN's on blocking purpose. Your TNN's are def not to play them on turn 3 and smash with them your TNN's are here to play them on turn 6 and make your opponent just unable to attack on the ground 1 TNN basically brickwalls a tarmogoyf and a nimble mongoose. This makes the game go long which makes your equipments win the game. You also have the land advantage since you play 2 more. Also remember when you have an hand with for example a wasteland a tundra and a volcanic and you don't want to cast a Turn 1 cantrip, it's very reasonable to play wasteland out first without wasting your opponent just to prevent your opponent from wasting you (if he would waste your wasteland you could waste another land in response and that's no good for your opponent). Another intresting situation is you having a bolt and daze in hand, tundra and volcanic untapped and your opponent wastes you, you can bolt his dude and daze your bolt bouncing the land your opponent wastes (probably tundra) and paying for the daze. After board the matchup also gets a lot better I would sb like this:

- 4 FOW
- 4 spell pierce (on the draw)
- 4 daze (on the play)

+ 2 red elemnental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 2 grim lavamancer
+ 2 rest in peace
+ 1 TNN

daze is more powerful as pierce but it's really hard to play around your opponent dazes when your playing daze yourself.
After board it's so nice how:
2 grim, 1 jitte, 3 red/pyroblast and 4 bolt deal with delver
3 TNN, 2 RIP and 1 Batterskull deal with mongoose
3 TNN, 2 RIP and 4 STP deal with tarmogoyf

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Boarding out 4 Daze on the play?? And leave them in on the draw? Are you sure? I mean if I'm 1 turn behind and daze it puts me back 2 turns?

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Originally Posted by Manipulato

Boarding out 4 Daze on the play?? And leave them in on the draw? Are you sure? I mean if I'm 1 turn behind and daze it puts me back 2 turns?

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Yeah are you sure? I board like this, which seems like the other way around:

RUG Delver
+2 Rest in Peace +1 True-Name Nemesis +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Swords to Plowshares +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-4 Force of Will -4 Daze otd -4 Spell Pierce otp

Here is my list:

Maindeck
2# Grim Lavamancer
2# True-Name Nemesis
4# Stoneforge Mystic
4# Delver of Secrets

4# Spell Pierce
4# Force of Will
3# Swords to Plowshares
4# Brainstorm
4# Daze
4# Lightning Bolt
3# Ponder
1# Batterskull
1# Umezawa's Jitte

4# Wasteland
3# Flooded Strand
3# Scalding Tarn
3# Arid Mesa
4# Tundra
3# Volcanic Island

Sideboard
1# True-Name Nemesis
3# Meddling Mage
2# Rest in Peace
1# Grafdigger’s Cage
1# Pithing Needle
1# Engineered Explosives
1# Sword of Fire and Ice
1# Swords to Plowshares
2# Red Elemental Blast
2# Wear // Tear

I rly love Grim Lavamancer and won a lot with it, but here in the Netherlands you can find a lot of combo too. I have to play 4 Pierce or else I give away too much game 1's. But when playing Lavamancer you can cut 1 Plow without having trouble vs creature decks, and 3 Ponder is still good. I almost went back to 19 land but rather play safe with 20. Here are some other sb strategies:

Sneaky Show
+3 Meddling Mage +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +2 Wear//Tear +1 Pithing Needle
-2 True-Name Nemesis -2 Grim Lavamancer -3 Swords to Plowshares -1 Umezawa’s Jitte -1 Stoneforge Mystic

ANT
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +2 Rest in Peace +3 Meddling Mage +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Engineered Explosives
-2 True-Name Nemesis -2 Grim Lavamancer -3 Swords to Plowshares -1 Umezawa’s Jitte -1 Wasteland -1 Lightning Bolt

Shardless BUG
+2 Red Elemental Blast +2 Rest in Peace +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Pithing Needle +1 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Daze -4 Force of Will

Blade Control
+2 Red Elemental Blast +2 Wear//Tear +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Daze -4 Force of Will
But on the play I would like to have 4 Daze, but don't know what to cut?!

Elves
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +1 Engineered Explosives +3 Meddling Mage +1 Pithing Needle +1 Swords to Plowshares +1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-4 Daze -2 True-Name Nemesis -1 Batterskull -1 Ponder
Daze and Ponder are good but everything else is too! Maybe +4 Daze -3 Meddling Mage -1 Needle otp?'

Dredge
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +2 Rest in Peace +1 Engineered Explosives +3 Meddling Mage
-2 True-Name Nemesis -2 Grim Lavamancer -3 Swords to Plowshares
Not sure about cutting so much removal..

Maverick
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +2 Wear//Tear +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Pithing Needle +1 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Force of Will otp -4 Daze otd -4 Spell Pierce

Boarding is hard when often so much cards get in. Vs combo it even becomes impossible if you don't play Lavamancer main, because you cut 4 Plow and then what? Even bolt is good! Btw, I love SoFaI instead of Feast and Famine because of TNN board stall prevention (and its just an epic equipment!)

So far I went 4-0-1 (With the draw I had RiP and a good board vs Team America's 'nothing left', but time was up!), 5-0-1 (ID, but won 2-1 when we played) and 3-1 (Loss vs Sneaky Show's Blood Moon, which they never board in vs tempo..). So I'm happy :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Manipulato

Boarding out 4 Daze on the play?? And leave them in on the draw? Are you sure? I mean if I'm 1 turn behind and daze it puts me back 2 turns?

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I hope it was clear I ment this the other way around. Ofcourse you bring them out on the draw and leave them in on the play :) thanks for pointing out this misstake in typing.

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Originally Posted by Lans89

Yeah are you sure? I board like this, which seems like the other way around:

RUG Delver
+2 Rest in Peace +1 True-Name Nemesis +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Swords to Plowshares +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-4 Force of Will -4 Daze otd -4 Spell Pierce otp

Here is my list:

Maindeck
2# Grim Lavamancer
2# True-Name Nemesis
4# Stoneforge Mystic
4# Delver of Secrets

4# Spell Pierce
4# Force of Will
3# Swords to Plowshares
4# Brainstorm
4# Daze
4# Lightning Bolt
3# Ponder
1# Batterskull
1# Umezawa's Jitte

4# Wasteland
3# Flooded Strand
3# Scalding Tarn
3# Arid Mesa
4# Tundra
3# Volcanic Island

Sideboard
1# True-Name Nemesis
3# Meddling Mage
2# Rest in Peace
1# Grafdigger’s Cage
1# Pithing Needle
1# Engineered Explosives
1# Sword of Fire and Ice
1# Swords to Plowshares
2# Red Elemental Blast
2# Wear // Tear

I rly love Grim Lavamancer and won a lot with it, but here in the Netherlands you can find a lot of combo too. I have to play 4 Pierce or else I give away too much game 1's. But when playing Lavamancer you can cut 1 Plow without having trouble vs creature decks, and 3 Ponder is still good. I almost went back to 19 land but rather play safe with 20. Here are some other sb strategies:

Sneaky Show
+3 Meddling Mage +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +2 Wear//Tear +1 Pithing Needle
-2 True-Name Nemesis -2 Grim Lavamancer -3 Swords to Plowshares -1 Umezawa’s Jitte -1 Stoneforge Mystic

ANT
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +2 Rest in Peace +3 Meddling Mage +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Engineered Explosives
-2 True-Name Nemesis -2 Grim Lavamancer -3 Swords to Plowshares -1 Umezawa’s Jitte -1 Wasteland -1 Lightning Bolt

Shardless BUG
+2 Red Elemental Blast +2 Rest in Peace +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Pithing Needle +1 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Daze -4 Force of Will

Blade Control
+2 Red Elemental Blast +2 Wear//Tear +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Daze -4 Force of Will
But on the play I would like to have 4 Daze, but don't know what to cut?!

Elves
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +1 Engineered Explosives +3 Meddling Mage +1 Pithing Needle +1 Swords to Plowshares +1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-4 Daze -2 True-Name Nemesis -1 Batterskull -1 Ponder
Daze and Ponder are good but everything else is too! Maybe +4 Daze -3 Meddling Mage -1 Needle otp?'

Dredge
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +2 Rest in Peace +1 Engineered Explosives +3 Meddling Mage
-2 True-Name Nemesis -2 Grim Lavamancer -3 Swords to Plowshares
Not sure about cutting so much removal..

Maverick
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage +2 Wear//Tear +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Sword of Fire and Ice +1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Pithing Needle +1 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Force of Will otp -4 Daze otd -4 Spell Pierce

Boarding is hard when often so much cards get in. Vs combo it even becomes impossible if you don't play Lavamancer main, because you cut 4 Plow and then what? Even bolt is good! Btw, I love SoFaI instead of Feast and Famine because of TNN board stall prevention (and its just an epic equipment!)

So far I went 4-0-1 (With the draw I had RiP and a good board vs Team America's 'nothing left', but time was up!), 5-0-1 (ID, but won 2-1 when we played) and 3-1 (Loss vs Sneaky Show's Blood Moon, which they never board in vs tempo..). So I'm happy :laugh:

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Thanks for the insights, I'm a dutch player as well and playing this myself. I could really see playing grim main, but so far I've always been unhappy with chances I made myself to a deck from a very good player, I guess I'm not such a good deckbuilder :/. I'm going to play this deck at the NK this week as well.

I could actually see cutting delvers against Elves since your main plan is to get a jitte or grim down and start shouting all his dudes leaving him unable to do anything. While jsut killing dudes and countering spells in the meantime, and delver doesn't really help with that. I could also see boarding pierces out since they can often pay for it since there noncreatures are the last spells they cast. Owen turtenwald boards like this against elves:
- 4 spell pierce - 2 TNN - 1 daze + 2 grim lavamancer + 4 meddling mage + 1 grafdigger's cage. For his list this is right for yours I would board like this:
- 2 TNN - 1 Batterskull - 4 spell pierce + 3 meddling mage + 1 grafdigger's cage + 1 STP + 1 SoFaI + 1 EE

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Originally Posted by Jitse

Thanks for the insights, I'm a dutch player as well and playing this myself. I could really see playing grim main, but so far I've always been unhappy with chances I made myself to a deck from a very good player, I guess I'm not such a good deckbuilder :/. I'm going to play this deck at the NK this week as well.

I could actually see cutting delvers against Elves since your main plan is to get a jitte or grim down and start shouting all his dudes leaving him unable to do anything. While jsut killing dudes and countering spells in the meantime, and delver doesn't really help with that. I could also see boarding pierces out since they can often pay for it since there noncreatures are the last spells they cast. Owen turtenwald boards like this against elves:
- 4 spell pierce - 2 TNN - 1 daze + 2 grim lavamancer + 4 meddling mage + 1 grafdigger's cage. For his list this is right for yours I would board like this:
- 2 TNN - 1 Batterskull - 4 spell pierce + 3 meddling mage + 1 grafdigger's cage + 1 STP + 1 SoFaI + 1 EE

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Cool =)! I'm not sure for the NK, but this deck is one of the best contenders! Last weekend Grim Lavamancer killed so many creatures vs Death and Taxes and Elves, while also being my biggest treat vs Deathblade ^^ He has been awesome! And 10 creatures is just not where I want to be most of the time, I want more treats! He is also awesome in the mirror, which I expect to see more. Since Turtenwalds result people think they have to choose between the 3th and 4th Spell Pierce or 2 Grim Lavamancer, but that is just not necessary! Patriot has put up many results before that GP (mostly Stifle lists), and there are just some slots to change in certain metagames. In Uilenstede I played with the 4th StP and 4th Ponder instead of the 3th and 4th Pierce. In Eindhoven I always expect more combo, and that's why I won't leave home without 4 Pierce.

Because of all our removal, Elves biggest chance for a win is too get a Natural Order in for Progenitus (postboard), so Spell Pierce is rly important. Maybe I should use the same boarding strategy as I use vs other decks, -4 Pierce otp and -4 Daze otd. You will have to use less removal if you can daze their first amazing elf :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Lans89

Because of all our removal, Elves biggest chance for a win is too get a Natural Order in for Progenitus (postboard), so Spell Pierce is rly important. Maybe I should use the same boarding strategy as I use vs other decks, -4 Pierce otp and -4 Daze otd. You will have to use less removal if you can daze their first amazing elf :tongue:

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When they go NO into protegitus they often have 6 mana, which is something you shouldn't forget, If your afraid of NoPro meddling mage and FOW are you biggest weapons against that.

I also think STP might be a better removal spell then bolt, in my experience bolt does not that often go upstairs except against the combo decks. and STP is just a less narrow card since it deals with tarmogoyf. I do really like ponder sinc eit fixes your draws in any given matchup, But I could see bringing in 2 grim's from the side in favor of a bolt and a TNN/STP/second bolt

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Originally Posted by Jitse

When they go NO into protegitus they often have 6 mana, which is something you shouldn't forget, If your afraid of NoPro meddling mage and FOW are you biggest weapons against that.



I also think STP might be a better removal spell then bolt, in my experience bolt does not that often go upstairs except against the combo decks. and STP is just a less narrow card since it deals with tarmogoyf. I do really like ponder sinc eit fixes your draws in any given matchup, But I could see bringing in 2 grim's from the side in favor of a bolt and a TNN/STP/second bolt

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Yeah, stp is leagues better than bolt. If you're gonna run less than 8 removal spells, run 4 stp and some number of bolts, not the other way around. (I would just run the full 8 though, they're both so good.)





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Originally Posted by kaminamina

Yeah, stp is leagues better than bolt. If you're gonna run less than 8 removal spells, run 4 stp and some number of bolts, not the other way around. (I would just run the full 8 though, they're both so good.)





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I also think you want the full 8 removal, but Grim kinds as removal as well he only has a big + and a big -:
+ : You can kill more dudes
- : You have a removal spell that trades with a removal spell, and that takes 1 turn to kill the dude.

I don't think you want this effect more then the 9 times you already have it in your deck (4 botl 4 STP + Jitte) since then your just making your combo matchup to bad. But Switching some of the 1 cmc removal to grim's might be correct, altrough I'm not sure

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Originally Posted by Jitse

I also think you want the full 8 removal, but Grim kinds as removal as well he only has a big + and a big -:
+ : You can kill more dudes
- : You have a removal spell that trades with a removal spell, and that takes 1 turn to kill the dude.

I don't think you want this effect more then the 9 times you already have it in your deck (4 botl 4 STP + Jitte) since then your just making your combo matchup to bad. But Switching some of the 1 cmc removal to grim's might be correct, altrough I'm not sure

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I do not only play Grim because it can win a match almost on its own, but also because 10 creatures is so treat light. 12 seems better and is the same amount as in RUG. I also tested a very tuned Esper Deck with only 3 Snap, 3 TNN and 4 Mystic, but noticed right from the start that I missed Lingering Souls. In some games you need more creatures, also to carry equipment.

StP is good, but vs combo bolt is better, so I have the 4th StP in my sideboard. Grim can kill almost anything, or lightning bolt will help. The 4th Plow and 4th Ponder are very good, but I don´t want to cut my Grim´s ^^

Ps: SoFaI comes in vs almost every matchup... But I don't want to play it main just yet.. This list is tight!

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Originally Posted by Jitse

I could actually see cutting delvers against Elves since your main plan is to get a jitte or grim down and start shouting all his dudes leaving him unable to do anything. While jsut killing dudes and countering spells in the meantime, and delver doesn't really help with that. I could also see boarding pierces out since they can often pay for it since there noncreatures are the last spells they cast. Owen turtenwald boards like this against elves:
- 4 spell pierce - 2 TNN - 1 daze + 2 grim lavamancer + 4 meddling mage + 1 grafdigger's cage. For his list this is right for yours I would board like this:
- 2 TNN - 1 Batterskull - 4 spell pierce + 3 meddling mage + 1 grafdigger's cage + 1 STP + 1 SoFaI + 1 EE

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Don't ever cut Delvers vs. Elves. It's your #1 way to deal damage and easiest path to an early victory (barring some obscene hand with Grim and 2-3 removal spells). Other than Ruric Thor and Abrupt Decay, Elves has no way to deal with Delver, whereas they can block and bounce pretty much anything on the ground, excepting TNN.

So what I'm sinining up for the NK:

4 delver of secrets
4 stoneforge mystic
2 grim lavamancer
1 True-Name Nemesis

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 lightning bolt
3 Swords to plowshares
4 Force of will
4 daze
4 spell pierce

3 arid mesa
3 scalding tarn
3 misty rainforest
4 tundra
3 volcanic island
4 wasteland

//sideboard//
4 meddling mage
1 True-Name nemesis
1 Engineerd explosives
1 grafdigger's cage
1 sword of fire and ice
2 rest in peace
2 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
1 swords to plowshares
1 wear // tear

I desided to cut a TNN since I have the feeling people have the answers for it and 3 mana is often a lot when playing daze. Against the decks TNN is good against grim lavamancer is also good against the most of the time. I have the feeling that I actually have 12 dudes in my deck since batterskull counts as a thread to me. I like grim lavamancer because of it's power in the mirror that's becomming really populair. I play SoFaI in my sideboard now because it attacks through TNN and still is good against combo decks. I basically don't want to change anything that makes my combo significantly matchups worse since I'm from Nijmegen and go to the tournament with like 5 guys that all play combo, and in the Netherlands TES is everywere. I know grim lavamancer is bad against combo, but better then STP or TNN. I like EE since it kills empty the warrens, nimble mongoose, elves and a TNN altrough I'm not sure if I'm soppused to bring them in against the Stoneblade decks.

How I sideboard:

TES (empty the warrens, 5 color storm):

- 1 TNN
- 2 Grim lavamancer
- 3 Swords to plowshares
- 1 Umezawa's jitte
- 2 Lightning bolt

+ 2 red elemental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 1 Engineerd explosives
+ 4 meddling mage
+ 1 SoFaI

ANT (storm with Past in flames, usually no empty):

- 1 TNN
- 2 Grim lavamancer
- 3 Swords to plowshares
- 1 Umezawa's jitte
- 4 Lightning bolt

+ 2 red elemental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 1 grafdigger's cage
+ 4 meddling mage
+ 1 SoFaI
+ 2 rest in peace

Elves:
- 1 TNN
- 1 batterskull
- 4 Spell pierce
- 2 daze

+ 1 STP
+ 1 Engineerd explosives
+ 4 meddling mage
+ 1 SoFaI
+ 1 Grafdigger's cage

UWR delver:
- 4 Force of Will
- 4 Spell pierce (on the play)
- 4 Daze (on the draw)

+ 1 Wear//Tear
+ 1 TNN
+ 1 STP
+ 2 red elemental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 1 SoFaI
+ 1 Engineerd Explosives

RUG delver:

- 4 FOW
- 4 spell pierce (on the play)
- 4 Daze (on the draw)

+ 2 Rest in peace
+ 1 TNN
+ 1 STP
+ 2 red elemental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 1 engineerd explosives

I post more matchups/sideboard stuff Later this evening. (Esper deathblade/ Control / Sneak attack)

Suited up the following for our weekly tournament. Fired an 8 man event, and 3-0'd.

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x True-Name Nemesis
1x Meddling Mage

4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Spell Pierce
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Gitaxian Probe

1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
4x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland

1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Wear // Tear
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Spell Pierce
2x Pyroblast
2x Rest in Peace
3x Meddling Mage

R1 - TES (2-0)
R2 - Death and Taxes (2-1)
R3 - RUG Delver (2-0)

The event was composed of the following archetypes:

TES
UWR Delver
RUG Delver
2x Death & Taxes
Merfolk
Shardless BUG
12 Post (w/ Candelabras)


Encountered a nice interaction with Thalia and EE (sunburst + taxation), catching my opponent off guard and winning me a tight match. Pikula in the main has grown on me, but I still feel a tad skeptical about playing 20 lands.

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Originally Posted by SevenInTheQueue

Encountered a nice interaction with Thalia and EE (sunburst + taxation), catching my opponent off guard and winning me a tight match. Pikula in the main has grown on me, but I still feel a tad skeptical about playing 20 lands.

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How does the "nice interaction" work?:confused:

Say you want to have a explosives @ 2 but opponent has Thalia:

So you cast Explosives for one (spending U for example) than taxing effect of Thalia says you have to pay one more, and you use W for that. Now you have Explosives @ 2, because you spent two different colours to cast it and Sunburst = 2.

Digging that interaction :P

RE: Match up vs. RUG

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Originally Posted by Jitse

I would sb like this:

- 4 FOW
- 4 spell pierce (on the draw)
- 4 daze (on the play)

+ 2 red elemnental blast
+ 1 pyroblast
+ 2 grim lavamancer
+ 2 rest in peace
+ 1 TNN

daze is more powerful as pierce but it's really hard to play around your opponent dazes when your playing daze yourself.
After board it's so nice how:
2 grim, 1 jitte, 3 red/pyroblast and 4 bolt deal with delver
3 TNN, 2 RIP and 1 Batterskull deal with mongoose
3 TNN, 2 RIP and 4 STP deal with tarmogoyf

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I understand wanting grim lavamancer, but I do think RIP is really good against this match up as well. Playing both ... seems a bit bad since they don't work with each other at all.

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Originally Posted by zerzab11

Say you want to have a explosives @ 2 but opponent has Thalia:

So you cast Explosives for one (spending U for example) than taxing effect of Thalia says you have to pay one more, and you use W for that. Now you have Explosives @ 2, because you spent two different colours to cast it and Sunburst = 2.

Digging that interaction :P

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This.

Ended up cleaning up a Thalia, Jitte and an SFM all in one sweep. :D

I haven't tested out Canonist in the board yet, but it seems kind of extreme going down from 4 Meddling Mage to only 2. I don't feel as the field has shifted enough to warrant such a drastic change.

I've been playing this deck for about two weeks now on MODO. Now that TNN is available do you guys think leaving a one-of geist of saint traft might be better than a 3rd TNN.

Is there a particular reason people md +1 gitaxian probe over a Stp?


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Originally Posted by Deadtwomtg

I've been playing this deck for about two weeks now on MODO. Now that TNN is available do you guys think leaving a one-of geist of saint traft might be better than a 3rd TNN.

Is there a particular reason people md +1 gitaxian probe over a Stp?


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If you start seeing a lot Golgari Charms and other methods of killing TNN, then you can run a Geist. Geist closes out games faster, but can be blocked and cannot be used as a wall.

The reasons people use the 1-of Probe rather than STP is for the combo/control match-ups. STP is weak vs. those match-ups, where Probe gives you information and thins your deck.