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Doesn't shattering spree get auto-countered by Chalice@1? I know you can replicate it for R, but does that change the converted mana cost? Never really run into that before...Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
EDIT: Is it because they are copies? So the first one gets countered but the copies resolve because they aren't cast?
Yeah the copies aren't cast so they're not countered. Also no effect on the converted mana cost.
Made a big dent in getting cards for the deck. Ensnaring Bridge, Cave-In, Helm of Awakening. Looking forward to jamming the deck in a week or two at FNM.
I'm fairly close too. I have everything except the Ensnaring Bridges for the sideboard.
Nobody has posted a list in a while, I'd like to see what you guys are running. Mine is posted below. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute more in the future for match up analysis. I'll be testing it against Eldrazi & Taxes, BR Reanimator and BUG Delver with results. All three of which I think can be tough match ups. Not that Eldrazi & Taxes is super common, but still think that match up could be tough and it IS in my meta.
Btw, I still like Simian Spirit Guide main deck. Even though you can't grab it off AoI, 4 Lotus Petals doesn't quite feel like enough and after Reforge the Soul or in your opening hand it is amazing.
I recently dropped down to 2x main deck Reforge the Soul and 1x on the sb. Anyway, here's my list. EDIT: Thoughts??
//Finishers: 6
3x Burning Wish
3x Empty the Warrens
//Draw / Utility: 10
4x Act on Impulse
3x Past in Flames
2x Reforge the Soul
1x Gamble
//Cantrips: 8
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Manamorphos
//Rituals: 12
4x Seething Song
4x Rite of Flame
2x Desperate Ritual
2x Simian Spirit Guide
//Rocks: 10
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ruby Medallion
2x Helm of Awakening
//Land: 14
3x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
4x Mountain
//Sideboard: 15
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Blood Moon
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in Flames
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Shattering Spree
1x Pyroclasm
1x Flame Slash
deck list looks good. if warrens improves those matches it's prob worth it. otherwise i'd rather have the 4th wish over the 3rd warrens.
Thank you! Yeah, maybe you are right about cutting a EtW for another Wish. Wish has more utility although there are games where I don't get either enough draw or cantrips and I can just EtW off of ramp into 8-12 goblins.
Also, I forgot to add my Tormod's Crypts into my sideboard. Not sure what to cut but I'm guessing I need to at the very least run 2. Probably cut Flame Slash and either Goblin War Strike or Grapeshot. Not sure which one is more important.
Also, Mistercakes and Mr. Safety, what are your recommended lists at the moment? You guys appear to have contributed the most so far as in testing. Thanks!
Will post tomorrow. If you have LEDs, maybe vieko can post his latest build. I know he has the most experience with the deck at this point. He's just not as active. I've been traveling a lot for work and been busy with the baby.
Goblin War Strike > Flame Slash ... I would swap it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
This is what I'm running online right now, I keep on adjusting the SB – the MB is just about perfect IMHO:
RUBY STORM 5.3
15 LAND
13 Mountain
2 City of Traitors
8 RITUAL
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
8 MANA
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
5 TUTOR
4 Burning Wish
1 Gamble
4 DAMAGE
4 Guttersnipe
4 REDUCTION
4 Ruby Medallion
4 EXILE / PLAY
4 Act on Impulse
4 MANA / DRAW
4 Manamorphose
4 PEEK / DRAW
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 FLASHBACK
3 Past in Flames
1 STORM
1 Empty the Warrens
SIDEBOARD
2 Defense Grid
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 By Force
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Anger of the Gods
i think it's best to think of this deck w/ the minimum amount of each card:
4 ruby medallion
4 lotus petal
4 seething song
4 rite of flame
4 burning wish
4 act on impulse
4 manamorphose
2 past in flames
10 mountain
sb should contain one of the following (minimum)
1 past in flames
1 grapeshot
1 empty the warrens
in addition cards that have been played:
upping the lands to 13, 14, 15 or 16
this can be done with
mountains
ancient tomb
city of traitors
crystal vein
after lands:
past in flames
reforge the soul
hazoret's undying fury
empty the warrens
desperate ritual
simian spirit guide
helm of awakening
guttersnipe
lion's eye diamond
commune with lava
gitaxian probe
gamble
chandra, torch of defiance
defense grid
magma jet
insult / injury
faithless looting
sideboard cards in addition to the 3 mandatory ones
tendrils of agony
cave-in
reforge the soul
goblin war strike
abrade
fiery confluence
pyroclasm
kozilek's return
abrade
by force
defense grid
tormod's crypt
scab-clan berserker
hazoret's undying fury
pyroblast
red elemental blast
pyrokinesis
chaos warp
i'm sure there is more we haven't explored yet, but this is a growing list. will add this to the primer as it helps brewing with this deck.
I would like to test Pyromancer Ascension again. It was in the very first draft, and am curious how powerful it could be. If anyone has time and is willing to test I'm a bit lacking for time!
@Vieko: i really like your list and mine is quite the same, but i can't understand guttersnipe. I mean, it's a powerfull creature that can resolve some situations... but it's our only creature, giving a target to oppo's removals and vs most of the field it dies after the first spell we cast. Moreover it's a cc3, not so light.
I've cut the goblin and 1 PiF to add 2 Gamble, 2 Wheel and an Helm, and i'm loving the decklist. I think that gamble is too good, even just for having a reliable access to sideboard cards.
I was getting to a closer list, but then I worked in Overmaster x3. I really like the idea of a cheap disruption, and at a minimum it cantrips. That gives us up to 12 straight cantrips that are mana efficient (Manamorphose, GitProbe, Overmaster.) I found in so many situations the real hitch was resolving a payoff spell (Burning Wish, Past in Flames, Reforge the Soul, Hazoret's Undying Fury.) Also, with Overmaster main that means I can cut sideboard copies of Pyroblast (which are good, but not great) for additional spells that can do a lot more work (Abrade, Ensnaring Bridge.) Current list with sideboard:
Rituals - 11
4x Rite of Flame
3x Desperate Ritual
4x Seething Song
Artifacts - 10
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ruby Medallion
1x Helm of Awakening
1x Chrome Mox
Draw - 6
4x Manamorphose
2x Act on Impulse
Disruption/Peek - 7
3x Overmaster
4x Gitaxian Probe
Storm Engines - 5
3x Past in Flames
2x Hazoret's Undying Fury
Tutors/Win Conditions - 7
4x Burning Wish
2x Gamble
1x Empty the Warrens
Lands - 14
10x Mountain
4x Crystal Vein
Sideboard
1x Past in Flames (wish)
1x Empty the Warrens (wish)
1x Tendrils of Agony (wish)
1x Grapeshot (wish)
1x Cave-In (wish)
1x By Force (wish)
1x Reforge the Soul
2x Blood Moon
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast
So far, the extra cheap cantrip of Overmaster has been better than feeding countermagic to opponents with Wheels. I love the 1-of Wheel in the sideboard, but maindeck it is just too risky. Much happier with Act on Impulse, which I would love to get a 3rd copy in there. I will test for a good amount of games, probably 20 or so, and then see which card can be cut. Preliminary ideas for the cut would be the Chrome Mox, a GitProbe, a Desperate Ritual, or the Helm of Awakening. Everything else seems to be necessary for me. I won't budge on the 2 Gambles because they are ways to functionally get my 1-of non-BW sideboard cards g2-3.
@mistercakes: you somehow omitted Gitaxian Probe in your most recent post of potential cards.
Oops! Will fix. I would cut a hazoret's and a past in flames probably. (or the mox) for 2 AoI.
Yeah, the mox was my first pick. I want to try one instead of a Simian Spirit Guide. It gets my free mana sources up to 5 (4 Petal/1mox) and it's really good with Reforge the Soul with extra cards to pitch. Maybe it's better as just a SSG, but I think if its no good I'll just slot in the 3rd AoI.
Hazoret's I have a love/hate relationship with. I haven't really had bad flips with it, but I have had it stuck in hand plenty of times. Maybe its better as a 1-of, and maybe zero. I don't want it in my sideboard, its just too much mana (when 4-5 mana gets me Wheel and 7 fresh cards.) With only 1 copy I will never flip another one, lol, which makes good sense but reduces the chance of it being a factor in gameplay. With Gamble, I will almost always have it available in a pinch, so maybe it's the right place for AoI.
Guttersnipe's won me games I would've otherwise lost... I'm testing Faithless Looting (again) in place of the 'snipe but find it just O.K... I've ran multiple Gambles and they are simply not what I want to get unless the game goes long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
@mrsafety: tested Overlord before, results were just O.K. for me... but do keep us posted. Mistercakes hates on Probe whenever possible ;) sometimes subconsciously.
Yeah, but what i can't understand is: how is it possibile that in Snipe just don't die immediately? Having just 1 target for oppo's removals and no protections seems too risky for me. Obviously he's nuts against Combo and Prison, but against any control/midrange/tempo deck?Quote:
Originally Posted by vieko
Looting I think gets way better with LED. You're much more committed to Past in Flames and Looting feeds right into that. I ended up scrapping Looting for Act on Impulse, which I wasn't playing nearly enough of. The big fear for me, which happened several times, is that Looting makes you vulnerable to early Deathrite Shamans. If you're banking on flashing back Past in Flames, or any of your rituals, Looting makes a nice fat target for Deathrite Shaman. If all you are doing is discarding excess lands you're fine, but if it's spells it becomes a real slog. Again, just my limited experience with the card. I loved that it provided a more proactive game turns 1-3, getting the kill turn set up better. If Overmaster becomes a dud that is definitely a spot I could see Looting being tried again.Quote:
Originally Posted by vieko
Regarding Gamble, I haven't had a situation where it was dead or it punished me for playing it. I have several times Gamble-d for a redundant card in hand like Burning Wish, which can bait a counterspell really nicely. If it doesn't I'm still in the same position, and Burning Wish (or whaterver I tutored for) in the graveyard is usually ok (unless there's an active Deathrite Shaman...so much splash damage against our deck!) I've played it mostly for Past in Flames and Rite of Flame, but also for Seething Song, Empty the Warrens, Burning Wish, Hazoret's, and Overmaster. Mana hasn't been my big hiccup with the deck; it has been utilizing that mana for a payoff spell that wins. Adding one R to the mix to play Gamble has been easy to achieve, and gives a bunch of redundancy.
I found a Guttersnipe in my random card boxes, but I'm not sure testing a singleton would give me any real info. How many were you playing?
EDIT: You called Overmaster Overlord...were you referencing Lamb of God? If so, you made my day! \m/
Vieko, I like your new list and saw that you swept your last tourney. I'm testing your exact list right now. There are so many dirty tricks with LED and from my testing and from experience playing Belcher and Burning Reanimator I can't see why they wouldn't be a staple in the deck. LED + Act on Impulse, LED + Burning Wish and LED + Past in Flames etc.. Plus I found that getting the BB for Tendrils was so much easier. It's just too good to not include. It's interesting though that the deck goes off no problem without them as well.
So far I'm not totally sold on the Guttersnipes though. Although, I might just be bad at playing your build. I can't seem to get Guttersnipe to go lethal. Ideally I want to get him in play before I go off but usually by the time I get him there I've had to cast all of my rituals and have no fuel left to get him to deal damage. I just can't seem to get him on the table before I go off. I did have one game where I had enough mana to Grapeshot for 7 and Guttersnipe did 10 putting my opponent at 3 on turn two but it wasn't enough to finish him off. I did see some potential where I could have gotten two Guttersnipes in play which could have dished out some pain but I didn't have enough mana left to cast the remaining rituals in my hand. I'm gonna play your build more though. Perhaps I was just either getting bad draws or just need to get better at it.
@mistercakes: That is a good guide to go by and I'm now only running two main EtW and four main Burning Wish. As for the land count 14 feels correct. 10 Mountains and some sort of combination of City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb. More budget friendly builds can run Crystal Vein or even Sandstone Needle. Crystal Vein is fine but with City and Tomb you can get a turn one Ruby and turn two you can tap them again. Crystal Vein you lose the land if you do this. It's still good though.
@Mr. Safety: I'm also liking the idea of Overmaster. At the very least they cycle plus they cycle again with Past in Flames which is huge. You can protect your PiF and then again protect your Wish. I'm going to give it a test. Btw, I see you are only running 2 AoI. Are you missing them or does that count feel correct?
I'm not missing one, I ran out of room. If Chrome Mox doesn't work the way I want it to, I will drop it for a 3rd AoI. If Chrome Mox works out well, I'll likely drop a Hazoret's for a 3rd Act on Impulse. I'm just doing some testing before I decide where to cut for the 3rd copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Brains
LOL did I? Didn't mean to but I've been listening to a ton of Black Dahlia Murder + Lamb of God lately (among others) so who knows the tricks my mind plays on me ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety