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Since you can't force anyone to block your creatures, this is strictly worse than an Escape Artist which doesn't seem playable either.
I don't really consider the problem about the Looter all that severe. Nobody forces you to attack with it, you are likely to have other equipment carriers if you don't want the draw/discard effect... it wouldn't be good as a 4-of but I don't see a problem with two.
I have some sideboard questions...
I'm running 3 Trinisphere. Do you think it's a good enough card to run. It's useful a lot but should I play Arcane Lab or run something else? I want something to hose combo and hurt burn but that I can also bring in against nongoblins aggro. Any suggestions?
How good is Propaganda at hosing goblins. (I play more fat in my build so if I can stall them I can win). Its beening working really well so I don't know why people aren't running it.
Winter Orb is a 4 of, between these three cards, I can deal with most problem matchups sans Angel Stompy right? Or are there any problem matchups I'm forgetting.
I've honestly not run into any matchups that are that bad. Has anyone found any? How is the burn matchup, if you don't draw Chalice?
@Clark Kant : When do you sideboard your Trinisphere ? Against which decks, and instead of which cards? It is a good card for sure, even if it is much less efficient than in T1, but I always saw it as sb “win more” card for FS.
Combo should be very favourable MUs anyway (fast clock +forces +chalices +needle), so I guess Arcane Lab is also not really needed.
Good luck for a card that “hoses combo and hurts burn”, that you can bring in against nongoblins aggro. I believe there are no such cards. The most useful sb cards against random aggro are Grasps/Control Magic. But when you need some sb space, these are the cards that often are cut.
I haven’t tried Propaganda against Gob. I’ll try it, because my Gob games are very close, despite my 7 proRed (3 MD + 4 SB).
Depending on your FS version, Burn is completely or almost a bye. For me, it is a real bye (no single round/match/anything lost vs Burn with FS). You have chalice=1 to ruin them. Mages to fetch them. All your pro Red faeries + any equipment. You really have a fast clock and Misdirections in SB just in case. Why would you ever worry for Burn decks?
As for the “bad MUs”:
- Affinity & Gob = 50 -50 depending on who starts and how many cards you can side in.
I am never “happy” to meet Gob in tournament when I play FS.
-Life & Aluren = also 50 -50. I know these decks are not heavily played in the US, but I see a couple here in France. If the deck is correctly built, and the opponent skilled enough to play it, it is a little tough. You almost only have needle to sb in.
-Landstill & other control decks: g1 you die, g2 you usually win with all the hate you brought in, g3 is tough again. This is the real unfavourable MU for sure.
Apart from these,I believe FS has a favourable MU against almost everything.
Against gob, a propaganda gives you between 2 and 4 additional turns just by itself. The problem is that your opponent is going to side in REBs and that you can peacefully play propaganda only after a resolved chalice@1.
I'm still awaiting a convincing reason not to run Propaganda to side in against Goblins, Affinity and other random fast aggro. You guys do list them both among your bad matchups.
Propaganda is a very good card against Goblins.
It's only weakness is that it can be stopped by a ReB. But that's only if your opponent drew one, you weren't able to bait it out with a Sea Drake, you didn't have a force in hand, and you weren't able to draw, or tutor into a Chalice to cast. Once again that's a lot of hoops that a goblin player has to jump through to destroy the Propaganda.
The fact that Propaganda is solid against almost every other aggro deck, as it buys you the time you need to kill them with your flying beaters, I see no reason not to run it in the sideboard.
That worst case scenario of having 2 piledrivers beating requires that your opponent drew and successfully resolved two, you have no prored guys to block with, you have nothing equipped with SOFI, your opponent has 4 mana to tap.
That's a lot of hoops to jump through.
And in that situation, I would gladly take 6 damage a turn thanks to the propanda I have in play, over the 14+ damage I would almost certainly take a turn if there was no propaganda in play. Atleast with 6 damage, I have a turn or two to kill them.
Is landstill and control really as bleak as you guys make it sound. Is game 1 really that winnable? Even after Winter Orb game 3? I hadnt noticed it being that bad.
As for life/aluren, I've never played those matchups so I wouldn't know. I don't even know what they run? How could either deck be fast enough to deal with your fast clock though?
As for Trinisphere, like I said, I run it to side in against combo (mainly solidarity) and burn. Burn shouldn't be underestimated. The new builds playing Rift Bolt are very fast and deadly. The only time where you have a clock as fast as them is when you get a turn one Sea Drake, and that usually gets bolted (screwing you over) before you even realize what matchup you're facing. Some games, you end up having to take a ton of damage from your own Ancient Tombs to put your opponent on any sort of clock. Force of Will is a small speedbump for both decks. Yes Chalice is gold in these matchups, but you won't see it every game, and many times, it can quite readily be bounced back before comboing off. Siding in Trini lets you have a good chance of always drawing combo hate post sidebaord.
Like I said, my current build isn't running Trinket Mages :eek: (believe me I have my reasons for trying what I'm trying - I'm the same guy who always advocated 4 Trinket Mages remember) so without Trinket Mage, I wanted that little something extra to bring in from the side. I was just wonderign if you guys had any recommendations better than Trinisphere against combo and burn.
Propaganda surely helps against aggro decks, but I am not sure of its relevancy against Affinity, where you probably would rather get a needle on Cranial Plating. Affinity would have the 2 mana to attack with the equipped ornithopter/Enforcer.
The reason not to run it in the sb, despite it being “solid” against almost other aggro is that almost other aggro are already positive MUs. And against other aggro desk, you’d prefer to draw some steal spells (Binding Grasps, Control Magic)
I still haven’t tried Propaganda against Gob; it is probably the MU where they are the more relevant.
Yes, Landstill’s like MUs are really bad. I’m talking about the UW version, the U/R version is a lot easier for simple reasons.
I’m not surprised you don’t face Aluren/Life in the US.
FYI, Aluren can goldfish on turn 3, i.e. infinite life, and about 20 infinity/infinity creatures on board. I t won’t happen every game, but more often than the FS Turn 3 kill. So your fast clock is not that helpful here. When you win, it is with a combination of Needles, chalices, Trinket Mages and forces of Will, and then savage beating. Not the opposite.
As for the life MU, they have a lot of tutors to very frequently reach infinite life around turn 4, and a few spells to survive until that moment. At this time, your fast clock is not very helpful. The good news, is that this deck has trouble to kill, and often ends up with draws, and not in the top tables in tournament.
As a matter of fact, the best recommendation would be running Trinket Mages. Against both decks, it brings you the needed chalices; against combo you also get a 2/2. What have you added for your removed Mages? I hope you realize a good share of your problematic MUs should come from this.
As for the Burn MU, I’m not lying when I say it is a bye for me while I play FS, so I am surprised it is not your case. We agree chalice is golden, hence the reason to play 8 (4 Trinket Mages). I personally play 3 proRed faeries MD, and 4 more in SB. That’s 7 proRed creatures. Any of these equipped is gg most of the time. You NEVER want to open tomb+Mox+Sea Drake against burn on turn 1. You damage yourself with Serendibs, forces, tombs, it is true, but chalice gives you massive CA, and Jitte the life you need. I hope you will get one day the pleasure of misdirection a Fireblast FTW against Burn.
I suppose you must play a different version, with less Jitte, less pro Red dudes, no Trinket Mages (which is really amazing), and maybe no Misdirections. But then, there should be more useful stuff to play against combo and Burn before Trinisphere. Starting with Trinket Mages.
Goblins aren't a bad match-up unless the build is really weird. Just throwing that out there. Rg is probably the only really problematic variant, and even then only if they run 4 Tin Streets.
As for Landstill, my track record against them is still good. It's just about them drawing the right answers vs. us drawing the right threats. I just play Chalice at 1 and let it all go, utilising the anti-Standstill play guidelines from Vintage. I use additional Chalices to bait counters and hold back generally one for post-Vengeance/Disk play, don't drop Chalice at 1 at all if StPs have already been cast, then just focus on winning with one equipped creature to force then to Wrath of God whatever I play.
I do get your point Eldariel, but for me Gob is still not really a good MU (nor bad either). I lose about 50% of the times when I meet Gob in tournament. In France, quite a lot play Pyrokenesis MD, and it hurts. The weird thing is I play more proRed than you (3 MD, tests with up to 4 in SB), and 4 Jittes. Other MUs are fine. Maybe I am doomed against Gob (I often only mulligan/get the worst hands) versus them.
As for Landstill, as previously said, I usually lose g1, win g2, but almost never win g3. The W Splash is really annoying. Chalice for 1 is tempting, but they do have a lot of juicy Needle targets too (Nevinyrral’s, Mishra’s, Wastelands …). I’ll be glad to know what else you imply by “utilising the anti-Standstill play guidelines from Vintage.” Do you side out your Jittes in this MU (for Orbs for instance)?
Eh, it's basically just that you're forced to break Standstill anyways, so break it early when they haven't developed their mana yet and try to beat them before they can realize the card advantage (of course, if you have something like a Sea Drake under Still, feel free to win the race. If you do though, they fucked up). But ya, Chalice at 2 is one of the best weapons against them. As for siding out, I often side out down to 2 Jittes and 3 SoFIs (I only want one in any given game and they usually let it resolve), then probably a Chalice and a pro-red critter. Also, the second Needle comes in. But yea, early Chalice at 1 is pretty good, later on you'll want to aim them at 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaelle
Against Landstill, have you tried running 4 Winter Orbs instead of just 3?
Eldariel says that the goblins matchup is decent, but I haven't found it to be favorable enough to be happy with it considering how often that matchup seems to come up..
Here's a new tech I'm trying that I think greatly boosts it.
Silent Arbiter. You can easily cast it turn 2 or turn 3 and as long as you make it a point to protect it with Forces and Misdirections, you make it impossible for goblins to race you while you fly overhead for the win.
It's such a massive tempo swing in your favor.
Another card I'm trying is a lone Steel Wall and a lone Slagwurm Armor.
Both are fetchable with Trinket Mage and Slagwurm Armor especially disables red's ability to burn your creatures, and Exalted Angel's/Mystic Enforcers ability to kill off your flyers and attackers. This in turn lets you focus all your attention on countering their Parrallax Waves to get the win. Stell Wall is okay but maybe meh, I'm considering replacing it with O-naginata, as trample can be a huge boon considering I run some artifact ground attackers too.
What do you guys think? Especially regarding Silent Arbiter and Slagwurm Armor. Try it out.
I honestly think Silent Arbiter is a far better sideboarding choice than pro red 1/1s that are useless against a horde.
Sorry that I wasn't clearer. If you didn't get this from the mention of FoW and Chalice backup, I'm talking about Fairie Stompy.
Fairie Stompy is a ridiculously fast deck too, and all it's threats fly. The only problem is, Goblins can race it with a decent hand, whether or not it plays a couple of pro red 1/1s.
I'm not trying to put up a wall, I'm trying to stop goblins attacks for two turns or so which is more than enough for F. Stompy to get the win. By the time goblins has made the 6 land drops needed for Seige-Gang to kill of Arbiter, F. Stompy should have won, and at the worst case, be with in a turn of winning. And I would rather that all of Seige-Gangs tokens be used to deal with Arbiter than to kill off two of my other threats. So Seige-Gang wasn't the concern. My concern is with Gempalm and the the lone Sharpshooter, and any disenchant effects you bring in from the side.
It's been pretty easy for me to bait out the Gempalm to be used on one of my creatures. And it hasn't been too hard to bait out the disenchant effects and Tinkerers to deal with my equipment and chalices and such too. But I'm not sure if that had to do with my opponents playskill or build.
So once again, how useful would you say siding in 4 Silent Arbiter against this deck be with FoW and/or Chalice backup? Would it be enough to slow the deck by a cuple of turns.
What about 4 Propaganda? Does that card usually slow you down by a couple of turns, even though it seems like every build brings in ReB's to deal with Drakes and Efreets. But once again, you can bait out ReBs with these or with Propaganda as well depending on what you need more at the moment, a stall tactic, or a creature.
I'm trying to figure out which of those two cards, Arbiter and Propaganda, I should side in to stop the goblins by a few turns so I can win.
Thx in advance.
Edit: Moved from Vial Goblins thread. -J
I seem to have killed this thread, and I want to do what I can to try and revive it.
Has the correct number to set Chalice at against each matchup been discussed at all?
Against goblins for example, is the best plan to immediatley set it at 1 if you are on the play, and at 2 once there is a Lackey/Vial out.
What about Thresh, is it sometimes better to set it at 2?
Solidarity? Is 2cc the optimal number.
Yeah, but it never hurts to brush up and discuss it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Depends. I always will drop it at one if they haven't laid down a Lackey or Vial. If it's too late for that, then I will lay one @ 2 to stop Piledriver and Tinkerer (the exception being if they are playing the white splash I might still lay it @ 1). Also, I often board them out if I'm going to be on the play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Not in any match I've ever played against them. Chalice @1 just wrecks them so much more. I guess if you somehow knew they were holding a naturalize...Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
I'm not really the Solidarity expert, but I almost always lay one @1 first to cut them off from their quick mana then I try to race them or dig for more Chalices/Forces.
The only matchups I can think of off the top of my head where I almost always lay a Chalice @2 before a Chalice @1 (remember that Chalice @2 does cut you off from playing Chalice @1) are Deadguy, Angel Stompy, and Affinity. Still, all of those could probably even be debated.
Here is something that a friend of mine wanted me to post here...
Here's a card spoiled from PC.
Chronozoa 3U
Creature - Illusion
Flying
Vanishing 3
When Chronozoa goes into a graveyard from play, if there are no time counters on Chronozoa, put two token creatures into play that are copies of Chronozoa.
Illus. James Wong 3/3
Looks tasty, esp as a blocker. What do you guys think? Automatic 4 of or no? It's not fast but it is an incredible tempo swing, letting you essentially trade with a creature, and still get two 3/3 flyers for a very affordable mana cost.
And another interesting card...
Ovinize 1U
Instant (TS)
Target creature loses all abilities and becomes 0/1 until end of turn.
It lets you block and kill off your opponents Exalted Angel or Arcbound Ravager or Darksteel Colassus with your Cloud of Faires!
Still might be too narrow though.
Edit: Sorry, just noticed that the text of Chronzoa now says that you don't put the 2 3/3 flyers into play unless it has no counters on it. That means you have to wait 3 turns. Does that make the card unplayable?
About chalices, I never side them out versus Gob. Here in France, most play REBs+some Needles in SB, chalice=1 post SB is therefore really important.
Against Threshold, I really try hard to get a chalice=1 as soon as I can. I used to sometimes chalice=2 post SB, but I believe disenchants/Naturalize will turn into Krosan Grip anyways.
Against Solidarity, I chalice for 1 ASAP. It removes them a few spells, including High Tide, Have to wish for a bounce, etc. And you have the fast clock, forces of Will+ Misdirections. I tried sideboarding a couple time Winter Orbs against them (instead of SoFIs), and usually, when they hit the board in the first turns, they allow to get rid of a Force, or nicely slow down the Solidarity player.
Phantom, there is also vs the 43 Lands deck you want to chalice for 2 instead of 1 (if you draw one).
I took my build of FS to a Legacy tournament this WE, (42 players, 5 rounds+Top8), and I finished 1st, using the build I played at the Legacy side event of the Worlds. The metagame was REALLY random. Anyway, I lose 2/1 vs UW Fish, win 2/0 versus WWr, Random MonoG, Fish UWb, and win 2/1 vs UG Control/”millstone deck”, Taiga, Threshold UGr, and the same UW Fish in finals.
I won a revised Underground Sea NM + 4 Alliances boosters, for 5 euros.
I’m still solid on playing 8 equipments MD, 4 Trinket Mages, 3 MD proRed and 18 lands. I’m less solid on my SB. I believe 3 Winter Orbs, 3 Misdirections, 2 Tormod’s Crypt, 1 Pithing Needle and 1 Engineered Explosives are must have. In the 5 remaining slots, I’m mainly thinking about 3 Control Magic, more Needles, 2-4 Pro Red. The real problem, at least for me, is the fact I lose about 50% of the times versus Gob in tournament. I even tried playing up to 4 more SB ProRed. Propaganda is nice (slows them, less enchantment hate), but without chalice=1, it has “Piroblasts me” written on it.
I like Clark Kant idea, playing 3-4 SB Silent Arbitrer, as it would help the 2 even aggro MU (Gob, Affinity), and I believe could help versus random Aggro (as a wall preventing the horde while equiped Drake/Efreet is attacking each turn), and maybe some other MU (efficient vs Landstill and the cycled decrees for instance). I will definitely try it, but it will sadly probably end up Gempelm Incinerated vs Gob quite often.
At first glance, I am not convinced at all by both Chronozoa and Ovinize in FS, the 2 PC cards revealed : Chronozoa costs 3U, not 2U, and it is 3/3 flying which is not bad, but not impressive either. The copies could help, but no copies if it is sworded, or if it goes to the graveyard with some time counters. All in all, seldom copies, and/or probably too late anyway. Ovinize is too narrow too as you pointed out. I still hope something good for FS is coming, as they changed the color pie…
I'm assuming you're already running 1 Engineered Explosives and 1 Pithing Needle along with Chalice. So as far as equipment goes...Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
In the new build I'm testing, I like running 1 Slagwurm Armor MD as tech against Exalted Angel and random reanimated Akromas. You can't beat being able to stop Akromas cold with a Cloud of Faries. It also puts your Sea Drakes or what not out of burn range which is awesome. I like it more than SOFI in those situations.
O-naginata is pretty good too.
And Steel Wall in the sideboard to bring in as a tutorable early defense against goblins or after setting a chalice at 2.
I would like some feedback on these cards? You guys think they're worth it or no?
I've tried almost every piece of 1cc equipment out there, and they really aren't worth it. They always look so tempting on paper, but in an actual game, you never really fetch them. You're always going for Chalice or Needle or Explosives.
Steel Wall is terrible since we want a a Chalice @1 ASAP against Goblins if they haven't played a Vial, and if they have played a Vial, you sure as hell better be fetching a Needle. If you really want something to fetch like this (and I wouldn't recommend it) use Shield Sphere since it dodges Chalice and can be dropped the same turn you cast your Trinket.
From the Planar Chaos complete spoiler, I'd say the best card for this deck is Serra Sphinx, but it's probably too expensive to be effective. The primary thing I've been working on lately is the splash, and results so far have been inconclusive. Basically (like this thread discussed a while back), this deck has stalled again. Our testing and tourney results seem to indicate that we're close to Tier One, but the deck is still inconsistant and is still plagued by some weaker cards.
This deck is unique because it requires a loose balance of blue cards (Force, Chome Mox), artifacts (Trinklet, Thirst if it's there), on-color, and (2) lands. This makes cards that meld these requirements or have multiple uses good in this deck - cards like Cloud of Faeries (more on them later) and Shoreline Ranger (still great as a one-of for me). I abandoned the Thirst plan a while back for the Fof/il-Kor plan and saw improvements. My Goblins matchup, however, isn't where I want it, and the deck just seems to fail to gel a good part of the time. It's like playing a deck with multiple two-card combos: you have creatures and equipment, (2) nonbasics and (U) basics, artifacts and blue cards, card draw and tempo advantage; the deck works best when you draw each of them is the right balance. I do like il-Kor in the deck, because it helps you to fine-tune within the game, and I have been getting great results with the deck as it (see below). That said, I've been trying to make it better, and have looked at all four colors for a possible splash. Because I see the mana base as something similar to a two-color model ((U) lands and (2) lands), and the lands available in Legacy can produce (U) and an off-color while only sacrificing basic-ness, I see a splash as feasible. Another color gives the deck better sideboard solutions, better maindeck solutions against aggro, better cards overall (no more running sub-par cards with synergy but not power) and, in a pinch, another SUnburst mana (though Explosives might be cut from my list, I don't see it doing much for me these days). The biggest weakness I've noticed is on-blue cards for Force.
Here is the deck I'm playing without the splash.
The Source Faerie Stompy
Creatures (20)
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Looter-il-Kor
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
1 Shoreline Ranger
4 Trinket Mage
Artifacts (17)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
Instants (7)
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
Land (16)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
7 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
Sideboard (15)
3 Binding Grasp
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Misdirection
1 Pithing Needle
2 Psionic Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Winter Orb
I eliminated Green and White from possible splash colors early on and never extensivly explored ether color. Call of the Herd, Geddon, Moat, and whatever couldn't bring as much as black or red. I don't have matchup percentags or anything, because many of my testing games have been informal or incompleted; if I arrange anything, I'll be sure to post it. Black was my first choice due to the sideboard bombs it brings. Without bringing a few cards into the maindeck, though, messing up the mana-base further (hopefully not running fetches, but still bad) doesn't seem worth it. This splash right now shows the most promise, and my results overall have been solid. The black cards I have explored or am planning on exploring are the following:
Engineered Plague
Perish
Virtue's Ruin
Plague Spitter (a personal favorite)
Bone Shredder
Dark Confidant
Necromancy
Phyrexian Scuta
Phyrexian Negator
Rend Flesh
Massacre
The cards that defenetly have earned their keep in my various U/b lists are Plague, Spitter, and Perish, but I'm still struggling to find the right mix of cards. When I put four Spitters in, the il-Kors and Faeries are gone, but then I'm short on creatures and the deck doesn't gel. It is, on that note, increadable against weenie decks. The matchup vs. Goblins gets much better with the black in. If only Arena was 2B, I'd plan U/b for sure in a second (I tested it anyways and the manabase defenetly couldn't support it).
The other splash is the Red splash. The cards I've looked at with that are
Covetous Dragon (defenetly better than Quicksilver, and there are enough artifacts around to make it good, but it's also just another piece that could go wrong)
Earthquake
Pyroclasm
Magma Jet
Flametounge KAvu
Fire Imp
Fire/Ice
Rift Bolt
Pyrite Spellbomb
I've tested the red splash far less, but on the surface it seems like something that could work out. Earthquake is maindeck card when aggro controlls the meta, but it defenetly makes the deck more random. The Covetous Dragon (thanks Kai Budde 1999 gold-border deck) has been great in the few games I've played it (I've been testing 2x in the main); the low count of artifacts hasn't been a problem. Nobody's played Meltdown on me yet though. Flametounge and Fire Imp were too situational. Fire/Ice seems great, and Magma Jet is better than il-Kor. Rift Bolt got cut, and the Spellbomb was never fetched, and I don't believe either have a place in the deck, but I'm keeping a couple of the former and one of the latter around just in case. Red does bring a possible main decker in Planar Chaos - Rough/Tumble. For those of you who don't know it, it looks like this:
Sorcery 1R/5R
Rough deals 2 damage to each creature without flying.
Tumble deals 6 damage to each creature with flying.
It deals with Goblins and the like without killing your guys but isn't dead against Exalteds and Avengers. I'll try it over Earthquake at some point.
I know I've committed to very little here, but I havn't seen too many posts that activly discussed off color cards for splashes, other than the Court Hussar example (which inspired my off color exploration), so at least I figure I've said something new. I'm going to keep working on these splashes, and may even give white a closer look at some point. On a random note, I like Silent Arbiter, but I also fear the Gempalm, and am hoping the splash will cover aggro. It seems like Faerie Stompy is one card or a slight modification away from Tier One, and even though the Sea Drake pricetag will limit the deck's appearences (I'm lucky to have bought mine shortly before they shot up in price), it has potential for even greater success than it has had.
If I find things that test as significant improvements, I'll post them. If anyone has tried splashes, or has any suggestions or comments for me, I'd appreciate them. I'll check back.
Peace out.
I've examined alternative colors in the past. The next best color seemed to be red. Check out the Dragon Stompy thread. There's some powerful options like Radkos Pitdragon, Rolling Earthquake, Flametongue Kavu, and Pyrostatic Pillar.
Looking at the new spoiler, Aquamorph is interesting. 4cc for a 5/1. Morph gives it added versatility. Plus, it's blue, unlike Juggernaut.
Many times, I've found my hand only having one fat which gets Sworded leaving me stuck unable to apply enough pressure fast enough and forced into a defensive role and losing. I've opted to cut weenies, Cloud of Faries, Sea Sprite, Looter il Kor for fat, Phyrexian War Beast, Juggernaut, SuChi, Synod Centurion.
I've been very happy with the change. My matchups versus goblins and angel stompy all seem to have improved with more fat. Plus the greater versatility of stuff to set Chalice at is really nice. Yes, I've had to run stuff like the Islandcylcer to keep the blue count up but it's been enough to feed FoW/Chrome Mox.
Prefacing such a build, I'm taking a look at this card below...
Veiling Oddity 3U
Creature - Illusion
Suspend 4 - Rather than play this card from your hand, you may pay and remove it from the game with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, play it without paying its mana cost. It has haste.)
When the last time counter is removed from Veiling Oddity while it's removed from the game, creatures are unblockable this turn.
Illus. Dave DeVries #51/165
2/3
Suspending this turn two lets you ensure you get in a lethal blow later on, even if they manage to stabilize with an army of weenies or Mystic Enforcer or something, which is usually how this deck loses versus aggro. Do you guys think it would be worth it esp with a eight more fat artifact creatures. Or does it sound too janky?