Sorry if somebody said it before, but, i try to use one storm entity in the case i have not enough mana (because of a chalice or a unlucky draw). I like it because it cost just 2cc and is ready to fight with its haste.
What do you think about it ?
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Sorry if somebody said it before, but, i try to use one storm entity in the case i have not enough mana (because of a chalice or a unlucky draw). I like it because it cost just 2cc and is ready to fight with its haste.
What do you think about it ?
I think about:
Swords to Plowshares and the missing of trample
Hello,
When do you play Meditate excactly?
I mean if you play it against control decks, because the loose a turn isn't that important, the card turns out to be very bad. You only get 2 cards advantage, because your opponent gets 2 draw phases. During Combo he is only a little better then Contract. They both are there to draw out a counter for 3 mana, only Meditate is easier to cast.
So what is the logic time to use Meditate.
Next to that I believe that Pyroblast is better than Xantid Swarm. First of all it kills of Meddling Mage and for 1 mana it can give storm +2 if your the opponent counters a spell and you blast back. I won games because of the counterwar gave me enough storm to go for a lethal Tendrils. At worst case they can add the storm count for 1 mana, because you can target any spell or permantent with it( unlike REB).
I'm thinking about removing the Meditate but have no idea what to put in the deck instead. A single Plunge looks silly.
For now my deck looks like Wastedlife's list with
MD
-1 Meditate
+1 Tendrils of Agony( making the double Tendrils plan more likely( I used to play alot of IGGy before EtW))
BB
I've recently gone back to a Bargain/Contract over Meditate. Meditate is better vs. Control but terrible vs. everything else. I normally use the draw 4's as set-up spells and it's hard to set-up and skip a turn. I agree with how good Pyroblasts are, I'm also testing Duress in those slots too I'm not sure which is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benie Bederios
I proxied this up to try and knock the rust off my storm skills, not having played in like two months. I think 7 protection spells might be a bit much. I also am not super happy with the draw4s but I don't have anything better to suggest. The deck feels like it wants one but not two; I do agree that Contract is a better fit than Meditate.
I'm happy with 2x Draw 4's. Although, I have 2 Duress maindeck and I'm thinking about going down to just 4 Chants for Protection. This leaves 2 open splots, potentially three if you only want one maindeck Infernal Contract or Cruel Bargain. Which is also under consideration. I want to add more acceleration, then again I'd like more consistancy.
EDIT: I just through in two Cabal Rituals over two Duress/Pyroblast after rereading the thread and noticed Goobafish's advice. It makes the draw 4's alot better, which helps with consistancy and is acceleration.
Personally, I think any Threshold player who lets you have 4 mana should be shot. So baiting Rituals should win you the game already, rather than fight over one with Pyroblast. Cabal Rits do so much for you, it's not even funny.
Not only do Cabal Rits build storm, and make a little acceleration, but also helps you accel into Bargains/Contracts, which help you recover on the resource war(s).
I like the new lists right now too. Resolving Brainstorm = Win on Turn 1.5, and so much more crap, as well as the classic 1st turn land, rit, Bargain.
I think 2 cabal rits and 2 draw 4's seems kind of random. They really aren't great alone. If you were to go the draw 4 route i would probably go up to 3 or maybe even 4 draw 4's and 4 cabal rituals. I have to say when i played the deck with 1/2 draw 4's and only dark rits they were always weka unless i had a dark ritual to go with them, but at the same time you want some other business spells besides your infernals and wishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
So how consistently do you get BBB to play 1 of your 2 Draw 4s, considering one of them isnt Meditate?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew77
And why would you waste a Ritual for it when you can just waste a Cabal Rit?
Also, Chants are enough to win. You hit 4 mana, EtW the fucker into oblivion. Threshold players are already wasting themselves into just keeping you off 4 mana. Least you could do is play Cabal Rit, after the resource war happens and just Contract with BB floating.
I don't get bbb consistantly. Thats why I have already dropped down to 1 infernal contract main and have even toyed with the idea of not playing any. The problem then is that you don't have enough draw and tutoring power. One of my recent lists ran 3 ssg, 2 xantid, 2 tinder walls and 1 draw 4. I wish I had more room but the 3 ssg will remain the same so i only have 5 slots to toy with. I will probably test 3 cabals and 2 draw 4's in place of the xantids and walls. Other than that i can attempt 4 nights whisper and add the 4th ssg, 3 whispers leaving 2 tinder walls/2 xantids, or just try something totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
edit:
I just did some testing and i have to say that 3 infernal contracts and 3 cabals works quite well, but you dont really have the room for them. At the same time i tested 2 and 2 and it works out better than i expected. I would say its much more consistant, especially if you can fit 3 draw 4's into the deck. They really havent proved clunky at all when running cabal rituals.
I did some more testing and i have to say 3 draw4's and 3 cabal rits are working great. I am running 2 etw and 3 ssg to make room but a turn 1 draw4 is so good against anything. The deck plays so much more aggresively with them. They are also quite good in almost all matchups when compared to plunges, and whatever other random protection or accel would be in those slots. 2 and 2 seems fine, but i think that the 3 draw 4's suits my style of play more.
It seems like we're thinking differently here. You want consistency, and still have a good control match up. I want to not only win the resource war against control, I also want to recover from the resource war and capitalize on thier exhaust, and just win as fast as possible.
I just finished 50 goldfishes with the 3 draw 4 3 cabal rit version and i have to say it is much more consistant than previous incarnations of the deck. 25 were on the play 25 on the draw. Anyway when i tried this with my previous list the deck fizzled/mulled to oblivion 6 times and tended to win on turns 2 and 3 mostly. When i say fizzled it only means it wasnt able to win by turn 4. sometimes you'l get great hands against control which dont win for a while but for the goblins and combo matchup you should be able to win by turn 4 if required. Anyway heres how the deck performed...
T1 kills- 16 (1 with protection)
T2 kills- 20 (7 with protection)
T3 kills- 10 (7 with protection)
T4 kills- 2 (1 with double chant protection)
Fizzle- 2 (one was a plain mull to oblivion, and the other just drew too many tutors, chants)
I have to say i'm very surprised by the turn one win percentage. I didn't expect it to be anywhere near that level, but a turn one draw 4 has the potential to be much more broken than a plunge. I still think that this might be a bit high when it comes to turn one kills, but the speed of the deck is insane. The turn 3 kills were almost all warrens kills and the turn two kills were usually fueled by a turn one draw 4, brainstorm, or tutor. I feel that this version definately deserves some testing against real decks. Anyway heres the list...
MD
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
2 undiscovered paradise
3 simian spirit guide
3 cabal ritual
4 rite of flame
2 infernal contract
1 cruel bargain
4 brainstorm
4 dakr ritual
4 lotus petal
4 chrome mox
4 lions eye diamond
4 burning wish
4 infernal tutor
1 ill gotten gains
1 dreturns
1 tendrils
2 empty the warrens
4 chant
SB
1 warrens
1 tendrils
1 ill gotten gains
1 dreturns
2 reb
2 pyroblast
1 cruel bargain
1 duress
1 hull breach
1 shattering spree
1 extract
1 goblin war strike
1 pyroclasm
I was even suprised you argued with me on the Cabal Rits and 4 Draws... and now you're running them.
Well my biggest problem with the Pyroblasts is, that they suck if i want to go over LED and haven`t got a chant. Then theyre just useless...So i think i will test duress too at the moment i think it`s better!
Greetings,
NQN
@ Andrew 77- I feel that 3/3 may be too many, after all the deck isn't based on Draw 4's. Think of the card as I do, a replacement for Plunge. This is where people get lost alot of the time. It's not a tutor card, infact you should probably never crack LED with Infernal and get Bargain/Contract. More importantly it's not a focal point in the deck, as draw 4's are in SI, the card might as well be Plunge into Darkness. If you draw the card, you draw the card. Don't go out of your way to play them, that seems bad, and a waste of resources.
Less than 4 SSG seems insane, it's free mana, another Lotus Petal almost. SSG and Cabal Ritual add the same amount of mana without Threshold, I don't see why you'd cut the one that's free for the one that costs two mana.
I don't base the deck on draw 4's by runnig 3/3. The advantage of this split is that you have a pretty good chance of having a draw 4 in your opening and with 3 cabal rits they are quite easy to cast. In my testing a turn one draw 4 usually leads to a t2 win if it resolves. The reason i actually tested 3/3 was because i really felt that 2 draw 4's without cabal rits were very clunky as i could hardly ever cast them and i never wanted to tutor for one. I am actually probably going to replace the one in the sb with sometihng else. Anyway I had 4 free slots and when i tested 2/2 it seemed way too random. I quickly dropped a ssg, which doesnt work well with the draw 4's, and a etw. Since doing so the 3/3 split has worked nicely. I played against a few thresh decks earlier and I went 4-5 in games against the u/g list and 5-1 against red thresh. The ug list is really nasty and preys on any weak draws you have. Xantid swarm would totally own it though. The red list is much easier to beat but pyroclasm can be quite annoying at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by wastedlife
I play from many months a decklist very similar to the list of andrew77 with the substitution of infernal contract with the classic plunge and some small variations on mana acceleration (4ssg are obligatory).
It's from june that I put xantid swarm in the attic and I use a playset of chants.
Now, I'll try the variation with infernal contracts. Thanks for the good idea.
I've only a question: why do some decklists contain reb instead of pyroblast?
In legacy there aren't many misdi and pyroblast doesn't prevent our hellbent like an horrible reb. It's only for the meddling that some people use reb instead of pyroblast? (I continue to use 2 defense grid in sb against control; I think that it's a card understimate in some metagame).
im changing the pyroblasts and reb's to xantid swarms for now since there is way too much u/g thresh online. I see it so much more often than red or white thresh, and they just can't do anything against a resolved xantid.
What do you think about the use of a plan B in side?
Like 3 Tombstalker or 3 Tarmogoyf n side?
If my opponent doesn't see in g1 any critters usually he side out StP or others removals, so perhaps cards like Tombstalker can be a good choice. or not?
I this case, why not storm entity ?Quote:
What do you think about the use of a plan B in side?
Like 3 Tombstalker or 3 Tarmogoyf n side?
If my opponent doesn't see in g1 any critters usually he side out StP or others removals, so perhaps cards like Tombstalker can be a good choice. or not?