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I've been playing the deck a bit lately and it just seems supersoft against merfolk. It might be them drawing lucky, but its really quite difficult to stabilize versus them. Any sideboard suggestions? I'm currently running 3 terminus/4 swords/1 shackles/3 snapcasters main.
Timely reinforcements doesn't seem like it'd do enough--it buys 1 extra turn as the blockers are mostly irrelevant. Nodes seems a bit too slow versus them as they tend to shit out their hand quite quickly.
I play both decks, and what you always want is a jace or even better elspeth.
Only equipment hate will not do it.
CB also not the best card against stoneblade.
So if I would name:
1. Eslpeth
2. Jace
3. clique, peacekeeper, disenchant, explosives
4. I don't think manriki gusari is a good sideboard card.
edit: concerning merfolk, it is a bad matchup and there is not much we can do, beside playing peacekeeper, moat, humility, PTEs, wrath of god, EEs,....
here the stoneblade version shines, since batterskull or jitte is very hard to handle for merfolk.
I've tried most of these:Quote:
peacekeeper, moat, humility, PTEs, wrath of god, EEs
peacekeeper = killable now w/ dismember
moat = slow and can be played around w/ coralhelm commanders
humility = slow and 2-3 turns of 3 1/1's is still a lot of damage
PTE = accelerates them;
wrath of god = too slow and cursecatcher-able
EE isn't too bad in my experience though. At 2, it hits almost all of the relevant things, except for the vial. However, its too little too late a lot of the time.
Vedalken Shackles. Wins alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
You need to land it. Sometimes after you cast it, they just outright kill you because you are a turn slow. Also, everyone should be running 4 terminus md and some ee's in the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Shackles seems good if you can land it early. I'd play 1 max. A mix of terminus and ee seems to be the answer against folk. Also try to max out your Snapcasters. 2 for ones are fantastic.
Against Stoneblade some mixture of disenchants, cliques and more walkers/entreat. The more bombs the better. Disenchant is fantastic here because it's flashbackable even if they counter it.
He asked specifically for a card that hoses Stoneblade hard, and it's really difficult that Stoneblade gets to kill you the turn after you've landed Shackles-unless you're so low of life or he has so swarmed with multiple Lingering Souls that you would have died anyways. Of course, you should aim to land it both protected and when you have at least the opportunity to activate it immediately, although it's not really always required.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
I've played my fair games against Stoneblade and I can ensure that a resolved Shackles alone will at worst stall their ground for several turns, making them decide whether to slam their Snapcaster or Spirit tokens against themselves. Esperblade utterly suffers it if doesn't see it coming, i.e. does not board Disenchants. Which will be done anyways because of Counterbalance, so you should be careful and save Spell Snares.
The point is that Shackles blocks the only card that makes them resiliant to Terminus, which is Lingering Souls. They can run around Terminus slowrolling single Mystics and Batterskulls, but that's where you're more comfortable in plowing. Spot+mass removal plus huge ground staller makes it hard for them to go through; Entreat the Angels finishes the job.
There is no need to re-invent the wheel. The majority of this decks lifespan, before Terminus, was under Merfolks rule. A lot of time was spent developing the deck to deal with Merfolk.
Wasteland is fantastic since it deals with Mutavault. It also deals with Cavern.
This deck should be fine at stabilizing early with 4 StP 4 Terminus, but you can run some more efficient spot removal if you still need help.
Shackles and/or Peacekeeper are the lock. Both dodge Cursecatcher. They run no artifact removal, and at most, 4 Dismember (often less). You have countermagic to protect Peacekeeper, and you can always stick a 2nd one if you have to. Terminus is fantastic at turning games around, and Entreat midgame for 2 Angels is a massive roadblock.
Fitting in a single Shackles MD would a good idea if Merfolk beclmes big again, sinceit forces aggro decks to overcommit, which plays right into Terminus (with a 2nd copy in SB).
If you're still having problems, run SFM/Batterskull in the SB. Toss in a Jitte too, and you're Merfolk and Goblins matchups should be covered.
Hanni, I'm still unconvinced to pick up Miracle control but you almost sold it to me. Can you give a comparison between Stoneblade and Miracle control based on the meta for pros and cons? Why do you think it is a better pick than Stoneblade?
Against Stoneblade:
Elspeth
Shackles
mini-jace (assuming you have 4 big jace)
V-Clique
Vs maverick you have an easy matchup and the RUG mu is also ok. That's the only reason I can think of, stoneblade has an easier matchup vs goblins/merfolk/ur delver/burn and esperblade vs reanimator/combo. Depending on CB main or sb the combo matchup is also good for miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
And I really don't believe that merfolk is a good/easy matchup even postboard it is 50/50 or worse. Maybe I am wrong.
Picking it up or not, you need a lot of practice and also need to play it fast since you don't want to draw. It does tricky things and also use top often, you need to know what you want to do and decide asap.
Reading this thread I always think that I'd rather have Batterskull, Jitte on my side against aggro instead of Terminus and I'd rather have Thoughtseize+SCM on my side rather than Counterbalance against combo.
that's why I will run esperblade in gent and not uw miracle. ;-) psssst don't tell anyone.
@Julian: I played with Nodes in my sideboard this weekend. I was surrounded by Stoneblade all day, so I only ended up siding it in once all day (against Goblins). Nodes was good in testing against RUG and Maverick, because it eliminated Goose and Mom without having to target them. I think it's a good marginal addition to a removal suite that has something like 4 Swords, 2-3 Snapcaster, 3-4 Terminus, and 1-2 Path, because it is basically a sacrifice effect that gets around shroud/protection effects. If you're expecting Stoneblade, I would rather have Shackles or Elspeth over Nodes (I know this from being on the Stoneblade side of the match, and getting wrecked by those cards). You should beat Stoneblade almost every game that you can get Counterbalance active.
Also, Nodes seems more optimal when it's in your opening hand and you're higher on life. It felt like a card that kills your opponent's tempo for a few turns and lets you hit a few land drops. A lot of times your opponent still manages to get one more hit in. So, it's not always good to see whenever you're behind and never seems that awesome late game.
That's the problem with running only one. I'd prefer to have an early Nodes against just as many or more decks than I'd like a Counterbalance, which seems good against only RUG imo... I may start testing UW miracle Nodes soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC27
How does that work? Coralhelm can't play around moat.... He loses all his abilities, and is just a 1/1 dude with a bunch of level counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot
I believe you are confusing it with Humility.
Hah. Ironic perspective from the Blade threat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
Bah your right :( LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
In other news, so far I'm liking Cunning Wish as the swiss knife card over Oblivion Ring.
What all are you running in your board for the wish? All I have right now that I could get is Surgical, Disenchant and BEB. I'm interested to see what other options you put in there and how much space they take upQuote:
Originally Posted by sarapfish
2 surgical extractionQuote:
Originally Posted by Pherion
2 path to exile
2 flusterstorm
2 disenchant
2 enlightened tutor
1 tormod's crypt
1 relic of progenitus
1 humility
2 pithing needle
Reid Duke won an SCG Invitational Qualifier with a Land Tax / Miracle list. Seemed interesting. Did he play a similar list at the GP in Atlanta?
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...2&iddeck=63500
Yes he did. And Ian placed top 32 with it,Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC27
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...6&iddeck=63251
Hm, strange lists. Wouldn't have though Mox-Diamond-less Land Tax featuring EtA/Jace could work..
Daze is a nice fit and Zuran Orb is entertaining, but.. well 905 players is an argument in favor of that pile :-)
These lists are really interesting, in fact I like everything except the whole Land Tax thing LOL... just feels awkward to me.
Anyway, some questions about the sideboards some of you might be able to help me with:
- What's Baneslayer for? When do we really need a bomb that bad?
- Envelop really? Counter target sorcery!? How is the even useful?
It costs 1 mana, and cannot be Missdirected when countering a Sorcery due to lack of other targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherion
Baneslayer chump blocks Griselbrand like a pro (Protection from Demons), and provides a good life gain outlet against aggro decks. I believe a fair number of people side out spot removal against our deck.
I guess, but as a 1 of it just feels lacking. 1 mana is pretty awesome, but it just feels like I'd prefer a different thing there. Half the time post board Sneak and Show is going for Sneak Attack anyway - siding this in means you've got something that counters the SnT, but what if they just hard cast the SA? Wouldn't you rather have spell pierce or BEB?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Point taken. :) Dono if I'd use her for this, but I like the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC27
I certainly would. =]Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherion
You asked how it was usefull. That's the only reason I can think of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac
Quote:
Max Sjöblom @thebloom_
Lost what I thought was the best matchup to some unfortunate draws #gpghent
EDIT: I also remember seeing in the coverage and he had CB-lock going so I was surprised to find out he had lost.
He postet at Twitter:
Happens. Even if you have a 90:10 matchup, it means that you lose 10% of your games. Well, unfortunately that was one of them.Quote:
Max Sjöblom @thebloom_
Lost what I thought was the best matchup to some unfortunate draws #gpghent
You should ask him why he kept Force, Counterspell + 5 Lands against a beatdown deck. Game2 he couldn't handle Gaddock Teeg.
On top of that, Lukas is very likely the best Elves player in the world. And I stand by that.
Bonus story: Marc Vogt with in 9th place (Miracles) went undefeated over the entire tournament, only receiving a match loss for a 12-1-3 finish.
Been reading this thread for a while and thought it was worth registering to post some thoughts about the top 8.
For those interested in the short version: my draws were pretty awkward and I lost.
I analysed the games a bit with some of my friends afterwards, so here is the longer version:
Game 2 I mulliganed into fetch, fetch, STP, CB, Clique and Entreat (a fine six carder). I played STP on his Arbor (from Zenith) and turn two CB. The blind flip missed on Llanowar Elves + Quirion Ranger. On turn three I played Top leaving open Tundra + Fetch. My opponent played Ezuri with Cradle untapped, and I used Top and fetch + Top but didn't see a three mana spell (or STP/Terminus/FOW). My opponent then played GSZ for two in the same turn, getting Gaddock Teeg. This left me basically drawing STP or Karakas from a couple of unknown cards, which I did not. I don't think I could have played the game much differently to win it.
Game 1 on the other hand, could have turned out very differently had I mulliganed. I felt pretty confident about the matchup and thought the most likely way I would lose was if my opponent just combo killed me in the early game. As someone posted, my hand was Counterspell, FOW and five lands. A mulligan to six would probably have been better (but not necessarily). I drew a Top in the early game but after using Top three times with two fetch land activations in between, all I saw was: two lands + Entreat, three lands and three lands. The most crucial play decision was whether to play Entreat in combat for X=1, or with until next turn to play it for X=4. X=1 left me drawing one of roughly 16 outs, while X=4 needed my opponent to have two lands in two unknown cards (as to not untap Nettle Sentinel).
Feel free to critique me for keeping that hand or playing in a certain way, but it's worth realizing that the hand was probably better than you think ("five lands is crap, how can you ever keep that?!"). I'm not afraid of mulliganing when it counts (for example going to five twice against Belcher earlier in the tournament to try and find FOW), so it was not a case of just keeping any hand I came across.
The matchup is probably a bit closer than I thought (not quite 90/10), but I still feel it's pretty favorable. You really need to draw some of your good cards (which you have quite a lot of), and you really need to hit Terminus at some point in the game to win (unless you play Top into CB and just lock them out).
I am back from Ghent too, didn't do too well, but not bad either. Here's my list:
//Lands
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Karakas
2 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
//Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
//Other Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
//Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Sideboard
2 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Humility
2 Peacekeeper
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Surgical Extraction
I went to a Trial on Friday and played:
Aggro Loam 2-0
Terminator (Julian23) 2-0
Elves 2-0
Merfolk 2-0
BUG Control 2-1
So I got Byes for the GP and my list was posted at the Coverage :)))
GP:
Bye 2-0
Bye 2-0
Bye 2-0
UR Delver 0-2
Canadian Threshold 0-2
Cephalid Breakfast 0-2
The Rock 2-0
Merfolk 2-0
TempoZoo 2-0
Going to a 6-3. Not too good, but not bad either, atleast for my first GP.
I talked to serveral guys playing Terminator throughout the weekend, for example the Italian Landstillmiracle-player who stayed in the same hotel was we did. We played a few rounds and talked about out decks, differences, disadvantages and so on. I did this with all people I could catch who played a different type of Terminator. In the end I think I've seen this sub-types:
1) Straight UW Terminator with Counterbalance
2) UWr Terminator
2.1) with Counterbalance
2.1) with Engineered Explosives (MB)
3) UWb Terminator
3.1) with Counterbalance
3.2) with Thoughtseize (MB)
3.3) with Engineered Explosives (MB)
4) Terminator with Standstill and Mishra's Factory
I believe Red to be very strong, as REBs were best all weeekend long. But I am not sure about Counterbalance being a Mainboard-card. I might play EE alongside 1 or 2 Academy ruins and move the Counterbalance to the side. In addition to this I think that a 4th Planeswalker may be necessary. Maybe Elspeth. I might move the 4th Terminus to the side too.
Greetings
Thanks for your input. Gratz for winning that trial!Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Interesting to see that all your losses were to archetypes CB Top actually shines, once you got rid of their first 2 guys - yet you want to cut CB. I think at least 2 CBs should remain in the MD. 2 maindecked EE + A. Ruins looks good though.
Terminus #4 is a SB card for sure - agreed.
How did Cliques perform? I think without CB you don't have the resources to protect them - so cutting them for another SCM and 1 EE looks good on paper.
Thoughts on Peacekeeper? I haven't been doing much testing lately, but I'm doubting his power atm - mainly due to Griselbrand, G. Incinerators etc. still functioning. Not sure, whether 2 Humilities is the correct call either. I strongly recommend at least 1 PtE for the fast Aggro MUs.
Edit: Here's a list I'd go with.
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
5 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins
[23]
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterbalance
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
[37]
//Sideboard
1 Terminus
2 Disenchant
2 Counterbalance
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Path to Exile
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Surgical Extraction
Hey Philipp, how did the Merfolk matches go for you?
REB+SCM = boss, I assume :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
Merfolk? Well preboard it is tough. If they have the god-hand you can't do anything. But in general I'd say its 50/50 preboard, and postboard with red 55/40, once you have Peacekeeper even better. So in general a even to slightly negative if you do not have red, if you do its even to positive.
EDITED LIST:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard:
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Peacekeeper
2 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Humility
1 Terminus
1) Why Peacekeeper? As mentioned, I didn't lose a single tribal-MU that weekend. Due to Peacekeeper.
2) Why no Vendilion Cliques? Because I disliked them for quite a while. Yes this slows this deck down even more, but we will have to deal with it.
Greetings
Cutting Clique looks feasible to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
3 EE (not good with CB) and 2 Ruins appears excessive though. I'm pretty sure now that 3rd EE should be V. Shackles (I've replaced that lone Clique with Shackles in the post above).