Anything short of 4 blood moons in my mind is UR painter or the like (I.e., another deck and thread).
At that point I would play show and tell something.
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Anything short of 4 blood moons in my mind is UR painter or the like (I.e., another deck and thread).
At that point I would play show and tell something.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
Those thoughts on the white splash are about right. I always go back and forth if I want to tutor up hate against storm or just go for the combo. I think since they really bring in x copies of abrupt decay that I would rather just have more combo elements but I have basically not played legacy in a while. I would recommend a peacekeeper if you play white. It has some benefits over Bridge. The fact that it isn't an artifact is actually important. It can stop Empty the Warrens and elves much better than Bridge. And you have more tutor for it which basically means you have five copies of it. Not sure it is the right one for the main deck, but it should be in the 75 as one of your Bridge effects.
@Kap- you're thoughts on the sideboard were really good. I took my snow day and did some testing. I still am a little scared of not having seven blast effects but I like the options the new board leaves.
4 rip
1 Helm of Obedience
1 stone forge
1 jitte
1 SoLS
4 Fireblast
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Goblin Welder
I will be posting my full list before this weekend as I will be playing in the Bmore SCG open. About the board, it's constructed around expecting to see Jace.dec, delver variants, and the Stoneforge is there to combat fair decks. During my testing when Jund was played I realized that SoLS was really strong in those type of match ups. Jitte players great under Bridge and the versatility to have the options to have both in the side along with allowing Recruiter to also tutor for them is a huge plus. Alone with adding some much needed card advantage it tested great today. I think everyone should try the Firebolt if they are playing removal. It really is better than lightning bolt right now.
I am going to stay out of the discussions of the mono red from now on, but I will say the speed of five fast mana cards has been great. And all versions should probably move towards that. I have adopted Kaps 3/2 split. You will occasionally lose the ability to FOW your opponent and catch them with their pants down with a daze but overall the extra effects are worth the small commitment.
So who will be at the SCG open this weekend?
Seth
I meant Firebolt not Fireblast. I'm an idiot. And that sideboard should be credited to Kapn
Seth
Not quite, because UR Painter didn't run Recruiters.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Edit: Nevertheless, if you have a few Burn decks in your meta, I'd find space in the sideboard for Pyrite Spellbomb, Salvagers and a LED. All tutorable, and Salvagers needs to be double-bolted to be killed. Or just Leyline of Sanctity. *shrug*
I spent quite a few hours of testing with the R/w list over the weekend and I think I'd rather convert my two E-tutors in two extra MD bridges (for a total of 3) like jandax suggests. I think bridge can win game 1 on its own in many match-ups. The only downside is the inability of tutoring up Grindstone, but I've rarely found myself doing this anyway. Most of the time I would just want to tutor up a lock piece and win the game from there.
The white splash ended up hurting me in the following ways:
- Not able to cast e-tutor because of no white source drawn
- Not able to cast e-tutor because of blood moon
- Vulnerability to wasteland because of non-basic coloured sources
In the end, the deck just felt less consistent to me than it used to be, so I'd rather just be Mono-R.
Too bad I won't be running my nice new FBB plateau at the GP :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by japz
These are all known issues and downsides associated with the white splash. There are many upsides not listed but it's not worth explaining again.
@Jandax
I'll rework the lists part of my opening post to include your variant. I will combine my list with Seth's to further go over the white splash and make the old one mono-red
edit: made additional changes to the front pages of the thread.
I definitely agree that a list such as Jandax's should be considered the new main deck core for mono red.
Btw: main deck koth is insane! Played 2 miracle matches last weekend and he was the MVP!
@jandax: I boarded in the 3rd magus every match. A will never take out the 3 bridges from the MB, but I sided them out almost every game. This was just how my pairings went. Miracles, ANT, Lands, Esperblade, and a couple other matches I can't remember.
I just like access 7 moon effects to slam early in some matchups. I never want to lose a match where moon is the best card.
Also, after the earlier discussions about the Miracles matchup here I was able to win the matchup. Moons were great, and Baiting counters to stick a koth was just absurd. In game 3 I slow rolled a koth until I saw a Jace land across from me (bout turn 5). Slam koth! Man-up to beat Jace feels pretty strong. Was also able to bait and fish for information feeling pretty confident that Koth would stick at that point.
As for the Rw vs Mono R debate. IMO it's still totally personal preference. Each has its strengths and draw backs. If you look back at earlier posts it's discussed pretty heavily. I currently prefer the mono R painter variant. I also have a bit of experience with UR painter... It's a completely... COMPLETELY different deck. And has an incredible matchup vs SnT (if that's heavily played in your meta).
Looking forward to seeing the front page updated.
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Hey kap'n, maybe you can copypasta this to amend the deck list entry on the front page:
A.) Control Decks:
(Applies to: Miracles, Stoneblade, Landstill, Shardless BUG/BUG Control, etc.)
All of these decks, except Miracles, leans heavily on Basic lands, making Blood Moon good. They all have reasonable stacks of removal but by large they're looking to go to the red zone to end the game. Otherwise, they'll try to Jace you, for which you have mad blasts and Koth. Bridge becomes better here because it allows you to play the draw go game to either assemble a hand to combo off with protection or you simply start nugging them with Jaya under a bridge. I feel good in these matchups. Stoneblade, however, can be problematic. They have hand disruption and counters, and Wasteland. Koth and Bridge are also boss in any situation, that could also be another out.
B.) Tempo Decks:
(Applies to: Team America, RUG Tempo/Canadian Threshold, UWr Delver, Merfolk, etc.)
Again, Blood Moon is great here. They are assuredly attacking for the win so Bridge is also nuts. UWr Delver is a tough matchup though. They have lots of counters, lots of spot removal, but are mostly dead to a resolved Bridge or Blood Moon. They can also operate on Blood Moon mana because they have Grim Lavamancers often enough. Watch out for Meddling Mage out of the board.
C.) Aggressive Creature Decks:
(Applies to: Zoo, Goblins, Burn, etc.)
Tough matchups. Mulligan to a Bridge or fast combo but be prepared for a removal in response to the Stone ability. Sweepers are nice, and Blood Moon isn't so strong here.
D.) Midrange Creature Decks:
(Applies to: Maverick, Junk, B/x Discard, Death & Taxes, Jund, Nicfit, etc.)
While they utilize more basics than most, Moons are good because their non basics are utility lands vital to their own strategies. They're also attacking for the win, so Bridges shine. A lot easier than the aggressive creature decks because they're slower and you have inevitability.
E.) Small Creature Combo Decks:
(Applies to: Elves, Painter Servant, Dredge, etc.)
Tough, but winnable. Elves isn't the match for a Grindstone kill, as somewhere in the 75 they likely have Progenitus or Emrakul. I can't speak for the mirror but you play the deck too, so just try to out draw them and stay ahead.
F.) Big Creature/Show and Tell Combo Decks:
(Applies to: OmniShow, Sneak & Show, Reanimator, etc.)
Tough. Here's why you preboard bridges. Here's why your alternate wincons are main deck.
G.) Combo Decks:
(Applies to: ANT, TES, High Tide, etc.)
Slap a Thorn down first thing and know your matchup. Get a painter down too to counterblast their important spells and then mill them.
H.) Prison Decks:
(Applies to: MUD/Stax/Chalice Aggro/Lands, etc.)
Just kill them fast. Chalices will be annoying If you play against Lands, just rejoice and windmill slam a Blood Moon but realize they run Mox Diamond and can operate under a Moon, so Revoker usually names Mox then the second names Engeneered Explosives. They do play basics, but you should have ample time to go off from there. Bridge should stay in against Lands because they're likely going to Thespian's Stage->Dark Depths EoT. Otherwise it is a long, dull matchup if they get Punishing Fire/Grove online.
The Sideboard
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Martyr of Ash
1 Manic Vandal
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Sideboarding Guide
A)Using your best judgement, the first thing I would side out are Moons for the decks running ample basic lands. In come your Revokers, and a Vandal for their artifacts. I'd shave a Magus, too, and bring in the Koth. They will likely burn the first one out, so a back up has always been good to me.
B)Moons are hot, so is the main deck. Sudden Demise will kill Nimble Mongoose should they get one down before you can plop a Moon on the table. Revokers are also good, but there's not much from the main deck I'd want to shave. You can drop your Koths for extra Blast/Demise/Bridge/Revokers. the Maindeck is geared to cover these bases so there's not much to it really.
C) Out go koth, in go the extra Bridge and Demise. You can sweep a whole board with a Painter out. Mulligan to a Bridge, or a good control hand, and keep casting spells they need to deal with to eat up their resources. Against Burn, side out all four Moons, Magus can still block stuff, for a Bridge, Demise, and two Revokers (for Lavaman, Hellspark Elemental, stuff)
D) Maindeck is good here. Use your best judgement to what you need to supplement your MD with from the sideboard. Shave cards for what you bring in, I would't side out a whole set of cards.
E) Elves: In 1 Bridge 1 Demise 4 Cage Out 1 Koth 5 Moon/Magus. Welders keep your stuff in play when they go for a Viridian Shaman or whatever. Cages are awesome here, as they stop GSZ, Fetch for Dryad, and Natural Order. Cast multiple copies of your artifacts because it'll suck to have them destroy your one bridge and then Craterhoof for the win.
Mirror: Side out Moons for Revokers and a Vandal.
Dredge: Moons for Cages. Mull to get one.
F) Maindeck is also suited for the matchups. Supplement MD with sideboard cards by shaving MD cards to your best judgement.
G) Moons out for Thorns and a Revoker or two. Revoker LED or Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal. Blast their cantrips or hold on to them if you have a Painter out, for their tutors.
H) Race. Revokers are good here, and Manic Vandal is too. Moons might be useful on the play against their Sol lands. Revoker should name Metalworker first, as the deck tends to accelerate into their business. Bridges are good, and try to get PS/Blasts online so they can't pull any Spine of Ish Sha shenanigens. Their welder's will need a dealing with, so Jaya becomes better and better. Revoker can shut them down until you get an answer for them, but your own welders can act in response to things as well, don't forget.
Just wanted to point out that elves is much more likely to have Progenitus over Emrakul since Progenitus can be found by their tutors. Also you can grindstone kill vs one Progenitus... (Progenitus will be the only card in their deck so an extra draw step.) However if they have more then one the game auto draws if you try the combo. Lucky though more then one is the exception not the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Against elves, I would definitely keep moon in on the play, resolving turn one moon means auto-win.
I still doubt if bridge is great in this match up. If they only hold NO in hand, I think bridge is good. If they go off with glimpse of nature, they just draw a bunch of cards and find millions of ways to deal with it (shaman+symbiote, or abrupt decay post board). I think bridge can only buy some time in some situations, you definetely cannot count on it exclusively.
Both of you are right. But there are elves players in my area that like to run all the Emrakuls and Proggy's, and are mono G. Bridge buys time and is another thing they have to deal with. I mean look, if we nut draw them the game is ours, but if they nut draw us there's little hope outside a Glimpse fizzling. That bit can be amended, as it seems that most American legacy elves decks are of the non-basic variety, where I wholy agree that Moon, especially on the play, is quite good.
In most lists (at least mid atlantic) and from what I've seen elsewhere too, Emrakul has been replaced by Craterhoof Behemoth.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
As for bridge. Jandax is 100% correct. Play the combo game, bridge buys us time. Assume no Emrakul unless you know different.
Also, we have many answers to a removal of bridge. Another bridge, Goblin Welder, and counterspell via red blast. Just because a deck has a narrow answer to bridge doesn't make it less good. Thats like not playing a Thorn because storm can bounce it.
Is there a good way for mono-red painter to answer Miracles w/ RIP + Helm? I played a guy yesterday that was able to combo on me pretty consistently.
The only answers I can seem to find to RIP is Nevinyrral's Disk or something like Sylvok Replica or Wispmare which require color splash. Maybe even Liquimetal Coating and artifact destruction.
Yeah, Revoker is great against miracles in general so thats a fine option.
Ya, thats what I was trying, but it kept getting killed by StP or Terminus. I also wasn't sure weather to name SDT or Helm with the revoker.Quote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_
I just realized ratchet bomb on 2 could wipe out RIP.
Has anyone tried out Anarchy in the sideboard?
Hollywood use to use Anarchy back say five plus years ago. It worked as a great reset button that he could control. Although I don't think you should use it against miracles. Your combo should be faster, you generate more mana, and run as many counters to their counters as should be needed. The combo is realistically a fifth turn at best combo. Learning when and how to force your pieces through in the match up May be your best strategy. Moon while not great can still be really strong against them. They need their fetches. And welder and painter should be enough to overwhelm their removal and counters.
Seth
I was thinking about this matchup, and it's possible an early Grindstone is really strong. They normally run just one Helm, right? Well, it's no news that they're a better control deck than we are, so in the control vs control matchup, it's pretty dismal. So my thoughts are this: Since they only run one Helm, maybe an extra in the board, it's best to get a Stone out early and when they land CB/Top or Enlightened Tutor for the Helm, you are in control of the top of their deck. That's a huge advantage against them, as it is one of thier strengths (Top controls CB and it neuters their E.Tutor package).
I won a miracles game by slow milling the helm away. It is miserable... But it can be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
For that matchup... Just try to fast combo them and/or jam a koth. Blood moon isn't a lock, but can significantly slow them down.
I don't think there's a straightforward way to win this matchup unless you jam an early koth. Otherwise it's usually a grindy back and forth match with them usually feeling ahead.
I like Jandax's idea of the early grindstone... It also serves as a "I have half my combo, you better keep somthing up to deal with painter".
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I think this is probably a decent plan, but one issue is if they E.Tutor for the Helm, then you try to grind it away, they can activate Top to move the helm down to the 3rd card to save the Helm, or even activate the Top's second ability to get the Helm into their hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
The guy I was playing did admit that he had some pretty sketchy hands when I played the blood moon or Revoker on Top but still managed to win 5 of 6 games, all using RIP/Helm.
I think Chalice of the Void on 2 may actually be a good sideboard addition. It only counters revoker and painter in our deck, but those can still come in via welder. It will counter RIP, Counterbalance, and Snapcaster in this particular matchup.
I really want to play Chalice in this deck, too. But I wouldn't alter the deck to shore up one matchup. That is if Miracles/Helm is popular in your area, you got stuff do combat it.
In the end, there are several factors you need to remember:
They're a better control deck (CB/Top, blue draw spells and counters, white removal)
CB can shut us down pretty easily.
Their combo costs seven mana to our six.
That said, we have tools to combat their weaknesses and shore up against its strengths. It's a grindy match at best, over in 10 minutes at worst. Not much fun, but I'm pretty sure all the Delver decks are keeping the archetype in check so it's not much to fret about.
You should bring in Revokers and name Top first, Second name Helm. There top is better then ours, and shutting that down is priority number one. Priority number two is not letting them stick a counterbalance. It's still a grind but cutting them off of Top + keeping counterbalance off the table should get you where you need to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by NormalGuy
Edit: Also Miracles has such a slow clock. Put the pressure on them, and make them respond to you. Imperial Recruiter means that Terminus is a speed bump not removal vs us. One strategy is to Recruit more Recruiters, meaning that there Terminus is going to be weak. Recruiter is not much of a body... but he can get the job done if left unchecked.
Please please please do not try chalice in this deck. That is a terrible idea. And early grindstone will not allow you to control the top deck of a competent player on a miracles list. They have brainstorm and SDT so you may get a random mill, but you will not be able to control what they do. Trying as such is an episode in futility.
If you are playing a good opponent with miracles the recruiter chain is a great plan until they drop a Batterskull. Koth is your best friend in the match up and Moon effects are still really strong as cutting them off double blue is still really important. Stopping Counterbalance is really important as you need to be able to cut on your counter magic being cheaper than theirs. If you try and out control those decks you will lose to a competent player. I suspect this is why you are struggling when using Jandax's list. His has transitioned away from the more fluid builds to a control deck that flourishes in an aggro heavy meta. Your board should then include some spells to allow you to focus more on the combo and increasing resilency in those match ups if you are using his list. It is unlikely you can add enough control to out control a true blue control deck.
Just my 2 cents, which nobody seems to listen to anymore.
Seth
I already said more than once that this deck is a weaker control deck in the matchup. And I was just musing on some ideas, because I think I've played all of one Miracles match with the deck and lost hard. It's not fair to say no one is listening especially when you haven't replied to the Miracles/Helm question in the first place. Recruiter chaining may indeed make the most sense, you need to add 2 cents more often...
If you want to try and out control them I would recommend adding Viashino Heretic to your board. It beats one of their win conditions and will actually allow you to control their SDT which is huge. That and a third Welder should allow you to get over the top. Koth is still the tits against anything running Jace. I also recommend people try out equipment configurations. Without the white splash you should probably run Jitte is all metas unless it's infested with NiC Fit style decks.
My version of the deck is middle of the road in its 60 and when I sideboard a general strategy would be to remove either the control or aggro component for games 2 and 3. This allows you to focus your strengths to attack the various decks. Starting off with a more control she'll makes this a little more difficult but Equipment is also really good against Miracles as you don't have to commit cards for board strength. And they will still be there after the removal is played.
@ Jandax- I wasn't talking to you with the 2 cents comment. Just the thread in general and the source in general really. People don't think and try things anymore. They expect someone to give them the answers and think all answers posted are the right ones. I give you credit for testing and modifying a deck that I have spent the better part of nearly six years testing and tweaking. You maximized it for your meta which is what everyone should do. I recommend everyone on this board and thread to google mtg the dojo. It's old and the posts from 1996-1997 really focus on a time when shit like Maro was a standard all star, but the fundamental strategy and discussions are really informative as the internet and sharing of ideas was in its infancy. The strategy and fundamentals could really help most people to this day about how to approach the game, deck construction, sideboard ink, and meta gaming along with an amazing article( maybe the only truly none dick baggy thing) mike Flores wrote called who is the beat down.
Seth
I actually wrote for a Dojo sister site back in the day, I forget the name. That'd be hilarious to dig up. It was an MTG News column, and at the time my resources were before Google and when Scrye/Inquest was in print :laugh:
It wasn't news and I was way in over my head.
And I know you didn't direct that at me, but you gotta realize others realize that it's easier to ask for an answer than go out and find it out for yourself.
So after reading many of the recent posts I felt like this post is needed. It is related to Painter but it also really is about Magic in general and what you need to do and be able to do if you want to win. Now I’ll never say I am a good player, but I have the fortune of playing Magic for a very long time at this point. At this point it is entirely likely that I have played this deck longer with more hours spent with it than anyone else. SO sometimes I apologize if I’m a little short when people make comments are suggestions about the deck that have been tested, explored, or take it in a direction that I know will not lead to success.
I now need to address the notion of saying the deck plays the control role. I do this as much as anyone else and its lazy from a game theory standpoint to say bc the deck doesn’t really ever play a control role. Moon effects are really a prison type element. I’ll use Vintage as a good example. Much like workshop decks, Moon cuts off resources, in this case the correct colored mana, and in that way it can “control” certain elements of the game. Ensnaring Bridge is the same thing as it “controls” combat, but even with these cards we aren’t controlling the game really, just locking out certain parts so that we can employ our own means to victory. Much like Vintage shop decks, they lock down resources then swing with any number of dudes they do. Painter’s “control” elements function in much the same way. So I think people should look at it in a more prison sense. So if you want to modify the build think more about elements to lock out resources. My advice would be to try and find cards that augment this strategy, although as I will not later I think this is in general a bad idea.
Painter is a fun deck and it is a versatile deck. But at its core it is a combo deck. The thing it does best is combo out games. Pure and simple. As I noted above it can play prison elements, although usually not as strong a strategy in this deck as the combo elements( Variance, which I address in detail later, sometimes makes the prison elements stronger than anything else, but don’t worry I will address it). We shouldn’t use agro when we talk about the deck bc the beat down plan is more reactive to a clear board state and a lack of ability to combo at this time. At no point is Painter a true aggro deck or plan like Zoo was years ago. Currently there is no aggro deck in Legacy. We do the beat down plan as a means to an end but you should never open up your first seven cards and keep the hand thinking I’m on the beat down plan. (Aside, one of the first lists Hollywood built was with 3 Figure of Destiny and 3 SoLS. I can not remember if this predated goyf, but I would say that deck could be said to have a true aggro plan as FoD scaled beautifully at the time and was a truly aggressive creature. With the Equipment you could play the deck in a manner where you were committing resources to the board and using your man to directly attack you opponents life total from the begging. Currently there is nobody’s version that actually is configured in this way. I suspect that there is a possible way to build the deck for a given meta where this is still possible. But with the increase in strength of creatures over the past five years this seems like a basically wasted idea as we could never scale the deck without losing its other elements. So itr may still exist but I suspect if you found it it would be like running Burn, and overall shitty idea that is basically just a waste of your entrance fee. )
I will be happy to address the fact that the combo aspect of the deck is the strongest and the others avenues we have are very watered down compared to other decks with those strategies, but now I want to address Variance as it directly ties into this being a Combo deck first and foremost. The strongest card in Legacy is probably LED or Adnausseum. The reason storm doesn’t win more is due to variance. It can do the most broken things but at the same time it can just dick around trying to find the correct combination of those crazy powerful cards. The deck with the least variance would be a Stoneblade variant. They are able to use their cantrips to minimize the variance, ensure consistent draws and ensure that they have the correct card for each situation. With the exception of Jace no card they run is broken are even close. ( I am not addressing Brainstorm here. I would say probably 99% of what is written about Brainstorm on the internet is wrong. Using it first turn can often times be better than waiting till turn seven bc early use may make the deck more consistent in the long run as the first couple turns may be at a premium relative to the loss of total cards seen by turn seven as seeing ten cards on turn 1 is stronger than seeing 17 cards on turn seven in setting up the rest of the game. However the more cards you see the more likely you are to find the correct card you need.) The pros and good players play stoneblade bc of the decrease in variance. If you want to do well at a large event with a varied meta and good players you choose the deck with little variance. This is why zoo was great 4 years ago. Essentially every card was the same in the deck, making it incredibly consistent with no truly powerful cards in its maindeck.
Variance is a huge part of painter. It is one reason that it really isn’t a great choice for a huge event if you really want to win. I continue to play it bc I love the deck. As a doctor I have little time to play magic anymore but I know the deck well. Due to the variance rounds are short which I like anymore. If you really want to win with the deck you should be trying cards that minimize Variance. Diluting down the deck to do too many things will only increase said variance. By adding more prison elements( which is an overall weaker strategy), you are increasing your variance. Thus it may work for a match but that doesn’t mean it was the correct play. This is why when I play storm I go all in on the combo with a hope of mild disruption. There are about a half turn to a little less than a full turn faster than us. ( the difficulty in the turn depends on if its Empty the Warrens vs Tendrils). I have been fortunate to play against some of the best Storm players in the world as the Syracuse crew comes to DC area often. Against Bryant and Royce and the rest canonist may occasionally win you the game, but a good storm player can more often then not beat that one piece of disruption. The only true way to make the canonist or thorn work would be to have it with the combo elements in hand. Once you start wasting your tutors to find the weak disruption you are watering down your overall best strategy to strengthen a weaker strategy. It is as equally likely that a good player and a terrible player will draw the nuts with storm and just beat you turn one. Its variance and it happens. But I know most of the time if I can increase my decks consistency, know my deck better, that most of the storm players I sit across from I am better than and I can leverage that small advantage to allow my combo to beat theirs.
This post has some broad strokes, but I hope my points that strengthing the combo should be your number one priority. This is why I still feel that the white splash is the strongest version of the deck. ( I will never say that I have the best build), but I am pretty sure that the white splash is the best as it addressing everything I just posted. It cuts down on Variance giving you an incredibly strong tutor that strengthens the strongest aspect of the game. It allows the prison component to be stronger and more focused in the match ups where that will allow for the time for victory. And with the recent board it gives you access to a better beatdown plan at minimal cost if you have to shift focus away from the combo. It also uses RiP which strengthens the combo while giving you more combo pieces overall. Which again this is a combo deck first and foremost.
I mentioned the Dojo before bc without these fundamentals understood nobody can hope to do well in magic. You may win one tournament or have a hot run just based on match ups or luck, but you will never be able to advance the deck or your play without it. Painter will never be a deck to beat, even if recruiters were five bucks. Its due to variance, but I love the deck and will try to continue to make it better. Nobody has to listen to anything I said but if you do I promise that after time you will have more success with this deck and any other deck you play.
seth
Anarchy is really fun with a Painter's Servant out on "white."Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
Hollywood, good to hear from you man. Does this mean you are back playing painter? You getting down to Bmore/DC area to play anytime soon?
Seth
That was a helluva post, seth. I, for one, will admit that you snapped me out of a false-truth mentality about the deck. I still don't know if I can bring myself to splash White, but I will be revisiting the more combo heavy version that I've played before. Changing the deck around isn't as much fun as crushing with it.
@jandax- yeah in your meta your list may very well be the best build. It's hard to say. But I do think a general strategy should be to strengthen and allow the strongest aspects of the deck. But I am happy you liked the basic premise. It's important that people try the deck and really lose with the deck. I remember the first event I played in with it. I def shit the bed a few times that first time. But I learned so much. Really anyone picking this deck up should really just play one of the lists from the front for like 5-6 months then start to make changes and modifications. It's an incredibly hard deck to pilot. Mainly due to the difficulty in keeping of opening hands. E tutor makes The deck even harder as it will make it more consistent but opens more decision trees to work through.
I'll try and keep track of how I do Sunday and will post a response of the SCG open in Bmore
Seth
Don't think I'm going to make SCG Baltimore this time around. I think iPainter and moons are poised to do very well there. Good luck to all the Painters who will be there!
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Picked up some signed beta mountains today for the deck, and tested against a few of my friends playing Miracles. I went about 75/25, as Blood Moon did some work. Tested a round against Stoneblade and went 1-2. Eh, I can't do anything about Batterskull, Jitte, and Clique. :P Anyways, theres a big tourney coming up in my area, so I'll be Blood-Mooning people there!
You have Bridge for the Stoneblade matchups. That's something. Revokers on their equipment, too. Don't just roll over. Sure it's one really consistent deck with a decent clock, but iPainter has a lot of cards they must deal with before they can establish control of the board.
I drew bridge once, and it was countered, and the Revoker I drew was swords.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Well were you putting those cards onto an empty board? I don't know the game state, but Stoneblade does have a lot of consistency so you would have to run things into counters/removal before sticking the all important Bridge.
This was my first thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Variance and bad luck aside...
You want to keep a threat heavy hand. We pack painter/stone combo, moons (which can eat counters and are good here), koth, and bridge to name a few. These have to be answered and you should be able to stick something.
Of course you won't win every game :). But with a lot of practice the miracles matchup is definitely not as bad as it seems (as I once thought).
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Good day all, First post to the source as I am new to legacy. though the grand daddy of legacy for my area directed me here.
My second ever game of legacy was playing IPainter for a local dual lands legacy event. I got to say i fell in love with the deck.
I have ordered most of the staples (moons, grindstones painters and the such) and will try to contribute with some game reports as i start my grind to eventually afford real Recruiters.
I just wanted to thank you all as I spent a good few hours reading all the posts here to determine if the deck fit my playstyle (prison/combo) and to determine how to side board for my likely match ups.
I ended up going 2-3-0-1 and all my losses were incredibly close. The TO mentioned that my deck was the most stressful thing he had played against in a long time. so thanks again all
He had countered a few of my early threats (Recruiter/Servant/Grindstone), and he assembled quite a potent board state, giving me one turn to draw an out. I drew Bridge, and he was able to hardcast Force.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
So quick update. Jack is second in the top 8, going 8-1 on the day. I finished in 36 with a 6-2-1 losing a hard breaker to Jund and show and tell omni. I'll post some thoughts and I know jack will also. Good day for Painter.
Seth
Nice job guys!
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