Not that he's a huge problem for Nic Fit but being able to flash it in and kill leovold doesn't hurt. The white ability also makes for some nice combat tricksQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
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Not that he's a huge problem for Nic Fit but being able to flash it in and kill leovold doesn't hurt. The white ability also makes for some nice combat tricksQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I like it. Jund colors when playing midrange rather than Sneak have been needing a good top end threat. This card has the right power level. But, I think the untap line has to be treated as flavor text, otherwise it puts you back into 4 colors, and you can already do that for a mana less using Saskia.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstephenson
I'm pretty locked into BG for now though, and this card isn't enough to make me rethink that. I would rather play Nissa at 5.
Expensive legendary creatures that do not have protection are very unlikely historically to see play, just saying. See also Gitfucked Monster.
She is a human... Are there enough humans to start incorporating Cavern more often? Veteran, Tracker, this angry chick...Rector, but that is a specialized build. Bob, big/little Thalia, Knight of the Reliquary, Master of the Wild Hunt, Huntmaster.
Maybe that's just more of a mid-range tribal deck rather than nic fit though. I've seen a Thalia/Eldrazi stompy list running Trackers.
I totally missed double strike on Samut. Disregard my comment about the croc hitting harder.
Don't forget green snapcaster :pQuote:
Originally Posted by square_two
It could be interesting.
Lost Legacy has pretty much made Slaughter Games irrelevant for Junk Fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by tilzinger
I play Cavern all the time, incorporating 15-16 humans in a deck is pretty easy. Going for 17-20 starts to get difficult. Cavern has never caused me problems, and occasionally won me games.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Lost Legacy can be countered. I'm in a very blue heavy meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Edit: I should expand upon this. Miracles is rampant in Minneapolis. The only games I've won against it are bc I was able to surgically extract Terminus, this allowing me to establish a board and smash face. I've been wanting to try SG to see if it helps/furthers that plan.
Hi,
I'm actually playing my 4C Junk Atraxa build and with the new cards spoiled : Vizir of the menagerie and Samut, Voice of Dissent, i'm wondering ...
1) Do you think it'd be possible due to Vizir, to build a solid 5C Nic fit, on a Junk base for abusing about Atraxa, Rhino and Samut ?
2) Do you think the Vizir will go in 4C Atraxa and solidifying the manabase/color deaths ?
Try my list, or anything under the SE variant. The games are long, but my record against Miracles is very positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by tilzinger
What is "SE"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
It stands for Systems Engineering, because that's the approach we took to the deck skeleton. The quick description, is that it's a variant focused more on lowering the curve, with high amounts of CA to increase velocity, and more often hit the high impact cards. It's a way to have it all, lots of removal, lots of threats, and the CA to tie that all together. The primer has variants in both GBW and GB. The main idea is to play something that has the consistency of a blue deck like Delver or Miracles while not having to play 12 cantrips. It's pretty successful at doing what it's supposed to do, but it does move far away from the EDH staples... you'll slam few 5 drops and no 6 drops with that type of build. You will win games though.Quote:
Originally Posted by tilzinger
I still love that SE Fit actually exists and works. Just the concept of using that style of deckbuilding was awesome to behold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I'll chime in my 2c that Sneak also has a very positive win% vs miracles. You only really run into trouble vs Miracles if you try to go Rhino or if you go super far off the reservation into EDH-land.
Are we pretty confident that Nyx Fit also has a good miracles mu? Can't wait to try out Cruel Reality in that. And to finally have some early interaction with 2 or so each of Decay/Brutality/Swords.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I'm making plans to go to GP('s) Vegas and will definitely bring some form of nic fit.
I've been meaning to test Sneak Fit on Cockatrice, but haven't yet. I'm like $300 away from it in paper though :/
So I just won a Rhonas Invocation on twitch. I will get it after new set comes out. Once Vegas is over, I guess I will have an excuse to test it. *shrug*
http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/r...domitable1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l3VIglN.jpg
So....Nyx Fit?
To expand on Brael's post - Systems Engineering is a way to develop projects from a requirements point of view. In short, we started making a requirements model along the lines of "No card may cost more than 6 mana" and "At least X cards must qualify as card advantage/library manipulation" and so on (in part based on some math) that we could test decklists against. From there we did 2 things - classify cards (what counts as CA, what counts as ramp and so on), discuss what that classification should be (I might think something should count as a ramp card, but someone else can have a different opinion and we did need to work off a common base) and gradually fill in the decklist while checking it with the requirements model.Quote:
Originally Posted by tilzinger
The end result was nothing extremely different from what we were already playing, but it was a very streamlined list. Most importantly, it forced us to think about why we wanted to run any given card and what role we wanted it to fill. I still use that way of thinking to this day.
That's awesome! I never thought you were much of a fan of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Also, a couple of days back I said I'd post an updated list. Here it is:
Maindeck (60):
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Vizier of the Menagerie
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sylvan Library
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard
3 Duress
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
3 Lost Legacy
Relatively low curve, great chunk of 4s though. General plan boils down to "Annoy your opponent with cheap stuff, get up to 4/5 mana, stabilize and overwhelm your opponent". Relies even more heavily on GSZ than most lists. Manabase is also slightly smaller than most lists and requires you to fetch smartly.
And yes, I got rid of the Diabolic Intent. I know.
So is the list still being tweaked and updated to the current meta and cards that join the pool, following the same standards/requirements as you started with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I let go of strict requirements for the most part (reminds me of work too much), but I think my current list'll hold up quite well to the standards we set out at first. I believe Brael's the more active contributor to the SE list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
My role has been more Gandalf, gently nudging Braelbo out his frontdoor to continue the SE adventure :laugh:. All kidding aside, he's made awesome progress with the SE list.
I don't list the requirements out explicitly anymore but I keep track of them in my head and adhere to them pretty closely, most of my posts on cards are evaluating them in that context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
It's pretty easy to do since it's the process I use for most of my decks.
I haven't followed the thread much in recent years, but what is SE Fit exactly and what are your "requirements" for the deck?
Turn back a page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Do you have exact numbers and statistics somewhere located though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
They're buried in the previous thread. I dug around a bit, this page is probably useful to youQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ic-Fit/page245
There should be some stuff before and after it as well.
Sandwurm Convergence 6GG
Enchantment (Rare)
Creatures with flying can't attack you or planeswalkers you control.
At the beginning of your end step, create a 5/5 green Wurm creature token.
Feels similar to Cruel Reality for Nyx Fit.
Stops Delver, Entreat, Marit Lage, Grisel, Emrakul...a lot of those cases can be covered either by Deed or by Cruel Reality since fatty decks don't tend to have multiple creatures out. Wurm leaves you with board presence if it is later removed, affects the board immediately if you put it into play with Show and Tell, definitely some pros and cons to each.
To someone who hasn't really touched Nyx appreciably, this seems way better than Cruel Reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
So Sandwurm Convergence + Moat/Form of the Dragon?
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
I'm pretty inexperienced with Nyx. Can it afford to play an 8 mana spell to try and deal with Delver?Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
I like what the card does, but it really feels underpowered to me at 8.
Allow me to introduce you to our Lord and Savior, Academy Rector.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I feel the opposite because it really costs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
"academy rector" + kill her off ----> drop this into play.
That's very possible. The 8 CMC is actually a boon because 99% of the time, you will not deed for X >= 8.
You could magicalchristmasland combo:
Sandwurm Convergence + Dovescape to destroy an opponent's hopes of ever doing anything.
Rector --> Omni --> Sandwurm/Dovescape/Cruel Reality/Gideon's Intervention
It's not an auto-include, but it is a strong card to consider. It has the potential to do silly things in the right shell. If NicFit is doing combo, I think Sneak is the better package personally. I'd rather be on the regular NicFit train that has the option of going Sneaky kills. NyxFit is a bastardized Enchantress with "cool things" to exploit.
EDIT: Navsi beat me to it!
We need a master spreadsheet now that we have these two new goodies. Starfield itself might not even be that good anymore, I think that is fair to debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Wurm does "lock up" the board much faster than Cruel. Provided it sticks for a turn (valid assumption), you at least get a 5/5 to block any ground threat you face.
If I had to name a compact enchantment package for Nyx Fit right now it would probably be:
Wurm Convergence // Cruel Reality - one of these probably becomes the regular go-to for the first Rector activation. Impacts the board + win condition. They are repeating, powerful effects and your removal in hand really helps supplement them. Glad that we won't need to tutor for Deed quite so often anymore.
Starfield of Nyx - insane grind power, catch-all to grab anything you need. Downside is that it does not impact the board immediately, upside is great synergy with Deed, Grove, countered enchantments. I think the "win-con" factor of a live Starfield is more obsolete now that you should be winning already if you have 5 enchantments in play.
Curse of Death's Hold - some -1/-1 sweep effect in order to deal with tokens, Elves, D&T, Mentor, etc. Getting the nod over Doomwake due to wanting to try this Evolutionary Leap idea. Also harder to remove when you don't have a Grove available.
Nether Void - low cmc answer for most combo decks. Similar function to Dovescape but 2 cmc cheaper is huge. Evo Leap reduces need for Phyrexian Towers, meaning that Cavern can come in to fill some land spots and be synergistic with the Void.
Living Plane - still think Plane gets in due to how much of a coup de grace it can be, and how cheap it is to play out from hand or Grove tutor during upkeep -> play out the same turn. Deed becomes Armageddon, Curse becomes a win, it slows down fetchlands, still does a lot in general.
Great that all of those are <= 5cmc with the exception of Wurm/Cruel. Enables you to use Grove to grab and play what you need.
Edit: I wonder...replace Living Plane with Dovescape? Plane is best simply as a two-card combo with Curse. Dovescape works well against some decks on its own, and works fantastic with Wurm which you might already be hoping to get out first.
I don't know if Wurm could be better than Cruel, honestly. It's better against S&T, that's good, and you put the token in the end step, also good. But between removals (otherwise nearly useless against a leap list) and bounce Wurm gives more turns to the oppo to find an answer, were Cruel would just be a "destroy your jace and then 5 damage" every turn. Dunno, interesting anyway.
Oh, this is my last Leap-Nyx list. I'm finding it very good, but probably i have to add a DRS anyway, because the few games i've lost were due to manascrew (or a t2 combo of Ant, happens).
// 61 Mazzo
// 4 Artifact
4 Sensei's Divining Top
// 10 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
4 Academy Rector
1 Dryad Arbor
// 14 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Humility
1 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Dovescape
1 Cast Out
1 Cruel Reality
// 3 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eladamri's Call
// 23 Land
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Marsh Flats
// 7 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lingering Souls
// 15 Sideboard
// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
// 7 Enchantment
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 City of Solitude
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Cast Out
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
// 5 Sorcery
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
I'm in love with Lingering: give us time, tokens for leap and good under humility to beat the annoying 1/1 if we are low of life and don't have a deed. And yes, for monetary reason it's missing Living Plane: dunno what to cut anyway now. Probably just come back to 22 lands and +1 Drs or Plane.
I just changed my nyx list to a heavy Plainswalker build. I used the usual lockouts and played the slow game until I dropped Grim Nemesis and some other choice walkers. The decks playability still leaves me speechless sometimes. The mulligan game isn't strong but with these new enchants coming out I think it really gives nyxfit what it needed, a strong closer. I dropped doomwake because it seemed I passed it up when searching for things with rector and top decking it seemed miserable sometimes. I always build this deck weird. I don't like seeing GSZ in it. Makes it feel even slower to me, but that's just my opinion. I think humility can get sent to the board now but against any sneak deck it's amazing to just have in your hand, or a rector to sac to spaghetti monster. I'm probably going to cut the plains walkers that aren't nissa. Being able to drop her in on turn two is always rewarding. I've been testing hymn out lately and it just does work with this deck. The lack of board state early on isn't so cruel when you're ripping their hand apart past cabal.
I'm putting together this deck. I've tried to add as many early interaction cards as possible: 4 decay, 2 thoughtseize and 2 innocent blood. Thoughtseize have synergy with therapy and Innocent blood with explorer/rector. Running 3 leaps and only sack creatures makes the chains very reliable. It's possible i should have one off fatty to gsz for (but which?). 3 gsz might seem weird, and may be wrong, but the idea is to clear veterans from the deck so that Leap only finds rectors. Plus i need veterans to kickstart the unfairness
Garruk is another angle of attack that also finds rectors when flipped. 3 finnishers versus different decks: CR for few but big creatures, CoDH for decks that go wide and NV for storm and similar decks. Living planes for the lock and a one off SoNyx for grinding power.
SB is just a sketch. I would love some feedback.
Deck: Legacy Veteran Enchantments.dec
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:8
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Academy Rector
Spells:31
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Innocent Blood
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Evolutionary Leap
2 Sterling Grove
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Living Plane
1 Nether Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Cruel Reality
Lands:21
2 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:15
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Dead Weight
2 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Choke
1 Lost Legacy
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Nissa, Vital Force
I was thinking about toying around with a couple copies of perilous research in BUG fit.
I don't even know if raw card draw is needed in the deck at all (we have strix tracker jace recursion nissas ultimate already), but it seems like a fun decent card. So, for now, I'm gonna test it only for fun.
If I understand correctly the sacrificing is not part of the cost but it happens during resolution instead. So it is instant card draw with upside (sacrifice veteran) in the early game, and with a minor downside in the late game (sacrificing a land seems trivial in the mid to late game when we have triggered VE already and have plenty of mana). If you play token producers like garruk or master you can sac the token but that's magical (but possible) Christmas land.
Again, I don't even know if the deck needs raw card draw but it is an instant and a cheap sac outlet for VE, so 1-2 copies could very well be beneficial to the overall strategy.
Thoughts?
Well, it's positive that you only sacrifice something if it resolves, it isn't as risky as Diabolic Intent. And lategame, when you're mayhaps out of targets for your fetchlands, sacrificing a fetchland to draw 2 cards isn't that big of a deal.
Exactly.. I wouldn't even mind sacrificing a strix if we aren't facing a threat or even better a clue made by tracker..it seems a great inclusion to be honest
I might even add that the card could act as a pseudo stp counter, because we can sacrifice the dude they are targeting so we can recur it later in the game.
Hi!Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
Personnaly, I have exchanged my thoughtseize with collective brutality and never looked back. So seize are in SB instead f duress.
21 lands are few IMO. Would go to 61 by adding a plain.
I've not tested leap yet so I can't give my opinion with 3 GSZ for only 4 vet.
I think proscription is better than O ring (flash + cycling) but still not tested it (quite obviously)