Here are some good recent Thrull lists:Quote:
Originally Posted by z0anthr0pe
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=54751&d=606932&f=LE
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=54909&d=608230&f=LE
They all keep Stifle.
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Here are some good recent Thrull lists:Quote:
Originally Posted by z0anthr0pe
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=54751&d=606932&f=LE
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=54909&d=608230&f=LE
They all keep Stifle.
By the same mode of argument, opponent is helpless against Curie in any deck with Wasteland/StP/Saga->Pithing Needle/etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Yes they have potential answers for Ophidian, but we already run answers for those cards. So we are reduced to the % of times they draw that answer & we don't draw the counter. Even if they have the answer, they're using 1 card to stop 1 Ophidian (1-for-1), so it's not a crippling loss. Nought isn't committed yet. If they have too many answers, Curie can be boarded out.
So the trick with Ophidian back in the day was you never had to jam it turn 3. You could wait till 5 lands, holding up Counterspell + FoW.Quote:
Concerning combo decks, tapping out at sorcery speed for a 2 drop [not-hatebear] vs combo is one of the most reproducible ways to lose this format has ever seen. Remember that Ragavan made a 3rd mana and they got there with DHA b/c they could profitably play Daze and thus might survive a YOLO-tapout. Playing a deck bereft of 1 drops and making summoning sick fatties that give opponents untap + draw + land drop, does not lead to Daze hitting key spells.
In the control vs combo match, you aren't forced to act first. Hold up answers. Eventually your CA engine gets deployed and you will outdraw them.
That line may work in Legacy too, without Daze or turn 2 tapouts. Just hold up Stifle/Dress Down/FoW/Fluster/etc until you play your CA on 3-4 lands.
The discussion of Curie is now offically over it's time to talk about, Nulldrifter and the two new Urza Lands.
Nulldrifter doesn't pitch to Force. Both modes seem unplayable without a combo. Funny that you can Stifle/Dress Down it into play and keep the draw 2 though. It's slow (turn 3-4), but 4/4 flying annihilator is good and the draw 2 on cast is big.
Thrull builds could finally cut green for stable mana, with Nulldrifter filling the role of secondary target & card draw.
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Nulldrifter
2 Murktide Regent
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
2 Ponder
2 March of Otherworldly Light
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Lands: 19
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
3 Island
1 Plains
Why the fuck are you even talking about null drifter? That's weeks old, who cares?
It's Null Vessle Time!
Null Vessel
Artifact
1
Sacrifice Null Vessle: until end of turn creatures entering the battlefield didn't cause abilities to trigger
It's in mh3, not the commander decks
Can play both together. It makes T3 Nulldrifter or T2 Dreadnought.
Doesn't cantrip or turn sideways so you don't want too many copies. But good proactive T1 play to troll Grief/Initiative/Goblins/Atraxa faster than Thrull can.
Tutorable off Saga, so Saga now fixes both sides of the combo! T1 Saga can become T3 12/12 fairly consistently.
Too many leaks:
I've been told it's not real.
I am owned
Nulldrifter is pretty insane. Draw 2 plus a game winning threat is well worth 3 mana. It replaces Uro and without Uro, the deck can now play 2-3 Murktide as a supplemental beefy threat.
March of Otherworldly Light seems not great, definitely not worth cutting 2 Ponder for. I would rather play all 4 Ponder (or a 3 Ponder, 1 Lorien Revealed split) and cut one Daze and one Thrull or a Nulldrifter for the 2 flex slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
3 Islands feels excessive and I would instead just lightly splash a third color (red for the sideboard options it opens up) to be able to play 2 Prismatic Ending instead of 2 March.
But otherwise, this list looks perfect. 👍
Yeah I didn't love going to 2 Ponder 2 March.
With 0 March 0 Prismatic Ending, the deck has no maindeck removal for noncreatures. So in game 1 you can't interact with Beans, scoop to Ensnaring Bridge, struggle with Chalice @ 1, etc. That's a lot of game 1 losses. The Bant Thrull builds have 2 Prismatic Ending to deal with that stuff.
Could still play 4 Ponder, play 2 Prismatic, splash the red triome, and cut down to 2-3 Daze.
Why Leyline and Draco?
Because hexproof dreadnought, and you get to daze off a sol landQuote:
Originally Posted by FTW
E: oh and play leyline binding. You're always saying I need more removal!
The whole Scion of Drago and Leyline plan adds too much inconsistency but the idea of adding a couple of Ancient Tomb now that Nulldrifter looks to replace Uro as the go to secondary threat feels like its worth exploring. Tomb lets you cast Dress Down/Doorkeeper Thrull and Dreadnought on the same turn in addition to casting Nulldrifter or Hullbreacher.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
My early post MH3 brew…
Bant Dressnought 2024
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dress Down
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
1 Daze
1 Slip Out the Back
1 Consign to Memory
2 Prismatic Ending
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Nulldrifter
2 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Doorkeeper Thrull
2 Murktide Regent
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Karakas
1 Shifting Woodland
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest
//Sideboard:
3 Hydroblast
2 Doorkeeper Thrull
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Veil of Summer
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Pick Your Poison
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Force of Negation
1 Force of Vigor
Nulldrifter seems the most promising but both Consign to Memory and Shifting Woodland look like they could be worth playing as 1 ofs.
Its also possible that Vexing Bauble is good enough that we should shift over to playing a copy alongside 3 Urza’s Saga instead of the 3 Wasteland.
Its also likely that I should cut some of the 1 ofs to play the 4th Stifle, 4th StP and/or 3rd Doorkeeper Thrull, but its early and I want to test out some spicy cards.
Anything I missed from MH3? I didnt check all the leaks yet.
My initial reaction to consign is aversion.
I guess it matters how big colorless spells get after mh3
Consign might be good and is worth testing as a 1-of.
It's a Stifle that doesn't counter fetches or Wasteland but does counter:
- Chalice
- The One Ring
- Mystic Forge
- Bowmasters trigger
- Grief/Solitude ability
- SFM trigger
- Uro trigger..
Seems a lot better than Slip Out the Back.
It actually lets you play chalice, which is something I've wanted to do again
I like that both Consign and Nulldrifter can be played at instant speed and Consign can hit multiple triggers.
Yes it would cost 5 mana but I would love to one day respond to my opponents One Ring by first evoking Nulldrifter and then consigning/countering both the One Ring and Nulldrifters sacrifice trigger.
The manabase worries me, instead of playing 3 basics, I would rather play an extra tundra and a Boseiju who Endures.
If playing 3 Urzas Saga instead of Wasteland, the maindeck also needs to make room for 1 Lavaspur Boots, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Vexing Bauble and 1 Mycosynth Gardens.
Of the threats, Murtide seems like the weakest link as it neither draws cards nor wins in a single swing.
Nulldrifter does not have flash, am I missing something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Youre right. My mistake. I thought it did for some weird reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by snugar_i
Im still excited about Nulldrifter, especially in a Mono Blue Dressnought list alongside Harbinger of the Seas. Most blue decks lightly splash a color for their removal. Shutting off the removal colors is exactly what our deck wants, Harbinger is a bomb in that respect.
Monoblue Dressnought
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dress Down
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze
2 Consign to Memory
1 Force of Negation/Slip Out the Back
1 Lorien Revealed
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
2 Harbinger of the Seas
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Murktide Regent
1 Tishana's Tidebinder or Curie, Emergent Intelligence or Narset or Hullbreacher or Jace or some other utility card
4 Wasteland
5 Snow-Covered Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Otawara, Soaring City
1 Mycosynth Gardens or Another Blue Utility Land
//Sideboard:
4 Hydroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Harbinger of the Seas
2 Force of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Consign to Memory
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Jace/Court of Cunning
Murktide & Uro don't work together. It's one or the other, not both.
Murktide is good if you cut green (Nulldrifter draws cards so green is less necessary).
Possible threat suites:
//Bant Build
4 Dreadnought
4 Uro
2 Nulldrifter
//UW or Mono U
4 Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
3 Murktide
Mono U is interesting with maindeck Harbinger. Removal-less usually has lower win rate (see MtgTop 8 results: Dreadnought can't race Marit Lage or Archon), but Harbinger shuts down Depths & Borrower also answers fatties.
I'm going to wait until tomorrow and they leak the eldrazi deck.
because my currnet plan is:
Chalice,
Torpor Orb,
NullDrifter
Dreadnought,
Grim Monolith (as lotus petal)
Silver Shroud Costume
Curie?
Force?
Redemptor Dreadnought? (cavern of souls?)
Vanguard Supressor?
Land that enables dreadnought
Talon Gates of Madara:
When ~ enters the battlefield, up to 1 target creature phases out.
T: Add C
1C: Add one of any color
4: Put ~ from your hand onto the battlefield.
Land that lets you get nutty under other enablers:
Sunken palace:
Enters tapped.
T: Add U
1U, Exile Seven cards from your graveyard, T: Add U, if it's used to cast a spell or activate an ability, copy that spell or ability
Ugin's Binding seems great with Nulldrifter...
Ugin's Binding
2U
Instant
Deviod
Return target nonland permanent you don't control to it's owner's hand.
Whenever you cast a colorless spell with mana value 7 or greater, you may exile Ugin's Binding from your graveyard. When you do, return each nonland permanent you don't control to it's owner's hand.
Yeah binding is just nonsense with nulldrifter but what's your other way to trigger it?
//Seems like a combo-oriented Thresh to me. The problems of standalone power and converting dead control elements into superior win conditions, unsure of the choice between playing control or combo in some cases. Seems like Dreadstill and classic legacy reinterpretations of Thresh are colliding into the lowest-CC curve. I consider the combo so expensive alongside the Waste+Stifle+Daze approach that 20 rather than 18 seems more appropriate.//
; UWg Dreadnought:
"""
// `Lands - 20` //
4 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
// `FTW - 14` //
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
3 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
4 Dress Down
// `Threshly Control - 18`//
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Prismatic Ending
// `Threshly CQ - 8` //
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
"""
<br>
From what I can see, however, this is just worse than Delver-based Thresh on average. In striving toward that variation, I kinda like this mono blue concept:
"""
// `Lands - 20` //
4 Wasteland
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Prismatic Vista
3 Island
3 Snow-Covered Island
// `Threshly CQ Smoothing - 8` //
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
// `Threshly Control - 18`//
4 Force of Will
4 Force of Negation
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Brazen Borrower
// `FTW - 14` //
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Curie, Emergent Intelligence
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Murktide Regent
"""
Nobody can afford to let Curie click (the non-useless-ification of a combo enabler and classic in-function standalone piece for the rest of the role of this deck), and it just so happens to pair nicely with Dreadnought. Yes, you do open yourself to 2-for-1s, and that's often part of the inherent risk of a Dreadnought deck in the first place. Added bonus is that you can swing right on the spot, where 12 cards probably ends the game. There's something pleasant about the threat density, and I would dare call it fishy. =). I will argue that splashing at least, even if only, for sideboarding seems likely worthy. Harbinger of the Seas seems like a much stronger SB card, and it has that B2B feel of MUC, in a way (which wouldn't be the worst SB option here either); one could even transform out of Dreadnought for a total attack on the opposing mana base. Ugin's Binding + Nulldrifter may simply be better in the end, I have no idea.
4eak, both of your lists should make room for 3 Nulldrifter and 4 Dress Down.
20 Lands + 8 cantrips is excessive, 19 is as high as I would go. I would probably cut a Daze too, Daze works better as a 2-3 of than as a 4 of.
In your UWg list, I would recommend
-1 Daze
-1 Island
-1 Prismatic Ending
+3 Nulldrifter
The monoblue list should be maindecking Harbinger, its the only reason to play monoblue. Delver is too slow and Curie makes sense as 1-2 of, not a 4 of. And 4 Force of Negation is beyond excessive and way too much card disadvantage alongside the FoWs, I would play 1 FoN maindeck and another in the board. So those would be my cuts to make room for the Nulldrifters, Harbingers and Dress Downs.
Help me understand your love of Harbringer (aka, Flood Moon, Aka Magus of the Blue Moon, aka Avatar Merfolk Copium)
It's double U in the cost, so you're not playing it early. Islands are far more useful to opponents than mountains. It keeps you out of other colors where goodies like Uro are.
Monstrous Vortex
3G
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a creature spell with power 5 or greater, discover X, where X is that spell's mana value
So if you have a torpor orb or dress down out....
and you cast a dreadnought...
and you have no other 1's/0's....
you get to put 4 dreadnoughts into play.
Which means no chalice, but man..... 48 power?
The splash colors contain all the removal. You cut them off the splash color and they cant StP, Boseiju or Meltdown our threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Our threats are much faster clocks than their threats with the exception of Marit Lage which both Harbinger and Brazen Borrower help with.
Im not saying its worth going monoblue for harbinger. UW, Bant and UG are probably better. But if we opt to go monoblue (which is finally viable thanks to Nulldrifter), Harbinger should be maindecked.
No other 1s in the deck means we dont get to play Brainstorm, Ponder or Stifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
4 thrull
4 Dreadnought
4 nulldrifther
2 brazen/misdirection
4 force
4 daze
4 stifle
4 dress down
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 stp
4 wasteland
3 tundra
1 surveil land
3 island
7 fetch
basic but work well
Yeah I like that plan, it looks consistent.
Probably Brazen over Misdirection because there's no way to remove noncreatures like Chalice (no Prismatic Ending)
yes brazen is better solution. Prismatic Ending is in side, two color not Is the best fot P.E.
you could still change the land with surveil with 1x of otawara to have an additional solution?
love this list as a starting point. how would you start the sb?Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
Yes this list looks solid, but it doesnt use the graveyard at all so could easily support 2 Murkide as a bonus big threat. And definitely brazen over misdirection.Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
I would cut a stifle and daze for the murktides, stifle because it doesnt work as well with nulldrifter (it needs 4 mana on the same turn), and daze because daze is way more potent when it surprises your opponent, and the more dazes you play, the less likely daze is to catch them by surprise.
the deck must put down a big guy on the third turn at the latest, and it must do so with active protection, if you don't have a hand that can do it you must mulligan. If the main plan doesn't work the strength of the deck is the draw/search engine which normally allows us to repeat our game. In any case, both Regent and S. Caterina are possible insertions.
I find nulldrifther very strong because if the stifle-nulldrifther play is blocked, 2 cards have still been drawn and therefore 1) we didn't miss a turn 2) we had +1 card advantage over our opponent (who spent a card to block our play)