Printable View
Some interesting anti-Ichorid board tech? It singlehandedly takes out all of their Bridges, as well as a Dread return (or possibly a Dread Return target). Not sure if it's better than, say Fanatic, but it's colorless and only costs 1, so it's super splashable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heap Doll
Only question I have is why would you play that over Tormod's Crypt? I suppose in Survival or other decks that have a means of finding creatures more easily than artifacts it might have a place, but I can't see it doing anything better than crypt already does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
Like Shelldock Isle, I think that those qualify as danger of cool things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
Loaming Shaman is prob gonna be better for survival decks. Heap Doll is a 1/1 for 1?
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur "
You seem to have misunderstood my conjecture. Although it does nothing on it's own, it doesn't seem worth the mana for the effects. Jitte is colourless removal, pump, and life gain. Bridge from Below creates creatures for free. Piledriver can suddenly swing for seven. Everlasting Torment prevents life gain, damage prevention, and changes the way creatures hurt each other.
Woo-hoo."
All the other cards are capable of inflicting damage though. It might be interesting to see Everlasting Torment in burn's sideboard. But I feel like it would be a tempo loss that isn't getting you closer to winning. It doesn't feel like a maindeck card to me.
Heap Doll prolly isnt as good Ichorid hate as Mogg Fanatic or Awfulsnout, it does still do bad things for it tho :frown:. This was possibly gunna be a graveyard matters set, but instead its a hybrid mana set with no chase rares, and a GY hate card. DO NOT WANT :cry:
While this card is probably not Legacy material (waddup wasteland), but in Extended and Standard I love this card. Lands that are capable of winning the game for you are definitely favored in my book. Especially when this card stacks, i.e. having 2 or more is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Here's my personal hierarchy of the CIPT basic-type lands:
Black one - Win condition, stacks
White one - Also stacks, and ability is somewhat useful. (If this was blue,
then I imagine it would be completely sick with Teachings. A little mini-eot version of Gaea's blessing, if you will.)
Green one - As long as burn's around, life gain will always have a use, so this land can be somewhat useful, since it stacks. I mean, having 2 of these is not good against a burn opponent, especially when you're buying time to topdeck that Goyf.
Blue one - Kinda pointless. Having multiple is pretty much useless (well, you can look at your lib and your opp's if you have 2) but even if you run a singleton, it doesn't even seem worth it to cut a basic Island for this.
Red one - Virtually useless. Wow, you can only shuffle your library, way to make it even worse.
I will sell you my Upwellings for 3 dollars a piece, especial priced for you, because I like the cut of your gib.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Thoughseize isn't unique. Not much special about Goyf. Divining Top is a Sylvan Library, basically.
The powerful spells are the ones that were printed too cheap. That's pretty much the gist of it.
If only the white and green decks running damage prevention/life gain had some way of removing enchantments. Oh well. Too bad.Quote:
Granted, prevention of life loss, the non-prevention of damage, and wither are all on other cards, but the combination of all three in one card, for so cheap (seriously, three mana, holy christ) is entirely unique.
Mainboard? No, but it's going to fundamentally alter the sideboarding strategies of quite a few decks.
Also, this card doens't answer Confinement. Not in Burn, at least.
Depends. Can I get your Garruks, Replenishes, Humilities, Trinispheres, Bridges, Mind's Desires, Forces, LEDs, Burning Wishes, Chalices, Factories/Mutavaults, Moxen, Survivals, and Loams for three bucks a pop too?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges
Power is overwhelmingly a function of relative cost : effect. Novelty isn't nearly as important as breaking fundamental design elements of the game (for instance, 1 land per turn [Fastbond / Moxen / Lotus]; 1 card per turn [Ancestral]; 1 untap / attack step per turn [Time Walk]; etc.). The "best" cards are the ones that break the design core of the game for dirt cheap.
Goyf is broken for a similar reason. Using the mana / creature model, a 1G creature should cost 2/2 or 2/3 if you want to push it; 3/2 or 3/3 if you really want to push it or if they're letting power creep upwards over time. A 5/6 without any appreciable drawback is off the chart. )Not that I think the DCI should do anything about Mr. Goyf; I'm just pointing out that that really good cards are cards that really shouldn't be.)
Sure thing man, PM me :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Only if you take all my copies of Form of the Dragon, Transendence, Living Land, Kormus Bell, (R/G/W/U/B) Myojin, (R/G/W/U/B)Bringer, Eon Hub, Shared Fate, Blood Funnel, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Also, right, like Mutavault, Mox and LED are original, and not obviously modeled off earlier cards.
For every good, novel card, there are dozens of interesting but ultimately unplayable duds.
Right, but the most powerful cards are generally fairly unique, or the best of a small set of cards (Trinisphere>Sphere of Resistance>Thorn or whatever). You don't see many Grizzly Bears running around, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges
But what's so effing special or original about Thoughtseize, Ponder, Top, Goyf?
I guess Balance is original. But originality wouldn't have cut it if it had cost one more mana.
It attacks for one more damage than Crypt does. Also, it chumps, which Crypt can't do.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillemallCFH
...although it's still a lame card.
So far, the only cards I've seen in this set that I'm interested in for this format are Kitchen Finks and Vexing Shusher, both of which will help Diglett.dec. This feels more like a limited set to me, with relatively few constructed bombs outside of Standard...that said, it should be fun in Casual. Oona is definitely going in my :u::b: harem deck. By the way (since this thread has degenerated into an off-topic mess) does anyone here play the harem format? I just finished this awesome deck built around Richard Garfield, Ph.D. It's like an aggro control deck, but the casting costs are such that once the pimp comes down I can combo off and "Tendrils" someone for ten storm or so. Ancestral Recall + High Tide + Turnabout + Yawgmoth's Will ftw.
Memory Plunder {u/b}{u/b}{u/b}{u/b}
Instant R
You may play target instant or sorcery card in an opponent's graveyard without paying its mana cost.
Playable in Vintage to use your opponent's restricted bombs (I know nothing of that format...) ?
I feel like this might have that sort of huge spike up to like a fifteen dollar card only to spiral out of rare binders a week or so later. Like, it looks like it has a lot of potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by georgjorge
But it costs 4.
I think the latter part of that statement is more relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by lonelybaritone
What would want to use it?
Who would want to use it? Or who would use it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
It seems way too conditional. However I think T2 control could get away with making it work. Being able to play an instant speed Damnation or Profane Command (assuming your opponent already played one) cou...nah, it's jank.
You could just play your own restricted bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by georgjorge
I think the card is too narrow and too slow. It will get some hype as some sort of stealer-Will, but it will fade out after a while. It could see play in T2 though.
Nah, it still triggers the ability. You're still doing damage to Stuffy Doll, you're simply doing it in the form of -1/-1 counters. It does make it a much worse idea for Stuffy Doll to ping himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
There are very few applications with Memory Plunder. Almost every instance that you want to play your opponent's spell (i.e. in response to Storm or Orim's Chant back), Twincast does it better because you need an immediate response as opposed to post-resolution. You use Twincast to relay Tendrils back... or bounce back their Orim's Chant. Plunder can't do that... I don't see it as being that useful.
Maybe as some kind of sideboard card in Solidarity? It does have some funny potential -- can you keep copying the same Memory Plunder in your opponents GY?Quote:
Originally Posted by Versus
This card makes no mention of allowing you to play the spell at instant speed if it's not an instant. Although we don't have the actual wording on the card, as it is now, I believe you can still only play the damnation at sorcery speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Versus
Vintage prefers spells to be of the :3::u: casting cost for 4 mana spells (so your Mana Crypt/Sol Ring/Mana Vault can go to work). It won't see any play there (you'll never have quad blue/black and if you do from Rit or Academy there's much better spell to play, like your own restricted cards which you wouldn't cut to make room for this).Quote:
Originally Posted by georgjorge
Lists are fun. These lists are in very roughly descending order of likelihood to see play. (Note that this is quite distinct from and orthogonal to how good or powerful a card is. Ostensibly bad cards with niche uses see more play than cards which are decent, but just barely less powerful than ten other very similar cards).
Some of the names might have changed since when I compiled the lists: eh.
Alright, so, good cards from the set so far:
- Manamorphose
- Fracturing Gust (great Cunning Wish target)
- Vexing Shusher
- Runed Halo
- Graven Cairns cycle
Cards with solid potential:
- Faerie Macabre
- Kitchen Finks
- Stupid Wheel
- Fulminator Mage
- Ashenmoor Gouger
- Beseech the Queen
- Toil to Renown (could be a decent target for Burning Wish in control decks)
- Sygg, River Cutthroat
Cards which could see play if various celestial bodies align themselves in exactly the right way:
- Firespout
- Swans of Bryn Argoll
- Tattermunge Liege
- Demigod of Revenge
- Tattermunge Maniac
- Cursecatcher
- Cragganwick Cremator
- Smash to Smithereens
- Prismatic Omen
- Oona, Queen of the Fae (note: they've actually been called that since Lorwyn)
- Puresight Merrow
- Augury Adept
- Elsewhere Flask
- Wilt-Leaf Liege
- Dusk Urchins
- Boggart Ram-Gang
- Spirit Procession
- Rite of Consumption
- Everlasting Torment
- Flame Javelin
- Gleeful Sabotage
- Rhys the Redeemed
- Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
- Elvish Hexhunter
- Cerebral Bore
- Mercy Killing
- Umbral Mantle
- Painter's Servant
- Wasp Lancer
- Heap Doll
Cards which pretty much suck, but can't be ruled out entirely (and that's using an extremely permissive interpretation of "entirely", especially towards the end):
- Cemetery Puca
- Curse of Chains
- Lurebound Scarecrow
- Guttural Response
- Inkfathom Infiltrator
- Godhead of Awe
- Order of Whiteclay
- Counsel of the Fae
- Oversoul of Dusk
- Giantbaiting
- Pyre Charger
- Dew Infusion
- Dream Salvage
- Cauldron of Souls
- Savor the Moment
- Knacksaw Clique
- Mana Reflection
- Enchanted Evening
- Mirrorweave
- Howl of the Night Pack
- Seedcradle Witch
- Devoted Druid
- Puppeteer Clique
- Rosheen Meanderer
- Wort, the Raidmother
- Thought Reflection
- Ragefanner Giant
- Manaforge Cinder
- Consign to Dream
- Memory Plunder
And lastly, potential reanimation (or cheat-into-play-via-other-means) targets, separate only because I was finding it a pain in the ass to rank them together with the rest:
(no order)
- Twilight Shepherd
- River Kelpie
- Midnight Banshee
- Windbrisk Raptor
- Mossbridge Troll
- Woodfall Primus
- Grim Poppet
- Knollspine Dragon
Go forth and bicker and debate amongst yourselves.
You can play it at instant speed. It works the same way as Guile or Mosswort Bridge, which allow you to play things at instant speed despite not explicitly saying so.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
No you can't. That makes the card even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by kicks_422
No I think I'm wrong, I guess you can play it immediatly and only immediatly.
Illisius: you really think Tattermunge Maniac is that farfetched?
Not even Goyf Sligh plays Jackal Pup, traditional Sligh doesn't see play (nor does N-land Stompy), and I doubt it'll be good enough for Goblins. That said, it's still solidly in "could find a niche" territory in my list. (I could also turn out to simply be wrong.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH
When was the last time you got run down by Jungle Lions? It's not a bad card, and you'll certainly play against it on occasion and lose to it on occassion, it's just not Tier 1 by any stretch of the imagination. I fail to see how Tattermunge Maniac is that different from Jungle Lion (sure it's a Goblin).
Is it just me or is anyone really dissappointed with this set? I mean I know MaRo has a hard on for hybrid, but come on, they printed a 300 card set that looks to have zero (0) chase rares, except maybe Oona...but really nothing is even on the level of Thoughtseize, Garruk, Cryptic Command, Mutavault, Crusher, Chameleon Colossus, etc. I mean the set looks like itll be fun and good in Limited, but I dont want to play Limited if the packs I win have a max value of 6-8$. Anyone else concerned here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
What? Vexing Shusher for one will be an amazing $$ Rare and Fulminater Mage won't be a $20 bill, but will be a chase rare. Swans will be money, so will the Hybrid Land cycle and Sygg, River Cut Cutthroat . This will be the first set in a while where buying a box will be worth it...
no I think this set is bringing us some great creatures.
Garruk? Thoughtseize? Manavault? The Commands?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacearuse
Lorwyn has plently of money.
I dont think Shusher is all that, it will maybe be played in goblins decks, and maybe in the SB of Combo decks. I dont see how combo can afford to keep an extra R open for every spell in plays tho...Xantid Swarm just seems better to me. I think they printed the card as an answer to Counterbalance in Extended, so Goblins/Domain Zoo can get around, which it will accomplish, but at a 6-8$ price tag I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacearuse
Fulminator Mage wont be worth much, in Type 2 and Block it fits in no decks, and I dont see a place for it in Extended either. Even if it does see play in some Legacy Sui decks or whatever, that alone wont push its price tag above 5$. Same thing with Swans, the only time that card isnt awful is with Chain of Plasma, which again is a Legacy only combo that wont even be better than current combo. It may hit 8-10 initially and then will probably fall.
I forgot about the lands, the blue ones of those may be worth a pretty penny, and Reflecting Pool may drastically rise, but none of these will be 15-20$ chase rares like the past 3 sets had.
IDK, maybe Im just a cynic but this set looks like it just sucks sucks sucks to me.
Also, you could pretty much break even and sometimes even profit from opening Future Sight boxes when they were still in print, Hell 1 Goyf is more than half the box :wink:
Mutavault was in Morningtide and yes Garruk, Thoughtseize and the command were $$, I forgot, sorry...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
Think back to this post when Shusher is a $12-$18 rare. He single handily shuts down Counterbalance and is a house against almost any control deck. In extended he will be an auto 4 of in RDW and Burn. Look my blistering Firecat hits the board and swings for 7, look my Shrapnel Blast resolves...This card will be played in every Red based aggro deck in every format, he is going to be good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
Have you seen the top decks in Standard and Extended lately? They all play non-basics, this guy will be played heavily in extended and Standard. He may find room in a Legacy deck but I doubt it. Mutavault is played in almost every standard deck now days and will make a splash in the next extended season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
Tell ya what, just trade or sell me all of your Ful. Mages and Shushers and I will agree with you...
I think Future Sight may still be the best set to buy packs/boxes/cases of, from a money perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
Of course, from a money perspective the best path is just to buy singles.
Im not saying these cards wont be good and played, I just dont think theyll acheive chase-rare status of 12$+ price tags. Shusher is really a thwart to just Counterbalance, and Mage is an answer to Mutavault/colr fixers in type 2/Block, but he just doesnt really fit anywhere, no one plays elementals, he wont be played in Faeries, Elves, Reveillark, Big Mana...I just dont see his place. I think these will both be 6-8$ rares, playable, but not across a wide variety of decks and formats. I could be wrong, but Im just not seeing it. Well wait and see I guess, and yes by all means quote me on this Id love to be proven wrong so we dont have another Prophecy/Champions on our hands :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacearuse