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It's good if you run Humilities. Play those, stall, land a Humility and make everything indestructible eventually. Elspeth is an amazing card, but the problem I personally have with her is the fact she costs 27 bucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
Crack them in boosters by winning a draft the day before the tournament where Elspeth and legal and go to town like this guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
Martial Coup - XWW
Sorcery (R)
Put X 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens into play. If X is 5 or greater, destroy all other creatures.
Anyone seen this? I know its no decree or elspeth but it seems strong, specifically with the wrath ability, under humility or not. I don't know, not bad as a one or two of. Thoughts?
I definitely think it's good, but it's nothing like instant, uncounterable soldiers in your face like decree.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3duece
I have a couple of questions about UWb Landstill, specifically the inclusion of Brainstorm. I'm not a big Landstill player so you'll have to bear with me. In lists like konsultant's, is it there mostly to keep the blue card count high enough to run Force of Will? I understand it's one of the most powerful cards in the format, but it seems like an E. Tutor package would be more synergistic with the deck and would allow for the inclusion of powerful 1-ofs such as Crucible or Humility (neither of which are apparently necessary, although rockout seemed to like his crucible). However, that cuts the non-Force blue card count down to 12 which seems way too low, and then you're pitching much more powerful cards like FoF/Standstill (cards that provide actual card advantage) or other counterspells. This combined with E. Tutor providing card disadvantage and I can see why Brainstorm gets a spot in the deck. If I'm way off in my assumption please let me know.
Secondly, on (non-Factory) win conditions, konsultant's list with 3x Decree and 2x Dragon and rockout's list with 2x Elspeth, 2x Decree and 1x Dragon both seem like a lot when this deck runs such powerful draw spells and doesn't need to see a win-con until the mid to late game. Are 4+ win-cons necessary to prevent massive amounts of drawn rounds? I apologize if this is the stuff you learn in Landstill kindergarten, but again, I'm not as familiar with the deck.
The concept of running Brainstorm is simple in this deck; you tend to cast Brainstorm when you're looking for a specific card, optimizing or hitting UU on Turn 2 to have Counterspell mana open (even for bluffing purposes). Yes, you can run more cards in place of Brainstorm like say 2 more Fact or Fictions or a playset of Spell Snares. The problem with this is that you won't be able to capitalize on your draw spells as well as you used to and you have to mulligan more hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplayer
The Blue count in Landstill has always been 18 Blue cards minimum. The reasoning for that is that you don't really cast FoW early game often unless it is against combo. Against Threshold or other random aggro decks, you tend to save FoW in your hand to help reinforce your board sweepers and removal. So personally, I wouldn't go any lower than that.
ETutor must be used in addition to Brainstorm, otherwise it just sucks. It's also a shuffle effect, so why would you exclude Brainstorm here?
Landstill actually finishes rounds quickly if you've practiced with your deck. You should be making quick and decisive decisions since many decisions tend to become quite intuitive. Rabid Wombat, many claimed, had the same problem simply because it's a control deck. All the good players played Wombat well within round time because they have experience with the deck. Good players should always be able to play Control well within the 50 min round limit.Quote:
Secondly, on (non-Factory) win conditions, konsultant's list with 3x Decree and 2x Dragon and rockout's list with 2x Elspeth, 2x Decree and 1x Dragon both seem like a lot when this deck runs such powerful draw spells and doesn't need to see a win-con until the mid to late game. Are 4+ win-cons necessary to prevent massive amounts of drawn rounds? I apologize if this is the stuff you learn in Landstill kindergarten, but again, I'm not as familiar with the deck.
As for the extra win conditions, it's just to diversify win conditions and control mechanics. Elspeth is basically a Bitterblossom that makes Humility indestructible as the game progresses. Why you're running her is because she's just synergistic and aggressive.
I have tested extensively with Elspeth, but I am saddened because Elspeths are 30 dollars. : (
So I guess that answer would be Library manipulation is something that landstill thrives on to control the early game and get into th late game where it has inevitability against most decks in this format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
Some newer builds are running a recent addition of ponder as it allows you to continuously dig and keep your library t3 in good shape. This is exceptionally usefull against decks with hymn or decks with top because it allows you to keep up with their card manipulation as well.
Though I do agree that elspeths final ability is relevant with humility I would say its more about making your factories/soldier tokens indestructable then humility per say. Now granted humility + elspeth is just wicked.
That said I did want to ask if people are more willing to sac at 8 or if they tend to go to 9 to keep her in play? I tend to go to 9 just to play carefully, but I don't know if theres a tempo difference. I also tend to make my tokens and be passive with them if my opponent has opposing mishra's or goyf or almost anything in play because for the most part I can wait them out and go inevitable like I said before.
Also has anyone tested relic in the main? My testing results of dif's list have been very successfull with it as goyf and tombstalker are a thriving part of the metagame right now.
thoughts? Feelings? Donations? j/k :)
-Joel.
I could see how relic would be useful in the main, but the problem is what would you cut from the main for it. I mean you already have 3 wraths, EE, and humility to deal with those creatures.
Landstill is HIGHLY interchangable unlike some other decks in this format, and one of the key bonus's is that there really is no limit to where this deck can go. "see dreadstill." Bottom line if you want to metagame correctly then it can very well be the dtb at any tourney.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Mafia
I wouldn't dismiss her first ability that much; I mean, she's a Bitterblossom for godsakes! Granted, that's not a reason to run Bitterblossom, but her 3rd ability is reason enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
I tend to crack her on 8 when I have a DoJ or 2nd Humility in hand or if I'm facing Grips. It makes sense to crack her ASAP then.
I dont know if it's even worth it. The ends justify the means to me enough to keep her alive most of the time I would say. Especially against decks packing stifle. And alot of people out there playing random decks know that if they dont use their grips quick they just sit in their hand as dead cards as more then likely im not going to give up the prize after ive seen the bait in the previous game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
bottom line I totally agree with elspeth and all of my playtesting shows its amazing, but the question remains 1-2. Alot of lists ive seen run 1, but I do usually feel like 2 for the standard lists is a must.
It shouldn't matter really, because your Factories are indestructible then. Even if they do Stifle your DoJ, you still have more better creatures than they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
I playtested with 2 copies of Elspeth. She's amazing. Only problem is actually finding copies of her and having them be affordable. I refuse to spend 30 bucks on a magic card right now though. I already bought the staples, so yeah...Quote:
bottom line I totally agree with elspeth and all of my playtesting shows its amazing, but the question remains 1-2. Alot of lists ive seen run 1, but I do usually feel like 2 for the standard lists is a must.
Didn't he mean someone Stifled Elspeth, when you remove eight of eight counters??Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
BB
I don't think you can Stifle Planeswalkers. I'm not completely sure of this atm, but if it does, then it really just comes down to what decks you play against. I can see myself moving up to 9 counters pre-board, but post-board, I might be more aggressive with Elspeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benie Bederios
You can absolutely stifle the activated abilities on planeswalkers.
Therefore you can even Needle them :/Quote:
Originally Posted by GUnit
I would hope I wouldn't be a bad enough player to walk into a stifle on my ultimate activation.
I found a post about planeswalker's abilities being activated if you want to do a quick read.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...t=planeswalker
I don't understand why Konsultant's list does not include sensei's divining top...
The card has been my MVP every game I have played in the last two months.
It does everything this decks needs:
1. early landdrops
2. lategame push
3. plays under standstill amazingly
The card has been nutz, especially since it allows me to run a slightly lower land count (23 from 24, not big, but still), and it allows me to play the powerhouse of a card we know as counterbalance in the board.
Counterbalance usually comes in for humilities/Wogs against combo/burn, and it usually works out great as the curve lowers with its' inclusion... and it shuts them down (plus I also run runed halo for those MUs as well)...
Combo has been amazing for me postboard as of late.
I also want to discuss elseph...
I tested her for a couple of days, and I didn't like her too much... It felt like I was simply stallblocking with the tokens until I could get something else... she was great w/ humility, but that doesn't really matter as you usually just win with humility anyways.
I think that she is not worth the slot IMO, at least not for my metagame.
I would rather bring in Runed Halo and Meddling mage over counterbalance. counterbalance is awesome but it requires top. Where as Halo or MM requires just one card to be effective.
Although top could be a good inclusion into the deck.
And as for elspeth, the card is amazing. It pumps out blockers if needed. and makes the mirror a joke. Not only if it gets to 8 you win but it makes factories and such able to deal a lot of damage. It is amazing under standstill. I am in love with the card.
Is Meddling Mage better than Runed Halo in the side?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Mafia
I'm just really scared of AngelStaX. Other than Sacred Ground, what else is good against them?
I'm going to play a pretty big tourney upcoming sunday with landstill,
Its my first time I play it, so I dont have that much expirience with the deck. Is this a good list:
4xbrainstorm
4xstandstill
2xfact or fiction
4xswords to plowshares
3xwrath of god
3xengineered explosives
2xhumility
3xdecree of justice
2xeternal dragon
4xforce of will
3xcounterspell
3xspell snare
4xtundra
1xunderground sea
1xscrubland
3xflooded strand
3xunderground sea
4xmishra's factory
3xwasteland
2xisland
2xplains
side:
2xajani, goldmane
3xmeddling mage
3xruned halo
3xrelic of progenitus
4xengineered plague
Altough I have a pretty random meta, I excpect this decks wil show up the most:
goblins, tes, dreadstill, aggroloam, counterbalance thresh and team america.
Is this a good build for this meta or not?
Because it doesn't follow the thoery that you want to play landstill around. Namely the mana you spend sorting out your manipulation along with minus one card is mana better spend and a card better spent that can both cantrip and or get you something you need now vs something that costs you to use its 2nd ability."Quote:
Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
@electrolyze: that list looks extremely good to combat that meta. You have 4 underground seas in your list with no main deck black you can just run more basics to beat the vase amount of non basic land in your meta
I think 3 U Seas should be Deltas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrolyze
take out the ep add in x3 hydro "1x blue emental blast, 2x hydro." also add in a fourth relic to the side.
To me your list looks very generic as far as it's approach, and lack of vindicate or cunning wish really leaves you wanting more. Also the lack of ruins or any utility lands is also going to leave you wanting more. At worst this is the landbase you probobly should be running.
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [TE] Wasteland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [9E] Plains (3)
4 [10E] Island (3)
This is if you don't like utility though. But honestly I would advise against playing wasteland period. If it were me this would be my land base for your deck.
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [9E] Plains (3)
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
4 [10E] Island (3)
This gives you utility under standstill and also the ability to grab answers at will. Its a much more aggressive approach as dustbowl can win you games basicly alone, and academy ruins ee lock is just phenominal.
as far as your maindeck goes your not running cunning wish or vindicate or countertop which really hurts you preboard to lame shenanigans.
Cleaning up your deck is essential for a strong running machine.
Without making dramatic changes to your deck i would say cutt the access fat of this deck. I found 6 "fat" that could deffinately be cutt to make a smoother running more consistent curve as well as more powerfull options.
I took out
-1 counterspell
-1 Decree
-1 Standstill
-1 EE
-1 Fact or fiction
-1 Humility
Now you have some options with these cutts. You can -a- go tool boxish build and if you decide to do that I would STRONGLY reccomend Wish as a 2 of. If you shy away from wish you probobly could go with a more down to earth true 2 color model and run 4 standstills. As for my approach this is how I would go:
// Creatures
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 [SC] Eternal Dragon
// Spells
1[IA] Counterspell
2 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
4 [OD] Standstill
1 [SHM] Runed Halo
1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [TE] Humility
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [8E] Wrath of God
4 [OV] Swords to Plowshares
As for the counterbase it goes against what I have been taught and believe in "+8 counters in landstill" but it was down to runed halo and 1 counterspell and counterspell won for the two color "basicly" model.
The list I've been playing for quite some time and have had alot of success with is Dif's experimental list.
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [UNH] Plains
3 [UNH] Island
3 [JGC] Mishra's Factory
4 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
// Creatures
3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Spells
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
3 [LRW] Ponder
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [TE] Humility
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [SHM] Runed Halo
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
2 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Return to Dust
SB: 1 Relic of pro- blahblah "you get the point."
Thanks guys for the imput. Oh, and the 3 sea's supposed to be delta's indeed:laugh: But i changed it to 4 floodeds and 2 delta's since i dont run basic swamp and maindeck black cards.
I really know vindicate is good but i really wanted a 3th wog. I discovered that goblins can be really pitty so i guess that would be the same against elves and maybe random aggro decks too. And I wanted humility either, because I think loam decks can be hard sometimes too(if they go stronghold, genesis, witness etc. and recur the whole bunch.)
About the manabase,
I like ruins, dust bowl and that kind of things in the base, because i dont have that much expirience witht he deck I dont know what is better. Should I leave the 3 wastelands in the deck or should I add dust bowl and ruins?
I saw Konsultant's list running 3 wasteland but other lists dust bowl and ruins(and maybe tolaria west).
It's really preferance and I prefer toolbox more then anything. I can tell you this much. I would NEVER go x3 wasteland with the current success i've had.
Running 3 wasteland (as usual in landstill before Dif suggested dust bowl last year, and then everybody runs dust bowl) has a purpose in konsultant's list. Dust bowl allows the deck to plan a more long-term game and to be less dependant on crucible of worlds. But i would never pair it with only 3 mishra... I've seen deck running 1 dust 1 waste 4 mishra 1 mutavault and that's fair better vs mirror. Anyway, dust bowl goes well in a deck which abuses of decree of justice and cantrips, and is more defensive then offensive since the cost it requires is pretty high. Landstill does no more run 3 waste because land destruction is no more a must for it (and, as already said, tends to make the deck too much dependant on crucible, and therefore crucible became an utility from the bomb it was before dust bowl). With vindicate, the deck finds a new support for land destruction (which hits basics as well as nonbasics) and tends to be more aggresive on the board. For this gameplan, dust bowl is less effective then 3 wastelands. I'm wondering the same things in these days, as I'm studyin the list I've suggested. I would go to 5-6 basics, but i can't cut the wastes simply because they naturally fit in a deck with vindicate, while dust bowl is antisynergystic. I'm also thinking about a compromise: 1 dust+1 waste. But if you run a deck with vindicate, and you test it, you'll feel that you want to go back to the way landstill was played two years ago, and especially in vintage, where land destruction/mana denial was its key for the victory. I'm not saying that waste is far better than dust bowl, but they are conceived for two different styles of play. You want to be more aggressive and run vindicate? 3 waste is what you need. You want a solid deck with many basics to have some advantage on decks that run LD like 3sh team gobbos? add lots of basics and run monodust (and academy ruins, for sure!), that's great!
These are the 2 versions i'm working on:
instant [18]
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery [7]
2 Decree of Justice
3 Vindicate
2 Wrath of God
enchantment [3]
3 Standstill
artifact [4]
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
land [24]
1 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
planeswalker [5]
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace Beleren
61 card
SB: in progress. maybe:
1 tormod
2 ajani/humility/relic/halo
3 mage/eplague
The differences between the other are in fact very small, and the do regard the number of waste, the presence or absence of dragon and dust. Like this:
creature [1]
Eternal Dragon
land [24]
1 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
I really like dragon, in this list is very efficient. The cut of the 4th tundra is still to be tested, but if I plan to play many basics this shouldn't be a problem. I need the basic swamp for vindicate, especially in matches like gobbo where cruci can be sided out. Still, i miss humility, but vindicate is really amazing...
For the record, I recommended Dust Bowl to DIF...Quote:
Originally Posted by gustha
Also, I'd rather have 3 Wastelands against the mirror match and Dreadstill. They're just better for the manland/Standstill war. You also have a reason to keep Standstills post-board. Also, Extirpate + Wasteland on Mishra's Factory is a savage play. It's also crippling against Dreadstill.
Wastelands also do a better job at killing random shit like Rishadan Port against Vial Goblins or Tomb lands against Prison.
I agree wastelands, are just faster. They help keeping TA off Double Black as well. And I have played games against them where dropping a sea, keeps them on land screw for many turns.
So, if you play vindicate you probably better can play wastelands? But if i dont play vindicate, dust bowl and ruins are better?
For what mu's are vindicate(+wasteland eventually) good?
And for what mu's is dust bowl better?
1. wasteland is not an eventuality with vindicateQuote:
Originally Posted by electrolyze
2. ruins is not an option, but a MUST.
Answering to your question, I feel like the lis with windicate improves the MU against aggro-aggrocontrol in general, and slightly against ichori. burn is still a pain preboard. Also, is fairly good in mirror, and I haven't tested yet against combo. The bowl version = the tutor/wish version, which I think is more suited for slower or specifically aggro metas.
But isn't this a lategame based deck?Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
The way that I use the card might be a little different than you think I use it...
Usually we will not have a first turn play, which is where it may come in...
Most of the time, I will plop it down once I have dealt w/ their initial onslaught of cards/threats... it allows me to set-up a much stronger lategame against the mirror (getting much more CQ over time, especially w/ dragon&fetches)... it also allows me to not run out of answers against agro (digging in the mid-late gameif need be)... it also keeps my hand chaff free in a lot of MUs, allowing me to have a hand full of removal against agro, and a hand full of counters against combo; not to mention hitting ALL of my landdrops without fail.
The additional bonus of CB in the board allows me to shut down both burn (tough MU, it answers all their cards instead of just a few which is where beb lacks) and combo (they don't just bounce it and go off, or kill it w/ grapeshot like the mage sometimes).
I could be totally off-base, but these cards have been amazing for me in my metagame... I just cannot see why people would not want to play them.
Or perhaps they just have not considered it yet.
Yes this is a late game deck, But the problem is getting to the game. Once that happens you should win
Depending upon what your talking about for a wish lists there is deffinately a strong difference in how different wish lists play. As an example the list Im playing now has a much stronger game against aggro control decks that run tombstalker/ tarmogoyf or anything graveyard base like ichorid or even survival because of maindeck relic's as well as vendilion clique on loam ect. You need to specify which type of wish still your refering too. My weaker game is against the pure control decks like mono blue control or decks that specificly hoze blue based control decks like merfolk.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustha
As far as wasteland is concerned I cant possibly think of a reason to run 3 wasteland along with 4 mishras and an academy ruins. thats 8 colorless sources!!! Terrible mana fixing if you ask me. Your just begging to get hurt by running 23 lands with that kind of a base. Dustbowl is better in the mirror because it allows you to stay consistent with your colors as well as having multiple uses under standstill without the aid of crucible.
There's an error: i meant wastelnad is a must with vindicate, for the reasons explained above. Bust bowl obv is good in a list like cunningstill which uses to hide behind standstill (while vindicate-still is, for its nature, more aggressive on the board. That's also why I really like jace as 2nd PW). And no, i think that there's no different approach of cunningstill, you simply put 3 relics MD in a classic list, i really see no different approaches besides the sb has a little changed. imho there are now 3-4 different approaches:Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
1) cunningstill
2) "e-tutor"-still
3) cunning+e tutor
4) "vindicate"-still
You're simply trying to improve Mu against decks that abuses of grave and tarmo's and stalker's, not introducing a brand new branch of landstill, imho. I guess that if your meta were full of brainless aggro and there were no trace of grave.dec nor tarmo etc., you'll simply play the solid and slow cunning-list.
You could have made that sound alot better then making wish still soundQuote:
Originally Posted by gustha
as thats pretty much what they all do. Just because vindicate-still runs 3x wasteland and a sorcery speed permanant disruptor doesnt make it any better at being aggresive then thw wish still variant that I run. In fact I beg to differ that the list I presented you with is actually much more aggresive in the red zone and has a better overall gameplan then vindicate-still has generally speaking. The trade is actually cost for efficiency "mana base for cost" if you will. I choose cost, some choose efficiency. Lets break it down simple style for you little soldier.Quote:
like a deck that hides under standstill
Vindicate still has to run additional black sources "more then 1 sea 1 scrubland" to make their vindicates playable upon drawing them. the reason wish still plays only 1-1 for black splits is because the splash is incredibly light and used for ee and/ or extirpate if you need it. It's a timing land if you will vs something you actually do need to obtain in the game. So while vindicate lists more then likely run 2-2 split and/or additional fetches they still weaken their mana base to obtain that third color splash. Now lets talk about this wasteland issue people keep bringing up
Not to mention the differences in colored mana sources versus non-colored mana source.
3 mishra
1 dust
1 ruins
1 tolaria west
vs
4 mishra
3x wasteland
1 ruins.
Notice something interesting here? How about that vindicate still complicates its mana base with count them 8 sources of colorless lands to suit their color intensive mana base that they already have. Now granted there will always be situations where wasteland is superior to dustbowl, but as a general principle I would take dustbowl in most of these situations simply because it doesn't require you to have additional copies or a completely wacky manabase. .[/QUOTE]
lets talk about the 3-4 different approaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustha
While we are at it why dont we add in versions that run replenish and opalescence as well. I mean were counting e tutor still whatever the hell that is. Oh thats the list you made up about 4 pages back. Right. Well as far as difference approaches are concerned I wouldnt count some homebrew you just randomly put together and called a solid list something to concieve as top tier without testing against a wider variety of opponents. If you'd REALLY like to know the different approaches that are concievable lets go back to the drawing board. Officially when you scan this thread you see 3 different approaches.
1. 3c Countertop still
2. 3c Vindicate still
3. 3c wish Still
Then you have four color models as well:
1. 4c_wish_still "deed LFTL humility variant"
2. 4c Tacosnape "his original version with 2 md krosan grip and diabolic edicts I believe"
3. 4c with goyf and tombstalker "recent adaption that placed. Similar to tacos list"
4. 4c counter top "I believe this is similar to TEC the epic control"
So now that you've bashed this list twice and said how its "classic" but 3 md relics, lets prove you wrong again and show you how much different this list actually is then other lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustha
Since we have already talked about the landbase theres no reason to post it.
Ill bold anything thats different then "classic" lists.
// Creatures
3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant "its a 1 of not 2 in this list"
// Spells
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
3 [LRW] Ponder
3 [OD] Standstill "normal lists play 4"
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction "the last time this was played in wish still was in the board of the 4c versions when I first picked up this deck."
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [TE] Humility
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives "normally a 3 of"
1 [SHM] Runed Halo "normally not played in the md"
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
2 [DIS] Spell Snare "normally a 3 of"
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
oh and also note a lack of counterspell. I hear optimal builds of landstill now a days dont run +8 counters.
This version is classic though as you know other then the 3 relics. right? "extreme sarcasm."
If you have any further comments about the list I run feel free to pm me and we can flame all night over pms. I will no longer be defending over the dtb forum. Thanx.
P.S. Please feel free to remove head from ass.
Yawn, play with what works. There are definitely differences between running cunning wish and not running cunning wish. If you want to run the best removal suite the format has to offer in vindicate, swords, ee, wrath then by all means. If you want to run the best search spell besides maybe intuition than run cunning wish. I prefer running more answers than "fat." Whatever deck you choose to run should fit your play style.
Notice how you win more mirror matches and random mana screws with 3 Wastelands? Also notice how you're arguing against great results from a great player with a great deck? Notice how you only use Wasteland to destroy random shit early game so that dropping a Standstill isn't a nuisance? Notice how you can keep Standstills in post-board? Notice how you don't have to run Academy Ruins? Notice how Geoff Smelski actually has a Sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
As for your comment about how optimal lists of Landstill doesn't run 8 counters, this is not completely true at all. Geoff Smelski runs 8 hard counters, Rockout probably still run 8 hard counters, Tacosnape runs 8 card counters and I still run 8 hard counters.
P.S. You're condescending. Now you're just flaming Gustha. If he wants to be ignant, let him be ignant. If you think you're right, then it's his mistake for taking this approach to Landstill and making the mistake of not "listening" to you.
From what I've seen so far, Gustha has only questioned you, and you're just hostilely answering him with a huge amount of aggravation. The point of a forum is to debate, and you're just attacking him at this point. This doesn't take discussion anywhere, really.
P.P.S. Landstill has always been aggressive and in the "Red Zone." Haven't you ever casted a DoJ for 2 Angel tokens against RGSA or other random dorky decks? Have you ever boarded Counterbalance in just did a Dreadstill approach and just concentrate on disruption and getting Counterbalance active as you bash your opponent with Factories? Emphasizing your game plan more on the red zone against aggro is just a recipe for disaster. Landstill is at heart a UW Control deck. You should be using those board control elements to good use. And you can't make a broad claim that 4c Landstill isn't a UW Control deck, their game plan and principles are the same; control the board, chain draw and build up card advantage and quality, and win when convenient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
I think we all need to calm down a little bit, as eeyone seems petty upset ight now...
Clique in landstill?
How does that wok out?