[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

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Originally Posted by Fatal

Just to slow - that one mana changes everything ~this~ vs metalworker:
- Worker can just tap for mana and you can cast multiple threads
- ~this require 4 more mana - compare it to quicksilver amulet - similar effect for creatures and see 0 play in legacy (lol - it was reprinted - I remember that card from Urza's Legacy).

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it's application is a bit broader than quicksilver as it can put planeswalkers and non-creature artifacts too; it can be used as a pseudo caverns or to bypass gaddock teeg (if you cast it before teeg enters play), meddling mage and sanctum prelate. You can put a ratchet bomb against those pesky entreated angels, spine something, put contagions engine to stop elves combo, etc
I'll probably try 1 or 2 MD for the hype. It may not be as good as I think as I've been wrong before, but it seens worth trying.

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Originally Posted by Silverflame

Hello Jorruk, please post more often if you're able, every input is important.
About the czech, they are very weak against land disruption, so any wastelands or sorcerous spyglass on their fetch can be fatal. Also they have zero ways to remove an Ugin. Since they're a grindy deck, I try to ramp with a trinisphere into wurmcoil or ugin. Use caverns for construct or wurm, as you may need ballista to remove strix and pws. You should be slightly favored against them.

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I will definitely try to :)
I just tried something a bit different on cockatrix yesterday with a build containing MD 2 Walking ballista and 2 thorn of amethyst (-1 kuldotha, -1 sundering titan, -1 trinisphere, -1 spyglass)
I played against :
- unknown : didn't played any spell the 2 games
- goblins (horrible MU) : lost 2 matchs, 2-0 and 2-1. This deck is just quicker than us and doesn't really care of chalice. It was a spicy deck with kikki-jikki.
The deck basically consisted of goblin lackey/vial t1. Then goblins with goblin lackey effect but double strike.
Lots of annoying goblins : enter the BF : destroy target land/destroy target artifact etc etc
- BR Reanimator
G1 : on the play I cast a thorn of aemethyst followed by a T2 metalworker. He casts a T3 Griselbrand. T4 I cast a blightsteel colossus. His T4 : draw 14 with grisel + faithless looting flashback + double dark ritual into a creature. I pinged myself too much with AT, I have to draw a staff of domination or a flyer to win the race. => nope
G2 : T1 chalice on 1, T2 thorn, T3 lodestone, T4 lodestone => win
G3 : T1 thorn, T2 thorn and ... stuck a 2 lands for 5 turns with a hand full of lodestone, metalworker, staff and wurmcoil ...
-Miracle : chalice unforced and thorn + cavern wins me the game. G2 was similar with T4 Ugin that is almost unbeatable for miracle.

I was a bit sceptical about walking ballista but it is in fact marvelous. It is either a big threat or a "burn". Plus I am less enclined to regret cavern on construct with this creature in the deck. The MD thorns are usefull but are also depending a lot on the MU. Against a grindy deck it can be very great whereas against a deck like merfolk/goblins/D&T it is just a dead card

So, lets recap Dominaria

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/t...rgeofkroog.jpg

Pretty juicy beater, we are likely to get it to swing every turn, and it should get us the game in 3/4 swings, maybe we can build a less heavy creature based staxx with this, lodestone, metalworker and some copies of wurmcoil

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/dampingsphere3.jpg

Pretty bad imho, the spheres we have already are just better, also turning off our sol lands is no good

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/weatherlight.jpg

Bad imho, too hard to crew properly (not wasting a bigger creature), also the effect is not that relevant, if we are swinging for 4 we dont really need to impulse to win

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/karnscionofurza2.jpg

Imho a new must for MUD, easily a 4 of in any single list, this card gives us:
- a CA engine, and we really need to play some
- 4 drop that is hella hard to interact with, not being an artifact is a plus imho, if we get this dude on board turn 2 is almost impossible to get rid of it
- a compact finisher, so we dont have to bother with having actual wincons in the deck other than karn
- board presence, 2 karn tokens should be enough to stall the board
- possibly, a rather quick race, turn 2 karn into token into token can kill by turn 6 probably, which may help in some MU


I built a karn list, 0 tests so far because it's playing with dominaria, but it looks promising

// 60 Maindeck
// 31 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
3 Smokestack
1 Trading Post
3 Trinisphere
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Crucible of Worlds
2 Meekstone
1 Bottled Cloister

// 25 Land
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Buried Ruin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Dunes of the Dead
4 Rishadan Port

// 4 Planeswalker
4 Karn, Scion of Urza


// 15 Sideboard
// 12 Artifact
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 2 Caltrops
SB: 1 Cursed Totem
SB: 2 Uba Mask
SB: 2 Welding Jar
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 3 Silent Gravestone

// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Lodestone Golem



Not sure on those 1 drops, but i think is fine to play meekstone, i like the idea to have a cheap anti delver card, but its also true that meekstone is blank against pyromancer, i am currently testing ports over quarters, but I'm ready to switch back to them anytime.
Feel free to give any imput on the list.

Hey, been thinking hard about dominaria cards. Karn seems good in a dedicated stax deck, but i feel like yiu have too many 1 drops. Remember the t1 should 100pct be prison. This may negate you ever playing a meekstone. Dunno about that. Also 4 karn seems like overload. You really should still run ugin, for utility if nothing else. Its quasi the same reason i dont run volt key.

2. That sphere is going to be annoying. I feel like it is going to be a minimum 2x in many sbs for storm, anyway, and peripherally hurts dump hand decks, and then also will come in vs us. Dunno if that warrants having thran dynamos or 4x monolith, but it is a consideration.

3. Servant seems basic ok. It dies to all creature removal tho, so id avoid it. Part of the fun of the deck is that lodestone should cost minimum 3 to bolt, or otherwise dodge with a chalice, and it or worker are the easiest creatures to kill. A t1 servant is just getting immediately murdered. Maybe better in the ravager build if it goes midrangey, but it isn't where they wanna be either.

4. Traxos seems like a pretty ok t2 or 3 play. It is going to make the best impact as a 1x. Remember it is legendary, and has no tertiary abilities other than a trample clock. Possibly better in a sb for non interactive games. Dunno. Its a new reveal and havent had a lot of time to think about it.

Non dominaria stuff, silverflame, how did you find scrap trawler? Ive been considering it for vs control and removal heavy decks.

2. Depths absolutely runs both ad and at least 1 grip. Thank god they have no effective way of tutoring for them. G1, a platinum emperion is indeed usually gg, because they effectively usually have no way of removing him. Edicts and grip come in from the sb.

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Originally Posted by malfie13

Non dominaria stuff, silverflame, how did you find scrap trawler? Ive been considering it for vs control and removal heavy decks.

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The meta I play is usually infested with grindy decks, and in these matches, it is very good. Usually I get at least a chalice or ballista back, but sometimes it gets a lodestone or wumrcoil and that's where it shines. I'm still waiting for the blow out of saccing kuldotha and activating it several times, but it was never that relevant. The other option I thought for that slot was Foundry Inspector that is also a good early blocker and overall easier to generate value, although less powerful.

I'm pretty sure i'm slotting in 2 New Karns over Wurmcoils. Wurmcoils have been lackluster for me since picking up MUD again. I'll be testing up to 3 when Dominaria hits the shelves. As a test right now, I've removed Wurmcoils from my list and haven't found a need to put them back. I find that the life gain from posts and Fair gets me to survive until Plat.

On another note, I've been struggling to beat RG lands.

Traxos is a beast. I'd consider it a 3-off.

Zhalfirin Void -> I see this as a 4-off. Selection is what MUD lacks. This has no realistic drawbacks. I love the card.

Karn -> Not too bullish on Karn. It's a pimped out Grafted Skullcap. I'd rather have a 7/7 trample and close the game out for 4 mana

So, this is the kind of Traxos list I would like to try


//Lands
4 [TMP] Ancient Tomb
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [EXO] City of Traitors
1 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
1 [KLD] Inventors' Fair
1 [LEG] Karakas
4 [ATQ] Mishra's Factory
4 [TMP] Wasteland

//Spells
2 [NPH] Batterskull
4 [MRD] Chalice of the Void
1 [KLD] Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 [ULG] Grim Monolith
4 [DOM] Karn, Scion of Urza
3 [MRD] Lightning Greaves
3 [NEM] Tangle Wire
4 [DST] Trinisphere

//Creatures
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
4 [UDS] Metalworker
4 [DOM] Traxos, Scourge of Kroog


The idea is to play on a lower curve and to try to win as fast as possible.

Karn should be pretty good in this deck just as token generator, -2 twice is pretty good and likely to spawn at least 4/4s or 5/5s.
Traxos is likely to have no real drawback here, we dont really need tools to untap him, we are likely to just naturally have enough artifacts to just keep him swinging.
both lightning greaves and tangle wire are here to make our clock as reliable as possible, greaves should be super good in this list, we are likely to have a creature to play, and both haste and shroud is relevant.
Not sure about BS as the top of the curve, both it and fleetwheel may underperform.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

On another note, I've been struggling to beat RG lands.

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G1, 2 or ever? I have a lot of experience playing both as and vs lands. I may be able to help.

I am the absolute last person who would ever be Grudge someone for trying something slightly different then an establish deck. and I see where you're going and I definitely like it, but what I don't see is what the Tangled wires add. Why not some other prison peice, like a sphere or thorn, or a different threat or removal? Dunno. Thought and playtesting seem necessary.

Are any of us betting on a drs banning incoming, and what changes if it happens?

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Originally Posted by malfie13

G1, 2 or ever? I have a lot of experience playing both as and vs lands. I may be able to help.

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Thanks in advance. I used to be able to beat RG lands before I stopped playing MUD 2 years ago. I used 4 Needles and 2 Bridges in the SB, and Chalice on 2. They were running more Ports then and little to no Ghost Quarters back then. I haven't taken a single game playing 3 different people on RG lands since I picked up MUD. I would find Needle, name Wasteland, then opponent would go plan B with Ghost Quarter, which is one of the new additions that came as a surprise, and lock me out. I would have Leyline, but opponents would either have the Grip or beat me with Tracker and lock me out with the LD they draw anyways.

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

Thanks in advance. I used to be able to beat RG lands before I stopped playing MUD 2 years ago. I used 4 Needles and 2 Bridges in the SB, and Chalice on 2. They were running more Ports then and little to no Ghost Quarters back then. I haven't taken a single game playing 3 different people on RG lands since I picked up MUD. I would find Needle, name Wasteland, then opponent would go plan B with Ghost Quarter, which is one of the new additions that came as a surprise, and lock me out. I would have Leyline, but opponents would either have the Grip or beat me with Tracker and lock me out with the LD they draw anyways.

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This has been my experience as well. We could just wait out the Ports (or Tsabo’s Web them), but as Wastelands 5-8, GQ is pretty brutal.

Spyglass hugely helpful, though, as a Needle that’s much more likely to bail you out of what your opponent actually has.

If Lands is big locally, I’d recommend constructing your board with it in mind. I’m in the same situation, and I board in 2 Coercive Portal, 2 Crucible, 2 Spyglass (in addition to 2 in the main), 2 Tsabo’s Web, and 3 Tormod’s Crypt. Basically you wind up as shitty Stax in games 2 and 3, which feels decent to me.

I totally agree with you, it is one of our toughest MU. Usually my main goal is to cast a chalice x = 2 as soon as possible to limit the recursive wasteland/GQ.
Sometimes I play the "fun" sideboard that takes a lot of our sideboard card : 4 leyline of the void, 3 helm of obedience + 1 urborg in the main instead of a vesuva. For now it has been pretty good against Lands and Show and tell (just helms) it's always fun to take a grisel/emrakul from your opponent's deck.

Anyway as it was previously mentionned, the best cards for the MU are sorcerous spyglasses, chalice on 2, grave hate. I'm not playing crucible in the SD in the current meta filled of DRS, and against lands usually they are already eating two of your lands per turn so crucible is not enough.

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Originally Posted by malfie13

I am the absolute last person who would ever be Grudge someone for trying something slightly different then an establish deck. and I see where you're going and I definitely like it, but what I don't see is what the Tangled wires add. Why not some other prison peice, like a sphere or thorn, or a different threat or removal? Dunno. Thought and playtesting seem necessary.

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Agreed, it's a nombo with Traxos and trinisphere. Maybe thorn instead.

Has anyone thought of the new Karn as a 1 of instead of coercive portal / staff / bottled cloister in the classic shell ?
I think it's not a bad idea as it's harder to deal with it compared to an artifact and it's more versatile. It can pop tokens against a liliana deck / diabolic edict and lets you virtually draw more cards.

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Originally Posted by Jorruk

Has anyone think of the new Karn as a 1 of instead of coercive portal / staff / bottled cloister in the classic shell ?
I think it's not a bad idea as it's harder to deal with it compared to an artifact and it's more versatile. It can pop tokens against a liliana deck / diabolic edict and lets you virtually draw more cards.

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I'm gonna test 2-3 karns as it is better as a multiple, the second ability can get cards exiled with other karns. Not sure what else to cut for it, though.

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Originally Posted by Silverflame

I'm gonna test 2-3 karns as it is better as a multiple, the second ability can get cards exiled with other karns. Not sure what else to cut for it, though.

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I think all our 4 mana drop are mandatory except coercive portal, we can't really cut lodestone golem. I don't know your list but personnaly I run 3 kuldotha, as I am convinced the time we have 3 artifacts on board we would have drawn a kuldotha forgemaster. I usually dislike sacrificing trinisphere/chalice/thorn so I don't sacrifice Kuldotha very quickly. Except some exceptions like when you have a metalworker and 3+ artifact in hand and you are quite sure you can go for staff combo kill.
Maybe I will also try to run 2-3 karn just for testing and then I will see what's the best.

On another subjet, is anyone from Europe ?
I will go to the eternal weekend in Paris at the beginning of May. I hope to do somethings great as I already have two byes :)

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Originally Posted by Jorruk

I think all our 4 mana drop are mandatory except coercive portal, we can't really cut lodestone golem. I don't know your list but personnaly I run 3 kuldotha, as I am convinced the time we have 3 artifacts on board we would have drawn a kuldotha forgemaster. I usually dislike sacrificing trinisphere/chalice/thorn so I don't sacrifice Kuldotha very quickly. Except some exceptions like when you have a metalworker and 3+ artifact in hand and you are quite sure you can go for staff combo kill.
Maybe I will also try to run 2-3 karn just for testing and then I will see what's the best.

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my list is this one.
I already shaved everything I don't wanna see in multiples. So basically it would be Portal and Trawler, that are the most situational cards.

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Originally Posted by Jorruk

I will go to the eternal weekend in Paris at the beginning of May.

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Good luck there, wish you do well :)

Yeah I totally agree with you.
My list (below) is very similar to yours. The main difference is that I don't run Spyglasses MD but instead thorn of amethyst. I enjoyed the 2 lists but with a metagame filled of Delver & 4c control (or at least the DRS - Ponder - BS - FoW shell) I really enjoyed these cards. Of course a well placed wasteland can destroy us but I hope to get a quick grim monolith in those MU.

On another topic I have started to fill a "result sheet" that allows me to keep statistics with different MU. It is only recent so for now it doesn't say a lot but you can take a look here if you want. I can also send an excel file by private message if needed.

List :

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// MAIN DECK (60)
// Arpenteurs (2)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Créatures (19)
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
2 Walking Ballista
1 Blightsteel Colossus
// Sorts (15)
1 Coercive Portal
1 Staff of Domination
1 Trinisphere
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
// Terrains (24)
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Wasteland
4 Glimmerpost
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Inventor's Fair
// SIDE DECK (15)
SB: 1 Duplicant
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Orbs of Warding
SB: 1 Coercive Portal
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Warping Wail

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