you know I always try to find excuses to play Orims Silence....Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I really would like this to be used also for island MU
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you know I always try to find excuses to play Orims Silence....Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I really would like this to be used also for island MU
Gold Lands are bad, three colour deck is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
In all seriousness the deck can still cast a D7 vs Island.dec in order to reset and build up a manabase if it's too late to Empty the Warrens. If you want to play it more vs Island.dec, then I think you can SB in Hope of Ghirapur.
I had a lot of thoughts about Echo the Eons, so I wrote an article: https://theepicstorm.com/card-review-echo-the-eons/
I had more or less the same thoughts, I don't think Faithless Looting is needed at all tho' because you're probably never going to cast Echo of Eons by hand anyway. I doubt cons 2 and 5 are relevant, it's a "3cc" card that exiles itself so how much it costs to hard cast isn't important and the 6cc won't burn you on a Ad Nauseam flip. Echo of Eons just makes Burning Wish a better gold fish, I'll take the added % vs D&T and its ilk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest Max Gilmore (@MXGOnline):! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.
https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-29/
It's possible that I went too deep with this one!
https://theepicstorm.com/surviving-the-karnpocalypse/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivarus
All I can say is:
a) to be quick - 2nd AN in the flex spot has been amazing for me, I took ideas from MMastery and now is making even the deck faster because of 2nd AN. Main, I am liking MMaster a lot.!
b) I am changing from 3 duress to 3 CTherapy main - it may sounbd strange but the unique match up you'll see you'll be more clnky is vs chalice decks, that is not a suggestion, that is my personal preference as I love Therapy, I always play it wheter in side or nmain, the idea about this is to hit several FoWs and after Narset, if you played some cantrips before, it iw better than duress. as said, sure if chalicedecks are everiwehre then duress is just better, I'll leave also some xantids or _Hope in my side as it is pretty tight as before I played 3 CTherpay in my side, now I'll leave 1 and 2 xantids...
What I will not do is to change any in my base because of karn or narset.
narset is good when played in 4th turn with fluster backup and 2 fows (1 took from narset)
karn is good if 4th chalice is in their side, but not likely. I can anticipate anyway and play B.W. > Pulverize as soon as i can.
EDIT: F.Fortune, well, you know, I have to disagree on this. I still can not determine if gold lands are bad.
EDIT 2: F.Fortune, why you say that with EE you have GY dependancy? I am having some ideas about a deck around this...
just my 2 cents.
So Scheming Symmetry is a sorcery speed mirrored Vampiric Tutor, seems like a way to abuse cantrip and LED interactions that could be useful in the SB for Burning Wish if not in the MD.
Ha ha ha that is my moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Time To Go Back to Orims/Silence definately!
long time ago that so many storm cards in a so brief period were released....
I really see the list clearly...
EDIT: Come on... was reading the spoiler and what about Veil of Summer...
EDIT 2: Again, I find EoE a very good card and also Scheming Symmetry, BUT ths new card - Veil of Summer - made me felt in a different way... Maybe I have understood badly this card... at its simplest It seems for me:
- 2x1 card by G mana vs Duress, Hymn, Therapy and all the discard in the world. :eek:
- 2x1 card by G mana vs Stifle! :cool:
- 2x1 card by G vs Sinkhole, Trophy, AD - well less important.
- cantrip if useless in opp. turn if casted blue or black spell
- Essentially Orims by G mana.
I really would like to play 4 in my TES deck of this card... which are your opinions on this card?
as said maybe I miss something... don't know... @F.Fortune this is better than your desired Orims in Red.!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Summer's Veil is format defining, I don't think it's worth adding G to the manabase for TES but that is the best protection a Belcher or Oops, All Spells deck could get. The card is hilarious vs Storm as well, cast Summer's Veil in response to Tendrils of Agony, counter their kill condition and draw a new hand … yeah … I think between Scheming Symmetry and Summer's Veil there has to be a B/G combo deck out there.
I
well you think it does not worth. I think backwards - the card is just the nuts. long time ago I didn't see a card with so much potential in TES...Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
this will be my first approach (I am so happy about that...):
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Scalding Tarn
3 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Silence (maybe 3 and 14th land - not sure on this...)
4 Veil of Summer
1 Scheming Symmetry
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 EoA
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 C.T / Duress
1 D.P
...
please, be good to me.
Lem? are you by here? I miss you... now time to discuss! come to here and be a man AntiGemstomes guy!
Any other who want to join to the discussion is well come.
Apart, I am seriously thinking in joining to the MTGO as MWStation is more often than not down.... but I don't like the money investment and therefore the competitiviness it involves for my opponents...
Everybody seems to play on MTGO right and not in MWstation, right?
you F.Fortune were not on MTGO right? I think the only ones are Mr. Bryant, wPreaux and that guy that looses because of having Island in main - dont remember his name... (sure and others).
Maybe it is time the raise of a New Online TESStormer... - I think I am getting old....
EDIT:I've been goldfishing with Scheming Symmetry and as I suspected didn't like the card too much... the thing is that you need a cantrip and ussualy the cantrips are used as setup, the goldsishing icnluded several hands with SS in it and always I've preferred 2nd AN as example, not sure if the card even deserves a slot in the Side... maybe in a shell with much more cantrips like ANT is good but not with only 8 cantrips...
any opinion on this?
More Legacy Storm!
https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-leag...orts-06-26-19/
This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest Brian Gallagher (Chhaam):! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.
https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-30/
I am merely a hobby stormer but i like Veil quite a lot. It’s great that it both has a reactive and a proactive mode. I like that it can reactively beat flusterstorm if you for example play AdN or empty from your hand. It’s great FOW bait if you play it in the dark and it enables safe Eons lines.
However i like TES more with the stable grixis manabase and i dont like that veil can’t be cast off a ritual.
I ultimately think it might be better in the slower, already green, cousine.
I was fortunate enough to win the Legacy Challenge today! You can check out all of my matches right here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jbI...zu8I5x_oA8syUf
Congrats! Looking forward to watching the vids to see how the 3 Mox Opal/2 Defense Grid maindeck treated you.
New video with version 7.5!
https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-leag...wAEnRMEparxtJw
Haven't really watched your videos before. Really nice to hear someone who doesn't talk with uptalk or vocal fry. Fun to watch.
Is this the deck where someone put Mentor in and then had their sideboard transformed?
Check it
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Thoughtseize
3 Empty the Warrens
3 Mox Opal
4 Ponder
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lotus Petal
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Chrome Mox
1 Swamp
4 Rite of Flame
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
4 Echoing Truth
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Pulverize
1 Dark Petition
3 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Duress
1 Echo of Eons
https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-leag...orts-07-27-19/
This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest TOM HEPP (NEGATOR77)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.
https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-31/
Hi all,
I just wanted to share my experiences last 2 torunaments with 2 diff. list with new technology - means from Narset, Karn, Echo and Veil era.
my 1st torunament after all those changes was - well a pet deck with 4 veils. I took a list with 13 lands - gold lands - 4 gemstone 2 CoB and - yes 1 U. Paradise - with 4 silence and 4 Veil. and 2 AN.
I was pretty sure I was not going to win that torunmanet because of obvious reasons:
- silence+veil require a tough manabase and cant be casted in same turn because of need of 3/4 diff. colours
- gold lands are old technology - but you know I always like to sometimes go back and see old things - likely nostalgic
- no pulverize
just to note that my last build of TES before narset and co was just 7discard - duress+t.seize and 2 AN 14 lands (fetch base). next thing I was going to make was just say goodby to duress and put those therapies main instead. but EoA, narset and co came to the meta.
things about this torunmanet was:
- won all of my 1st matchups except vs lands.
- lost to 2 agro decks - with arcanist, and likes - didn't see stifle
- lost to lands - thisbis weird - no many times this happened to me...
- won rest which was another blue deck and sneak - related to sneak - it was curious as I always found a tough match up, but this time seems that sneak players are sad because of narset and the deck became worse with less griselbrand... happy about that.
a note, when trying new things I always try things first that almost know they don't work and next I just discard those things which I am sure they don't work. well sometimes is just fun! who.
I also made a mistake with CoFlawers... I think I've been played bad this card during 5 years... really thought this was just like a SolRing with mana of whatever colour....
well 2nd tornament I moreless know what I wanted to play:
- still undecided about the manabase - 1st option was fetches no basics and 2 green producers - tropical and bayou for veils and likely 2 badlands - but didnt like because it didn't contain any swamp to make fetch-> swamp and the fecthes needed to be 2scalding 2 bloodstainer.
- then I decided that was going to try just 1 bayou - and see what happens, initially I would take bayou when needed and not landing bayou if expect wastelands and is not the turn when I'll intend to cast veil. so definately the manabse was 14 lands 1 sea, 2 v.island, 1 badlands, 1 swamp, 1 bayou 4 poll, 4 b.mire. seems perfect.
- the thing undecided was if 2nd AN or not, I would have swapped 4th t.seize or 4th veil, but well lets try a more straightforward TES build - 1 AN then.
- the thing missing was also the disruption package - really wanted to make room for Therapy but t.seize seems more logical and better as starting point of test - it seems the staple disruption for any storm deck... then it needed to be 4 veil and 4 t.seize.
then I reached the 2nd torunament with that list and well, I have to say that I made exact 3 mistakes in that event and even I won all of my matches beeing 3 on blue (mircles, 4color and miracles i think) and in finals 1 D&T.
I am incredible surprised on the power level of veil and also in conjunction with discard. I'll expose some examples:
- the worst case scenario is if it is not countered and you can not combo
- an scenario involved: opp.: unknown card and fow, pierce and as unkonwn card vendilion! I had LED, DR, 2nd veil, 2 IT and BS and some lands - I cast veil and opp. casted vendilion and decided to take out LED and allowed to resolve veil and you know what? I drew from veil. and even I didnt need to cast BS. to combo that turn. maybe I would have not get the combo that turn but you know what? I drew a card!
- another scneario involved snap to IoK and veil and draw! - combo next turn with therapy naming fow and not having it in hand.
- you can discard fow instead of discard and allow opp. to cast discard. and draw!
- veil is both reactively and proactive card
- t.seize+veil is the nuts
Veil is just great, It is infinitely better vs blue.decks and blue+black.decks than duress.
I just suggest you all to try this card, it is just amazing...
this is my base for reference:
// Lands
1 [U] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [A] Bayou
1 [RS] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [RAV] Swamp
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [M20] Veil of Summer
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
you know side is just the taste of each - mine has a lot of side cards and just 2 c.therapy (because i love this card...) and likely 4 bouncers
any opinion is just wellcome.
I don't think Summer's Veil is worth Bayou and don't understand why people are playing with Badlands, let alone 2, without Island.
I'm on a stock list and am more or less happy with the consistency approach - 2xCabal Therapy is a hedge vs SBed counter spells.
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Grape Shot
1 Void Snare
1 Massacre
1 Pulverize
1 Echo of Eons
1 Past in Flames
1 Telemin Performance
4 Echoing Truth
I haven't been impressed with Mox Opal, Defense Grid and Hope of Ghirapor, all of them feel like they are win more cards.
I am on holidays so I can elaborate:
well, don't know If you tested it or not, but I played some games in base in diff. contexts and I feel amazing about this card. I'll expose some scenarios:Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
the 1st context was 1st build between Silence and Veil - the problem in here is that both play the same role - I mean you can not fight several angles, with playing only discard this problem is solved - but you cannot interact with the stack and is proactive, then we go to:
the 2nd context - playing both Discard and Veil the problem is solved you can fight several angles and reactively on the stack - wow - the common scenarios were: you play discard and see fow and discard - usually you should take the discard and wait for answer later for fow. the scneario that occurred to me and some like this were:
- opp. played IoK and discarded some key card and I the same to FoW on 1-2 turns - later on 3th turn I cantripped and saw veils (CT in hand) then snap into IoK - then veils resolved and won next turn with CT > FoW (not in hand) BS into win. This is just an example.
Me neither... we at least are 0IslandInTES Men...Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
you are talking with a GoldLand lover man...
badlands - while not producing blue (thing I really hate) - provides all the colors you need in your deck except for 8 cards - I come from stable 12 blue producers (12 lands too from GP era) and I remember played with 8fetches with: 13 lands (2-2-1 no swamp still) and 14 (now with swamp). even with 2 swamps!! yes sorry (was because of wPreaux idea)...
there is a thing that I noted along the time playing TES - and you will agree with me - and is that Volcanic Island is the wost land in the deck (1st context build I played 1 VI...) I am not sure if it is worse than BL still - but contorting the manabase to accomodate to pulverize by playing 3 VI does not make sense to me at all.
I also think in the sequences about playing lands. Ex: If no other lands in hand other than fetch, then fetch to VI to ponder and dont want to see more VI.
I agree that most of the times when I want to ponder 1st turn the land will be VI or fetch to VI - even in my case that I play bayou I want more the VI than other land.
likely another cause I don't like having 3 VI is beeing surgicaled...
also while 2VI in opening hand is shit 1/1 VI BL is great
anyway - in my build maybe It makes more sense to play 3VI instead and 0BL.. really don't like so few blue producers (11 total!!! in other eras playing just 12lands had more chances...)... who knows... maybe next time I'll try like this and see how much I hate VI...
the curious thing is that you moreless reach the same base as me post side (prior to VoS)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
lately I am noticing that I don't really side out vs blue.decks in general... or if I side out something is just 1 ponder or 2nd AN or 1 CM... it is sad but that's it, the other day for example I took to the torunament CoF... now with Veil it is even more funny because really you have all the tools maindeck... I've ALWAYS played at its minimum 3 CT between main and side. and vs blue.decks in general I bring 2 CT and take out - depend on the feeling - 1CM and disrupt to bring them all - at its simplest I play 2nd games with 9 disruption - my latest iteration was: 1st games: 4TS 4VoS To: 3TS 4VoS 2CT (1TS to side) - and that's it - and really don't know even if it is neccesary or not...
I am sure you have your reasons but I would play 4TS 2D 2CT. My latest iteration was (prior to VoS): 4TS 3D 2AN and 3CT in side. My next approach would have been to bring 3CT instead of 3D and have more space to really tough match ups - mean TriniAndChalice decks.
Me on the other side I've been quite impressed how people play things just because of the fact that other people play those things. I think people need to reach conclusions by their own - on the competitiveness aspect is better for them and - also is funnier.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
If you want I can share you my own take on a MOpal list! but it has paradoxical outcome! just a funny note: - because the other day talking witha friend I told about the list but was built long time ago and worked somehow - but now with Narset - the list got worse...
There are 3 Volcanic Islands for a number of reasons, while Underground Sea is a better land than Volcanic Island in a vacuum the deck can fetch a permanent Black source as opposed to a permanent Red or Blue source so Underground Sea is less critical even if it is more efficient. Furthermore the value of Volcanic Island increases game 2 compared to Underground Sea, because the deck needs to be able to Burning Wish for Pulverize and Voidsnare as well as support Echoing Truths instead of discards vs hate or 3 Empty the Warrens vs Islands. 3 Volcanic Islands means you'll draw a Volcanic Island more than any other land in your opening hand, and it's the "bait" land you hang out there for Wasteland to cantrip while your fetchlands shuffle and look for an Underground Sea or Swamp. You also have to take into consideration that imprinting Chrome Mox for Black is a lot easier than it is for Red, you'll hit more T1 Empty the Warrens if you're getting your Red from Volcanic Island instead of off Chrome Mox.
In my mind, the whole deck runs off Swamp and Volcanic Islands with Underground Sea being kind of a luxury. The 3/3 Thoughtseize/Duress split is just to reduce the average damage taken from casting Thoughtseize, I'm sure you could play the 4/2/2 split of Thoughtseize/Duress/Cabal Therapy just as well tho'.
Mire in Madness looks like a solid SB option, decent Wish target vs Leyline of Sanctity and Counterbalance in black.
Lost track of what hate everyone else is playing these days? Me too! Let's take a look!
https://theepicstorm.com/adapting-to...izons-and-m20/
This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest TIM COLLETTI (TCSIRONMAIDEN)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.
https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-32/
Finished 10th in the Legacy Format Playoff today, you can check out my matches here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qptS...0Nli4Dw8dP8P0i
Also... https://theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-painter/
Anybody think that W Canonist Enchantmentbis worthkeeping a wishable answer to Enchantments in the board as a standard? I think at W it's too fast for Thoughtseize andbEchoing Truth is likely to get over worked.
As an aside, has any body tried cutting Rite of Flame from the deck and just using Mox Opals instead? Average CC goes down overall and Metalcraft is manageable with cantrips piecing it together for a T2? I have also been really impressed by Wishclaw Talisman, I boarded an Infernal Tutor and a Duress (7 discard with a 3/4 split) and MDed 2 copies as both a stop gap and an enabler, the card is no joke at all.
I have a strong suspicion that the 2 basic manabase and Wishcla Talisman is worth taking a hard look at for slower but more mana efficient/safe set ups. Interesting to tinker with the list again fwiw.
waited for that, but am really busy- i'l answer... for me this card - not for blue - but for D&T is a shit of a hell - really dont know how much this will incrment their 2nd and 3rd games vs us... really sad. For me it will be a Void snare again for sure - nothing else I think it is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I assume that non U only will play this so I think CoV side is a must 2/3 as minimum.
yeah i tried that long time ago. - this is the most logical approach and remember Bhamut agreed - just take all RoF and put in opals - I for example tended to vault ofwhispers and thinks like that becuase it was not a guarrantied manasource - thing i disliked - even i played the card in GP era and disliked... but hey WC is artifact!Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
yeah WC deserves testing... but I would not take out IT at all. my first feeling is: maybe BW can decrease the number? maybe the card is the substitute of BW? maybe a new deck based on AN will raise UB only? Ihave a POutcome deck and sure I'll play this. maybe now it is time to look at MOpal again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
What I completely do know is that I'll inclde 1 in my modern Tezz deck!
EDIT: Sorry, my first take:
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
1 ToA
4 Infernal Tutor
4 WC
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
3 Mox Opal
2 CRit
1 CoV
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 VoW
???
being conservative In my list I maybe just swamp 8th discard by 1WC and that's it, but this deserves test as sparate stuff. I do know:
- this card is not for PiF but AN.
- MOpal now can be a thing now.
- Is this better than BW? I do love BW but BW does gets you AN by 2/1 or 3.
- you incrment your 2nd turn wins with this card mainly.
I have the same deck more or less, there's no reason to use Cabal Ritual considering Chrome Mox, Mox Opal and Wishclaw Talisman do not go to the graveyard. I have 7 discard, 14 land and 4x of all the artifacts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo