The spell is countered either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCop 90
The manacost is what's written on the top of the card, always. It doesn't matter how much you actually pay for it.
edit: ninja'd.
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The spell is countered either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCop 90
The manacost is what's written on the top of the card, always. It doesn't matter how much you actually pay for it.
edit: ninja'd.
Damn, Marcelo. We're all over this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Thanks! I don't know what i would do without this thread :)
I'm going to a tournament tomorrow and I still haven't decided if to run a r/g/w list similar to jrw1985's one, with thalia main board and RIP ,chalices, krosan grips in the sideboard, or a r/g list with relics instead of RIP.
Unfortunately I don't exactly know the metagame, but I think i will go with the r/g list ... relic seems a good alternative to rip and i don't like to include non-goblin spells main deck (thalia) apart from vials. I'll hope not to be paired against storm.
Today i played in a very small Fun-Tournament against Landstill and UR Delver. Sadly i couldn't win a match.
First of all i have to say that i never faced Landstill before and didn't know how his deck worked. So i played a little dumb and got screwed against his Supreme Verdict, Humility, Mishras Factory and Jace.
Second round i outboarded my incinerators to get Chalice and Seal of cleansing. And that was the big mistake because he boarded 2 peacekeepers and got them in play. so i had nothing to kill them but only my Siege-Gang-Commander wich got one of them but the second was too much after my SGC got "swords-to-plowshered"... (0:2)
Second game was against UR Delver. The first game i could win with an army of goblin tokens. Thanks to krenko altough it was a hard game because i had only 1 life left.
Then i boarded 4 Chalice to make 2/3 of his deck useless. But what then happened was god like. He got me with 3 delver, price of progress and chain lightnigs. Third round was nearly the same. Again 2 Delver, 2 price of progress and a punch of lighnting bolts sealed my defeat. Although the UR Delver player said he was VERY lucky the last two games i was very dissapointed. (1:2)
Now im looking forward for the next "real" tournament next sunday. I hope i will have more luck than this time.
But i really really have to say that Thalia made a great job and i don't want to cut her out of my MB. I'm playing a Rw List with 3 Seals of Cleansing and a second Tuk Tuk in SB (against Esper) but no Krosan Grip. But because i cut the green splash i can play 3 Rishadan ports wich also where great in todays matchups. They slowed UR Delver pretty good and also against Landstill they were great (Mishras Factory!!).
@jrw1985 and LeoCop 90: Just to make clear, trinisphere dont change mana cost either. In fact, I have never saw a card that actually change the mana cost of a card, all cards just make you pay more or less mana. Trinisphere just act last, so, if a spell would cost less then 3, you have to pay more mana until you pay 3, and that is it.
That is how dragon stomp still workds with trinisphere and chalice in MD.
There is a lot of information about trinisphere and chalice, if anyone here wants it, just have to search in google.
Standstill is a match that gets better as more times you face it.
UR delver seens to be a match that you can win only by trading your creatures when you can, and by killing delver, after all, our cards are usually better in mid/late game.
I would like to bring a question: I saw most of the lists running 4 warchiefs and 1 chieftain. Anyone tried 3 warchiefs and 2 chieftains? The first warchief is great and the second is still usefull, but the third.. so I imagined that 3 warchief is enough, what you guys think about this?
I use this 3W/2C split and have to say haven't missed the 4th Warchief and the 2nd Chieftain was awesome. Haste enablers get removed immediately most of the time so having another one that improves combat math after they finally do run out is excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by max_goblin
Deathrite shaman, a recently rising star in legacy, is an annoying creature to our decks.
It blocks turn1 lackey, and Gempalm Incinerator could not kill it before turn3. Its acceleration also reduce the efficiency of our wastelands and ports.
How about your opinions to it? Are more MD stingscourger needed?
Yesterday a friend of mine played a fun game with my goblin deck against another friend with BUG. He got screwed 3:0...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
He said that those f**** Shamans are a blowbeat. They block lackeys, Gempalm is often too slow and a sharpshooter combo only works with a lot of tokens to kill at least 2 of them...
So... in my opinion we have to think about a split for at least 1 chieftain. He pumps are goblins so he is forced to block with them.
I think its not a great idea to play more stingscourgers...
Any other ideas?
Tarfire?
Pyrokinesis and Lightning Bolt works. Maybe even a 1-off Tarfire. The problem with Tarfire is that it would also feed Goyf, which a deck with Shaman will also run.
Everyone has Pyrokinesis in SB. So we need an answer in MB. Tarfire isn't a bad idea but i really have no space in my Rw list... Can't cut Thalia because she is too strong.
I also thought back about my Goblin Deck with 4 Tarfire and 4 Lightning bolts i played a long time ago. But thats too crazy... ^^
In this case Bolt > Tarfire. Fetchability isn't worth the Goyf pump, and since you would want to kill DRS way before you can drop Matrons.
I palyed a big tournament yesterday with 57 players.
Won 4 times, lost one time and one time I drawed.
I went Top 8 :-) Yeaahhh
I played RW:
Deck: Sasans Goblins in W
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:33
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Siege-Gang Commander
Spells:4
4 AEther Vial
Lands:23
4 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Rest in Peace
2 Seal of Cleansing
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
3 Pyrokinesis
No Krenko? Yes he is win-more and gets handled
too often before he does something if you don't have a haste lord online. Siege Gang leaves you at least with 3
Tokens. I need more removal in times where BUG and Shaman are on the rise. Siege Gang is god again in the current meta.
4 Piledrivers? Yes they increase my clock much and are also a removal for knights,
Oozes and so on.
No Chieftain? With 4 ports I don't need another RR spell and he is clunky in most matchups. I didn't miss him yersterday.
so here we go:
Round 1 Vs Nicfit: 1-1-1
- Game 1 overrun him and made the mana denial plan. It worked well
- Game 2 he was shocked about my boarded in RiP and tried hard to deed it. It worked for him and then he got a 5/5 flyer online and the clock was too fast.
- Game 3 Rest in Peace locked him down and I swinged for lethal but there was a problem: Time was up. So draw.
Noooo...
Round 2 vs Reanimator: 2-0
Game 1: Port and Wasteland kept him out of the Game and Piledriver, Lackey that connected to Siege Gang killed him fast.
Game 2: Thalia slowed him down and double Piledriver did the rest.
Round 3 vs Merfolk: 1-2
I feel shamed. You just don't have to lose this matchup.
What went wrong?
Game 1: He had 4 lords in Hand and a better clock.
Game 2: I won so easy that I don't have notes about it.
Game 3: Had 3 Ports and not much red mana and was screwed. ahhhhh
Round 4 vs Miracles: 2-1
Game 1 was nothing special. I kept him of white mana with Port and raged but always kept a ringleader in hand. After terminus I played Ringleader and had soon a new army
Game 2 I had Seal of Cleansing online on turn 2 but was too greedy: I destroyed a Engineered Explosives and then he laid down Moat AND Humility. But as he only hat jace as win condition (Entreat is dead due to humility) and only 15 minutes left, I tried to draw another Seal. With only 5 minutes left he draw Jace and I did not want to stall although other spectators said I should have. but that is not my style. I conceded and asked him to play game 3 fast. I beat him badly within 2-3 minutes :)
Round 5 vs Death and Taxes:
Game 1 I lost to Double Serra Avenger and mana Denial.
Game 2 I won thanks to double Kinesis. I was at 2 life and had 2 Kinesis in hand and cleared his board.
Game 3 I had Kinesis, Mana Denial and a fast clock. He then played a card
that let's every player sacrifice all card types expect for one. I had some mana in Hand and a Warchief. I drew Ringleader and soon had a army where he only had some mana and a small creature.
Round 6 vs Death and Taxes with Blue Splash for Geist and Supreme Verdict
Game 1 I lost to Double Serra Avenger. I hate that bitch. Ahhh
Game 2 Kinesis and a fast clock ended the affair quickly.
Game 3 I had vial at 4 and Ringleader in hand when he played Supreme Verdict. Guess What? I soon had an army and won easily with not much life total.
I was very happy with the deck.
The final note.
Ports are awesome. Repeat that three Times.
Thalia and Ports gives you a fighting chance against combo.
Grip was not missed this time.
Thanks to everyone here. It is my third month on legacy after a 8-9 year hiatus and with the help of
this topic my playstyle improved dramatically in a short
time. THANK YOU.
quick notes about my Rbg experience:
5 rounds tourney, ended 3-2 at 8th. Won against Pox, UW Miracle/Rest in Peace+Helm, and some kind of BW build. Lost against Tezzeret/Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo and MonoR Goblins. Elfball and Lands drew at the final.
- Earwig Squad main deck was really good, won me a game (removing 3x Rest in Peace) and and could've won me another (removing Tezzeret) had I drawn hate against Esnaring Bridge.
- Duress was good against RiP/Helm and BW, removing stuff like combo pieces and E.Plague.
- Krosan Grip was never cast because I never drew them. Should have played 3 copies, but I didn't know what to cut.
- Perish was not boarded in because of no relevant matchups (though it should be pointed that one of the winners was an Elfball deck).
Sideboard used:
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Perish
3x Duress
3x Red Elemental Blast
2x Krosan Grip
One final question before I leave: the scenario is game 2 against Thopter Foundry Combo, you lost game one. After boards, your deck is a little bit polluted by hate cards (see above). You have a Tinstreet Hooligan as your only artifact hate gobbo. You resolve a prowled earwig squad turn 2 (Lackey, Warchief). You open your opponent's deck and see the following relevant cards:
3x tezzeret
3x jace mind sculptor
4x thopter foundry
3x Sword of the Meek
2x Esnaring Bridge
1x Humility
The question is: what do you extract? The hate cards or the kill cards?
I ended up choosing Tezzeret, relying on buying myself time to either kill him or draw more hate (K. Grip). Turns out that he topdecks esnaring bridge, my Hooligan was turned off by my own warchief, and I never saw a krosan. Lost to his flying thopters lots of turns later.
Personally I'd probably choose 2 Bridges and Humility. All the other cards you can play against to some extent. Planeswalker are easy, and sword/thopter is a 2 card 'combo', that you can play against with sharpshooter, krenko, chieftain, or just swarming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleston
I guess the reasoning is: You don't need to find your hate cards to fight those, but you need them to fight Bridge/humility.
If I'm understanding correctly you had 3 REB, 2 KGrip and 1 TSH in your 60 at this point. REBs can handle Jace/Tezzeret. Grip/TSH can handle Humility/Bridge. So I'd probably take the 3 Sword of the Meek. I agree with Scatman that you can beat the Thoptor/Sword Combo (Piledriver is Pro U, Thoptors ar U, plus you have Sharpshooter) but taking 3 Sword of the Meek leaves him with 4 much less useful Foundries in his deck. You're essentially giving him 4 near-blanks to draw. With his combo nerfed he can't chump your horde, which should give you time to do what goblins does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleston
No Krenko? Yes he is win-more and gets handled
too often before he does something if you don't have a haste lord online. Siege Gang leaves you at least with 3
Tokens. I need more removal in times were BUG and Shaman are on the rise. Siege Gang is god again in the current meta.
So i have been wondering the same. Are 2 SGC better than a 1/1 split of SGC/Krenko.
I love Krenko, he is so much fun but I wonder if he is a win-more card? Sometimes he is overkill, but a SGC would have sufficed, but other times the SGC can do damage without attacking ( eg v moat ) and if removed immediately the 3 tokens are still on the board.
So is there any consensus on Krenko v 2nd SGC?
Krenko with haste is insane.
Krenko eating a removal means another dude lives.
SGC usually sees removal likewise.
SCG cip-trigger can be stifled, Krenko's effect too, but every time?
CC4>CC5 especially with vial and the option for Ringleader, while Vial on 5 is almost dead.
Krenko wins games by 2-3 activations himself, SGC usually does not.
Staying with a 1-1 split in favor of the toolbox goblins.
I am having the same problems with BUG as everyone else. I also think more removal is a good plan. The question is which one?
No weirding, no tarfire, since both pump Goyf.
I'd play Bolt and Pyrokinesis to a certain extend main, problematically with Vial and Cavern they see all the Spell Pierce there are, and there are a lot out there.
More removal in Goblin form: Incinerator (maxed out already), Stingscourger (no real answer to 1 and 2 drops), Mogg Fanatic (only one damage=too few/too weak).
Ideas welcome!
Thanks for Krenko comments.
Against Goyf and bug I use tarfire for quick removal of other stuff, and then piledrivers to trade with Goyfs, and also relics from SB to hose GY and totally nullify Goyf.
( I always pack Gempalms and 2 stingscourgers as well as tarfire MD, with pyros also in SB. Removal is so helpful to clear path for lackeys and my 2 WI )
Krenko is awesome. I used to play with 2 but now I play 1 SCG and 1 Krenko, which I think is the best option. SCG is good, yes, but you just need a Krenko and a guy with haste, specially Chieftain for the +1+1, to take the match. I think we can play with both.