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Basically what me and Kich were discussing. He's actually a pretty good option if you can disrupt long enough against a combo deck. As soon as he hits they become bust if they try to go off.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Also, if they need to brainstorm up their answer, 12 damage is... well... 12 damage?
I plan on playing him as soon as he comes out. Looks like a lot of fun.
I find it sad but I do not think that he is playable, Maybe I am wrong but this is my reasoning:
Against Control: he is just worse than Primeval Titan. Dealing 6 to them is nice but Nic Fit doesn't apply enough pressure to make it constantly lethal. Getting 2 lands (in red versions that will something like Valakut, Wolf Run or Grove) is almost always better against Control. If there is a Jace in play on their side Titan is infinitely better.
But his real problem is against Aggro: 6/6 Vigilance Reach stabilizes the board but you can't go anywhere from there on. Nic Fit plays far more spells than creatures so his effect is pretty bad for you, especially considering that the opponent will be ahead on life total. So you would often lock yourself out of the game with him. On top of that he is frequently smaller than Tarmogoyfs so it isn't even sure that he dominates the board.
against Combo: He is good but not great. I rarely hit 7 Mana against them without having the game already sealed up.
Tao, I think you are right. Prime titan is definitely going to better 99% of the time. I think the question here is, if the deck needs 2 drops, is this guy the 2nd best 6 drop. I have not been impressed with broodmate dragon, so maybe this can take the dragons place.
Also I was rushed before and did say it but, congrats on the finish honeyT! And Jbone too! It sounds like you 2 played the same devin playing reanimator in your last rounds.
Anyone have any successful/semi successful BUG lists? I need something better against combo.
I beat ANT 3 times in KC without islands. Still working on the report. Running a little behind. Promise it will be up soon!Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
Can't wait to read your report Honey, congrats!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyT
My signature list is pretty good and it is favored against Combo from G2 on.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
Has Mindbreak Trap actually been all that good, Tao? It is free, but seems only good against Storm combo specifically, and by the time they've cast enough spells for you to Trap them, wouldn't they have already checked your hand for hate and Thoughtseized/Silenced you?
The Mindbreak Traps mostly balance out the numbers (also they are amazing against Belcher). They have been okay, not stellar, but also not bad.
They are the necessary 16th and 17th blue card for the FoW count the 5th and 6th spell that can stop a kill on turn 0. The card needs to be blue for FoW to work and I didn't like the 4th Negate because against Combo they can be a bit slow so I'd rather have 1 Trap, 1 Negate than 2 Negates. Against Control I won't board more than 3 Negates anyway so the fourth Negate seemed bad. Spell Pierce also seems bad in a deck that uses Explorer but I haven't tested it. Another option would be Vendilion Clique and I think it is very close between Trap and Clique. I decided for Trap because I wanted more super fast stuff.
Storm will usually side out Silence against Nic Fit for G2. And if they keep it, it might be dead if you have a Discard heavy draw. So Silence is not the greatest of concerns. If they have Probe + Therapy + Combo and you don't have another answer then there is not much any card could have done in that situation.
Tao I really like your list and I might play it at Milwaukee. Nic Fit is the only deck I own most of the cards for and in a larger tournament I want to have some game vs. combo. Anything you would change if you were to play it at an SCG event in a couple weeks?
Here is a short breakdown of my thoughts on the list: I would not change much in the maindeck. These are the slots that I currently consider fixed because they have proven themselves (when I experiment I never go below these numbers but maybe play more):
22 lands (including 2 Phyrexian Tower)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
The 2 Wurmcoils, the Hornet Queen and the Ooze are all replaceable:
- I wanted some form of Yard removal in G1 so I added Ooze. Don't like it very much though, often dies without value.
- Hornet Queen is a test slot, but she seems good. I would play at least one big GSZ target. It could be Primeval Titan or Terastodon or Hornet Queen. If you play Titan, play 23 lands including 2 Creeping Tar Pits (remove 1 Underground Sea). Don't play Stronghold, it was generally not worth it.
- I like Wurmcoil because it destroys Jund and is amazing against BUG. On the other hand Wurmcoil sucks against UW/x so if these decks have a comeback you should play Titan+land instead.
these cards I also consider playing in the MD: 3rd Inquisition, 3rd Liliana, 4th Decay, 4th Deed, Coiling Oracle, any Garruk, Primeval Titan, Terastodon
For the SB:
- 3 Surgicals and the fourth Decay are fixed. I would not recommend changing them.
- the blue cards are one way to approach Combo. You could also try 4 Thoughtseize instead of the Force of Wills. That is probably a bit better against TES/ANT and Elves but worse against Belcher and it loses hard against SnT's white Leyline.
Alright guys, the KC report is finally up in the Tournament Reports thread!
Here's a link for easy referece:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...247#post713247
Check it out! Feel free to ask any questions!
Great read, thanks for that. Is there anything you would change to the deck. I noted you boarded out P Fire quite often. Are they still worth it?
Does anyone have results playing the Horny Queen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
Good question. I am curious to the answer as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
I noticed you didn't bring Volrath's Stronghold and you where playing Garruk, Primal Hunter instead of Garruk Relentless. What was the reasoning behind those choices?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyT
I am on the same page as Honey about all the choices (the list is similar to what I posted, just more well-rounded; the only change I would make is -1 Forest, + 1 Foothills) so I give it a try:
- Against all the Delvers and DR Shamans you need early defense anyway so a 2-mana Shock is an acceptable spell in the current Meta. And Grove is basically Taiga because if you swing with Titans you don't care too much about minor life gain for the opponent. That means that adding P. Fire / Grove to the deck comes at a very low cost. So it is still okay even if you get less profit out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
- he played a lot against Combo, so it is natural that spot removal isn't at its best and against the few non-combo he played against P. Fire seemed good from the report
- against U/W decks you can afford to take out 1-2 Fires because the games go long and you have time to find it. Also the odds are quite high that they will Surgical it (and there is usually no way to find the time to be able to play around it).
- You cannot run many colorless lands in a 3-colored deck and Tower and Wolf-Run are much better. I don't know about HoneyT but I personally would play a second Tower over Volrath's Stronghold if there was more room for colorless lands. Long, grindy games are rare at the moment and those in which your creatures don't get exiled (by DR Shaman, Ooze or Swords) are even rarer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
- Garruk PH is amazing. In combination with Thrun he is a reliable Tidings and even though I haven't used PH in combination with Wolf-Run yet I can only imagine it would be glorious. The best part is his +1 though and when compared to Garruk Relentless he feels more meaty and less vulnerable.
First off Congrats HoneyT
Speaking of Garruk, PH, I had a question for Arianrhod regarding the scapewish build.
Wouldn't he be better maindeck than promise of power? For wishing reasons, I can understand the promise in the board. However, maindeck, I think that GPH fills the same basic role minus the lifeloss and is easier to cast.
@HoneyT
Great report, congratulations. Stellar job on those horrible matchups.
I'm curious how you liked Broodmate Dragon over a second Thrag or a second Garruk PH?
I'm still pretty drugged up from getting my wisdom teeth out on Monday (and am still in quite a bit of pain), so I'm can't promise that I'm going to be entirely coherent. My apologies for that.
@Ruric Whatever (6/6 Gruul champion guy) -- my stance on him is pretty much Tao's stance. I'll probably test him just to be sure, but the fact that he's symmetrical doesn't impress me. From Scapewish's perspective, okay cool you have him out -- then you topdeck Burning Wish, with lethal on board. Do you really want to take 12 to attempt to Shift ftw? Can you, even? That's so poor. Theoretically you could get him out and just sit on him, on an empty board, but he's still smaller than most Tarmogoyfs or KotR. Without Green Sun's Zenith you probably can't advance your own board state. I'm just not convinced that it's worth it. Vs combo yeah sure, fine. But if you get can to 7 lands vs combo, you've won already anyway.
@Promise of Power experiment -- that's failed. I might try Primal Hunter. Diabolic Revelation is also on my bucket list of things to try -- the triple black ended up being the primary deal-breaker after all. It was just too hard to get to in real-world situations (ie wasteland exists). Double-black seemed common, though, by comparison, so I'll probably test Revelation. Primal-Hunter is certainly an option that's on the table.
@HoneyT and JBone -- congratulations to both of you!
@GP Pitt: Got my Deeds all finished and signed. Also randomly found two jap foil Verdant Catacombs which I used my trade credit to jump on -- which meant I couldn't get my 2nd candlestick for 12post, but whatever. Started out win-a-boxing with 12post, split one and then kept hitting Jund over and over again, so I got frustrated and did my token one with Rector. Despite being a terrible win-a-box deck, I'll always do one with Rector just because I enjoy playing it and showing it off.
Played vs High Tide r1 one. Keep in mind that my list currently has neither Carpet of Flowers nor Cranial/Memoricide. So game 1 he goes apeshit. Game two I annoy him with Therapies until I triumphantly slam Nether Void. He can't go off under it, and he can't solve it before he dies. G3 he gets mana screwed while I hit a Rector into Void again. Got pretty lucky here.
Round 2 was vs Bant. Game one I get to go totally and completely off, to the point where I had Yosei lock with active Recycle. I had a bit of a crowd, lol. Game two I kept a reasonable hand and then never drew mana sources. I died with basically every card in my deck that cost 4 or more in my hand. Game three was mine if at any point I drew into a Pernicious Deed or a Rector. He comically overcommitted and I just couldn't draw into sweep. Really sucked =(
Sunday I did another 12-post win-a-box, and managed to hit Jund -again-. I finally realized that the meta was slow combo, Jund, and fair.dec (Miracles/Blade) -- TES wasn't really present, nor was Belcher. There was a lot of High Tide, though, for some reason. This made me come to the "fuck it" realization of running Scapewish. So I ran Scapewish in a win-a-box.
R1 was vs BUGStill. I actually know how to play this matchup disturbingly well by this point because I keep getting paired up against my deck. I still manage to punt away g1. I'm at lethal from both combat and Jace the next turn. I rip Green Sun, and can Zenith for Witness for Wish for Scapeshift for win. The GSZ resolves, and I let myself get too eager, and fail to flashback Therapy with Witness to check him for Spell Snares. I obviously get blown out. Game two I Avenger him, and g3 he keeps a weird hand with a ton of manlands and no interaction, so I just Scapeshift him out.
R2 was vs Rich Shay on Jund. Rich Shay is something of an eternal pro, and I knew this round would be very challenging. He opens up with the classic Deathrite into t2 Liliana g1, and things go downhill from there. Jund isn't a horrible matchup for Scapewish unless they get that exact opening, in which case the deck can be a huge pain. G2 he doesn't have Liliana, and I end up topping out my curve, Primeval into Avenger. Avenger brings 9 friends, and they become 2/3s on the attack, which is enough to tie us up 1-1. Game 3 sees another Deathrite into Liliana start by Rich. I have double Explorers staring at his double Goyf, and my Top is mitigating the damage from Liliana. We quickly end up both hellbent, as he drops the rest of his hand to empty mine (Deathrite + Hymn, + Liliana activation). He then starts swinging in. I get lands, and spin Top. I hit a Burning Wish and Scapeshift for the kill.
R3 was comical. I offered the split -- it was like 4pm and I was eager to hit the road. The split was denied. My opponent was playing UWr Miracles. I just shrug and accept my free half a box. G1 is horrifically one-sided. I make a board, he terminuses, and then I carry on with the business of killing him. G2 I kept a shady hand, but I thought that my opponent was bad, so....bad on me. It was one of those tantalizing never-keeps....Mountain + Valakut, double Explorer, Tower, Therapy, Wish. Naturally I never hit green mana, and I die to his curve. Game 3 I keep a much better hand. I play Wood Elves on my turn 3, and he thinks for a second while getting oracle. Upon getting oracle, he slams Force of Will. I'm kind of confused but am not complaining. Next turn he triumphantly jams Blood Moon. He has Volc, Tundra, Plains. I have Forest, Taiga, Bayou, with Forest + Swamp in my hand. I just shrug and laugh. He ends up having to EE for 1 to kill one of my Explorers just to fix his mana, at which point I "just kill him."
So yeah. That was my weekend. I probably could've won more boxes if I'd realized to switch to Scapewish sooner because of the omnipresence of High Tide and Jund, but oh well -- such is life.
Gonna go rest more now ... hopefully I feel better soon. Fucking wisdom teeth.
Is Jund really that bad for 12 post? It was good seeing you out there (I think it was you), glad you had more success with Nic Fit!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod