[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

Your message was hard to miss, Robert.

Royce Walter and I both made top 8 of the Bazaar of Moxen Qualifier/Flight event yesterday in PA - 175 Players. We played similar but different lists.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

Royce Walter and I both made top 8 of the Bazaar of Moxen Qualifier/Flight event yesterday in PA - 175 Players. We played similar but different lists.

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"different" like in 1-3 cards off?

Congratz guys!

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Thoughtseize does nothing against floated or topdecked hate in a format full of Brainstorm/Ponder/SDT which was my main reason to keep playing Silence as I mentioned many times before. Cards like Envelope/Spell Snare/Mindbreak Trap and especially a mix of common MB and SB counters in your opponents hand is nothing a single Thoughtseize can handle. Ever looked into a hand of Flusterstorm, Snare and Stifle?

UBW decks like Deathblade are indeed a horrible matchup. Thank God the deck is too expensive to see it every second match. It's not that the switch between Thoughtseize and Silence would matter here

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And yet ANT players are perfectly fine with it and TES players aren't for some inexplicable reason, I'd rather follow the example of the better performing or more popular Storm deck here and let sacred cows be slaughtered. A couple of soft counters doesn't bother this deck anywhere near as much as a single Vendilion Clique, Meddling Mage, Counterbalance etc.

@sawatarix

Damage from Gitaxian Probe is optional and Ad Nauseam is probably my least tutored for win condition.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

"different" like in 1-3 cards off?

Congratz guys!

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I played 1 Duress 3 Therapy 3 Silence main, sideboard 2 Chain of Vapor 3 Xantid 1 Therapy 1 Inquisition 3 Decay along with the usual PiF, Returns, Tendrils, Empty, Grapeshot. I'll probably cut a Xantid next time I play, not sure what for yet.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

And yet ANT players are perfectly fine with it and TES players aren't for some inexplicable reason, I'd rather follow the example of the better performing or more popular Storm deck here and let sacred cows be slaughtered. A couple of soft counters doesn't bother this deck anywhere near as much as a single Vendilion Clique, Meddling Mage, Counterbalance etc.

@sawatarix

Damage from Gitaxian Probe is optional and Ad Nauseam is probably my least tutored for win condition.

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I'm not really interested in arguing with your point, but assuming something is correct because it works in a different context is really very wrong. A good example of this is why Dark Confidant is a good sideboard card for ANT but isn't really viable for TES. ANT having more discard and library manipulation makes playing a Bob and playing control until they can just win with a small Tendrils a viable game plan; TES's volume of non-discard based disruption and fewer slots for cards like Preordain don't allow for this kind of game plan.

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Originally Posted by Royce Walter

I played 1 Duress 3 Therapy 3 Silence main, sideboard 2 Chain of Vapor 3 Xantid 1 Therapy 1 Inquisition 3 Decay along with the usual PiF, Returns, Tendrils, Empty, Grapeshot. I'll probably cut a Xantid next time I play, not sure what for yet.

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Thx for the fast answer

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

And yet ANT players are perfectly fine with it and TES players aren't for some inexplicable reason, I'd rather follow the example of the better performing or more popular Storm deck here and let sacred cows be slaughtered. A couple of soft counters doesn't bother this deck anywhere near as much as a single Vendilion Clique, Meddling Mage, Counterbalance etc.

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TES is more vulnerable to soft counters than ANT due to the lacking power of Cabal Ritual and less lands with the later also bothering sideboard solutions like Abrupt Decay and the ability to dig for solutions by running more lands and cantrips. There is indeed no holy cow, but the decks differ a bit more than just these 3 disruption slots to just switch those and remove the problem the deck has with the shitload of topdeck-hate and SDT.

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Originally Posted by Royce Walter

I'm not really interested in arguing with your point, but assuming something is correct because it works in a different context is really very wrong. A good example of this is why Dark Confidant is a good sideboard card for ANT but isn't really viable for TES. ANT having more discard and library manipulation makes playing a Bob and playing control until they can just win with a small Tendrils a viable game plan; TES's volume of non-discard based disruption and fewer slots for cards like Preordain don't allow for this kind of game plan.

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There are no perfect comparisons, my point is ANT seems to do just fine without Silence where top decking or hiding a solution under Top doesn't seem to be a critical weakness.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

There are no perfect comparisons, my point is ANT seems to do just fine without Silence where top decking or hiding a solution under Top doesn't seem to be a critical weakness.

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Oh, I'm sure it is ... I just remember the last BoM

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Oh, I'm sure it is ... I just remember the last BoM

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Indeed it is. Furthermore, like others pointed out, the lifeloss of playing 3/4 seize is just too much for TES given the nature of the deck.

Even with all the mixed hate:TES fortunately keeps it's raw speed :)

Congratz to bryant and royce! Well done!

I was debating if I was going to write up a report, I think I will. It'll likely be up towards the end of the week.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I was debating if I was going to write up a report, I think I will. It'll likely be up towards the end of the week.

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Sweet congrats to the both of you.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Oh, I'm sure it is ... I just remember the last BoM

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Damned if you do, damned if you don't regarding Miracles and Sensei's Divining Top/Counterbalance, something in that deck will always get you regarding Force of Will, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, Meddling Mage, Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top, no deck in Legacy is ever spared from a bad match up. I don't have a problem with Brainstorm or top decking because I tend to cast Thoughtseize on the same turn I go off. Life loss and Ad Nauseam is overrated, I win 30% of my games with Ad Nauseam judging from my notes: you just can't pay the Phyrexian mana mindlessly.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Schünemann? He played 1 Ad Nauseam in Paris.

As you know, ANT Ad Nauseams are more used to refill your hand as they are easy to cast off more lands and ******** Cabal Rituals unlike in TES where you want to use the 5cc Spell to flip your library and 0cc artifacts over for a kill in the same turn asap. I've tested with 2 and with 3 AN in TES as I started playing the deck (like the Vintage BobNauseam decks did at that time) and was not satisfied by the result.

The moment EtW isn't an option in the metagame anymore turns the whole concept build around Cabal Therapy, Infernal and Wish for Goblins ad absurdum as I usually won half my games with Goblins at times. IF that's the case, ANT might be a wiser choice for a metagame with a shitload of -1/-1 effects (even if the deck focuses on the graveyard in times of RIP and DRS).

P.S.: I'm also fed up by uphill battles against good pilots on Esperblade or other dual-disruption (counter+hatebear/counter+discard) + sweeper decks. Burned out :/

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Yep has to be another ANT-playing Timo as Schünemann only plays one Ad Nauseam, though we do use one Empty the Warrens in the Sideboard at the moment. Works well versus RUG so far (or tempo in general)...but I am not sure about some other matchups with all those -1/-1 cards out there.

What was your problem with multiple Ad Nauseams in TES Lemnear? It will push the speed even further doensn't it? Jonathan and Pascal are using 2 Ad Nauseams out of their Grinding Station SB (again) and seem to feel pretty good about the added speed...although you are right about the whole Cabal Therapy / Empty the Warrens interactions. Most of my late wins came of Goblins too but I managed to dodge the sweepers well ;)

Saw one Sneak / Show guy's boarding after our match (this time I was on ANT) and he boardet like 4 Pyroblasts against me ;) Some guys are really paranoid of little green men. He got his well deserved tentacles in the end ;)

Regards Chris

Edit: On the whole Thoughtseize topic...I guess ANT has a lot less problems with the life loss, because their primary engine is not life dependent.

Just bad luck flipping Chris. I usually have to luck to flip AN for AN and a bunch of crap on top as I tested it.

Atm I swap EtW for PIF in postboard games against the shitload of sweepers out there.

I wouldn't play Thoughtseize over Silence or an additional Ad Nauseam either. This is an Ad Nauseam deck, we look to maximize our percentages with winning once we cast Ad Nauseam. The lifeloss from Thoughtseize is just too much, especially in multiples and the second Ad Nauseam is awful. Bringing in an additional card that costs more than two is just miserable for flipping.

I don't like leaving myself without a main deck win condition, if I'm boarding Empty out, Grapeshot or Tendrils comes in from the sideboard.

Looking forward to Bryants report.

Royce i'd be so happy if you wrote one too!

Testing out 2 pyroblast 2 silence 3 therapy md configuration because i'm sadistic.

Pros: More sb space. Easy to cast, imprint red, protects discard, sweet vs blue combo and counterbalance.
Cons: considerably worse than silence vs fair decks. Less protected Diminishing returns.

So far liking that S&T and reanimator don't get to prance around free. Getting so many kids on their drawstep cliques.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

I was debating if I was going to write up a report, I think I will. It'll likely be up towards the end of the week.

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That would be nice! :D

@Tom T:
Congrats for the success of the GP Paris!!, my friend Juan Manuel Delgado I think was the ANT-3 Burning Wish (TNT by here) player who ruined your Day 2, he told me that was a veeery strange and large match up! at least I don't think there were too many TES players making day 2! I was trying to convice him to try TES but he even assumed it was just more complicated and TNT had its advantages on Tempo Decks. After we shared impresions, as also some day I've tested/played the deck and is just damned strong, he even recognized to make some misplays... but the fact that Dredge was a common match up, finally 4 he faced! was at some point dissapointed... we have some new fresh ideas for the TNT deck....and for sure including 3Extirpate Or 3 Surgical is a must! In Our Humil Opinión the best StormDeck... a deck with D.R., LED, B.W, I.T. and A.N can always win on 1st or 2n turn... he even won a game vs MUD 2-0!!! GReat

Apart:
So I just don't want to make comparisons, I just like playing TES over the rest of decks and now with the 4Thereapy 1ETW 3Silence Configuration I'm just so happy... I just recommend to play the List from Opening OR ANT-TNT (DDFT also) list but the TES List as it is from opening is the list you should play (No PIF, No Tendrils... as I've read lately....) I remember playing the list with 4moxen and still didnt 'need' the gitaxian... Just Pure Omni TES Player! I even tested the 1Grim Tutor slot! do not suggest... remember when there was by there The One Lost Slot.... so please just use at least the base from Opening. The TriForce!

@Final Fortune:
also heard T.Seize... I just would use Duress. I think you can use T.Seize or duress if you want but Silence gives TES a different angle to face the match ups that if you would not playing it and this is an aspect I love soo much in TES, I would go with TES to the GP -exact list and will know I will find a hostile meta like Tom T, my friend used TNT and the only match up that lost were Dredge 4 in the 2 days!!! for sure with TES you can face Dredge and win more likely - because of quick + silence maybe?, backwards happened with the rest of decks from the Tournament for him (won several Team america and Tempo)!

Looked at the Royce Walter list, I've also been evaluating the IoKocilek, what I proposed was to use it vs control In Addition to other cards, finally happy with 3Xantid, 1Tropical list. Still 1CoV. although we are talking about very small changes...