Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom4ik
- I absolutely think if you are playing a nic fit deck you need multiple top/library effects. Ptruths also helps in the CA role but having cheap early filtering is very important. The deck loses when you draw the wrong half of the deck just like most non cantrip decks. Diabolic intent does not count. That card is another in a long list of nic fit cards that is good when things are going well and tough to use when not. Great for tutoring against combo decks though.
- Cards like Nissa or Courser are just not good enough. They have these cute interactions that seem great and then I am sure most ppl just deal with it or ignore it and kill you.
I'm not sure about Nissa, still haven't tried it but Courser is definitely good. The card advantage train is real with Library/Top, and the lifegain/blocking beats pretty much every fair deck in the format. Courser translates into drawing 2 cards a turn, every turn and gaining about 1.5 life per turn.
I'm less happy with truths, I just don't see why I need it when I have a Courser going. Mine gets used less for advantage and more for clearing Top.
Where Courser is weak is against decks like S&T, Reanimator, and so on but those aren't the decks we're trying to beat in the first place. The card is pure value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
The new X2GU clone might be interesting as well, since it's a GSZ target.
It's an interesting thought for BUG but I think Meren is the better 4 to GSZ in the vast majority of circumstances. The card we would most want to copy is Siege Rhino which is out of color. I do find it interesting in Pod though, pod a Finks into this and get another Finks, Pod that into a 4 drop, and persist this into something else. In that sense it's better than Metamorph since it's green.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hey,
Is the Scapeshift variant of Nic Fit still any good? I'm a modern transient, and my deck there was Rug->Btl scapeshift, so it would be nice to know if I could still use some of the cards from that for this deck.
Also, is the nic-shift variant similar in playstyle and objectives to RG titanshift, or is it more like an "oops I win" combo in a nic fit shell a la twin or Depths Maverick?
I assume Btl also wouldn't be very good, Burning Wish seems like it would be better in most situations because it doesn't require as much color diversity and another space in your deck for the card you want to tutor that wouldn't contribute to the creature-based strategy. Of course, this is all just speculation without any experience, so is this true?
Thanks for reading.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Rubblekill- You are right in that planeswalkers for non punishing fire versions are a big problem. Both Liliana and Jace apply pressure that deed and creatures cannot always fight. Thanks for the support of Decay! haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
I'm not sure about Nissa, still haven't tried it but Courser is definitely good. The card advantage train is real with Library/Top, and the lifegain/blocking beats pretty much every fair deck in the format. Courser translates into drawing 2 cards a turn, every turn and gaining about 1.5 life per turn.
I'm less happy with truths, I just don't see why I need it when I have a Courser going. Mine gets used less for advantage and more for clearing Top.
Where Courser is weak is against decks like S&T, Reanimator, and so on but those aren't the decks we're trying to beat in the first place. The card is pure value.
-Nissa is not a legacy relevant spell. Thats for sure. I dont care if you play gsz. That effect too small and if you have enough lands to flip her then you should be able to do something a lot more powerful than nissa.
- Courser CA is not worth playing a subpar card. The CA you are talking about is Courser with another card to be able to dig 1 deeper. The life is such a tiny effect I do not consider that to matter in the discussion. The fact that courser cant block delver, goyf, bskull, angler means that it cant even stonewall the main beaters that most aggro decks play.
-Ptruths vs Courser is not even close. I am a believer in ptruths as a card but even if you are not as high on it as me the comparison will still favor the immediate draw 3. It doesnt require multiple turns, doesnt need another card to really function. It lets you play it and untap with the cards or with enough mana play right away. Truths also cant be hit by decay, stp or any other removal spell that again, get stuck in your hand playing against a control deck.
- I dont believe that Nic fit has to have a bad matchup with S&T or reanimator so I guess we agree to disagree on that.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaxcord
Hey,
Is the Scapeshift variant of Nic Fit still any good? I'm a modern transient, and my deck there was Rug->Btl scapeshift, so it would be nice to know if I could still use some of the cards from that for this deck.
Also, is the nic-shift variant similar in playstyle and objectives to RG titanshift, or is it more like an "oops I win" combo in a nic fit shell a la twin or Depths Maverick?
I assume Btl also wouldn't be very good, Burning Wish seems like it would be better in most situations because it doesn't require as much color diversity and another space in your deck for the card you want to tutor that wouldn't contribute to the creature-based strategy. Of course, this is all just speculation without any experience, so is this true?
Thanks for reading.
Ive never played the modern scapeshift decks before so i cant talk about their similarities, but i play scapewish pretty exclusively at high level tournaments with good success
The version i play is like a tap out control deck where you just try to grind your opponent out of resources. once your both in top deck mode all your draws are just bigger
you can close out games with your creatures, huntmaster is insane, but more often than not you stall them out to a point where you can scapeshift for the kill.
this is the list im running now, been running about this list minimal changes for 3ish years now
Creatures (16)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Huntmaster of The Fells
2 Thragtusk
2 Woodelves
2 Sakura-Tribe Elders
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
Spells (21)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands (24)
2 Valakut
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Stomping Grounds
Sideboard:
2 Carpet of flowers
2 REB
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughtergames
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pyroclasm
2 Thoughtsieze
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
lmk if you have anymore questions about the deck
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Who the hell is knocking Courser and Nissa? You need some amount of utility cards...it can't all be bombs. Good luck ramping/curving. By the same token, the ramp is what makes Sakura (thanks Kev) and co. good in Nic Fit. Courser is probably the best 3cc ramp the deck could have --- considering he gives you perpetual library depth and is synergistic with top/fetchlands/shuffles/GSZ.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
nissa is honestly better post board in matchups where you have to side out some number of explorers at worst she replaces herself with a forest at best she draws a card every turn. you can't ask for much more from a three drop in blue control matchups. as far as snt and big fatty matches go ensnaring bridge helps solve much of the dilemma. its commonly looked at as a major nobo but in actual practical application it works. this thread in general spends entirely too much time in magical christmas land casting cards and making changes specifically for the sake of actually getting too not because they improve any actual bad matchups. you can only jerk off on delver.deck so many time before you realize that matchup is solved by your md and if you're having trouble its your play style and thought process not the card selection. if you bring this deck to any sort of irl tournament you want to have your board tuned to either beat storm/jace or big fatty.dec you cant beat both but you can beat one group or the other. i cant speak for the online meta because its skewed by an entirely different set of budget decks and availability concerns.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
Me! Courser doesn't 180^ the board like rhino and sigarda do, and I don't fancy wasting a gsz for him. His Life gain is irrelevant, for 3 mana it dies to too many things without being able to block.
Everything you play for 3 mana or less dies to pretty much everything, so how is that an argument? Following your logic we should just skip on the DRS and Scooze too.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I have never sideboarded ooze out in a single matchup I already don't trust where this is going...
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uncletiggy
I have never sideboarded ooze out in a single matchup I already don't trust where this is going...
That's fair enough! Against shardless and miracles I do replace it with Elspeth. I am aware that it is a debatable choice but I have never regretted it so far.
Ooze is weird: sometimes I want to consider it as a sb card, then I draw it and remember why it is in the deck even if it's a 2 cmc guy.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
care to share your full list plus sideboard plan for what you're leaving in vs shardless and miracles over the ooze? i usually go:
miracles
-3 path -3 vet -3 therapy -1 nightmare
+2 ts +1 grip +1 garruk +1 teeg +1 needle +1 g charm +1 plague +2 surgical
shardless
-3 path -2 therapy
+1 garruk +2 ts +1 teeg +1 needle
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uncletiggy
care to share your full list plus sideboard plan for what you're leaving in vs shardless and miracles over the ooze? i usually go:
miracles
-3 path -3 vet -3 therapy -1 nightmare
+2 ts +1 grip +1 garruk +1 teeg +1 needle +1 g charm +1 plague +2 surgical
shardless
-3 path -2 therapy
+1 garruk +2 ts +1 teeg +1 needle
I will do it when I will be home, now im on mobile
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
stupid time zones its 4 am where I am i'd assume everyone is home by now... its also worth noting that the european meta is about as different as modo vs irl. so what works in the pacific northeast may not work as well over sea's. where I live storm lands and snt are my boogymen im gaurenteed to see two of them in any size event with storm being the easiest of the three honestly.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
That's fair enough! Against shardless and miracles I do replace it with Elspeth. I am aware that it is a debatable choice but I have never regretted it so far.
Ooze is weird: sometimes I want to consider it as a sb card, then I draw it and remember why it is in the deck even if it's a 2 cmc guy.
Keep it in vs. Shardless. It can absolutely manhandle Goyf or forces them to AD it. It also fucks over DRS pretty hard, so that's nice. It singlehandedly takes care of 8 of their creatures.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Keep it in vs. Shardless. It can absolutely manhandle Goyf or forces them to AD it. It also fucks over DRS pretty hard, so that's nice. It singlehandedly takes care of 8 of their creatures.
I know but since deed here is the key of the match up I don't wanna blow my ooze together with their goyfs. Even against bug decks we should play ooze in the mid-late game, better after the board wipe, but again, most of the time he is gonna gain life in response to their decay.. I want AD to be our best card, which it already is, and their worst card at the same time.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
I know but since deed here is the key of the match up I don't wanna blow my ooze together with their goyfs. Even against bug decks we should play ooze in the mid-late game, better after the board wipe, but again, most of the time he is gonna gain life in response to their decay.. I want AD to be our best card, which it already is, and their worst card at the same time.
Yeah... Deed isn't for everyone.
If it so happens that you have Scooze & Deed out, you just ride your Scooze as long as you can and don't blow Deed unless you have to. Deed is best used as a threat, not as actual removal. You know, just keep hovering your hand over that self destruct button while you tell your opponent "Come at me, bro. I dare you!".
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Yeah... Deed isn't for everyone.
If it so happens that you have Scooze & Deed out, you just ride your Scooze as long as you can and don't blow Deed unless you have to. Deed is best used as a threat, not as actual removal. You know, just keep hovering your hand over that self destruct button while you tell your opponent "Come at me, bro. I dare you!".
But in this way we turn on their decay, and we must keep mana up all the Time to threaten the board wipe.. I don't like that to be honest..
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
But in this way we turn on their decay, and we must keep mana up all the Time to threaten the board wipe.. I don't like that to be honest..
We turn on their Decay by having anything < 4 CMC on the board. And you do like using Pernicious Deed as 5 mana removal..?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
We turn on their Decay by having anything < 4 CMC on the board. And you do like using Pernicious Deed as 5 mana removal..?
Yes I do against AD, if I can. I have no creature outside ooze and Drs that dies to deed or ad (I have witnessed but come on her role here is not to be a vanilla 2/1).
Against miracles eldrazi etc I just play it and use it as a life insurance.
