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Peacekeeper can't be killed by berserk, EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
Btw., yes, they can spend billion turns to find that one narrow answer to it (piracy charm if they play it at all), but that means you are already in long game which is going in favor for you.
(sorry for bad english)
How exactly do you plan on getting Peacekeeper destroyed by berserk?Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
If that've happened to you, well... RTFC.
I think that, the infect matchup being terrible, is very exaggerated. I don't remember when I lost to it, and I play the matchup (at least) 3 times a month, for the last... Year, or something. I don't play garbage like Peacekeeper, Humility or something along these lines.
well if you have humility out and your opponent animates inkmoth it still has infect, flying and is a 1/1... simply this should explain why peacekeeper is better (there are a bunch of other reasons as well)
The issue with Peacekeeper/humility is not only its advantages aggainst reanimator/infect which are not terrible matchups, but merfolk, goblins and sneak and show, which can be pretty tough
First of all, generalizing a MU based on your particular match experience is risky. Infect piloted by Tom Ross is very different from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Second, if Reid Duke is willing to run Peacekeeper/Humility in his Miracles, then the cards are not garbage. It's just different tools for certain player's customized builds.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7584&d=243519&f=LE
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8778&d=250119&f=LE
Reid Duke is the only person that could ever do well with one of his lists. Same can be said for Joe Lossett. The lists don't seem great on paper, but players of their caliber are not the same as the regular miracles player. Their skill allows them to navigate builds that are (subpar) on paper, but they will do well with them regardless. There are plenty of players like that, even outside of the miracles archetype.
Reid stated numerous times, that the sole reason he played Peacekeeper was to metagame versus Tom Ross. Not infect in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Obviously, I'd much rather play versus UWR Delver than Infect, but by no means am I frightened if the opponent opens up with turn 1 glistener elf or something like that.
Reid Duke also plays zero Snapcaster Mages, which means he can't use swords twice. That puts a serious constraint on the ability to keep the board safe, which means Peacekeeper is a might more viable plan for him, compared to the Snapcaster/Clique builds.
My bad. Have to say that I don't think I've actually played a game against Infect where I actually resolved Peacekeeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Please don't mention Reid and Joe in the same sentence. There are worlds between the skill level of those players. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
Dont get me wrong, I like Joe. But Reid plays maybe 30% of the opens joe plays, hardly ever plays Legacy yet his results are arguably superb on an scg-open-level which they should since he's a platinum pro.
In general just because a good or great player has success with his list DOES NOT mean he couldnt have even more success with a better list (read 4 ponder and 3 Snapcaster Mage=least variance). I get it. Those players want to be special with their builds and are stubborn. Especially joe who sees himself as a legacy expert. Joe plays very many tournaments yet his conversion rate isnt super impressive to me.
But at some point you have to wonder: Do I want to win more matches and money?
Why do you people always have the need to compare players ? And why would you have the right to judge them ? Especially a semi pro like Joe Losset. You agree, you don't agree with their builds, you give your reasons, that's fine, no more.Quote:
Originally Posted by decan
Guys, focus on builds, names are there for reference only.
1. Humility and Peacekeeper are used in customized build, best known by Reid Duke's lists (As I linked).
2. We don't run customized build, most of us run builds containing Ponders, popularized by Schonegger, which does not contain Humility and/or Peacekeeper.
If you want to experiment with those cards, that's fine, they are not garbage, but do consider the context/75 list those cards are in.
As to Burn, there're footage of Burn players crushing Miracles using Firecraft, it's a valid concern.
https://youtu.be/ampBaRyWxZM
However, RiP is not it.
Apologies, I only included names originally to describe two specialized players. I would never play either one of those lists regardless, and I would never play Peacekeeper unless it was for the reason Duke did, a 16 player metagame where at least 1 player was GUARANTEED to be on infect.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I will always respect burn, but having firecraft isn't necessarily different from things like vexing shusher, and we will continue to play to beat them like we usually do.
RIP is not helpful against burn.
I have a script that downloads SCG results and compiles Swiss records for all players in Legacy Opens or Open weekend Premier IQs (as long as they're on SCG's site).Quote:
Originally Posted by decan
Joe Lossett is 298-103-46, with 9 byes (71.81% MW, including intentional draws but not byes)
Reid Duke is 113-44-12, with 1 bye (70.41% MW, including intentional draws but not byes)
Reid Duke may be one of the best Magic players overall, but it isn't unreasonable to compare a non-pro top-level Legacy specialist to a pro who's less specialized (as long as you're talking about Legacy).
Thanks for the data. Another point i want to add is data cant messure the opponents skill level. The results seem similar. But Reid only plays tournament within reasonable distance to sugarloaf. I feel like the general skill level of east coast players is higher because they have more big events. Add to that that Joe plays a lot of IQ's. So Joes stats could be quite inflated. But I agree that specialising in a format can decrease the gap by a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
But enough of that, this is very off topic.
I've recently got back to trying to build my miracles deck. I don't have all the cards yet but I'm slowly by getting there. For the sake of budget ( and that it's kinda cool ), I'm going to construct a RIP build that's only u/w. Here's the list I'm going for at the moment.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8383&d=248178&f=LE
I understand this is not the most optimal way to play miracles, but given my criteria do you think this is the best lost I can go for? What changes would you make to this list to improve it?
Thanks,
If you're building that exact list you could cut a tundra and the karakas and more than pay for a volcanic island.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigturk94
I don't have the exact cards as that list, I only have 1 tundra and no krakas. I also don't have the exact sideborad. Should have put this is my original post, oops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa
If I were you I'd just build normal miracles and play basics/shocks while you get it in order. That's what I did and I'm pretty happy about the way it worked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigturk94
We could probably be more helpful if you posted what you have already. If you already have tarns then I'd say just splash red with a mountain/steamvents because red blasts are insanely good.
Got to hate that player. Bad and slow.Quote:
As to Burn, there're footage of Burn players crushing Miracles using Firecraft, it's a valid concern.
https://youtu.be/ampBaRyWxZM
However, RiP is not it.
Playing RIP, helm, Energy field and 23 lands, seems much more expensive than playing 21 lands, 4 ponders and more counterspells and removal. Also, RIP and its friends are just not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigturk94
If you on a budget, you can get away with 1 tundra for a while. 4 is never needed, even if you had all the cards in the world and karakas is also not really good in your build. Fetchlands are essential, you NEED at least 9 of them, ideally even more. Buy these before you buy any more duals or other pricey cards.
I keep a running budget miracles list updated because people are always asking where to start with the deck when on a budget, this is probably very close to your best option:
21 LANDS
4 Island
2 Steam Vents
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Other Blue fetches (doesnt matter what ones)
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
4 Force of Will (You can probably get away with 3 FoW and another Counterspell for a while if you want to)
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (some lists might want 3 Jace, personally I am not even using my 3rd jace right now because I think 2 is the right number in this meta)
2 Monestary Mentor
Snapcaster is expensive, and very good, but the deck can function without him. Eventually you should get 3ish of them though.
SIDEBOARD:
2 Rest in Peace
3 Meddling Mage
3 Pyroblast
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Council's Judgment
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Counterspells/Spellpeirce >> 2 Flusterstorm
Flusterstorm is a very expensive card, but its relatively low impact for its cost. Also, in some metas I chose to not even use my flusters because spell peirce was better at the time. So you can get that latter.
Priority for expensive things:
1. Top, CB, 9+ Fetchlands: the deck needs these.
2. 2 Jace
3. 1 Tundra
4. FoW
5. 1 more tundra, 1 Volc
6. Snapcasters, 3rd jace (if the meta is even good for jace)
7. 1 more tundra, 1 Volc
8. SB stuff (blood moon, flusterstorm, etc)
You are aware that this is the gentleman who won GP Kyoto right? He's a very prominent miracles player in the Japan area and has had really good finishes with this list. His list was heavily metagamed for Japan (Omnitell central) with wastelands to combat boseiju. He's overall an immaculate player if you watch GP Kyoto. And the burn player in the video is one of the best burn players I've ever seen. Multiple top 8's with the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
Wow, that helps a lot thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
My logic for me using a RIP list was because I already had the cards for it ( helm,RIP, energy shield ), and the price of snapcasters was a little steep. Given that, I'll be defiantly using your from now on. It seems much more powerful and it avoids snaps.
My advice to anyone making blue decks on a budget is just play more cantrips. Like if you are missing a card, add a preordian, it will never be too bad. I have not seen a updated list from him in a while, but if you take Reid Dukes approach to Miracles (no snaps or cliques) and just cut to 21 lands, play some shocks, and add 4 ponders will probably give you the best bang for your buck. Snapcaster is mostly just in the deck to because its really good value and it lets us play more brainstorms. You will just have to be a little more deliberate with your brainstorms since you will likely cast less of them throughout the game if you are not playing 3 jace and 3 snap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigturk94
If you want to capitalize on the fact that you are not playing snapcaster, another option is to play 1-2 maindeck Relic of Progenitis. I have seen very good players (Joe, Ried, Eli) do this before and it can be really good. RIP is totally dead in some matchups and low impact in others. Relic is never totally dead. As cool as it is, energy field and helm are just not consistent, and don't make RIP worth playing.
No doubt he's a great player but I will say I was shocked he shuffled away the terminus, I guess he felt he wasn't getting anywhere? A fireblast just felt inevitable. Anyone have insight there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
Really? I feel he played poorly the first game, didn't bother with the rest because of the pace, honestly. Its easy to talk behind the screen an things are different live, but still.Quote:
You are aware that this is the gentleman who won GP Kyoto right? He's a very prominent miracles player in the Japan area and has had really good finishes with this list. His list was heavily metagamed for Japan (Omnitell central) with wastelands to combat boseiju. He's overall an immaculate player if you watch GP Kyoto. And the burn player in the video is one of the best burn players I've ever seen. Multiple top 8's with the deck.
Yes really. And I think it's case of both players playing the game really really well, and it's harder to see split decisions like that from a perspective of the viewer who has all the information. I would recommend simply rewatching coverage with only the perspective of one player at a time; just try to get your head into what the player is thinking about given the only information they were privy to. I think, then, you'll realize that this was a case of 2 players playing well rather than one player playing poorly.
Watched the first game again just to be sure. It was actually difficult to lose that one, not well played at all. Now what is beyond me is that this guy managed to win a gp, specially considering his lethargic style.
It could also be a case of the guy not respecting the burn opponent. Not totally unheard of. Regardless, I don't think burn is a matchup anyone can dismiss, the deck has been quite good for quite some time.
So many Shardless, So many....
Here's another wild idea: how about Chalice? What is it good for? Well, mostly LED, Lotus Petal, and Ancestral Vision.
Why not just Red Blast the Vision, CB flip counter the Vision? Well.., because it's difficult to have a hand against BUG decks running discard and Liliana. Oh~ before you ask, I have misdirected Hymn before, and Shardless still luck sac or eventually climbed back into the game because a Vision resolved. CB flip counter could work, but BUG decks pack needles and/or null rods for SDT, so I won't even count on CB that much.
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http://www.magiccardmarket.eu/MKMSer...&idt=3&idev=20
Looking at the brackets, a mentor miracles lost to ant while another mentor miracles lost to sneak and show. I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise if you think about their 75s.
Played in 2 tournaments the last 2 weekends.
2-0 Esper Mentor
2-0 Infect
2-1 Miracles
2-0 ANT
ID
ID
QF: 1-2 DxT
------------------------
2-0 Elves
1-1 Ichorid
2-0 RW Prison
1-1 Grixis Delver
2-0 4C Control
QF: 2-0 RUG Delver
SF: 1-2 Punishing Blue
Decklist:(Angelo Cadei's list)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Counsil’s Judgement
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
sideboard:
3 Flusterstorm
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wear//Tear
1 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Containment Priest
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
Games went really smooth, the Punishing Blue MU is very hard though.. Won g1 with EOT entreat before he takes control.. Lost g2 to a T1 CotV and g3 was a real grind. I eventually find W/T for his CotV@1 and Sylvan Library he played, but it was too late already.
This is a matchup (also DxT) where I would really like a second effect like Wear//Tear, possibly a Disenchant replacing the Izzet Staticaster.
I think Izzet Staticaster is quite useful (like Infect,Elves,Maverick,ANT,..) but not necessarily needed in the sideboard.
Greetings-
Excellent to hear! This is a list very similar to what I'm running myself, and it seems many Europeans are having success with its ilk. Here's Einherjar latest list (extremely similar) shown via a tweet from Julian Knab:Quote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_
https://twitter.com/itsJulian23/stat...12279405682688
I imagine the matchup against non-blue decks is overall slightly worse, so mentor main deck helps shore that up. I agree with the point about staticaster, but there's a lot of infect around here so that card is invaluable.
Hi there, im realtively new to the deck and have a few questions:
1) In which specific matchups we dont want to have entreat the angls postboard?
2) Which build would you recommend in a meta filled with control (Miracles, Stoneblade, Sharldess BUG, Dragon Stompy and Lands), combo (Reanimator, Dredge and ANT), but without any DnT/Maverick and little to no delver.dec? I was thinking of Lossets Legend miracles list
1) Any fast combo MU (Elves, TES, ANT) since once you counter their going-off turn, you can Jace them out. SneakShow I would keep them in since they're another 3 drop to counter SnT, and if you can stall long enough to make X = 2, they have to counter it, meaning 1 less counter to fight through when they want to SnT.Quote:
Originally Posted by kkkant
2) Not too sure, but going heavier on Legends seems correct.
Am I the only one who tried out the 2x mentor main variant and didn't like it?
Unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by deliciouswaffles`
It would be super interesting what you've played against and why you didn't like it though. Otherwise, it's pretty irrelevant...
I am a little lost. Why did suddenly (I mean since last year) playing ponder became a must in almost every miracle build? I'm not saying it's not great, but for a lot of time nobody used to play it and the deck did great anyways. Has anything changed or it's just the build getting closer to its ideal?
I don't think this is a new change, the majority of miracles players have been playing ponder lists for a while. It was really only Joe Lossett that was playing the legends build without ponder to any great success.Quote:
Originally Posted by kkkant
While it wasn't the Legends version, Ried Duke was also crushing some folks in the pre-DTT era with ponder-less Miracles. Duke was a bit unconventional however with his land heavy, totally creature-less version. Regardless it did well.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyout
I didn't like it as a 2-of in the 75, so I probably won't like it as a 2-of in the 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by deliciouswaffles`
Quick question: how would you guys board against Punishing Blue?
I've also found this particular matchup to be quite a challenge and wondered what the key is to swing this matchups in your favor.
Most games I won were when I would achieve a full counterbalance lock (2 and 3 drops on top) to put enough damage through or with some graveyard hate to remove punishing fires. The problem is that the counterbalance lock is only a temporary solution as it's just a matter of time before they draw their abrupt decays to remove it.