[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tammit67

Is Jund really that bad for 12 post? It was good seeing you out there (I think it was you), glad you had more success with Nic Fit!

---

Yeah it was. And in my experience it is. I saw you were running a Needle version, though, which would probably make a lot of difference -- mine's still on brainstorm. The combination of wastelands + t2-3 Liliana of the Veil (which we have no pressure to hold off from ultimate) + discard + efficient threats is a serious problem. I was doing everything I could -- including the fabled Repeal Liliana in response to her +1 when your opponent is hellbent -- and it just wasn't enough. I'd win a game or two here or there, but never a whole match. Jund is probably the deck that I'm most afraid of with 12post.

I just wish I'd realized sooner that the Belchers and TESs and ANTs and Show and Tells and Dredges and Reanimators weren't out in large number -- would've definitely taken down a few more with Scapewish. It's so weird, though -- those are usually what Win-a-boxes at GPs are infested with...the dumb non-interactive combo decks that win on t0-t2. Pitt was kind of an odd exception.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cire_dk

Great read, thanks for that. Is there anything you would change to the deck. I noted you boarded out P Fire quite often. Are they still worth it?

---

Thanks!

Tao pretty much hit the nail on the head with his response. The Punishing Fires are absolutely brutal in any kind of fair/creature matchup. A great example was against my UWR Delver oppponent where he simply could not keep a creature on board. I just happened to play against lots of combo on the day where they are less than stellar. Also, as he said, it's safe to board out 1-2 in the U/W matchups especially if you're expecting Surgicals out of Stoneblade.

As far as changes go, I wouldn't really do anything. I'm very happy with the list where it's at. Tao suggested cutting a Forest for a Foothills which is probably fine, but personally I want enough basics to get full value out of my Explorers and cast all my cards (Garruk). Personal preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobmans

I noticed you didn't bring Volrath's Stronghold and you where playing Garruk, Primal Hunter instead of Garruk Relentless. What was the reasoning behind those choices?

---

Again, like Tao said, too many colorless lands is a problem and the Wolf Run and Tower are FAR more important. I would not cut a colored source from the deck. I would cut a spell before or play 61 cards if I wanted a Stronghold. I have done it in the past, but in the current meta, it's unnecessary for the reasons Tao explained (though if I could play another colorless land it would be Stronghold cuz I'm a sucker for value).

Also Primal Hunter is nuts. That's it. In a vaccuum, he's the more powerful card of the two, and since I'm playing plenty of extra green sources with Groves, I definitely just prefer the better card. The amount of raw card advantage he provides is simply absurd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus

@HoneyT

Great report, congratulations. Stellar job on those horrible matchups.

I'm curious how you liked Broodmate Dragon over a second Thrag or a second Garruk PH?

---

Thanks!!

Broodmate Dragon is awesome. The deck wants a second 6-drop for curve considerations and Broodmate Dragon is the best fit. He stabilizes the board immediately against a bunch of creatures, provides a very fast, evasive clock, and is mostly spot removal proof since he's split up between two beefy bodies. He an important part of the GSZ toolbox that does just about everything you want out of that slot.

Also @Arianrhod (for value): Feel better man!

@HoneyT

Was looking through your list and it seems quite well rounded. Just a few questions:

1) Whats your stand on packing more discard MD? I was thinking -1 Garruk -1 DRS for 2 Thoughtseize?
2) I've seen a lot of lists packing 3 Huntmaster, but I think 3 is cloggy and 2 seems to be the better number. Whats your reason for playing 2?
3) How's the lone DRS? How often do you find yourself GSZ'ing for it instead of Veteran Explorer?
4) I've always been a fan of 2 Thragtusks. It gives more clock, plus it just helps against a lot of matchups. If you had 1 more creature slot, what would you play?

I've been been playing GB Nic Fit and I think Punishing Nic Fit would be the way to go once I can get the lands. :smile:

How would you guys feel about Bonfire back in the maindeck with how the meta is shifting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sherko7

@HoneyT

Was looking through your list and it seems quite well rounded. Just a few questions:

1) Whats your stand on packing more discard MD? I was thinking -1 Garruk -1 DRS for 2 Thoughtseize?
2) I've seen a lot of lists packing 3 Huntmaster, but I think 3 is cloggy and 2 seems to be the better number. Whats your reason for playing 2?
3) How's the lone DRS? How often do you find yourself GSZ'ing for it instead of Veteran Explorer?
4) I've always been a fan of 2 Thragtusks. It gives more clock, plus it just helps against a lot of matchups. If you had 1 more creature slot, what would you play?

I've been been playing GB Nic Fit and I think Punishing Nic Fit would be the way to go once I can get the lands. :smile:

---

1) The extra discard is at it's best against the combo decks and the two slots aren't enough to make it consistently winnable game one anyway so it's not really worth it. I'll take the extra bomb and utility dude.
2) For curve considerations, the deck wants a certain number of 4 drops. Huntmaster is insane but Thrun is WAAAAYYY better than the third Huntmaster. Ever used a Wolf Run on a Thrun? Try it. Feels great.
3) The DRS is nice. I Zenith for it often enough especially against decks where I want acceleration but don't want to or can't set off an Explorer. I also Zenith for him early against combo. He's another way to ensure I can cast a turn 3 Slaughter Games even without an Explorer. In KC I Zenithed for him against ANT and he clocked half of his life total, made his PiF irrelevant and ensured his Cabal Rituals were never at Threshold. He's also just a random awesome utility dude that doesn't take up much deck space in our GSZ toolbox.
4) I haven't found a second Tusk necessary. It's certainly fine, but not needed. To be fair, if I wanted to make room for another creature though it would be the second Tusk. Again, we can only play so many high end drops and Garruk is way better than the 2nd(5th) Thragtusk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nottz

How would you guys feel about Bonfire back in the maindeck with how the meta is shifting.

---

There's still way too many Tarmogoyfs IMO. Bonfire is at its best when Goyf has a low presence in the meta. Goyf's just too beefy for Bonfire to effectively kill.

-----

I second -almost- everything that HoneyT said. I personally didn't like Deathrite in the deck when I tried him. I also dislike Thrun with a fierce hatred in decks that do not involve Stoneforge Mystic. However, I will grant HoneyT that Thrun is probably insane in PFire builds because of the presence of Wolf Run. Without Wolf Run, though, I still don't think that Thrun is playable. He's just too small -- he needs enhancement of some kind. If you -can- enhance him, though, he's the stone nut.

I will note that for Scapewish and G/B specifically, the 2nd Tusk is probably still correct. Scapewish wants the time that Tusk buys so that it can dig for Scapeshift. G/B is more limited in playable threats, and I would happily take a 2nd Tusk over something like a Deranged Hermit or a Spiritmonger any day of the week. PFire can get away with a 1-of Tusk, and white versions have Sigarda.

I've been playing p-fire build more lately. I might play it over scapewish at the next mythic event.

I also hate thrun as a card. But in p-fire he is a total beast. The wolf run helps, I also run a Wolfir silverheart in the slot honey T has broodmate in. But really the reason he is good in that list, is because the board is almost always clear of blockers. With 4 pfires, 2-4 decays, 1-2 pulse and 3 deeds, nothing ever blocks him.

Also, Im not a fan of broodmate. Primetitan+lands resolving usually wins the game. Broodmate gets outraced by a large goyf or knight. And dies to abrupt decays + another spell. Yes, it's a 2 for 1, but he's going to sit in our hand and be useless as a 6 drop more often than he 2 for 1s. Silverheart, isn't as big an investment at 5 mana and packs a much bigger punch. He also has an impact on combat the turn he comes into play if you have a soulbound target.

Idk about deathrite, i tried him briefly and didn't like him in nic fit, but I might not have given him enough chance. Different from honeyt's list, I've been doing -1 ooze, -1 wit, -1 DRS, +2 Tribe elders, +1 volraths stronghold. Which I have been liking, although having an ooze in the 75 would be nice. The mana base is super solid, I have more shuffle effects and access to stronghold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

I've been playing p-fire build more lately. I might play it over scapewish at the next mythic event.

I also hate thrun as a card. But in p-fire he is a total beast. The wolf run helps, I also run a Wolfir silverheart in the slot honey T has broodmate in. But really the reason he is good in that list, is because the board is almost always clear of blockers. With 4 pfires, 2-4 decays, 1-2 pulse and 3 deeds, nothing ever blocks him.

Also, Im not a fan of broodmate. Primetitan+lands resolving usually wins the game. Broodmate gets outraced by a large goyf or knight. And dies to abrupt decays + another spell. Yes, it's a 2 for 1, but he's going to sit in our hand and be useless as a 6 drop more often than he 2 for 1s. Silverheart, isn't as big an investment at 5 mana and packs a much bigger punch. He also has an impact on combat the turn he comes into play if you have a soulbound target.

Idk about deathrite, i tried him briefly and didn't like him in nic fit, but I might not have given him enough chance. Different from honeyt's list, I've been doing -1 ooze, -1 wit, -1 DRS, +2 Tribe elders, +1 volraths stronghold. Which I have been liking, although having an ooze in the 75 would be nice. The mana base is super solid, I have more shuffle effects and access to stronghold.

---

/barn. I like Silverheart over Broodmate in PFire.

Hey guys, I just split 1st/2nd place at the local legacy with Scapewish, going 4-0-1 (undefeated).
There were a lot of players, most of the decks were combo and midrange/tempo decks...although I didn't face any combo deck luckily.

Here is my Scapewish Nic Fit:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Wickerbough Elder
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Senseis Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift
5 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
1 Stomping Ground
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run

Sideboard:
1 Scapeshift
1 Pyroclasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 reanimate
1 Reverent Silence
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
3 Slaughter Games
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Duress
1 Surgical Extraction

I played against BR suicide (red death), Esper Stoneblade, Canadian Threshold, Affinity & BUG Tempo. Overall good matchups :)
Kessig Wolf Run wasn't that great except vs. Stoneblade so I could trample through his blockers to kill Jace TMS. I probably should cut Wolf Run...
Broodmate Dragon also seemed underwhelming and I never really used it, I will try out 2nd Primeval Titan or Garruk, Primal Hunter here next time.
If the meta continues with lots of combo decks, mostly Storm, I'll cut Reverent Silence and maybe Reanimate for 2 more hate cards in the SB.

How was Wolf Run for you, Alex?

Kessig Wolf Run wasn't that great except vs. Stoneblade : D so I could trample through his blockers to kill Jace TMS. I probably should cut Wolf Run...it's not really necessary
Broodmate Dragon also seemed underwhelming and I never really used it, I will try out 2nd Primeval Titan or Garruk Primal Hunter here next time ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

Also, Im not a fan of broodmate. Primetitan+lands resolving usually wins the game. Broodmate gets outraced by a large goyf or knight. And dies to abrupt decays + another spell. Yes, it's a 2 for 1, but he's going to sit in our hand and be useless as a 6 drop more often than he 2 for 1s. Silverheart, isn't as big an investment at 5 mana and packs a much bigger punch. He also has an impact on combat the turn he comes into play if you have a soulbound target.

---

Saying you should play Silverheart over Broodmate doesn't make sense when your argument is it dies to two pieces of removal. Silverheart dies to one. I'm not saying the card is bad, on the contrary, it's quite good when paired with tramplers and/or shroud dudes (I've used him in GB with Kodama of the North Tree).

Broodmate Dragon, in general serves more functions. It stabilizes most board states immediately, provides two beefy evasive bodies, doesn't lose to a single removal spell, and doesn't require another creature to be on board for it to do anything. The Dragon has been stellar for me. Until it starts underperforming it will have a place in the deck.

On the Wolf Run: I think the card only belongs in straight Jund lists. It doesn't do enough in Scapewish.

I have a very high ant/tes sneak and show environment. Which version would be best vs sneak and show?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CRich3

I have a very high ant/tes sneak and show environment. Which version would be best vs sneak and show?

---

Probably rector or scapeshift. Rector because humilty and other hate cards. I dont think Ive lost to a sneak and show deck in an actual tournement with scapeshift. REB in the SB is really good. You also cut their win cons in half. They basically HAVE to either show Gris (NOT emrakul) or use sneak attack. If they go S&T>Em, you can kill it with on of the decks effect 4 innocent bloods, or what ive done in the past is show in prime titan and then kill both their emrakul and deal 20 to their dome the next turn with a scapeshift. If you slaughtergames/surgical their sneaks and/or griselbrands they have a much harder time winning.

Quote:

---

Saying you should play Silverheart over Broodmate doesn't make sense when your argument is it dies to two pieces of removal. Silverheart dies to one. I'm not saying the card is bad, on the contrary, it's quite good when paired with tramplers and/or shroud dudes (I've used him in GB with Kodama of the North Tree).

Broodmate Dragon, in general serves more functions. It stabilizes most board states immediately, provides two beefy evasive bodies, doesn't lose to a single removal spell, and doesn't require another creature to be on board for it to do anything. The Dragon has been stellar for me. Until it starts underperforming it will have a place in the deck.

---

I see what you mean, but broodmate gets hit to a lot of the format's removal that silverheart doesnt care about, and our deck in general doesnt care about. Abrupt decay, punishing fire, EE, etc. All cards that are pretty much dead until you cast broodmate or huntmaster. Also the difference in mana costs can matter.

Running Scapewish tonight at my local. Testing out Garruk, Primal Hunter in place of the Promise of Power maindeck. I also made the very long over-due switch from Virtue's Ruin to Perish finally, and I replaced the Promise of Power in the sideboard with a Collective Voyage mostly because I ran out of time to put in anything better. I really hate having 1 open slot in my sideboard, because it isn't enough for an "actual" sideboard card like Surgical or Extirpate; nor do I feel good putting in like a 1-of enchantment or PW or something else that I can't tutor. Actually just miserable.

I do have a few ideas of things that I want to try in that slot, but I simply ran out of time last night, so I'm gonna give the ramp option another try. I'm not optimistic on it impressing me this time around any more than it did last time.

Also: who here is going to Strasbourg and with what variants? I need to know who I'm rooting for, dammit!

I'm going and probably taking Biomancer BUG :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I also made the very long over-due switch from Virtue's Ruin to Perish finally

---

why the switch to perish? the rise of the abundance of tarmogoyfs?

BTW, I have been using wolf run in my scapewish lists for about 5 months now, while it is not stellar, it is able to eek me out a lot of games against grindy decks like deadguy, team italia and zombardment by clocking them much much faster and demanding them to answer a threat as minor as a wood elf in the later stages of the game

Arianrhod, do you still feel that Avenger of Zendikar deserves a slot in Scapewish? Just wondering before I go out and get one. Eight dollars is still eight dollars!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridia

I'm going and probably taking Biomancer BUG :)

---

You think that it's actually good enough to run in a GP? I've thought about trying a straight BUG tokens list with Biomancer, but I've never been able to work up the gumption to actually build it. I certainly wouldn't think that it's good enough for a GP. But hey, hopefully I'm wrong!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fireiced

why the switch to perish? the rise of the abundance of tarmogoyfs?

BTW, I have been using wolf run in my scapewish lists for about 5 months now, while it is not stellar, it is able to eek me out a lot of games against grindy decks like deadguy, team italia and zombardment by clocking them much much faster and demanding them to answer a threat as minor as a wood elf in the later stages of the game

---

Eh. I usually end up Shifting those decks to oblivion. Top is your friend. I also feel that Wolf Run's stock is even lower in Scapewish especially than usual due to the rise of Punishing Fire.

And yeah -- more Goyfs and more Elves, with a complete lack of Death and Taxes. If DnT and Maverick pop up again in a big way then I might switch back to Virtue's Ruin....but until then Perish is going to be a better use of the same slot. I wouldn't leave home without one or the other, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star|Scream

Arianrhod, do you still feel that Avenger of Zendikar deserves a slot in Scapewish? Just wondering before I go out and get one. Eight dollars is still eight dollars!

---

Very much so. Avenger has been fantastic for me against all varieties of decks.