Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Gonna be playing in a tournament tomorrow myself. I'm giving Abzan a shot because I'm not happy with the matchup Scapewish has against a few decks - mainly Infect (which is absolutely awful) and against Lands (which is also terrible). Path is pretty tempting right now.
I am hedging hard against combo and Miracles matchups though, probably with 2 Surgical Extraction main deck. The only decks I'm not happy to see it against are DnT and Burn, and I have plenty of game against them anyway (playing 2 Massacre in the board for DnT).
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Main deck teeg before you lean on mb surgicals.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
Gonna be playing in a tournament tomorrow myself. I'm giving Abzan a shot because I'm not happy with the matchup Scapewish has against a few decks - mainly Infect (which is absolutely awful) and against Lands (which is also terrible). Path is pretty tempting right now.
I am hedging hard against combo and Miracles matchups though, probably with 2 Surgical Extraction main deck. The only decks I'm not happy to see it against are DnT and Burn, and I have plenty of game against them anyway (playing 2 Massacre in the board for DnT).
Maindeck the Slaughter Games if you're worried about this, although Teeg should be on your radar too, for sure.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Scooze: I love Scooze. Straight up wins games, beats GY decks, laughs at Goyf and DRS (who are seriously back on the 'scene in my meta). I completely agree with uncletiggy...he never leaves the deck. Last event I was even bringing in scooze #2.
@Courser/Nissa: We're not talking about Frostweb Spider. They are legit flex options. However, I'll clarify a point of contention for everybody: both cards are heavily dependent upon board position and luck. Yes, luck. If your deck can magically pull together some solid topdecks and/or you can sequence together some strong plays after these guys hit the table, either card is appropriate in the deck. I feel exactly the same way towards Diabolic Intent and Recurring Nightmare. All of those cards have very different opinions because conditional factors influence how great/poor they play.
Speaking of play, playstyle and style of Nic Fit is also a factor. I've learned that ramping is kinda important. It's one of my priorities and I thank others in the thread for helping me realize this. Why? Because I got my hunnies Sigarda, Baneslayer, and Dromoka. Those curve-toppers work for me. I try to make the rest of the deck work for them. I'm of the opinion Courser and Nissa and even Sakura help the cause in that regard.
@Losing:
I can boil down my losses into 4 categories
1 - I watch the opponent chain all the good things, but I have almost no business myself (ie; shardless into goyf, cast liliana - sac my 1 durdle in play; swing with flipped delver T2, protect him with daze/fow/pierce, bolt-bolt GG; No counterspell for my sigarda!? Miracle trigger drop 6 4/4 angels; turn 2/3 NO from elf player GG)
2 - Land-flooded with a side-helping of drawing fetchlands for days
3 - Opponent's strategy is too fast (elves, eldrazi, SnT, Reanimator, storm, belcher, combo-lands, god delver hands)
4 - Like taking an exam, early in the game I am presented with "choice A" and "choice B" and I need to select the best choice. I guess wrong and the entire game punishes me for something I did on turn 3.
@random thoughts:
Thoughtseize has been lackluster in the meta
Carpet of flowers is very hit-or-miss
Surgical/DRS/Scooze is strong anti-GY and anti-delver
Elves is a crapshoot. Eldrazi with post-lands is impossible. Eldrazi with pain sol-lands/chalice is winnable.
Teeg is a monster
KotR is a babe. But she needs wastelands. Wastelands would be awfully strong in my meta right now.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Warden
@Scooze: I love Scooze. Straight up wins games, beats GY decks, laughs at Goyf and DRS (who are seriously back on the 'scene in my meta). I completely agree with uncletiggy...he never leaves the deck. Last event I was even bringing in scooze #2.
@Courser/Nissa: We're not talking about Frostweb Spider. They are legit flex options. However, I'll clarify a point of contention for everybody: both cards are heavily dependent upon board position and luck. Yes, luck. If your deck can magically pull together some solid topdecks and/or you can sequence together some strong plays after these guys hit the table, either card is appropriate in the deck. I feel exactly the same way towards Diabolic Intent and Recurring Nightmare. All of those cards have very different opinions because conditional factors influence how great/poor they play.
Speaking of play, playstyle and style of Nic Fit is also a factor. I've learned that ramping is kinda important. It's one of my priorities and I thank others in the thread for helping me realize this. Why? Because I got my hunnies Sigarda, Baneslayer, and Dromoka. Those curve-toppers work for me. I try to make the rest of the deck work for them. I'm of the opinion Courser and Nissa and even Sakura help the cause in that regard.
@Losing:
I can boil down my losses into 4 categories
1 - I watch the opponent chain all the good things, but I have almost no business myself (ie; shardless into goyf, cast liliana - sac my 1 durdle in play; swing with flipped delver T2, protect him with daze/fow/pierce, bolt-bolt GG; No counterspell for my sigarda!? Miracle trigger drop 6 4/4 angels; turn 2/3 NO from elf player GG)
2 - Land-flooded with a side-helping of drawing fetchlands for days
3 - Opponent's strategy is too fast (elves, eldrazi, SnT, Reanimator, storm, belcher, combo-lands, god delver hands)
4 - Like taking an exam, early in the game I am presented with "choice A" and "choice B" and I need to select the best choice. I guess wrong and the entire game punishes me for something I did on turn 3.
@random thoughts:
Thoughtseize has been lackluster in the meta
Carpet of flowers is very hit-or-miss
Surgical/DRS/Scooze is strong anti-GY and anti-delver
Elves is a crapshoot. Eldrazi with post-lands is impossible. Eldrazi with pain sol-lands/chalice is winnable.
Teeg is a monster
KotR is a babe. But she needs wastelands. Wastelands would be awfully strong in my meta right now.
Thoyghtseize has been a bit shitty, but you need early interaction. If youre on Junk w/ s. Games, consider just throwing in "FromThe Ashes" to shore up Eldrazi and all the greedy decks like Shardless.
Played last night and found I was running out of gas a bit against Grixis Delver. Could be rust or bad keeps, but Ill be testing the third Truths again.
More post to come later when im not mobile.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
I wouldn't call it a "petty dispute", but an occasion to discuss our own play styles. You all should've commented too on the topic to express your opinion. I don't really get hurt if you have a different opinion, heck I am waiting to be proved wrong to improve myself. That's what it matters to me. I am used to some of Echelon's provocative answers, but I think both of us were discussing normally today? I know I was.
I agree with you on this :smile:.
@rest of this board: I know I seem to get a little heated whenever I'm having a discussion with rubble, but I'd happily go and have a beer with him anytime. I honestly think he's a perfectly nice guy.
Look, I'm used to having firey discussions, it's a major part of my job (and I'm guessing the same goes for rubble). Going deep and being a little rough isn't something bad, as long as all parties involved understand that the heat isn't aimed at them as a person but at the matter being discussed. I agree with rubble that the rest of you should have felt free to chime in.
How are we ever to improve if we only stick to rainbows and unicorns?
On Thoughtseize: I run Duress in that slot. I mostly board in discard vs. decks where I want to strip away non-creatures anyway so why would I want to pay 2 life when I don't necessarily have to?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@thoughseize aside from obvious combo matchups i traditionally also bring them in in any occasion where i board out some number of explorers over two therapies. its also worth noting that sometimes you have to take emrakul or grislebrand to disrupt your sns opponets keep duress fails in this application. duress is really at its best when all you are looking to take is permission.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I'm already running Teeg main. I'm going for Surgical over Slaughter because it can hit lands, and the Combo Lands matchup is one I usually see quite a lot of. Taking Loam is nice but not as good insurance as just removing Depths or Stage.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pettdan
Also I'll be playing at GP Prague this year and think I may be playing a fit list. Would be really nice to say hello to anyone else attending, I was too lazy at Lille last year.
20mins from my house. I think I will be there. ;-)
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pettdan
@Courser:
I'm divided on this. When it works it's great, simultaneously letting you pull ahead of the opponent by continous landdrops and drawing relevant cards, seeing more cards too with an active top than you otherwise would. Life gain is a bonus and the body is relevant in some matchups (vs pyromancer, goblins, thalia..) but that's only side effects. In other words, when it's good it's a better Dark Confidant. Some of the most frustrating losses to me are the grindy games vs decks (usually blue) where the game state is even (=to your advantage) and you don't draw top or just see lands/discard for 3-4 turns and lose. Courser helps mitigate that risk, costing 1 slot only. Another situation where Courser shines: say you have to mulligan and start with 2-3 lands, maybe a top, a GSZ and a removal spell or similar. In these situations I want Courser since he allows me to regain the lost cards while also ensuring I draw some relevant spells. While also presenting a solid blocker and life gain to help you survive until you've gained the time you need to establish a favourable board position. What other single, GSZ-able card allows this and for 3 CMC? Of course he can be killed, but in above scenario you don't want to have to pay an extra mana (out of Decay range) since the major reason you need him is you're short on resources. He's not boltable, and for a Dark Confidant that's already pretty good.
When Courser is not good.. Is basically the same scenarios as above, but you don't see lands on top of your deck for several rounds. The disadvantage of a life gaining Confidant, it sometimes bricks.
Courser is a jack of all trades type of card. It does a lot of little things the deck likes.
It has a 2/4 body which matches up well against a lot of cards in the format, but it's still out classed by other cards.
It offers a medium amount of lifegain which this deck can then convert into other effects like Deluge/Library.
It's another way to clear Top/Library.
It dodges a lot of deeds (but not all).
It gives you a lot of information when to use shuffles without Top.
With a deck based around GSZ I think a lot of people focus on the specialist cards that just crush any given matchup, but they don't pay enough attention to the cards that are just always at a medium power level in pretty much any match, Courser is one such card. What it does usually isn't very flashy but it does a lot of little things that add up to a big impact on the game.
I used to hate Courser, it just doesn't look like what a Legacy card should look like. Then I started playing it and it's just incredible in this deck as long as you can drag the game out longer than turn 3.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
I used to hate Courser, it just doesn't look like what a Legacy card should look like. Then I started playing it and it's just incredible in this deck as long as you can drag the game out longer than turn 3.
That's exacty it. It looks bland, even a little when actually on the board, but it does so, so much work (when it sticks around). It's one of the reasons why I run 10 fetchlands - whenever Courser hits the field you're sure to have a way to shuffle away that top card that you don't want for nearly 0 cost.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
I agree with you on this :smile:.
@rest of this board: I know I seem to get a little heated whenever I'm having a discussion with rubble, but I'd happily go and have a beer with him anytime. I honestly think he's a perfectly nice guy.
Look, I'm used to having firey discussions, it's a major part of my job (and I'm guessing the same goes for rubble). Going deep and being a little rough isn't something bad, as long as all parties involved understand that the heat isn't aimed at them as a person but at the matter being discussed. I agree with rubble that the rest of you should have felt free to chime in.
How are we ever to improve if we only stick to rainbows and unicorns?
On Thoughtseize: I run Duress in that slot. I mostly board in discard vs. decks where I want to strip away non-creatures anyway so why would I want to pay 2 life when I don't necessarily have to?
You want Thoughtseize because Elves and Sneak/Show will punish you for running Duress. If you're on Surgical Extractions, it can also be relevant vs Reanimator, since it gives you the line of TSeize+Surgical Griselbrand vs their Careful Study hands.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
You want Thoughtseize because Elves and Sneak/Show will punish you for running Duress. If you're on Surgical Extractions, it can also be relevant vs Reanimator, since it gives you the line of TSeize+Surgical Griselbrand vs their Careful Study hands.
Would you agree that if you face more Lands to run Extirpate? Im on neither currently, but your thoughts? I think if you see combo of any kind, Surgical is better dor that reason.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I played with Couser for a while and LOVED him with top. Couser is alright but two latest tourment I wanted to get my second Witness. So Couser had to leave and now I have Witness.
Nobody talks about Witness, I guess everyone agree that card should be in the deck?
I have a flip Nissa now and want to try it out myself, probabally need to take out a witness -_-
Or 61 cards...
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganfar
I played with Couser for a while and LOVED him with top. Couser is alright but two latest tourment I wanted to get my second Witness. So Couser had to leave and now I have Witness.
Nobody talks about Witness, I guess everyone agree that card should be in the deck?
I have a flip Nissa now and want to try it out myself, probabally need to take out a witness -_-
Or 61 cards...
I play 2 Courser, 1 Witness, 0 Nissa with 61 cards. I want to try Nissa, but I can't find a cut either because I'm not really unhappy with any current cards.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
So after reading this tournament report, I realized that you can just put Monastery Mentor in basically anything and profit. (Not to detract from that author or his deck, I think his deck is awesome and original)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Monastery Mentor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Painful Truths
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
Just a rough sketch, but there is good synergy between mentor and natural Nic Fit shell with Cabal Therapy and Sensei's Divining Tops. How many of you guys hate extraneous Sensei's Tops? Why not turn those Tops into a 2 turn clock with Mentor, something Nic Fit has had issues with in the past is just clocking your opponent once you have mana. I propose we try Mentor to help this issue.
I do realize it seems terrible on paper, but I think it is worth a try.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganfar
I played with Couser for a while and LOVED him with top. Couser is alright but two latest tourment I wanted to get my second Witness. So Couser had to leave and now I have Witness.
Nobody talks about Witness, I guess everyone agree that card should be in the deck?
I have a flip Nissa now and want to try it out myself, probabally need to take out a witness -_-
Or 61 cards...
Witness is a wonderful multi-tool. I don't think anyone plays without 1 in their maindecks.
I haven't tried Flissa yet. I'm not planning to either. I don't like the idea of banking on hitting 7 lands, but that's me.
I just preordered my Big Sorin & Tracker-guy. And a set of Prized Amalgams, but that's for another deck. I'm so looking forward to getting them, especially the Amalgams.
@Arianrhod: My LGS is so heavy on the GY hate I haven't seen Reanimator there in years (literally). We do have some Elves! and S&T pilots there though, so you absolutely have a point there.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I think this is my first time posting in the Nic Fit deck but I've been playing the deck for a while and took it to Channel Fireballs 3k event today.
My list
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Painful Truths
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
I believe we had 92 people today so 7 rounds of Swiss
R1: Shardless BUG 2-1
G1: My opponent leads on Delta into Visions suspend so I settle in for the long game. I manage to keep the board clean except for a strix but his Vision goes off and he rips liliana, hymn, abrupt decay, and goyf. GG.
G2: We trade resources and on the turn before I die and he's at 2, I know the top 2 are 2 lands, I top during upkeep to find the Green sun and Rhino him out.
G3: We trade resources, Chains was pretty beast. I have a rhino+ Dragonlord Dromoka vs his 7/8 goyf and he goes to race. I get him down to 2 and find another Green sun with top into Rhino.
R2: Doomsday 2-1
G1: I T1 DRS into T2 Painful truths into 3 lands while having paths and decay. I scoop to Doomsday+gitprobe
G2: I slaughter games his doomsday followed by a Teeg and when he kills the teeg, i recast slaughter games i had rebought with witness naming wish and he's dead. Also Therapy him into oblivion.
G3: I slaughter games his Burning Wish after therapying him into oblivion. he had no MB win condition GG.
R3: ANT 2-1
G1: I lose G1 fairly quickly to the typical ANT turn.
G2: Thoughtseize into therapy into pressure gets me there
G3: He miscounts after trying to go off T2 after i blind therapy hitting a Dark Ritual. I pressure and he dies.
R4: Food Chain 2-1
G1: I top into 4 GSZ into Sigarda+ 3Rhino while he has 4 Griffins on board.
G2: Griffin beats after slaughter games kills me
G3: I T3 Rhino into T4 Rhino into T5 Slaughter games
R5: Eldrazi 2-1 Win and In in a pair down
G1: double abrupt decay his chalices into path his smashers and therapy his TKS on T2. followed by Meren into DL Dromoka is good enough
G2: I keep a greedy 1 lander with 5 1 drops and get punished by a T1 chalice.
G3: I slam a T4 Glissa which buys me time for 2 Rhinos which i then Deluge the board leaving me with 2 rhinos and him with nothing but 2 Chalices and a Sphere.
R6: Miracles- 0-2. Can't double draw as its another pair down and theres waay too many 12 pointers to safely scoop it so i play.
G1: He had everything. JTMS with Force+counterspell backup
G2: 5 Rhinos cast arent enough. Moat is pretty good.
R7- Draw with Deathblade
Top 8- I'm 8th seed and I receive a Game loss for misregistering my deck. I go in blind and play vs Dredge. His dredges were awful and i manage to get an ooze down to get me there. I lose G3 to his nutter draw on the play.GG
Going forward, I'd move the Glissa to the board and play something else. Deck felt great and killing people with standard cards were the best.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Ironclad, that's a sweet tournament report! Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
I was going to try mentor at one point, but something stopped me and I can't remember what :/
You've thoroughly persuaded me to try him again. It looks like he fills a similar, though much more expensive role to SFM, except he kills quicker and as such is relevant against combo. Makes me want to play more DRS and more painful truths.
@Solonox, solid list and congrats on the top8, shame your penmanship let you down :P
@Funsucker, congrats too. I've experimented with Lingering souls, but after quickly going 0-5 in league with a test build, I abandoned them (I was running 3). How do you find the card?
